Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Michael, On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 9:53 AM Michael Schmitz wrote: > OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll Thanks a lot! > have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is > whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be > recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a SATA-SCSI > bridge to test this properly on). Sparse file and loopback mounting with losetup --partscan? > Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if > >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing > > the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which > > I still have in my apartment. > > > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless > > someone else does. Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- ge...@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Michael, On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 9:53 AM Michael Schmitz wrote: > OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll Thanks a lot! > have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is > whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be > recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a SATA-SCSI > bridge to test this properly on). Sparse file and loopback mounting with losetup --partscan? > Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if > >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing > > the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which > > I still have in my apartment. > > > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless > > someone else does. Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- ge...@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Michael. Michael Schmitz - 25.06.18, 09:53: > OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll > have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is > whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be > recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a > SATA-SCSI bridge to test this properly on). Thank you very much. I believe the testing I did is still valid. Feel free to include any parts of the description of the test I made back then into your patch description as you see it as relevant for it. Also feel free to include my Tested-By: (probably with a hint the test was in 2012). I am not sure I am ready to permanently let go of (some of) the hardware I still have collected, but at some time I may. I do have SATA-SCSI bridges. That A4000T I have here probably could be a nice Debian m68k build host. Thanks, Martin > > Cheers, > > Michael > > Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > > Hi. > > > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so > >> if > >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > > > > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself > > preparing the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep > > which I still have in my apartment. > > > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, > > unless someone else does. > > > > Thanks. > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-m68k" > in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Michael. Michael Schmitz - 25.06.18, 09:53: > OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll > have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is > whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be > recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a > SATA-SCSI bridge to test this properly on). Thank you very much. I believe the testing I did is still valid. Feel free to include any parts of the description of the test I made back then into your patch description as you see it as relevant for it. Also feel free to include my Tested-By: (probably with a hint the test was in 2012). I am not sure I am ready to permanently let go of (some of) the hardware I still have collected, but at some time I may. I do have SATA-SCSI bridges. That A4000T I have here probably could be a nice Debian m68k build host. Thanks, Martin > > Cheers, > > Michael > > Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > > Hi. > > > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so > >> if > >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > > > > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself > > preparing the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep > > which I still have in my apartment. > > > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, > > unless someone else does. > > > > Thanks. > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-m68k" > in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Martin, OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a SATA-SCSI bridge to test this properly on). Cheers, Michael Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > Hi. > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing > the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which > I still have in my apartment. > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless > someone else does. > > Thanks.
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Martin, OK, I'll prepare a patch and submit it to linux-block for review. I'll have to refer to your testing back in 2012 since all I can test is whether the patch still allows partition tables on small disks to be recognized at this time (unless Adrian has a 2 TB disk and a SATA-SCSI bridge to test this properly on). Cheers, Michael Am 24.06.18 um 21:06 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > Hi. > > Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: >> test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 >> indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if >> Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? > Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: > > I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing > the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. > > I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which > I still have in my apartment. > > So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless > someone else does. > > Thanks.
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi. Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if > Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which I still have in my apartment. So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless someone else does. Thanks. -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi. Michael Schmitz - 27.04.18, 04:11: > test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 > indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if > Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? Ok, better be honest than having anyone waiting for it: I do not care enough about this, in order to motivate myself preparing the a patch from Joanne Dow´s fix. I am not even using my Amiga boxes anymore, not even the Sam440ep which I still have in my apartment. So RDB support in Linux it remains broken for disks larger 2 TB, unless someone else does. Thanks. -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Geert Uytterhoeven - 26.04.18, 13:08: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwald > >wrote: > > You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping > > dragons > > > > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on > > how to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe > > about patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger > > harddisks issue which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a > > patch exists that to my testing back then solves the issue. […] > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should > be fixed. > If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's > still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). What I ran into was *not* a limitation in the RDB format, but a bug in the Linux implementation on it. After Joanne Dow´s change the 2 TB disk was detected and handled properly by Linux. Also AmigaOS 4.x handles those disks just well and I think also AmigaOS 3.1/3.5/3.9 supported them, but I am not sure on the details on that, it has been a long time since I last booted one of my Amiga systems. Many classic Amiga users may not deal with such large disks, but AmigaOS 4 users probably still, and some of them may run Linux on their PowerPC motherboards as well. So I think the issue is worth fixing and am looking into submitting the fix, which looks pretty straight-forward to me upstream unless someone bets me to it. Thanks, -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Geert Uytterhoeven - 26.04.18, 13:08: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwald > > wrote: > > You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping > > dragons > > > > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on > > how to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe > > about patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger > > harddisks issue which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a > > patch exists that to my testing back then solves the issue. […] > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should > be fixed. > If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's > still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). What I ran into was *not* a limitation in the RDB format, but a bug in the Linux implementation on it. After Joanne Dow´s change the 2 TB disk was detected and handled properly by Linux. Also AmigaOS 4.x handles those disks just well and I think also AmigaOS 3.1/3.5/3.9 supported them, but I am not sure on the details on that, it has been a long time since I last booted one of my Amiga systems. Many classic Amiga users may not deal with such large disks, but AmigaOS 4 users probably still, and some of them may run Linux on their PowerPC motherboards as well. So I think the issue is worth fixing and am looking into submitting the fix, which looks pretty straight-forward to me upstream unless someone bets me to it. Thanks, -- Martin
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Geert, test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? (MSDOS partition support is not the only one with limitations - the SGI partition parser also uses int types. Brings back memories of /me hacking a large disk into many small partitions because Irix couldn't digest it whole!) Going to look into Atari partition format limitations now ... Cheers, Michael On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:08 PM, Geert Uytterhoevenwrote: > Hi Martin, > > CC jdow > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwald > wrote: >> You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) >> >> Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how >> to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about >> patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue >> which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to >> my testing back then solves the issue. > > While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be > handled by FUSE, moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, > as it is the only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. > > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should > be fixed. > If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's still not > a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > >> Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: >>> > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ >>> > directory. >>> > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but >>> > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. >>> > >>> > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about >>> > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched >>> > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long >>> > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not >>> > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. >>> >>> Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have >>> had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need >>> to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe >>> that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees >>> regular bugfixes. >> >> Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but >> in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga >> partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns >> for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the >> drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area >> larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned >> harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for >> old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in >> another partition. >> >> Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox >> uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, >> but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered >> to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. >> >> I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, >> hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful >> patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and >> paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report >> 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of >> future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + >> RDB stays in their current places. >> >> However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do >> so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to >> staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for >> 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with >> having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible >> in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the >> patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and >> don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about >> this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still >> feel pretty confident about it. >> >> I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see >> the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown >> clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed >> dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will >> not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Geert, test results at https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 indicate the RDB parser bug is fixed by the patch given there, so if Martin now submits the patch, all should be well? (MSDOS partition support is not the only one with limitations - the SGI partition parser also uses int types. Brings back memories of /me hacking a large disk into many small partitions because Irix couldn't digest it whole!) Going to look into Atari partition format limitations now ... Cheers, Michael On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:08 PM, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > Hi Martin, > > CC jdow > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwald > wrote: >> You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) >> >> Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how >> to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about >> patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue >> which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to >> my testing back then solves the issue. > > While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be > handled by FUSE, moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, > as it is the only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. > > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should > be fixed. > If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's still not > a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > >> Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: >>> > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ >>> > directory. >>> > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but >>> > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. >>> > >>> > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about >>> > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched >>> > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long >>> > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not >>> > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. >>> >>> Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have >>> had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need >>> to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe >>> that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees >>> regular bugfixes. >> >> Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but >> in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga >> partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns >> for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the >> drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area >> larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned >> harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for >> old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in >> another partition. >> >> Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox >> uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, >> but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered >> to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. >> >> I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, >> hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful >> patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and >> paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report >> 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of >> future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + >> RDB stays in their current places. >> >> However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do >> so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to >> staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for >> 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with >> having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible >> in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the >> patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and >> don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about >> this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still >> feel pretty confident about it. >> >> I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see >> the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown >> clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed >> dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will >> not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one maintaining it in >> the kernel, I think its unlikely
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > > While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be > handled by FUSE Moving to FUSE is a great divide-and-conquer strategy for those who just want the code to die and don't care about any of the data in that format. If there is a maintainence burden that can be shared then it should be shared -- until it can be established that there is no data of value in that format. > moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, as it is the > only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. > Whether or not the original hardware is in use is mostly irrelevant. As long as the old format is accessible using current hardware, the data in that format remains accessible (to archivists, to curators, to your decendents, etc). > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should be > fixed. If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's > still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > --
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > > While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be > handled by FUSE Moving to FUSE is a great divide-and-conquer strategy for those who just want the code to die and don't care about any of the data in that format. If there is a maintainence burden that can be shared then it should be shared -- until it can be established that there is no data of value in that format. > moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, as it is the > only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. > Whether or not the original hardware is in use is mostly irrelevant. As long as the old format is accessible using current hardware, the data in that format remains accessible (to archivists, to curators, to your decendents, etc). > If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should be > fixed. If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's > still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > --
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Martin, CC jdow On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwaldwrote: > You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) > > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how > to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about > patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue > which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to > my testing back then solves the issue. While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be handled by FUSE, moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, as it is the only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should be fixed. If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: >> > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ >> > directory. >> > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but >> > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. >> > >> > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about >> > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched >> > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long >> > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not >> > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. >> >> Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have >> had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need >> to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe >> that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees >> regular bugfixes. > > Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but > in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga > partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns > for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the > drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area > larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned > harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for > old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in > another partition. > > Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox > uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, > but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered > to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. > > I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, > hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful > patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and > paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report > 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of > future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + > RDB stays in their current places. > > However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do > so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to > staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for > 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with > having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible > in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the > patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and > don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about > this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still > feel pretty confident about it. > > I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see > the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown > clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed > dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will > not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one maintaining it in > the kernel, I think its unlikely to find someone adapting it to be a > FUSE filesystem and maintaining it. And then I am not aware of FUSE > based partitioning support. (And I think think ideally we´d had a > microkernel and run all filesystems in userspace processes with a > defined set of privileges, but that is simply not Linux as it is.) > > Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in > AmigaOS 4.1 > https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/17/6 > > Bug 43521 - Amiga RDB partitions: truncates miscalculated partition size > instead of refusing to use it > https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43521 > > Bug 43511 - Partitions: Amiga RDB
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Martin, CC jdow On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) > > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how > to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about > patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue > which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to > my testing back then solves the issue. While non-native Linux filesystem support (e.g. affs/isofs/...) could be handled by FUSE, moving RDB partition support to staging is not an option, as it is the only partitioning scheme that Amigas can boot from. If there are bugs in the RDB parser that people run into, they should be fixed. If there are limitations in the RDB format on large disks, that's still not a reason to move it to staging (hi msdos partitioning!). > Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: >> > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ >> > directory. >> > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but >> > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. >> > >> > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about >> > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched >> > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long >> > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not >> > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. >> >> Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have >> had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need >> to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe >> that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees >> regular bugfixes. > > Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but > in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga > partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns > for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the > drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area > larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned > harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for > old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in > another partition. > > Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox > uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, > but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered > to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. > > I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, > hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful > patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and > paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report > 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of > future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + > RDB stays in their current places. > > However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do > so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to > staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for > 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with > having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible > in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the > patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and > don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about > this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still > feel pretty confident about it. > > I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see > the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown > clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed > dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will > not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one maintaining it in > the kernel, I think its unlikely to find someone adapting it to be a > FUSE filesystem and maintaining it. And then I am not aware of FUSE > based partitioning support. (And I think think ideally we´d had a > microkernel and run all filesystems in userspace processes with a > defined set of privileges, but that is simply not Linux as it is.) > > Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in > AmigaOS 4.1 > https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/17/6 > > Bug 43521 - Amiga RDB partitions: truncates miscalculated partition size > instead of refusing to use it > https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43521 > > Bug 43511 - Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28:40PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how > to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about > patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue > which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to > my testing back then solves the issue. Jens can't do much unless you actually sent said patch to the linux-block list.
Re: moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 12:28:40PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how > to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about > patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue > which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to > my testing back then solves the issue. Jens can't do much unless you actually sent said patch to the linux-block list.
moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Matthew. You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to my testing back then solves the issue. Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: > > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ > > directory. > > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but > > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. > > > > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about > > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched > > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long > > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not > > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. > > Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have > had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need > to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe > that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees > regular bugfixes. Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in another partition. Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + RDB stays in their current places. However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still feel pretty confident about it. I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one maintaining it in the kernel, I think its unlikely to find someone adapting it to be a FUSE filesystem and maintaining it. And then I am not aware of FUSE based partitioning support. (And I think think ideally we´d had a microkernel and run all filesystems in userspace processes with a defined set of privileges, but that is simply not Linux as it is.) Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/17/6 Bug 43521 - Amiga RDB partitions: truncates miscalculated partition size instead of refusing to use it https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43521 Bug 43511 - Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 I forward the relevant mail of Joanne, in https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511#c7 I even have the patch in diff format. And I just checked, the issue is still unpatched as of 4.16.3. -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -- Betreff: Re: Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 Datum: Montag, 18. Juni 2012, 03:28:48 CEST Von: jdowAn: Martin Steigerwald Kopie: Geert Uytterhoeven
moving affs + RDB partition support to staging? (was: Re: Moving unmaintained filesystems to staging)
Hi Matthew. You probably put your stick into a cave with ancient sleeping dragons :) Added in linux-m68k mailing list, as they likely have an opinion on how to treat affs + RDB partition support. Also added in Jens Axboe about patching that RDB support broken with 2 TB or larger harddisks issue which had been in Linux kernel for 6 years while a patch exists that to my testing back then solves the issue. Matthew Wilcox - 26.04.18, 04:57: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:30:29PM +0200, David Sterba wrote: > > I had similar toughts some time ago while browsing the fs/ > > directory. > > Access to the filesystem images can be reimplemented in FUSE, but > > other than that, I don't think the in-kernel code would be missed. > > > > It's hard to know how many users are there. I was curious eg. about > > bfs, befs, coda or feevxfs, looked at the last commits and searched > > around web if there are any mentions or user community. But as long > > as there's somebody listed in MAINTAINERS, the above are not > > candidates for moving to staging or deletion. > > Yeah, it's pretty sad how few commits some of these filesystems have > had in recent years. One can argue that they're stable and don't need > to be fixed because they aren't broken, but I find it hard to believe > that any of them were better-implemented than ext2 which still sees > regular bugfixes. Regarding affs there is a severe issue which is not in affs itself but in the handling of Rigid Disk Block (RDB) partitions, the Amiga partitioning standard, which is far more advanced than MBR: It overruns for 2 TB or larger drives and then wraps over to the beginning of the drive – I bet you can imagine what happens if you write to an area larger than 2 TB. I learned this with an external 2TB RDB partitioned harddisk back then, which I used for Sam440ep (a kind of successor for old, classic Amiga hardware) backup + some Linux related stuff in another partition. Joanne Dow, a developer who developed hdwrench.library which HDToolBox uses for partitioning in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, provided a patch back then, but never officially put it officially through upstreaming as I offered to make a good description and upstream it through Jens Axboe. I may take this as a reason to… actually follow through this time, hopefully remembering all the details in order to provide a meaningful patch description – but I think mostly I can do just careful copy and paste. Even tough I believe Joanne Dow´s fix only fixed my bug report 43511, but not 43511 which is more about a safeguarding issue in case of future overflows, I still think it would be good to go in in case affs + RDB stays in their current places. However, in case you move affs to staging, I may be less motivated to do so, but then I suggest you also move RDB partitioning support to staging, cause this is the one that is known to be dangerously badly for 2 TB or larger disks. And yeah, I admit I did not follow through with having that patch upstreamed. Probably I did not want to be responsible in case my description would not have been absolutely accurate or the patch breaks something else. I do not have that 2 TB drive anymore and don´t feel like setting one up in a suitable way in order to go about this patch, but my testing back then was quite elaborate and I still feel pretty confident about it. I totally get your motivation, but I would find it somewhat sad to see the filesystems you mentioned go into staging. However, as I just shown clearly, for the user it may be better, cause there may be unfixed dangerous bugs. FUSE might be an interesting approach, but I bet it will not solve the maintenance issue. If there is no one maintaining it in the kernel, I think its unlikely to find someone adapting it to be a FUSE filesystem and maintaining it. And then I am not aware of FUSE based partitioning support. (And I think think ideally we´d had a microkernel and run all filesystems in userspace processes with a defined set of privileges, but that is simply not Linux as it is.) Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/17/6 Bug 43521 - Amiga RDB partitions: truncates miscalculated partition size instead of refusing to use it https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43521 Bug 43511 - Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511 I forward the relevant mail of Joanne, in https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43511#c7 I even have the patch in diff format. And I just checked, the issue is still unpatched as of 4.16.3. -- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -- Betreff: Re: Partitions: Amiga RDB partition on 2 TB disk way too big, while OK in AmigaOS 4.1 Datum: Montag, 18. Juni 2012, 03:28:48 CEST Von: jdow An: Martin Steigerwald Kopie: Geert Uytterhoeven , linux- ker...@vger.kernel.org, Jens Axboe ,