Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Kevin Funk wrote: > On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote: >> On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: >> > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus >> > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? >> >> +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in >> my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm >> especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's >> really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't >> know if it will die with wayland anyways. > > +1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively > maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;) There's a kf5 branch for kopete too. While I can't say it's seeing active development at the moment, it has been worked on quite extensively and looks near complete. For more : https://marc.info/?l=kopete-devel&m=147851133511821&w=2 > > @Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release! > >> I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those. > > Consider me in as well. +1 from me too. Cheers, Harish
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
Hi all, sorry for reading the mailing list very rarely nowadays. On 17.11.2016 10:25, Kevin Funk wrote: On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote: On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't know if it will die with wayland anyways. +1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;) @Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release! For my point of view, the framework branch should be as stable as the master regarding features. I recently only added minor stuff in master, and always merged that also into framework (same with some bugs). Further, the last porting TODOs happened a few weeks ago, about reviving icon markers in lists (if a call is part of a recursive call cycle). So yes, I can switch the frameworks branch to become master already today. Josef I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those. Consider me in as well. Cheers, Kevin Greetings, Sven
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote: > On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: > > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus > > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? > > +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in > my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm > especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's > really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't > know if it will die with wayland anyways. +1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;) @Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release! > I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those. Consider me in as well. Cheers, Kevin > Greetings, > Sven -- Kevin Funk | kf...@kde.org | http://kfunk.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? +1 actually. There are a few applications on that list which would, in my eyes, be a real loss if they were not maintained any more; I'm especially looking at kcachegrind (I know of no comparable tool and it's really good), maybe kopete. kmag is nice too on occasion but I don't know if it will die with wayland anyways. I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those. Greetings, Sven signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
El dimarts, 15 de novembre de 2016, a les 19:53:43 CET, Ben Cooksley va escriure: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck > > va > > > > escriure: > >> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: > >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > >> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last > >> >> release > >> >> we > >> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year > >> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list > >> >> below to KF5. > >> >> > >> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if > >> >> they > >> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 > >> >> they could move to "extreagear". > >> > >> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear > >> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? > >> > >> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported > >> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can > >> surrect it from there. > > > > I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are > > stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why > > we should not let them do the releases if they want to. > > > > But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained > > "extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :) > > From my perspective, i'd like to drop CI support for Qt 4 based code > as soon as possible. Keeping it alive requires a whole additional set > of jobs and associated infrastructure, for something which receives > little development attention (comparatively). > > Chances are we'll have to keep this support alive until Applications > 17.08 is released, at which point I think we should drop it > completely, even if Extragear projects continue to use KDE 4 / Qt 4 > based sources. Fair (unless someone from those KDE 4/Qt 4 projects steps up to provide the womanpower/hardwarepower/anypower needed to keep CI for those running). Cheers, Albert > > > Cheers, > > > > Albert > > Regards, > Ben
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va > escriure: >> On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: >> >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release >> >> we >> >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year >> >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list >> >> below to KF5. >> >> >> >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they >> >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 >> >> they could move to "extreagear". >> >> Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear >> applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? >> >> If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported >> applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can >> surrect it from there. > > I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are > stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why we > should not let them do the releases if they want to. > > But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained > "extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :) >From my perspective, i'd like to drop CI support for Qt 4 based code as soon as possible. Keeping it alive requires a whole additional set of jobs and associated infrastructure, for something which receives little development attention (comparatively). Chances are we'll have to keep this support alive until Applications 17.08 is released, at which point I think we should drop it completely, even if Extragear projects continue to use KDE 4 / Qt 4 based sources. > > Cheers, > Albert Regards, Ben
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va escriure: > On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release > >> we > >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year > >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list > >> below to KF5. > >> > >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they > >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 > >> they could move to "extreagear". > > Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear > applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? > > If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported > applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can > surrect it from there. I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why we should not let them do the releases if they want to. But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained "extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :) Cheers, Albert
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va escriure: > But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the > port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the > original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the > regressions pile up. Does the person that did the port know of those regressions? Maybe the bugs were ill-ly assigned to the orgininal maintainer instead of a mailing list and its hard for that person to see new bugs coming in. Cheers, Albert > > > Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join > > such an event. > > See above.
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 16:45:25 CET, Dominik Haumann va escriure: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release > > we > > accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until > > KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to > > KF5. > > > > The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they > > have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 > > they could move to "extreagear". > > > > I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember > > there's > > people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. > > > > Comments? > > I think this is a very good idea and support this. > > However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there > are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I > *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is > for the following reason: > > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? I would be all for it, seems like a good a live meeting seems like a good forum to share/fix hurdles that may be common to lots of projects. This needs someone to organize such a sprint though ;) Cheers, Albert > > I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported, > still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many > more. > > Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps, > instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we > can. > > Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join > such an event. > > Greetings > Dominik
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
Christoph Feck wrote: > Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear > applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? > > If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported > applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can > surrect it from there. Even if you stop releasing the kdelibs, distros will keep releasing them for much longer, some for a lot longer. (E.g., we still also ship kdelibs3 in Fedora and I have no plans to let it go.) Kevin Kofler
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On Friday, 11 November 2016 18:24:42 CET Christoph Feck wrote: > On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > >> Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release > >> we > >> accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year > >> until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list > >> below to KF5. > >> > >> The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they > >> have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 > >> they could move to "extreagear". > > Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear > applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? > > If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported > applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can > surrect it from there. I don't see a direct connection. This discussion is about KDE Applications, and while I totally agree on having extragear applications ported as well as soon as possible and we should try to see which active applications are still unported, forcing them from not being released is a bit too much (i.e. they could release bugfixes for kdelibs4 versions, for example). > > >> I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember > >> there's > >> people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. > >> > >> Comments? > > > > I think this is a very good idea and support this. > > > > However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there > > are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I > > *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is > > for the following reason: > > > > What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus > > on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? > > If we had developers with free time for other projects, that time would > be better spent on helping projects such as KDEPIM, rekonq, or Calligra. > These are applications several of our users would switch to if they worked. That would be a huge help. > > > I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported, > > still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many > > more. > > As far as I know, Kile developer had to wait for the KF5 release of Okular. That's what I knew as well. > > > Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps, > > instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we > > can. > > But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the > port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the > original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the > regressions pile up. Yes, afaik one of the reasons why it was not packaged in Debian yet (regressions). -- Luigi
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote: On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5. The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could move to "extreagear". Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12? If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can surrect it from there. I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. Comments? I think this is a very good idea and support this. However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is for the following reason: What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? If we had developers with free time for other projects, that time would be better spent on helping projects such as KDEPIM, rekonq, or Calligra. These are applications several of our users would switch to if they worked. I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported, still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many more. As far as I know, Kile developer had to wait for the KF5 release of Okular. Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps, instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we can. But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the regressions pile up. Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join such an event. See above. -- Christoph Feck https://kdepepo.wordpress.com/ KDE Quality Team
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: > Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we > accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE > Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5. > > The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have > an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could > move to "extreagear". > > I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's > people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. > > Comments? I think this is a very good idea and support this. However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I *know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is for the following reason: What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense? I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported, still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many more. Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps, instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we can. Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join such an event. Greetings Dominik
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016, 23:42:36 CET Albert Astals Cid a écrit : > Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we > accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until > KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5. > > The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they > have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they > could move to "extreagear". > > I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's > people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. > > Comments? > > Cheers, > Albert > There is a framework branch for theses games: > kgoldrunner > kigo > kolf > konquest > kreversi > ksnakeduel > kspaceduel > ksudoku > kubrick > lskat > palapeli But nobody merged or finished porting. I made first step but for sure I didn't have time to finish it. +1 remove them in 17.12 if nobody finishs porting. -- Laurent Montel | laurent.mon...@kdab.com | KDE/Qt Senior Software Engineer KDAB (France) S.A.S., a KDAB Group company Tel. France +33 (0)4 90 84 08 53, www.kdab.fr KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts - Platform-independent software solutions
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
Il giorno Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:42:36 +0100 Albert Astals Cid ha scritto: > Comments? +1 from me, seems like a good idea. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team GPG key ID: A29D259B pgp8PgrKPav7L.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP
Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12
El dijous, 10 de novembre de 2016, a les 23:42:36 CET, Albert Astals Cid va escriure: > Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we > accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until > KDE Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5. > > The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they > have an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they > could move to "extreagear". > > I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's > people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good. > > Comments? > > Cheers, > Albert > > > > jovie > juk > kaccessible > kajongg > kcachegrind > kde-dev-utils > kdesdk-kioslaves > kget > kgoldrunner > kigo > kmag > kmix (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase) > kmousetool > kmouth > kolf > konquest > kopete > kppp > kremotecontrol > kreversi > ksaneplugin > kscd > ksirk > ksnakeduel > kspaceduel > ksudoku > kubrick > kuser > lskat > palapeli > sweeper > umbrello (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase) > zeroconf-ioslave And the 4 kdewebdev apps