Re: French Horn - transposing

[Paul Scott]

On 3/8/24 4:46 PM, TJ Kolev wrote:

Greetings!

So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high). 
Copying the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now 
I hit a wall. The music piece is written for french horns in E flat 
pitch. But the band's horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the 
score appropriately. The band director expects staff with three flats 
(E flat major). I hope there's some easier way to do this than me 
manually re-writing the score. And I am not even sure how to do that. 
I would appreciate any help.


I've played piano, so I can read notes. But these crazy pitched brass 
instruments are an intimidating concept... :-/


Below is the initial part of the score for the E flat french horn. 
Seems rather big for a small example, but I'd rather have a bit more 
context.


Thank you!
TJ Kolev :)

==

\version "2.24.0"

trl = \tuplet 3/2 \etc

rpt = #(define-music-function (cnt snip) (integer? ly:music?)
  #{
    { \repeat unfold $cnt $snip }
  #}
)

frhornInIIA = {
  \sectionLabel "Intro"
  \key f \major
  | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] 
| d8 r r4 \break


  \sectionLabel "Part A"
  \repeat volta 2 {
    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | a'>2:8^"" \break

    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | a'>2:8^"" \break

    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | a'>2:8^"" \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8 
4.:8 \break
    | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ 
r ]

  }
  \alternative {
    {  r r4 \break }
    { 8 r 4 }
  }
} % A part


frhornIIInIVA = {
  \sectionLabel "Intro"
  \key f \major
  | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] 
| d8 r r4 \break


  \sectionLabel "Part A"
  \repeat volta 2 {
    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | a,>2:8^"" \break

    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | a,>2:8^"" \break

    | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | a,>2:8^"" \break
    | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8 
4.:8 \break

    | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ]
  }
  \alternative {
    {  r r4 \break }
    { 8 r 4 }
  }
} % A part


frhornInIINotes = {
  \time 2/4
  \relative c' {
    \frhornInIIA %{
    \frhornInIIB
    \frhornInIIC
    \frhornInIID
    \frhornInIIE
    \frhornInIIF %}
  }
}


frhornIIInIVNotes = {
  \time 2/4
  \relative c' {
    \frhornIIInIVA %{
    \frhornIIInIVB
    \frhornIIInIVC
    \frhornIIInIVD
    \frhornIIInIVE
    \frhornIIInIVF %}
  }
}

sgFrenchHorn = \new StaffGroup <<
  \new Staff \with {
    instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} 
\line {"I & II"} } }
    shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} 
\line {"I,II"} } }

  }
  \frhornInIINotes

  \new Staff \with {
    instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} 
\line {"III & IV"} } }
    shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} 
\line {"III,IV"} } }

  }
  \frhornIIInIVNotes
>>

\score {
  \sgFrenchHorn
}


My go to is \quoteDuring:

%{ Transposing Eb horn music %}

\version "2.25.13"

\include "english.ly"

EfHornNotes = \fixed c' { % or \relative or \absolute

  \set Score.quotedCueEventTypes = #'(
    note-event rest-event tie-event beam-event tuplet-span-event
    `dynamic-event slur-event articulation-event span-dynamic-event
  )

  \transposition ef
  \time 2/4
  a4( b) c( d) e( f g2)
}
\addQuote qef \EfHornNotes

FHornNotes = \fixed c' {
  \transposition f
  \time 2/4
  \quoteDuring qef s2*4
}

\score{ \new Staff \new Voice \FHornNotes }

HTH,

Paul

Re: French Horn - transposing

[Flaming Hakama by Elaine]

>
> From: TJ Kolev 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 17:46:35 -0600
> Subject: French Horn - transposing
> Greetings!
>
> So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high).
> Copying the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now I hit
> a wall. The music piece is written for french horns in E flat pitch. But
> the band's horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the score
> appropriately. The band director expects staff with three flats (E flat
> major). I hope there's some easier way to do this than me manually
> re-writing the score. And I am not even sure how to do that. I would
> appreciate any help.
>
> I've played piano, so I can read notes. But these crazy pitched brass
> instruments are an intimidating concept... :-/
>
> Below is the initial part of the score for the E flat french horn. Seems
> rather big for a small example, but I'd rather have a bit more context.
>
> Thank you!
> TJ Kolev :)
>
> ==
>
> \version "2.24.0"
>
> trl = \tuplet 3/2 \etc
>
> rpt = #(define-music-function (cnt snip) (integer? ly:music?)
>   #{
> { \repeat unfold $cnt $snip }
>   #}
> )
>
> frhornInIIA = {
>   \sectionLabel "Intro"
>   \key f \major
>   | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] |
> d8 r r4 \break
>
>   \sectionLabel "Part A"
>   \repeat volta 2 {
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 |  a'>2:8^"" \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 |  a'>2:8^"" \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 |  a'>2:8^"" \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8  bes'>4.:8 \break
> | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r
> ]
>   }
>   \alternative {
> {  r r4 \break }
> { 8 r 4 }
>   }
> } % A part
>
>
> frhornIIInIVA = {
>   \sectionLabel "Intro"
>   \key f \major
>   | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] |
> d8 r r4 \break
>
>   \sectionLabel "Part A"
>   \repeat volta 2 {
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 |  a,>2:8^"" \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | 2:8^""
> \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 |  a,>2:8^"" \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8  bes,>4.:8 \break
> | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ]
>   }
>   \alternative {
> {  r r4 \break }
> { 8 r 4 }
>   }
> } % A part
>
>
> frhornInIINotes = {
>   \time 2/4
>   \relative c' {
> \frhornInIIA %{
> \frhornInIIB
> \frhornInIIC
> \frhornInIID
> \frhornInIIE
> \frhornInIIF %}
>   }
> }
>
>
> frhornIIInIVNotes = {
>   \time 2/4
>   \relative c' {
> \frhornIIInIVA %{
> \frhornIIInIVB
> \frhornIIInIVC
> \frhornIIInIVD
> \frhornIIInIVE
> \frhornIIInIVF %}
>   }
> }
>
> sgFrenchHorn = \new StaffGroup <<
>   \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line
> {"I & II"} } }
> shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
> {"I,II"} } }
>   }
>   \frhornInIINotes
>
>   \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line
> {"III & IV"} } }
> shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
> {"III,IV"} } }
>   }
>   \frhornIIInIVNotes
> >>
>
> \score {
>   \sgFrenchHorn
> }
>
>
%{

First an attempt to try to clarify the problem:

Writing for an Eb instrument means you write a C when you want to hear an
Eb.
That's the definition of how pitched instruments are named:  when the
instrument plays a written C, the sounding note is the name of the
instrument.
A Bb trumpet playing a written C sounds like a Bb.
A horn in F playing a written C sounds like an F.
An alto flute in G playing a written C sounds like a G.
A horn in Eb playing a written C sounds like an Eb.

So, assuming that is what this existing part for Eb horn is, when the part
writes a C, the sounding pitch is an Eb.

The note you would write for an instrument in F to play a sounding Eb is
the note a 5th above Eb, or Bb.

This means that a written C in the original part for Eb horn would be
written for horn in F as a Bb.

So, everything goes down a whole step, including the key signature, from F
to Eb, or one flat to three flats.

In your case, it is easiest  to just transpose the entire staffgroup

%}

sgFrenchHorn = \new StaffGroup \transpose f ees <<
  \new Staff \with {
instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn F} \line {"I &
II"} } }
shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
{"I,II"} } }
  }
  \frhornInIINotes

  \new Staff \with {
instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn F} \line {"III
& IV"} } }
shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
{"III,IV"} } }
  

Re: French Horn - transposing

[Jeff Kopmanis]

I use the transpose function just before rendering stuff.  Here's a typical
file that should demonstrate what I do.  The \book sections at the bottom
are where the transpose is done, while the Melody variable contains the
music.  If I have chords, I'll use the \transpose function in the same way.


 EverydayPeople-Ab.ly



On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 7:24 PM Knute Snortum  wrote:

>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 3:49 PM TJ Kolev  wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high).
>> Copying the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now I hit
>> a wall. The music piece is written for french horns in E flat pitch. But
>> the band's horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the score
>> appropriately. The band director expects staff with three flats (E flat
>> major). I hope there's some easier way to do this than me manually
>> re-writing the score. And I am not even sure how to do that. I would
>> appreciate any help.
>>
>
> I've never used it myself, but there is a whole section on transposing
> music in the manual:
>
>
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/displaying-pitches#instrument-transpositions
>
>
> --
> Knute Snortum
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Jeff Kopmanis*
Medium: https://kopmanis.medium.com
GLAAC: https://www.glaac.org/
University Lowbrow Astronomers: http://umich.edu/~lowbrows
Orange Can Astronomy: https://www.facebook.com/orangecanastronomy/

** Go Green and leave this email on the Screen! **

Re: French Horn - transposing

[Kevin Pye]

I'm a little confused as to what you want. If the band's horns are in F pitch, 
why do you want the score in E♭?

But anyway, to transpose from F to E♭, modify the lines which use your 
variables to

\transpose F ees \frhornInIINotes

and
   \transpose F ees \frhornIIInIVNotes

There is also \transposition, but I don't think that's what you want in this 
case.

Kevin.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2024, at 10:46, TJ Kolev wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high). Copying 
> the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now I hit a wall. 
> The music piece is written for french horns in E flat pitch. But the band's 
> horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the score appropriately. The band 
> director expects staff with three flats (E flat major). I hope there's some 
> easier way to do this than me manually re-writing the score. And I am not 
> even sure how to do that. I would appreciate any help.
> 
> I've played piano, so I can read notes. But these crazy pitched brass 
> instruments are an intimidating concept... :-/
> 
> Below is the initial part of the score for the E flat french horn. Seems 
> rather big for a small example, but I'd rather have a bit more context.
> 
> Thank you!
> TJ Kolev :)
> 
> ==
> 
> \version "2.24.0"
> 
> trl = \tuplet 3/2 \etc
> 
> rpt = #(define-music-function (cnt snip) (integer? ly:music?)
>   #{
> { \repeat unfold $cnt $snip }
>   #}
> )
> 
> frhornInIIA = {
>   \sectionLabel "Intro"
>   \key f \major
>   | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] | d8 r 
> r4 \break
> 
>   \sectionLabel "Part A"
>   \repeat volta 2 {
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8  bes'>4.:8 \break
> | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r  a'>]
>   }
>   \alternative {
> {  r r4 \break }
> { 8 r 4 }
>   }
> } % A part
> 
> 
> frhornIIInIVA = {
>   \sectionLabel "Intro"
>   \key f \major
>   | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] | d8 r 
> r4 \break
> 
>   \sectionLabel "Part A"
>   \repeat volta 2 {
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^"" 
> \break
> | \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8  bes,>4.:8 \break
> | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ]
>   }
>   \alternative {
> {  r r4 \break }
> { 8 r 4 }
>   }
> } % A part
> 
> 
> frhornInIINotes = {
>   \time 2/4
>   \relative c' {
> \frhornInIIA %{
> \frhornInIIB
> \frhornInIIC
> \frhornInIID
> \frhornInIIE
> \frhornInIIF %}
>   }
> }
> 
> 
> frhornIIInIVNotes = {
>   \time 2/4
>   \relative c' {
> \frhornIIInIVA %{
> \frhornIIInIVB
> \frhornIIInIVC
> \frhornIIInIVD
> \frhornIIInIVE
> \frhornIIInIVF %}
>   }
> }
> 
> sgFrenchHorn = \new StaffGroup <<
>   \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line 
> {"I & II"} } }
> shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line 
> {"I,II"} } }
>   }
>   \frhornInIINotes
> 
>   \new Staff \with {
> instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line 
> {"III & IV"} } }
> shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line 
> {"III,IV"} } }
>   }
>   \frhornIIInIVNotes
> >>
> 
> \score {
>   \sgFrenchHorn
> }
> 

Re: French Horn - transposing

[Knute Snortum]

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 3:49 PM TJ Kolev  wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high).
> Copying the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now I hit
> a wall. The music piece is written for french horns in E flat pitch. But
> the band's horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the score
> appropriately. The band director expects staff with three flats (E flat
> major). I hope there's some easier way to do this than me manually
> re-writing the score. And I am not even sure how to do that. I would
> appreciate any help.
>

I've never used it myself, but there is a whole section on transposing
music in the manual:

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/displaying-pitches#instrument-transpositions


--
Knute Snortum

French Horn - transposing

[TJ Kolev]

Greetings!

So I've been notating a piece for my son's school band (junior high).
Copying the music from paper into LilyPond using Frescobaldi. And now I hit
a wall. The music piece is written for french horns in E flat pitch. But
the band's horns are in F pitch. I need to transpose the score
appropriately. The band director expects staff with three flats (E flat
major). I hope there's some easier way to do this than me manually
re-writing the score. And I am not even sure how to do that. I would
appreciate any help.

I've played piano, so I can read notes. But these crazy pitched brass
instruments are an intimidating concept... :-/

Below is the initial part of the score for the E flat french horn. Seems
rather big for a small example, but I'd rather have a bit more context.

Thank you!
TJ Kolev :)

==

\version "2.24.0"

trl = \tuplet 3/2 \etc

rpt = #(define-music-function (cnt snip) (integer? ly:music?)
  #{
{ \repeat unfold $cnt $snip }
  #}
)

frhornInIIA = {
  \sectionLabel "Intro"
  \key f \major
  | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] | d8
r r4 \break

  \sectionLabel "Part A"
  \repeat volta 2 {
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^""
\break
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | 2:8^"" \break
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^""
\break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8 4.:8 \break
| r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r
]
  }
  \alternative {
{  r r4 \break }
{ 8 r 4 }
  }
} % A part


frhornIIInIVA = {
  \sectionLabel "Intro"
  \key f \major
  | \trl {a'8( bes a)} g r | \trl {g( a g)} f[ r16 e] | g8 r f[ r16 e] | d8
r r4 \break

  \sectionLabel "Part A"
  \repeat volta 2 {
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^""
\break
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] }  | r8 4.:8 | 2:8^""
\break
| \rpt 4 { r8 [ r ] } \break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r 4.:8 | 2:8^""
\break
| \rpt 2 { r8 [ r ] } | r8 [ r ] | r8 4.:8 \break
| r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ] | r8 [ r ]
  }
  \alternative {
{  r r4 \break }
{ 8 r 4 }
  }
} % A part


frhornInIINotes = {
  \time 2/4
  \relative c' {
\frhornInIIA %{
\frhornInIIB
\frhornInIIC
\frhornInIID
\frhornInIIE
\frhornInIIF %}
  }
}


frhornIIInIVNotes = {
  \time 2/4
  \relative c' {
\frhornIIInIVA %{
\frhornIIInIVB
\frhornIIInIVC
\frhornIIInIVD
\frhornIIInIVE
\frhornIIInIVF %}
  }
}

sgFrenchHorn = \new StaffGroup <<
  \new Staff \with {
instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line
{"I & II"} } }
shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
{"I,II"} } }
  }
  \frhornInIINotes

  \new Staff \with {
instrumentName = \markup { \column { \line { French Horn E\flat} \line
{"III & IV"} } }
shortInstrumentName = \markup \teeny { \column { \line {"fhorn"} \line
{"III,IV"} } }
  }
  \frhornIIInIVNotes
>>

\score {
  \sgFrenchHorn
}

Repeat D.S. al fine, but the Fine is in a nested volta

[Knute Snortum]

I'm trying to get a Fine on the first ending of a repeat volta nested in a
repeat segno.  An MWE will probably be clearer:

\version "2.24.3"

music = \relative {
  \time 3/4
  \partial 4 c''4 |
  c c c |
  \repeat segno 2 {
\bar "||"
d d d |
e e
\repeat volta 2 {
  e |
  f f f |
  \alternative {
\volta 1 { g g } % I need the Fine here...
\volta 2 { a a a | }
  }
}
\volta 2 \fine % ... not here
\volta 1 {
  f f f |
  g g g |
  \bar "|."
}
  }
}

\new Staff \music
\new Staff \unfoldRepeats \music

I am new to the repeat segno syntax, so I'm hoping I just haven't found the
right magic.  I'd like the MIDI to be correct -- I can always fake a "Fine"
if I need to.

--
Knute Snortum

Re: Best way to center beam between upper/lower staff?

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said Aaron Hill on Thu, 07 Mar 2024 23:58:21 -0800:

> Is `\autoChange` [1] what you were looking for?

Well, I had looked at \autoChange but  it seems to add extra staves when
used with multiple  voices. I had also looked  at Beam.auto-knee-gap and
it didn't seem to make any difference either. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I think I'll  just stick to using  a variable as Werner  suggests (I was
already doing that but wondered if I was missing some obvious feature).

Thanks,

Andy

Re: Best way to center beam between upper/lower staff?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I'm trying to have some notes cross from the lower staff to the
> upper staff but want the beam to automatically center.  In my
> example this is accomplished in measure 3 with much manual work.  Is
> there a better way?

No, there isn't – in general, how shall LilyPond know which note
belongs to which staff?  However, you can define shortcuts to reduce
typing, for example

```
U = \change Staff = "up"
D = \change Staff = "down"

{
  ...
  r8 a \U c \D a \U d ...
}
```

[Of course, our Scheme wizards may produce a solution to automatically
 split notes between the upper and lower staff depending on a pitch
 threshold; this might be nice for simple cases.]


Werner