Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
There was a lot of talk about how certain fonts look good or bad in certain writing systems. Maybe I'm missing something, but were there any actual comments from people sort of representing those (non-Latin-based) writing systems? -Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 22/02/2023 09:20, Mike Saunders wrote: On 21.02.23 18:36, toki wrote: Have branding guidelines for each writing system. That sounds like the best option, with Noto Sans as a fallback that should work in most cases. I was referring to the entire NoTo family, not Noto Sans in specific. By way of example, if there isn't a designated font for content written in, for example, Cherokee, then use NotoSansCherokee-Regular.ttf. That leaves content written in the hundred or so writing systems that NoTo doesn't cover, without a specific font. We can cross that bridge when, we get to it. (My guess is that we'll see a team creating dictionaries, and related tools, before a font for LibO branding is needed.) jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Hi Jonathon, everyone, On 21.02.23 18:36, toki wrote: Not at all, and clearly Vegur is lacking. Let's find a font that works is many more scripts, and adapt the flyers accordingly... Have branding guidelines for each writing system. That sounds like the best option, with Noto Sans as a fallback that should work in most cases. Apologies if it looked like we were "forcing" Vegur on anyone -- we've learned a lesson from that! Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Mike Saunders schreef op 21.02.2023 08:48: Hi Cristian, everyone, On 20.02.23 22:39, Cristian Secară wrote: Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font ? A quick look at the embedded character set shows that this font lacks support for Czech, Polish, Hungarian and Romanian alphabets (this for Latin based scripts); it also lacks support for Greek, it also lacks support for Cyrillic. Not a word about Asian or Arabic scripts. The choice of Vegur as the branding font for LibreOffice goes back many years, back to the start (2010) I believe. You make a good point, if it's missing many characters for many languages, and we should fix that. Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). Thanks for the suggestion -- do you have a specific font in mind? Why not choose Liberation Sans like in the Guides? Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages "... have digital content created years ago and stored in old, outdated and proprietary document formats." ? Not at all, and clearly Vegur is lacking. Let's find a font that works is many more scripts, and adapt the flyers accordingly... Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 21/02/2023 18:44, Cristian Secară wrote: I forgot this: what is the point in keeping something aesthetically pleasing, but restricted to 'Western' Latin languages only ? Depending upon how one counts, between half and two thirds of the languages in current use, that have been reduced to a writing system, use the Latin Writing System. Rephrasing, roughly 1500 languages spoken today, use the Latin writing system. Number two would be Cyrillic, which covers between 10% and 25% of the languages in current use, that have been reduced to a writing system. In third place, it is a toss-up between CJKV and Arabic writing system. In terms of number of speakers of languages that have been reduced to a writing system, the order is: * Latin writing system; * CJKV; * Arabic writing system; * Cyrillic writing system; * Indus Valley writing systems; # Technically, CJKV is ten different writing systems. For selecting fonts, treating them as the same writing system greatly simplifies the process. >even then: year 2010 is somewhat more recent than Stone Age Unicode 6.0 was released in October 2010. It covered 93 writing systems, with just under 100,000 glyphs. Pan-unicode font development is still trying to catch up with that standard. Unicode 15.0 was released in September 2022. It covers 161 writing systems, with just shy of 150,000 glyphs. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 2/21/23 1:33 PM, Cristian Secară wrote: În data de Tue, 21 Feb 2023 17:25:56 +, toki a scris: Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). Right, but – at least at first glance – their license looks permisive enough [1]. One should check this on the specific font of interest, though. SIL's Gentium font is already distributed with LibreOffice. If the preference is a non-serif font, then SIL's Andika font might be appropriate. They like to use that one for primary education readers, so I expect it has very good coverage. Justin -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
În data de Tue, 21 Feb 2023 17:25:56 +, toki a scris: > > Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive > > (and font quality is awesome). > > There is this little thing known as license incompatibility. Not all > of the fonts that SIL distributes use the SIL Open Font License. Right, but – at least at first glance – their license looks permisive enough [1]. One should check this on the specific font of interest, though. Anyway, my suggestion with SIL was in the form of 'example'. If other places like this exists, the better. I tend to avoid Google fonts and so I don't know much of their novelties, but maybe things aren't that bad there either :) Cristi [1] https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi=OFL-FAQ_web -- Cristian Secară https://www.secarica.ro -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 21/02/2023 07:48, Mike Saunders wrote: Not at all, and clearly Vegur is lacking. Let's find a font that works is many more scripts, and adapt the flyers accordingly... Have branding guidelines for each writing system. Each writing system has its own specific font family, with an ugly fall back font family - probably NoTo, simply because it covers more Unicode defined writing systems than any other pan-Unicode font family. There are no pan-unicode font families that look good in every writing system. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
On 20/02/2023 21:39, Cristian Secară wrote: Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font? Back when Vegar was chosen, the intersection of FLOSS license, and pan-unicode fonts was aesthetically displeasing for every writing system in use. The situation today is aesthetically displeasing in all but one writing system. Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). There is this little thing known as license incompatibility. Not all of the fonts that SIL distributes use the SIL Open Font License. Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages " The options are: * An attractive font that works for one writing system only; * A font that is ugly for every writing system out there; * A plethora of fonts whose only element in common is that each font is attractive for a specific writing system; If you are aware of a font that is as aesthetically pleasing in Miami, as it is in Naxi, and uses a FLOSS license, a plethora of designers want to know about it. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Hi Cristian, everyone, On 20.02.23 22:39, Cristian Secară wrote: Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font ? A quick look at the embedded character set shows that this font lacks support for Czech, Polish, Hungarian and Romanian alphabets (this for Latin based scripts); it also lacks support for Greek, it also lacks support for Cyrillic. Not a word about Asian or Arabic scripts. The choice of Vegur as the branding font for LibreOffice goes back many years, back to the start (2010) I believe. You make a good point, if it's missing many characters for many languages, and we should fix that. Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). Thanks for the suggestion -- do you have a specific font in mind? Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages "... have digital content created years ago and stored in old, outdated and proprietary document formats." ? Not at all, and clearly Vegur is lacking. Let's find a font that works is many more scripts, and adapt the flyers accordingly... Cheers, Mike -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Mr Barrientos, I am really fed up by your repeated mentions of TDF Marketing team based only on your personal opinions and not on facts. In this case, you mention us in a negative way completely out of context, and is not the first time that this happens. From your words, it looks like TDF Marketing team is responsible for all negative things which happen at TDF. Sorry, but this repeated bashing of other people's activities is not respectful and doesn't belong to the community spirit. I am copying TDF BoD, TDF Membership Committee and TDF Team, as I am totally fed up by your attitude. I hope they will ask you to maintain a more respectful attitude, especially if your statements are not based on any kind of evidence. On 20/02/23 23:53, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: years ago I wrote about Vegur not being appropriate for Slavic (and Slovenian) language, but nothing changes within the TDF and design team of LO, as long as it looks nice in English and German ... More like the TDF’s Marketing team. But, to their credit, at least they are not asking us to pirate proprietary fonts, as some developer who shall remain unnamed asked me to do years ago to take my translation of a flyer... From the Design team we proposed Murecho, which has quite an extensive character coverage. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Branding#Typography -- Italo Vignoli - it...@vignoli.org mobile/signal +39.348.5653829 - skype italovignoli hangout/jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
> > years ago I wrote about Vegur not being appropriate for Slavic (and > Slovenian) language, but nothing changes within the TDF and design team of > LO, as long as it looks nice in English and German ... > More like the TDF’s Marketing team. But, to their credit, at least they are not asking us to pirate proprietary fonts, as some developer who shall remain unnamed asked me to do years ago to take my translation of a flyer... From the Design team we proposed Murecho, which has quite an extensive character coverage. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Branding#Typography -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Thanks, Cristian, years ago I wrote about Vegur not being appropriate for Slavic (and Slovenian) language, but nothing changes within the TDF and design team of LO, as long as it looks nice in English and German ... Lp, m. V V pon., 20. feb. 2023 ob 22:46 je oseba Cristian Secară napisala: > În data de Mon, 20 Feb 2023 14:14:17 +0100, Mike Saunders a scris: > > > At FOSDEM earlier this month, we handed out flyers about the Document > > Liberation Project, and here's the file for translations: > > > > > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DLP_Document_Liberation_flyer.odg > > > > The font "Vegur" is required. [...] > > What is the target part of the world for the flyer ? Possibly the same > question for the sister project ? > > Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font ? A > quick look at the embedded character set shows that this font lacks support > for Czech, Polish, Hungarian and Romanian alphabets (this for Latin based > scripts); it also lacks support for Greek, it also lacks support for > Cyrillic. Not a word about Asian or Arabic scripts. > > Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and > font quality is awesome). > > Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages > "... have digital content created years ago and stored in old, outdated and > proprietary document formats." ? > > Cristi > > -- > Cristian Secară > https://www.secarica.ro > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
În data de Mon, 20 Feb 2023 14:14:17 +0100, Mike Saunders a scris: > At FOSDEM earlier this month, we handed out flyers about the Document > Liberation Project, and here's the file for translations: > > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DLP_Document_Liberation_flyer.odg > > The font "Vegur" is required. [...] What is the target part of the world for the flyer ? Possibly the same question for the sister project ? Has anyone thought about i18n issues at the time of choosing this font ? A quick look at the embedded character set shows that this font lacks support for Czech, Polish, Hungarian and Romanian alphabets (this for Latin based scripts); it also lacks support for Greek, it also lacks support for Cyrillic. Not a word about Asian or Arabic scripts. Why not choose from SIL fonts ? Their i18n support is comprehensive (and font quality is awesome). Or, perhaps the sister project considers that only 'Western' languages "... have digital content created years ago and stored in old, outdated and proprietary document formats." ? Cristi -- Cristian Secară https://www.secarica.ro -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-l10n] Document Liberation Project flyer for translations
Hi everyone, As you probably know, https://www.documentliberation.org is a sister project to LibreOffice, focusing on software libraries to open files in proprietary formats. At FOSDEM earlier this month, we handed out flyers about the Document Liberation Project, and here's the file for translations: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DLP_Document_Liberation_flyer.odg The font "Vegur" is required. If anyone makes a translation of the .odg file, just send it to me (or upload to the wiki and let me know). We already have two translations, thanks to the community in Argentina: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DLP_Document_Liberation_flyer_ES.odg https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DLP_Document_Liberation_flyer_ES_ar.odg -- Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
