Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 3 May 2019, at 16:12, Randall Gellens wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 6:23, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 2:21, Randall Gellens wrote: I have been unable to figure out any way to include an HTML table. But, I am not sure how fancy such a feature would need to be. Currently, it's done like this: Thank you. Where did you find the documentation? It's not in the MailMate manual. Searching on Markdown tables reveal various resources, for example, [here](https://www.markdownguide.org/extended-syntax/). The exact syntax supported by the Markdown converter in MailMate doesn't matter much since I have to eventually drop this converter. The replacement might not support tables, but in that case third party converters will be allowed and then MailMate will support whatever is supported by those third party converters. -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 3 May 2019, at 16:12, Randall Gellens wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 6:23, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 2:21, Randall Gellens wrote: I have been unable to figure out any way to include an HTML table. But, I am not sure how fancy such a feature would need to be. Currently, it's done like this: Thank you. Where did you find the documentation? You could also try something like TableFlip https://tableflipapp.com -erik ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 3 May 2019, at 6:23, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 3 May 2019, at 2:21, Randall Gellens wrote: I have been unable to figure out any way to include an HTML table. But, I am not sure how fancy such a feature would need to be. Currently, it's done like this: Thank you. Where did you find the documentation? ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
There are some helpful Markdown resources out there. Can’t remember where I first learned of these – maybe from this list? - [MultiMarkdown Guide](https://rawgit.com/fletcher/human-markdown-reference/master/index.html) - [Markdown Tables Generator](http://www.tablesgenerator.com/markdown_tables) -- Thomas ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 3 May 2019, at 2:21, Randall Gellens wrote: I have been unable to figure out any way to include an HTML table. But, I am not sure how fancy such a feature would need to be. Currently, it's done like this: ~~~ |First|Second| |-|--| |a|b | |c|d | ~~~ Which produces: |First|Second| |-|--| |a|b | |c|d | -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 2 May 2019, at 17:13, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 2 May 2019, at 5:07, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: The exception would be if the sender uses tabs in plain text to align something *not* at the beginning of a line. In this case, it would make sense to enforce a particular tab size by converting it into spaces. Then it might also make sense to generate HTML which enforces the use of a fixed-width font when the message is displayed. This isn't scenario that makes much sense unless both the sender and the recipient are using fixed-width fonts, I suspect. And trying to figure out the semantics for conversion to a are difficult. Suppose, for example, that the user types two tabs in a row. Is that an empty entry, or is it visually aligning things? And how would you decide where the table entries start? Seeing where the left edge of the bounding box for the first character after a tab is? Suppose that the table is actually numeric entries, where I tab to the table cell, but then space so that the numbers are right-justified. Do you want to interpret that, too? My conclusion is that it would be a nice feature to have but not nearly worth your pain, as long as there's some way to include an HTML table. (I don't know Markdown nearly well enough to guess—I've never really learned it; I find it just as easy to type actual HTML…) I suspect that converting to spaces is the easy, sane way, perhaps with some auto-select to a fixed-width font. I have been unable to figure out any way to include an HTML table. But, I am not sure how fancy such a feature would need to be. Simply sending as HTML with a fixed-width font and converting the tabs to spaces would cover the vast majority of cases, I suspect. --Randall ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 2 May 2019, at 5:07, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: The exception would be if the sender uses tabs in plain text to align something *not* at the beginning of a line. In this case, it would make sense to enforce a particular tab size by converting it into spaces. Then it might also make sense to generate HTML which enforces the use of a fixed-width font when the message is displayed. This isn't scenario that makes much sense unless both the sender and the recipient are using fixed-width fonts, I suspect. And trying to figure out the semantics for conversion to a are difficult. Suppose, for example, that the user types two tabs in a row. Is that an empty entry, or is it visually aligning things? And how would you decide where the table entries start? Seeing where the left edge of the bounding box for the first character after a tab is? Suppose that the table is actually numeric entries, where I tab to the table cell, but then space so that the numbers are right-justified. Do you want to interpret that, too? My conclusion is that it would be a nice feature to have but not nearly worth your pain, as long as there's some way to include an HTML table. (I don't know Markdown nearly well enough to guess—I've never really learned it; I find it just as easy to type actual HTML…) I suspect that converting to spaces is the easy, sane way, perhaps with some auto-select to a fixed-width font. --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 2 May 2019, at 2:07, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 1 May 2019, at 23:09, Randall Gellens wrote: Is there an option to convert tabs into spaces when composing mail? No, but maybe there should be. I haven't really given tabs in emails much thought. I rarely use tabs, but when I do, it's to align text typically within a set of lines (poor man's table). In general, I think the receiving email client should be in charge of how an email is displayed. If sending plain text, I think giving the sender the option of converting tabs to spaces makes sense. Otherwise, a sender might see a tab as four spaces, and format a series of lines that way, but the sender has tabs at eight spaces and hence the lines are all messed up and folded onto multiple lines. The receiver likely wouldn't even think of tabs as being a cause, they'd just think the sender sent garbage. The exception would be if the sender uses tabs in plain text to align something *not* at the beginning of a line. In this case, it would make sense to enforce a particular tab size by converting it into spaces. Then it might also make sense to generate HTML which enforces the use of a fixed-width font when the message is displayed. I agree that sounds like it would be a good way to handle it, now that HTML support is ubiquitous. --Randall ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 1 May 2019, at 23:09, Randall Gellens wrote: Is there an option to convert tabs into spaces when composing mail? No, but maybe there should be. I haven't really given tabs in emails much thought. In general, I think the receiving email client should be in charge of how an email is displayed. In MailMate, I think I'm just using the macOS default which appears to be 4 when displaying HTML. The `tab-size` CSS value could probably be used to change that. (Observation: The current Markdown converter in MailMate seems to replace tabs with 4 spaces for `` segments, but this does not happen in a meaningful way.) The exception would be if the sender uses tabs in plain text to align something *not* at the beginning of a line. In this case, it would make sense to enforce a particular tab size by converting it into spaces. Then it might also make sense to generate HTML which enforces the use of a fixed-width font when the message is displayed. It's likely impossible to satisfy everyone (just try googling tabs-vs-spaces), but if I change the current default behavior then I'll also make sure to add options to control it. -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
Is there an option to convert tabs into spaces when composing mail? --Randall On 1 May 2019, at 0:12, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 5 Apr 2019, at 22:00, Greg Earle wrote: MailMate seems to default to tab stops being set to 4. I'm old and like 8. Yes, MailMate has always been hardcoded to 4 and it's a bit of a hack. It doesn't even work if changing font size and/or font. Surprisingly, I don't think anyone has ever commented on this. Any way to change it? I did a "defaults read" and looked through the output but didn't see anything. Also looked in ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/*.plist. Nada. The latest test release supports this: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmComposerTabSize -integer 8 I've also fixed some bugs including that the tab size of 4 didn't even work correctly if changing the font and/or the font size. (There's still an issue just after changing font. You need to open a new composer window for the tab setting to work properly.) On a completely different note, is there any way to turn off message previewing for multiple selected messages? You can change the maximum number like this: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmMaximumMessagesDisplayed -integer 1 -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 5 Apr 2019, at 22:00, Greg Earle wrote: MailMate seems to default to tab stops being set to 4. I'm old and like 8. Yes, MailMate has always been hardcoded to 4 and it's a bit of a hack. It doesn't even work if changing font size and/or font. Surprisingly, I don't think anyone has ever commented on this. Any way to change it? I did a "defaults read" and looked through the output but didn't see anything. Also looked in ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/*.plist. Nada. The latest test release supports this: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmComposerTabSize -integer 8 I've also fixed some bugs including that the tab size of 4 didn't even work correctly if changing the font and/or the font size. (There's still an issue just after changing font. You need to open a new composer window for the tab setting to work properly.) On a completely different note, is there any way to turn off message previewing for multiple selected messages? You can change the maximum number like this: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmMaximumMessagesDisplayed -integer 1 -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
thx for the hint. but for my feature request it is only the half way On 7 Apr 2019, at 1:28, David Shepherdson wrote: On 6 Apr 2019, at 07.00, Greg Earle wrote: In my job I get a lot of e-mails that are of a similar nature and of an informational level so I delete a lot of them. When I go to select a lot of messages (to either delete or forward) - or select a few, but they are really long messages (like log file outputs) - MailMate invariably takes a while and beach-balls. I’ve previously seen mention on the mailing list here that you can use the following command to prevent the display of multiple messages when selected: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmMaximumMessagesDisplayed -integer 1 From a quick try, it seems that with this applied, you just get an empty preview pane if you select more than one message. Given it seems to be an integer setting, you could potentially experiment with larger values than 1 to see if there’s a good compromise between usefulness and performance. David ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 6 Apr 2019, at 07.00, Greg Earle wrote: In my job I get a lot of e-mails that are of a similar nature and of an informational level so I delete a lot of them. When I go to select a lot of messages (to either delete or forward) - or select a few, but they are really long messages (like log file outputs) - MailMate invariably takes a while and beach-balls. I’ve previously seen mention on the mailing list here that you can use the following command to prevent the display of multiple messages when selected: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmMaximumMessagesDisplayed -integer 1 From a quick try, it seems that with this applied, you just get an empty preview pane if you select more than one message. Given it seems to be an integer setting, you could potentially experiment with larger values than 1 to see if there’s a good compromise between usefulness and performance. David___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 5 Apr 2019, at 14:59, Robert Brenstein wrote: Have you tried opening each message in its own window? Shift-cmd-o instead of cmd-o after you select multiple messages. I am opening some times on the order of 30-40 messages this way at once. Robert, I'm not opening multiple messages. I am either selecting them to delete them or I am selecting them to forward them (in one message). - Greg ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
Have you tried opening each message in its own window? Shift-cmd-o instead of cmd-o after you select multiple messages. I am opening some times of the order of 30-40 messages this way at once. On 5 Apr 2019, at 22:00, Greg Earle wrote: Benny, Two unrelated questions: MailMate seems to default to tab stops being set to 4. I'm old and like 8. Any way to change it? I did a "defaults read" and looked through the output but didn't see anything. Also looked in ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/*.plist. Nada. On a completely different note, is there any way to turn off message previewing for multiple selected messages? In my job I get a lot of e-mails that are of a similar nature and of an informational level so I delete a lot of them. When I go to select a lot of messages (to either delete or forward) - or select a few, but they are really long messages (like log file outputs) - MailMate invariably takes a while and beach-balls. (I like the way Apple Mail handles selecting multiple messages - shows you the top-most one and makes it look like a stack of papers that are slightly askew so you can see there are multiple messages. No fuss, no muss - and no beach-balling.) Thanks, - Greg ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
For your second problem I suggested some days ago in thread "Preview Pane should show last new item" and some mails later: only one preview of of the last selected message. Then it should be the same effect as apple mail and should be also faster when selecting many messages. I hope Benny implement this "single preview" feature :) Von meinem iDingens gesendet... Von meinem iDingens gesendet... > Am 05.04.2019 um 22:00 schrieb Greg Earle : > > Benny, > > Two unrelated questions: > > MailMate seems to default to tab stops being set to 4. I'm old and like 8. > > Any way to change it? I did a "defaults read" and looked through the output > but didn't see anything. Also looked in ~/Library/Application\ > Support/MailMate/*.plist. Nada. > > On a completely different note, is there any way to turn off message > previewing for multiple selected messages? > > In my job I get a lot of e-mails that are of a similar nature and of an > informational level so I delete a lot of them. When I go to select a lot of > messages (to either delete or forward) - or select a few, but they are really > long messages (like log file outputs) - MailMate invariably takes a while and > beach-balls. > > (I like the way Apple Mail handles selecting multiple messages - shows you > the top-most one and makes it look like a stack of papers that are slightly > askew so you can see there are multiple messages. No fuss, no muss - and no > beach-balling.) > > Thanks, > >- Greg > > ___ > mailmate mailing list > mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Tab stops and previews of multiple selected messages
On 5 Apr 2019, at 22:00, Greg Earle wrote: MailMate seems to default to tab stops being set to 4. I'm old and like 8. Any way to change it? I did a "defaults read" and looked through the output but didn't see anything. Also looked in ~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/*.plist. Nada. I'm using BBEdit for editing messages in MailMate and therefore use the tab width from BBEdit (that's 2 for me). Regards, Vlad ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
