Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 01:25:32AM +0100, José Abílio Matos wrote:
> On Friday, August 19, 2016 11:06:15 PM WEST Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> > I see, but José seems against it. So it would be nice to see what others
> > think.
> > 
> > Scott
> 
> FWIW, in case it was not clear, I have/had a minor/minimal objection. :-)

OK good to know.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[José Abílio Matos]

On Friday, August 19, 2016 11:06:15 PM WEST Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> I see, but José seems against it. So it would be nice to see what others
> think.
> 
> Scott

FWIW, in case it was not clear, I have/had a minor/minimal objection. :-)

-- 
José Abílio

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 10:50:12AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 04:17:31PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> > My view on this: it is fine as long as it is some standard "edit" gesture 
> > that can be used for graphics and external inserts too.
> 
> OK and for insets that do not have an edit operation we just do nothing.
> 
> I tried to think of another general operation that maybe middle-click
> could be used for. We could use it to open the inset settings dialog,
> but this in my opinion would be inconsistent with browsers and
> left-click already opens settings of non-collapsible insets. Other than
> settings, I cannot think of anything.

The only other thing I can think of is that a middle-click could be used
in text to run forward search at that point. But there is no software
that this would be consistent with and we could always use a modifier
with a click to do this if we wanted.

So I will plan to implement JMarc's idea, which is that if an inset has
an edit feature, a middle-click will call it. If not, a middle-click
will do nothing. If someone disagrees please speak up.

Thanks for the feedback,

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 04:17:31PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> My view on this: it is fine as long as it is some standard "edit" gesture 
> that can be used for graphics and external inserts too.

OK and for insets that do not have an edit operation we just do nothing.

I tried to think of another general operation that maybe middle-click
could be used for. We could use it to open the inset settings dialog,
but this in my opinion would be inconsistent with browsers and
left-click already opens settings of non-collapsible insets. Other than
settings, I cannot think of anything.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

My view on this: it is fine as long as it is some standard "edit" gesture that 
can be used for graphics and external inserts too.

Jmarc

Le 20 août 2016 05:06:15 GMT+02:00, Scott Kostyshak  a écrit :
>I see, but José seems against it. So it would be nice to see what
>others think.

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Guillaume Munch]

Le 20/08/2016 à 04:06, Scott Kostyshak a écrit :


I see, but José seems against it. So it would be nice to see what others
think.



Subject line sounds intuitive.

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 09:15:51PM -0400, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 08/17/2016 10:14 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 09, 2016 at 04:28:15PM -0400, Richard Heck wrote:
> >> On 08/09/2016 02:03 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
>  Dear LyX devs,
> 
>  The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:
> 
>  ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
>  middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
>  shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it
> 
>  Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
>  surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
>  navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.
> 
>  Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
>  right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
>  behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
>  LyX?
> 
> >>> I would find this useful and intuitive. I too find opening included
> >>> files via right-click like a cumbersome arrangement, and such a power
> >>> feature (middle-click) would only be used by those in the know. For
> >>> those who don't know it and do it by mistake, the consequences are
> >>> minor: the user can easily close the opened document.
> >> Since the document is already open and just needs to be displayed, this
> >> takes little time, too.
> > Thanks for the additional feedback, Liviu and Richard. Unless we get
> > more feedback from others and arrive at some sort of consensus, I'm not
> > planning to do anything.
> 
> I meant to be suggesting that you should go ahead with this plan I
> think Liviu did too.

I see, but José seems against it. So it would be nice to see what others
think.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Richard Heck]

On 08/17/2016 10:14 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 09, 2016 at 04:28:15PM -0400, Richard Heck wrote:
>> On 08/09/2016 02:03 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
 Dear LyX devs,

 The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:

 ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
 middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
 shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it

 Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
 surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
 navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.

 Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
 right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
 behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
 LyX?

>>> I would find this useful and intuitive. I too find opening included
>>> files via right-click like a cumbersome arrangement, and such a power
>>> feature (middle-click) would only be used by those in the know. For
>>> those who don't know it and do it by mistake, the consequences are
>>> minor: the user can easily close the opened document.
>> Since the document is already open and just needs to be displayed, this
>> takes little time, too.
> Thanks for the additional feedback, Liviu and Richard. Unless we get
> more feedback from others and arrive at some sort of consensus, I'm not
> planning to do anything.

I meant to be suggesting that you should go ahead with this plan I
think Liviu did too.

rh

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Aug 09, 2016 at 04:28:15PM -0400, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 08/09/2016 02:03 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
> >> Dear LyX devs,
> >>
> >> The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:
> >>
> >> ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
> >> middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
> >> shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it
> >>
> >> Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
> >> surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
> >> navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.
> >>
> >
> >> Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
> >> right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
> >> behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
> >> LyX?
> >>
> > I would find this useful and intuitive. I too find opening included
> > files via right-click like a cumbersome arrangement, and such a power
> > feature (middle-click) would only be used by those in the know. For
> > those who don't know it and do it by mistake, the consequences are
> > minor: the user can easily close the opened document.
> 
> Since the document is already open and just needs to be displayed, this
> takes little time, too.

Thanks for the additional feedback, Liviu and Richard. Unless we get
more feedback from others and arrive at some sort of consensus, I'm not
planning to do anything.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Richard Heck]

On 08/09/2016 02:03 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
>> Dear LyX devs,
>>
>> The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:
>>
>> ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
>> middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
>> shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it
>>
>> Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
>> surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
>> navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.
>>
>
>> Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
>> right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
>> behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
>> LyX?
>>
> I would find this useful and intuitive. I too find opening included
> files via right-click like a cumbersome arrangement, and such a power
> feature (middle-click) would only be used by those in the know. For
> those who don't know it and do it by mistake, the consequences are
> minor: the user can easily close the opened document.

Since the document is already open and just needs to be displayed, this
takes little time, too.

Richard

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Liviu Andronic]

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
> Dear LyX devs,
>
> The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:
>
> ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
> middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
> shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it
>
> Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
> surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
> navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.
>


> Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
> right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
> behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
> LyX?
>
I would find this useful and intuitive. I too find opening included
files via right-click like a cumbersome arrangement, and such a power
feature (middle-click) would only be used by those in the know. For
those who don't know it and do it by mistake, the consequences are
minor: the user can easily close the opened document.

Regards,
Liviu


> The current behavior when middle-clicking on a child document is
> the same as middle-clicking in text: paste selection (assuming
> middle-button pasting is not disabled in preferences) to the left of the
> inset.
>
> Scott

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 09:02:25PM +0100, José Abílio Matos wrote:

> Yet for me a browser is a read-only process where I am a consumer
> while with 
> lyx is a write process where I am a producer/maker. That is to say
> that 
> mentally that analogy is not obvious. I would not expect for lyx to
> behave 
> like a browser.

I agree that the analogy is not a perfect one and the differences are
important. But I think for some things the analogy is close enough. For
example: GNOME Terminal, Nautilus, and Chromium are quite different
applications, but ctrl+page-up cycles through tabs on all three.

> I want to reinforce your analysis that it is not intuitive to open an
> included 
> file opening the inset. Actually now that I think of it the file is
> also 
> available through View->Hidden but in this context that operation is
> also 
> cumbersome.

True, and another possibility to make things easier would be to put the
cursor before the inset and use a keyboard shortcut. But I actually find
right-clicking and going to edit to be the easiest of the current
alternatives.

In any case, I do not plan to proceed. There doesn't seem to be much
excitement. And even for the middle-click close of a tab there was some
resistance (on lyx-users). I think there would be even more resistance
for this.

> This is IMHO, of course. :-)

Mine is only IMO :)

Thanks for the feedback, José.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: middle-click to open child documents?

[José Abílio Matos]

On Friday, August 5, 2016 10:56:31 PM WEST Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> Dear LyX devs,
> 
> The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:
> 
> ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
> middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
> shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it
> 
> Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
> surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
> navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.

I also like to use the middle click to open a new tab without switching to it.

> Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
> right-click and go to "Edit Included file".

I have always found this annoying, to say the least. :-)

> Would we want to allow the
> behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
> LyX? The current behavior when middle-clicking on a child document is
> the same as middle-clicking in text: paste selection (assuming
> middle-button pasting is not disabled in preferences) to the left of the
> inset.
> 
> Scott

I understand your point. :-)
Yet for me a browser is a read-only process where I am a consumer while with 
lyx is a write process where I am a producer/maker. That is to say that 
mentally that analogy is not obvious. I would not expect for lyx to behave 
like a browser.

I want to reinforce your analysis that it is not intuitive to open an included 
file opening the inset. Actually now that I think of it the file is also 
available through View->Hidden but in this context that operation is also 
cumbersome.

This is IMHO, of course. :-)

Regards,
-- 
José Abílio

middle-click to open child documents?

[Scott Kostyshak]

Dear LyX devs,

The following behavior is shared by Firefox and Chromium:

ctrl+left-click opens a tab but does not switch to it
middle-click is the same as ctrl+left click
shift+middle-click opens the tab and switches to it

Since learning about middle-click to open tabs in browsers, I find it
surprisingly convenient. I can lazily use one hand on the mouse for
navigating and setting up tabs how I want them.

Currently in LyX, to open an included file I think the only way is to
right-click and go to "Edit Included file". Would we want to allow the
behavior described above for browsers for opening child documents in
LyX? The current behavior when middle-clicking on a child document is
the same as middle-clicking in text: paste selection (assuming
middle-button pasting is not disabled in preferences) to the left of the
inset.

Scott


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature