Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
I'm glad I asked. As the kids say "TIL that REA was loans to rural coops." -Curt On Tuesday, April 30, 2019, 4:32:04 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote: REA helped Lektrick coops to organize and offered them low interest loans. AFIK, all loans from the 1930s were paid back long ago. I doubt any were over 50 years. Is a loan program really a subsidy? If the loan is subsidized like FHA, VA etc, then maybe. I don't know if the loans to the REA coops were subsidized or not. Are federal guaranteed loans for rural development a subsidy? IMHO, not as long as they are paid back. To me it only becomes a subsidy when the borrower defaults. Curt Raymond wrote on 4/30/19 10:59 AM: > How does REA have any justification when other subsidies don't? If > people want to live out there why is it okay to use other people's > money to give them electricity? > > Really what I'm asking is if "no subsidies" is the goal how can there > be some subsidies? > > For the record rural electrification was a hugely important step for > our country and is a big part of the reason for our safe and stable > food supply which is a big part of blah blah etc... I'm just curious > as this seems like a "blind spot" subsidy... > > -Curt > > a ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
I am on the board of our little rural water company. We got federal loans to build new infrastructure (and the original build-out 40+ years ago) because banks won’t loan money for that although we were later able to refinance those loans through private banks to get lower interest rates. We still have a fairly big loan for a new water tank a few years back, the rate is pretty good so we won’t be dealing with that. It’s all part of federal (and some state) law how we are able to function. It’s actually a pretty weird setup. --FT Sent from iPhone > On Apr 30, 2019, at 4:31 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > REA helped Lektrick coops to organize and offered them low interest loans. > AFIK, all loans from the 1930s were paid back long ago. I doubt any were > over 50 years. Is a loan program really a subsidy? If the loan is > subsidized like FHA, VA etc, then maybe. I don't know if the loans to the > REA coops were subsidized or not. Are federal guaranteed loans for rural > development a subsidy? IMHO, not as long as they are paid back. To me it > only becomes a subsidy when the borrower defaults. > > Curt Raymond wrote on 4/30/19 10:59 AM: >> How does REA have any justification when other subsidies don't? If people >> want to live out there why is it okay to use other people's money to give >> them electricity? >> >> Really what I'm asking is if "no subsidies" is the goal how can there be >> some subsidies? >> >> For the record rural electrification was a hugely important step for our >> country and is a big part of the reason for our safe and stable food supply >> which is a big part of blah blah etc... I'm just curious as this seems like >> a "blind spot" subsidy... >> >> -Curt >> >> > a > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
REA helped Lektrick coops to organize and offered them low interest loans. AFIK, all loans from the 1930s were paid back long ago. I doubt any were over 50 years. Is a loan program really a subsidy? If the loan is subsidized like FHA, VA etc, then maybe. I don't know if the loans to the REA coops were subsidized or not. Are federal guaranteed loans for rural development a subsidy? IMHO, not as long as they are paid back. To me it only becomes a subsidy when the borrower defaults. Curt Raymond wrote on 4/30/19 10:59 AM: How does REA have any justification when other subsidies don't? If people want to live out there why is it okay to use other people's money to give them electricity? Really what I'm asking is if "no subsidies" is the goal how can there be some subsidies? For the record rural electrification was a hugely important step for our country and is a big part of the reason for our safe and stable food supply which is a big part of blah blah etc... I'm just curious as this seems like a "blind spot" subsidy... -Curt a ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
> Curt wrote: > How does REA have any justification when other subsidies don't? Are the other subsidies "gifts" or "loans"? I believe all the money in REA was as loans. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Cape Wind also had to deal with Tribal issues. https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/aquinnah-wampanoag-sues-feds-over-cape-wind-OAkvpCXRH06s8ZIAF4K6zg/ On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:05 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Cape Wind was the WORST NIBY case ever, the windmills would have been > almost invisible from land. I forget exactly but they were miles out and > would have been inches high on the horizon... > -Curt > > On Monday, April 29, 2019, 6:03:50 PM EDT, Buggered Benzmail via > Mercedes wrote: > > Err uh, err uh, Senatah Kennedy (D-UI) was err uh not in favah of them > offshoah in err uh Nantucket Sound as they would err uh represent an > impediment to his err uh sailing prowess, especially err uh while SUI. > > But he has err uh been sobah now for err uh 7 or 8 yeahs so he might err > uh have a different opinion now. > > --FT > Sent from iPhone > > > On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Well, rich upright primates don't like them either. There have been > some pretty spectacular NIMBY cases out east. > > > > Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 3:28 PM: > >> Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within > miles of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see > >>> their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near > there. > >>> Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Cape Wind was the WORST NIBY case ever, the windmills would have been almost invisible from land. I forget exactly but they were miles out and would have been inches high on the horizon... -Curt On Monday, April 29, 2019, 6:03:50 PM EDT, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote: Err uh, err uh, Senatah Kennedy (D-UI) was err uh not in favah of them offshoah in err uh Nantucket Sound as they would err uh represent an impediment to his err uh sailing prowess, especially err uh while SUI. But he has err uh been sobah now for err uh 7 or 8 yeahs so he might err uh have a different opinion now. --FT Sent from iPhone > On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Well, rich upright primates don't like them either. There have been some > pretty spectacular NIMBY cases out east. > > Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 3:28 PM: >> Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within miles >> of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see >>> their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. >>> Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Come to the hospital in Gardner and watch the turkeys flock under the wind turbines. You can see them from where I go to cardiac rehab. Now if I could only sit under there with my shotgun... The really big turbines being installed today barely make any noise at all. Gardner has I think 4 1.5MW turbines, you can go stand under them, they're much quieter than a 300D idling. (MB content) :) -Curt On Monday, April 29, 2019, 4:29:45 PM EDT, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote: Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within miles of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > > Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see > their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. > Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> >> >> In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most >> robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's what's >> driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of >> turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. >> >> "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he >> said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive on >> promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, >> Jr., Bloomberg* >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain > > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence > for themselves." > > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
How does REA have any justification when other subsidies don't? If people want to live out there why is it okay to use other people's money to give them electricity? Really what I'm asking is if "no subsidies" is the goal how can there be some subsidies? For the record rural electrification was a hugely important step for our country and is a big part of the reason for our safe and stable food supply which is a big part of blah blah etc... I'm just curious as this seems like a "blind spot" subsidy... -Curt On Monday, April 29, 2019, 4:18:35 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote: Yes, absolutely. I have always been for no gummit intervention in the free market. No incentives/subsidies/tax breaks for wind, solar, coal, NG, CNG, propane, petroleum, etc. That said, things like the REA for bringing lektrick or internet to areas where no private company can justify building lines has some justification. The gummit should get out of areas not specified in the constitution. They SHOULD mind the business specified in the Constitution, like protecting the country from all enemies, domestic and foreign. Andrew Strasfogel wrote on 4/29/19 1:06 PM: Would you agree to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies as well? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
The combined water/sewer/trash bill arrived this morning on the house in Seattle. For the pleasure of using no water from Jan.1 until April 16, I got a bill for $146.78. No rebate for being on “vacation”. The trash service did charge me an extra $6.50 to be on vacation, but gave a credit for not putting out yard waste/compost or recycling. Sometimes I wish bad things would happen to bad civic leaders. Why could the crane have not fallen on the mayor and squished her car? clay, > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> In other words: T'ain't practical unless you rob other people at gun >> point to pay for it. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Err uh, err uh, Senatah Kennedy (D-UI) was err uh not in favah of them offshoah in err uh Nantucket Sound as they would err uh represent an impediment to his err uh sailing prowess, especially err uh while SUI. But he has err uh been sobah now for err uh 7 or 8 yeahs so he might err uh have a different opinion now. --FT Sent from iPhone > On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Well, rich upright primates don't like them either. There have been some > pretty spectacular NIMBY cases out east. > > Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 3:28 PM: >> Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within miles >> of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see >>> their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. >>> Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Siting issues are a problem for all energy sources: oil and gas wells, centralized solar, pipelines, coal mines, nuclear power plants and waste repositories, and wind turbines. Best solution for wind is offshore - out of sight and with less chances of avian mortalities. On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:33 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Well, rich upright primates don't like them either. There have been > some pretty spectacular NIMBY cases out east. > > Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 3:28 PM: > > Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within > miles of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > >> > >> Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see > >> their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near > there. > >> Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Well, rich upright primates don't like them either. There have been some pretty spectacular NIMBY cases out east. Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 3:28 PM: Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within miles of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Yes, we had friends who lived "off the grid", primarily because there was no Lektrick to their place, and the cost of running it there varied from the low 5 figgers to high 5 figgers and up. For them, wind and solar make sense. The cost per KwH is high, but they learn to live with few KwH. Propane stoves and refr are pretty common amongst "off the gridders." Not many people buy a servell propane refr when they can use an elektrick one. One family ran a PTO generator, but the HS aged daughter with long hair was not extremely careful, and not her hair wound up in the PTO. Not pretty. She lived, but was scalped alive. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. The military is a big consumer of flexible solar cells, because they have need to be in "off the grid" places or not being tied into the grid. OK Don via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 2:52 PM: Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Wind ain’t no picnic you know. Wildlife promptly evacuate areas within miles of windfarms. They don’t like the sound of the turbines. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > > Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see > their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. > Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> >> >> In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most >> robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's what's >> driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of >> turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. >> >> "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he >> said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive on >> promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, >> Jr., Bloomberg* >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain > > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence > for themselves." > > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Floyd and Curley violently agree --FT Sent from iPhone > On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Yes, absolutely. I have always been for no gummit intervention in the free > market. No incentives/subsidies/tax breaks for wind, solar, coal, NG, CNG, > propane, petroleum, etc. That said, things like the REA for bringing > lektrick or internet to areas where no private company can justify building > lines has some justification. > > The gummit should get out of areas not specified in the constitution. They > SHOULD mind the business specified in the Constitution, like protecting the > country from all enemies, domestic and foreign. > > > Andrew Strasfogel wrote on 4/29/19 1:06 PM: > > Would you agree to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies as well? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Yes, absolutely. I have always been for no gummit intervention in the free market. No incentives/subsidies/tax breaks for wind, solar, coal, NG, CNG, propane, petroleum, etc. That said, things like the REA for bringing lektrick or internet to areas where no private company can justify building lines has some justification. The gummit should get out of areas not specified in the constitution. They SHOULD mind the business specified in the Constitution, like protecting the country from all enemies, domestic and foreign. Andrew Strasfogel wrote on 4/29/19 1:06 PM: Would you agree to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies as well? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Bergey Windpower is located on the airport in Norman, OK - used to see their test and experimental models all the time when we lived near there. Back then, most of their sales were to developing regions, not the US. On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:56 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most > robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's what's > driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of > turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. > > "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he > said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive on > promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, > Jr., Bloomberg* > > -- OK Don *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Would you agree to get rid of fossil fuel subsidies as well? On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:18 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Did not read, does it list for comparison the various takings from the > taxpayers to make it "cheap?" The utility aspect is pure politics, who > is in the pocket of the utilities to allow them to make the most money. > > Whether or not wind power is viable should come down to what it costs to > install and operate a machine and deliver power to an end user, with all > aspects being equal to other options. > > --FT > > On 4/29/19 2:06 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: > > I think all of us take advantage of tax breaks - it's the American way! > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> In other words: T'ain't practical unless you rob other people at gun > >> point to pay for it. > >> > >> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 12:56 PM: > >>> Curt et al - fyi > >>> RENEWABLESBiggest U.S. market for tiny wind farms isn't the > >> breeziestPublished: > >>> Monday, April 29, 2019 > >>> > >>> Turns out the best place to install a small turbine in the U.S. isn't > the > >>> Plains, where winds blow the strongest, but the Northeast where the > >>> incentives are better. > >>> > >>> The Northeast is home to the most capacity of net-metered wind power — > >> the > >>> small-scale, behind-the-meter kind installed by homes and businesses — > >> with > >>> Massachusetts having the most in the U.S., Energy Information > >>> Administration data show. States in the region offer net-metering > >> programs > >>> that allow customers to install wind turbines and credit them for the > >> power > >>> they supply to the grid. > >>> > >>> In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the > most > >>> robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's > >> what's > >>> driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of > >>> turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. > >>> > >>> "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," > he > >>> said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been > aggressive > >> on > >>> promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald > Porter, > >>> Jr., Bloomberg* > >>> ___ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > --FT > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
Did not read, does it list for comparison the various takings from the taxpayers to make it "cheap?" The utility aspect is pure politics, who is in the pocket of the utilities to allow them to make the most money. Whether or not wind power is viable should come down to what it costs to install and operate a machine and deliver power to an end user, with all aspects being equal to other options. --FT On 4/29/19 2:06 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: I think all of us take advantage of tax breaks - it's the American way! On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: In other words: T'ain't practical unless you rob other people at gun point to pay for it. Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 12:56 PM: Curt et al - fyi RENEWABLESBiggest U.S. market for tiny wind farms isn't the breeziestPublished: Monday, April 29, 2019 Turns out the best place to install a small turbine in the U.S. isn't the Plains, where winds blow the strongest, but the Northeast where the incentives are better. The Northeast is home to the most capacity of net-metered wind power — the small-scale, behind-the-meter kind installed by homes and businesses — with Massachusetts having the most in the U.S., Energy Information Administration data show. States in the region offer net-metering programs that allow customers to install wind turbines and credit them for the power they supply to the grid. In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's what's driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive on promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, Jr., Bloomberg* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
I think all of us take advantage of tax breaks - it's the American way! On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > In other words: T'ain't practical unless you rob other people at gun > point to pay for it. > > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 12:56 PM: > > Curt et al - fyi > > RENEWABLESBiggest U.S. market for tiny wind farms isn't the > breeziestPublished: > > Monday, April 29, 2019 > > > > Turns out the best place to install a small turbine in the U.S. isn't the > > Plains, where winds blow the strongest, but the Northeast where the > > incentives are better. > > > > The Northeast is home to the most capacity of net-metered wind power — > the > > small-scale, behind-the-meter kind installed by homes and businesses — > with > > Massachusetts having the most in the U.S., Energy Information > > Administration data show. States in the region offer net-metering > programs > > that allow customers to install wind turbines and credit them for the > power > > they supply to the grid. > > > > In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most > > robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's > what's > > driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of > > turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. > > > > "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he > > said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive > on > > promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, > > Jr., Bloomberg* > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Cheapest place to install wind power
In other words: T'ain't practical unless you rob other people at gun point to pay for it. Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 4/29/19 12:56 PM: Curt et al - fyi RENEWABLESBiggest U.S. market for tiny wind farms isn't the breeziestPublished: Monday, April 29, 2019 Turns out the best place to install a small turbine in the U.S. isn't the Plains, where winds blow the strongest, but the Northeast where the incentives are better. The Northeast is home to the most capacity of net-metered wind power — the small-scale, behind-the-meter kind installed by homes and businesses — with Massachusetts having the most in the U.S., Energy Information Administration data show. States in the region offer net-metering programs that allow customers to install wind turbines and credit them for the power they supply to the grid. In fact, the Northeast, along with the West Coast, have some of the most robust policies encouraging renewable energy development, and that's what's driving the installations, said Mike Bergey, chief executive officer of turbine supplier Bergey Windpower. "If it was related to wind, Montana or Wyoming would be in the lead," he said, but "New York and Massachusetts in particular have been aggressive on promoting clean energy at both large and small scale." *— Gerald Porter, Jr., Bloomberg* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
