Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I'd be happy with a serviceable LCD replacement. On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:35 AM me wrote: > > > https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs/ > > Now if someone could do this for the T's. > > On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: > > > > > > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see > > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. > > > > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse > > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. > > >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:55 PM David Hughes-Robinson wrote: > > I for one would love a replica m100, as my soldering skills are currently > keeping me from pulling the trigger on an original one. Does anybody have a > link to the teensy project mentioned earlier in the thread? > Are current M100's / T102s on Ebay that bad? I'm not in acquisition mode but I have never had a problem finding working Model Ts. -- John.
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
You make some valid points. With a well maintained system, there should be no reason to replace the original pcb. Agreed. On 5/7/20 5:22 AM, Jeffrey Birt wrote: I saw the video was out but have not watched it yet. It makes me happy to see folks around the world being able to fix their C64 and Amiga cases. I have to admit to being indifferent about the C64 clone PCBs. Hans (bwack on YouTube) did a series of videos on how he copied the rarer KU PCB which was interesting just to see his approach. In general, though original PCBs are not in short supply, you are still using the same old chips as well. You still need an original case, keyboard, etc. Other than the satisfaction of soldering it together yourself I don't see the benefit. Something like the Ultimate64 makes more sense if you have a duff board you don't want to mess with as you can reuse the old case and KB and get all new modern innards that can run at 50mhz, has more RAM built in, 1541 emulation built in, etc. As for new M100 PCBs, it is the same story. You still need the rest of the computer, case screen, KB and you have to reuse the old chips. The most common failures I have seen are the electrolytic caps, screen contact corrosion and RAM module failure. The caps and RAM are easy to fix, and the screen problem would negate using it either way. A new 'hot rod' M100 PCB might be interesting though, an "Ultimate M100" if you will. Jeff Birt (Hey Birt! on YouTube) -Original Message- From: M100 On Behalf Of me Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:29 AM To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning.
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I’m currently about 90% done with the new C64 motherboard. Almost all new parts except obviously the chips specific to the C64. It’s been a fun project. Tons of soldering of parts since I’m doing the older revision board. I have about 5 C64s that look really worse for wear on the PCB and I’m telling you this looks so much better. I also have an Ultimate 64 which I really think is the ultimate “new” C64. Sean
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I for one would love a replica m100, as my soldering skills are currently keeping me from pulling the trigger on an original one. Does anybody have a link to the teensy project mentioned earlier in the thread? On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 04:29 me wrote: > > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. > > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. > >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
On 5/7/2020 1:35 PM, Jeff Gonzales wrote: Stupid question: Do hobbyists take these, find all the chips, and then solder them? Yes, yes they do (they typically grab the ICs from stock or boards mangled too far beyond repair). I agree with another poster that I had considered duplicating the boards long ago, but the sheer number of C64s in the wild seemed to limit appeal. I think folks who buy these love the color options, the cleaner PCB look (Commodore and lots of 80's motherboards were copper coated with solder and then soldermasked, so the solder bubbles under the soldermask and buckles the soldermask in places). I think classic computer ownership is aligning with classic car ownership in the style and direction. I look at a clone motherboard as just a ton of soldering work, but popping out a 351 from a ford to strip it, replace the block, primer, paint it a wild color, and dump it back into the vehicle seems pretty standard, and that's basically what you're doing here. With a design like the 64, it's hard to throw stones (what about the value of the old motherboard?), because Commodore spun these things out of the factory as fast as they could, like cheap plastic toys. And, there's so many, it's harder to wax poetic about a single 250466 board with a bad trace or two being ditched for one of these. I'd put the M100 in the same camp, as I think it was a widely used unit and so there are plenty of unit around. A TI 99/2, 99/8, C65, or some of the lesser known production units from the 80's? People would hurl insults if someone pulled the ICs off one of those for a replica motherboard. All that said, I do like the idea of a T100 NG, maybe using some real parts, but having some additional items (different screen which can emulate the 8x40, but has more pixels, faster CPU< more RAM, etc.). Jim
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 11:36 AM Jeff Gonzales wrote: > Stupid question: Do hobbyists take these, find all the chips, and then > solder them > Yes. The idea generally is to use these as replacements for a motherboard that has been physically damaged past the point of easy repair. So a user might pull most or all the chips from a damaged system and install them on this board. With a modern desoldering pump, you can remove the chips in seconds, then install them in sockets on the new board. Also, a lot of the older boards have sockets on the larger chips, so the only ones that would need to be desoldered are logic and RAM chips. And personally, I'd just replace those, anyway.
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
Stupid question: Do hobbyists take these, find all the chips, and then solder them? On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:55 AM Stephen Adolph wrote: > omg. thats a lot of work! > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:35 AM me wrote: > >> >> >> https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs/ >> >> Now if someone could do this for the T's. >> >> On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see >> > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. >> > >> > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse >> > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. >> > >> >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I agree with you that the repro PCBs are mostly pointless; there are plenty of originals out there, plus C64 Reloaded and Ultimate64, which I think both have some good advantages. If you’re going to ditch the original hardware, seems like you ought to get some modern features for it. However, you can scratch build most of a C64 with reproduction parts these days. There’s new production C64C style cases, keyboards, and you can get pin-compatible SID and PLA replacements. I’m not sure about the VIC, though. I have an Ultimate64 in a repro case, and it’s pretty fantastic. Jeffrey Birt writes: I saw the video was out but have not watched it yet. It makes me happy to see folks around the world being able to fix their C64 and Amiga cases. I have to admit to being indifferent about the C64 clone PCBs. Hans (bwack on YouTube) did a series of videos on how he copied the rarer KU PCB which was interesting just to see his approach. In general, though original PCBs are not in short supply, you are still using the same old chips as well. You still need an original case, keyboard, etc. Other than the satisfaction of soldering it together yourself I don't see the benefit. Something like the Ultimate64 makes more sense if you have a duff board you don't want to mess with as you can reuse the old case and KB and get all new modern innards that can run at 50mhz, has more RAM built in, 1541 emulation built in, etc. As for new M100 PCBs, it is the same story. You still need the rest of the computer, case screen, KB and you have to reuse the old chips. The most common failures I have seen are the electrolytic caps, screen contact corrosion and RAM module failure. The caps and RAM are easy to fix, and the screen problem would negate using it either way. A new 'hot rod' M100 PCB might be interesting though, an "Ultimate M100" if you will. Jeff Birt (Hey Birt! on YouTube) -Original Message- From: M100 On Behalf Of me Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:29 AM To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning.
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I do not have a link but if you have questions etc please feel free to contact me off list. From: M100 on behalf of Wayne Talbot Reply-To: Date: Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 7:10 AM To: Subject: Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos > I would be interested in knowing more about the teensy M100 project. Would you > share the link with me? > Wayne Talbot
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I would be interested in knowing more about the teensy M100 project. Would you share the link with me? Wayne Talbot On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 8:57 AM B4 Me100 wrote: > The one I like is the ZX Spectrum Next https://www.specnext.com/ It is > more of an update rework with a new case etc using FPGAs to replace just > about all of the logic. > > The M100 has been done but not to the level of the C64, it uses a Teensy > but has all the ports except the modem port. :) > > > [image: > https://644db4de3505c40a0444-327723bce298e3ff5813fb42baeefbaa.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/f3e823e323c64ccda4edd8c73c32c50d.png] > > > From: M100 on behalf of Stephen > Adolph > Reply-To: > Date: Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 3:55 AM > To: > Subject: Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos > > omg. thats a lot of work! > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:35 AM me wrote: > >> >> >> https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs/ >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tindie.com%2Fproducts%2Fbobsbits%2Fsixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs%2F=02%7C01%7C%7Cd9e9175ffbdf48273db408d7f27528d3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637244457313131956=O5hLV7oqptDZx%2FxpCOrDr8cVhrnbnTSkJCq68TXz4Nk%3D=0> >> >> Now if someone could do this for the T's. >> >> On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see >> > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. >> > >> > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse >> > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. >> > >> >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
The one I like is the ZX Spectrum Next https://www.specnext.com/ It is more of an update rework with a new case etc using FPGAs to replace just about all of the logic. The M100 has been done but not to the level of the C64, it uses a Teensy but has all the ports except the modem port. :) From: M100 on behalf of Stephen Adolph Reply-To: Date: Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 3:55 AM To: Subject: Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos > omg. thats a lot of work! > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:35 AM me wrote: >> >> https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs >> / >> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tindie >> .com%2Fproducts%2Fbobsbits%2Fsixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs%2F=02% >> 7C01%7C%7Cd9e9175ffbdf48273db408d7f27528d3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435 >> %7C1%7C0%7C637244457313131956=O5hLV7oqptDZx%2FxpCOrDr8cVhrnbnTSkJCq68TX >> z4Nk%3D=0> >> >> Now if someone could do this for the T's. >> >> On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see >>> > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. >>> > >>> > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse >>> > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. >>> >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
Sorry for the OT, On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:22 PM Jeffrey Birt wrote: > > I saw the video was out but have not watched it yet. It makes me happy to see > folks around the world being able to fix their C64 and Amiga cases. > > I have to admit to being indifferent about the C64 clone PCBs. Hans (bwack on > YouTube) did a series of videos on how he copied the rarer KU PCB which was > interesting just to see his approach. In general, though original PCBs are > not in short supply, you are still using the same old chips as well. You > still need an original case, keyboard, etc. Other than the satisfaction of > soldering it together yourself I don't see the benefit. Thanks for sharing your opinion, it makes me feel less "alone", having the same exact opinion. I think most of the lost PCBs in the last few years are because of people trying to "repair" them without having the skills for the job. Frank
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
I saw the video was out but have not watched it yet. It makes me happy to see folks around the world being able to fix their C64 and Amiga cases. I have to admit to being indifferent about the C64 clone PCBs. Hans (bwack on YouTube) did a series of videos on how he copied the rarer KU PCB which was interesting just to see his approach. In general, though original PCBs are not in short supply, you are still using the same old chips as well. You still need an original case, keyboard, etc. Other than the satisfaction of soldering it together yourself I don't see the benefit. Something like the Ultimate64 makes more sense if you have a duff board you don't want to mess with as you can reuse the old case and KB and get all new modern innards that can run at 50mhz, has more RAM built in, 1541 emulation built in, etc. As for new M100 PCBs, it is the same story. You still need the rest of the computer, case screen, KB and you have to reuse the old chips. The most common failures I have seen are the electrolytic caps, screen contact corrosion and RAM module failure. The caps and RAM are easy to fix, and the screen problem would negate using it either way. A new 'hot rod' M100 PCB might be interesting though, an "Ultimate M100" if you will. Jeff Birt (Hey Birt! on YouTube) -Original Message- From: M100 On Behalf Of me Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:29 AM To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning.
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
omg. thats a lot of work! On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 4:35 AM me wrote: > > > https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs/ > > Now if someone could do this for the T's. > > On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: > > > > > > Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see > > his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. > > > > Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse > > engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning. > > >
Re: [M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone-commodore-64-replica-pcbs/ Now if someone could do this for the T's. On 5/7/20 1:29 AM, me wrote: Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning.
[M100] C64 restoration and fresh mobos
Hey Birt, I watched Adrian's basement just now and was pleased to see his receiving some case tabs from you. That was cool. Did you see the video? I am rather impressed that someone reverse engineered the original C64 motherboard. It's stunning.
