Re: About parallel server
It was DG/UX on DG Aviion Systems, with Clariion storage system. We were sharing filesystems between 2 nodes. Don't know about the rest of DG, but EMC purchased their Clariion storage system unit. Jared On Friday 01 June 2001 14:25, Richard Ji wrote: > A couple of years ago, no vendor has a distributed file system (one that > will let all nodes in a cluster to mount and access the same file system > simultaneously). And that's why we had to use raw device. Maybe DG had it? > So which vendor has it then and who has it now? > > Richard Ji > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC) had functional VAX-Clusters in the early 1980's and did NOT use raw devices. The VAX-Clusters used the same filesystem as stand-alone VAX systems used! So Compaq has it today on their "legacy" VMS systems. Richard Ji wrote: > > A couple of years ago, no vendor has a distributed file system (one that > will let all nodes in a cluster to mount and access the same file system >simultaneously). > And that's why we had to use raw device. Maybe DG had it? So which vendor > has it then and who has it now? > > Richard Ji > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/01/01 12:44PM >>> > On Thursday 31 May 2001 13:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >So whether you are using 7, 8, 8i, 9i you can use > > filesystems for OPS (RAC) if the OS supports multiple > > concurrent mounts on the same filesystem from multiple > > nodes. > > Scott, > > Thanks for answering a question I asked Oracle several > years ago. Tried and tried, could never get an answer. > > We were considering OPS on DG Aviion Systems using > Clariion RAID ( now owned by EMC I believe ) and that > system did share filesystems between nodes. ( OS was DG/UX ) > > Never could get an answer from anyone on whether we > would be required to used raw with this setup. I suspected > that it would not be necessary. > > Now 6 years later, I get my answer. :) > > Jared > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Jared Still > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Richard Ji > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Charlie Mengler Maintenance Warehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10641 Scripps Summit Ct. 858-831-2229 San Diego, CA 92131 Perl is great. It lets you turn line noise into useful code. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Charlie Mengler INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
A couple of years ago, no vendor has a distributed file system (one that will let all nodes in a cluster to mount and access the same file system simultaneously). And that's why we had to use raw device. Maybe DG had it? So which vendor has it then and who has it now? Richard Ji >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/01/01 12:44PM >>> On Thursday 31 May 2001 13:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >So whether you are using 7, 8, 8i, 9i you can use > filesystems for OPS (RAC) if the OS supports multiple > concurrent mounts on the same filesystem from multiple > nodes. Scott, Thanks for answering a question I asked Oracle several years ago. Tried and tried, could never get an answer. We were considering OPS on DG Aviion Systems using Clariion RAID ( now owned by EMC I believe ) and that system did share filesystems between nodes. ( OS was DG/UX ) Never could get an answer from anyone on whether we would be required to used raw with this setup. I suspected that it would not be necessary. Now 6 years later, I get my answer. :) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/01/01 12:44PM >>> On Thursday 31 May 2001 13:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >So whether you are using 7, 8, 8i, 9i you can use > filesystems for OPS (RAC) if the OS supports multiple > concurrent mounts on the same filesystem from multiple > nodes. Scott, Thanks for answering a question I asked Oracle several years ago. Tried and tried, could never get an answer. We were considering OPS on DG Aviion Systems using Clariion RAID ( now owned by EMC I believe ) and that system did share filesystems between nodes. ( OS was DG/UX ) Never could get an answer from anyone on whether we would be required to used raw with this setup. I suspected that it would not be necessary. Now 6 years later, I get my answer. :) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
Jared, We had tried OPS in a test environment on DG Aviion, we were told to go for RAW file system by Oracle and DG (I believe). HTH Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art ! *1 This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. *1 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
On Thursday 31 May 2001 13:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >So whether you are using 7, 8, 8i, 9i you can use > filesystems for OPS (RAC) if the OS supports multiple > concurrent mounts on the same filesystem from multiple > nodes. Scott, Thanks for answering a question I asked Oracle several years ago. Tried and tried, could never get an answer. We were considering OPS on DG Aviion Systems using Clariion RAID ( now owned by EMC I believe ) and that system did share filesystems between nodes. ( OS was DG/UX ) Never could get an answer from anyone on whether we would be required to used raw with this setup. I suspected that it would not be necessary. Now 6 years later, I get my answer. :) Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
Some OPS-capable platforms (Tru64? VAX?) already allow "cooked" files for OPS. Oracle9i will support files for OPS only on certain supported cluster file systems. Veritos has been explicitly mentioned and Veritos people say their cluster file system for parallel server will be available by the time 9i comes out. (Veritos cluster filesystems are already available, but not with OPS support). I have done 7.3 - 8.1.7 OPS on Solaris and AIX. All required raw devices for all control files, redo logs, and datafiles. (setq rantmode ON) Raw devices vs files seems to be a religious issue. I don't know why raw devices get such a bad rap anyway, but it seems most Oracle DBAs don't want to deal with them. In the "old days", raws were real pain - backups required dd instead of cpio/tar, creating raws manually was something of a chore, etc. However, today most backup utilities (e.g. rman, Veritos NetBackup, etc.) really don't care about raw vs filesystem. With logical volume managers, creating raw devices is much easier also. A common complaint is autoextend, but you can actually create, for example, a 2000 MB raw device and create a 500 MB datafile within it and let it autoextend to the end of the raw device. My particular "religion" on this issue is that I would rather have a number of "smaller" datafiles than one large datafile anyway. Granted, moving datafiles around to redistribute I/O between disks or stripe sets is more work, but with good design and physical layout practices, it isn't that bad. I really don't want dozens of distinct sizes for datafiles anyway. A "few" distinct sizes should do and will be a lot more flexible - on raws or on filesystems. I usually build dev and test databases on filesystems and most production databases on raw. Especially anything with a high write to read ratio. Raws also bring a number of advantages that are rarely mentioned. In addition to the often espoused and perhaps somewhat overrated performance considerations, one can't easily "rm" a raw device or accidentally "cp" some other file over one! Many OSs support async I/O on raws, but not on filesystems. If you create raws as contiguous space and expand into it as the datafile grows, it stays contiguous. On filesystems, autoextend often (usually) results in file fragmentation within the filesystem. In my experience, raw datafiles tend to become corrupt MUCH less often than filesystem datafiles. Wasn't there a discussion here recently about "peculiarities" with Quick IO and sparse files (usually TEMP)? It isn't a problem with raws! After a large database server crash, fsck can take forever on UFS, but with a raw device database, its back very fast. (JFS/VxFS/... don't have this same problem though - they have others...). Ad infinitum. I think the real issue is that, to not be a maintenance or performance nightmare, a database built on raw devices requires more upfront planning - a better knowledge of I/O patterns, growth trends, etc. and more thorough performance testing and tuning in laying out the database. Personally, given the option, I would rather do this up front than fight the problems later and be constantly shuffling datafiles around to compensate for less up front planning anyway. OPS has similar issues. In spite of the "propaganda", I'll wager that even 9i RAC will be much less of a pain/problem with a carefully considered OPS (oops! RAC) implementation than with just throwing in a pile of nodes and randomly splattering transactions across them. In previous versions, including 8i, proper planning for an OPS implementation, at least for OLTP, was critical. OPS and raw devices seem to require basically the same (demented? impractical?) mentality and practices - "an ounce of prevention is worth a metric ton of cure". (setq rantmode OFF) -Don Granaman [certifiable OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:22 PM > I have heard rumors that OPS on 9i will allow you to use cooked files. > > User group meeting next week, with a presentation on 9i new features. > I'll ask > > Rachel > > > >From: "Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: About parallel server > >Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:06:38 -0800 > > > >Dick, > > > > What are you using for your source for this information? > >This does not jibe with other things I have read. > >If your not going to use a shared raw device for > >the online redo logs, how can one instance to instance
Re: About parallel server
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:17:30AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ray > I think, you are referring to RAC, Real Application Cluster. Which > is same as OPS with cache fusion for all scenarios. Please see my previous > mail thread with the same subject.. -- index oracle-l The archive for this mailing list exists, but cannot be accessed. This may be due to the server being down or some other network problem. Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for further assistance. Sorry for the inconvenience. -- anybody got a copy of this thread I can borrow. I'll give it back! === Ray Stell [EMAIL PROTECTED] (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC28^D -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Stell INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
Fernando, If your current resources are limited and the app is partitioned, you should have very few problems implementing the App in OPS (famous last words). If HA is a requirement and fast failover times OPS is a good pick. Just make sure the ends justify the means. Some people have good experiences with OPS and others may not have had great experiences. Scott > > We have a couple of independent applications running over the same instance > now (it's better to do it because our resources cant' support two instances > over the same machine), we think if we use parallel server, we can make > "partition" of this applications, one for each node or someting like that... > And, of course, we are thinking about automatic failover and high > availability over parallel server... > > -- > Fernando O. Papa > DBA > El Sitio - Infraestructura > (54-11) 4339-3854 > > > -Mensaje original- > > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de Rachel > > Carmichael > > Enviado el: miércoles, 30 de mayo de 2001 23:50 > > Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Asunto: Re:About parallel server > > > > > > > > Even more importantly, if you are planning on implementing > > parallel server > > just "to increase your processing power" then you are going to be in > > trouble! > > > > If you haven't specifically designed your application for > > parallel server, > > you can end up DECREASING performance by increasing locking and pings. > > > > This is not something you do lightly once an app has been > > installed into > > production. > > > > Rachel > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: Re:About parallel server > > >Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:48:03 -0800 > > > > > >Fernando, > > > > > > Replies included in your original mail, but in addition: > > > > > > Parallel server is a separately priced option from > > Oracle and it is > > >pricey. > > >Second you may need specific software from you OS vendor to > > coordinate the > > >file > > >sharing between the servers, again an additional expense. > > > > > >Dick Goulet > > > > > >Reply Separator > > >Author: "Fernando Papa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Date: 5/30/2001 2:07 PM > > > > > > > > >Hi everybody! > > > > > >I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have > > only one instance > > >"stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch > > to parallel > > >server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are > > using it, and > > >we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > > > > >The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > > >questions about it: > > > > > >1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo > > logs & data > > >files? > > >--> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked > > file system. > > > > > >2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > > >import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > > >--> To the best of my knowledge your going to have to > > rebuild the database > > >from > > >scratch so imp/exp is your only option. > > > > > >3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the > > same of one > > >single > > >instance (no parallel)? > > >--> Yes and NO, raw devices run a little faster than cooked > > files since the > > >OS's > > >buffer cache is not in the middle. > > > > > >4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? > > any link? I > > >try > > >to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > > >--> Working with raw devices is very different from cooked > > file systems. > > >If you > > >don't have an experienced Unix admin you could be in serious trouble. > > > > > >5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode > > and copy with > > >cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > > >--> Rman can handle the backups, but a file system level backup is > > >different. > > >CP does not work anymore, nor does fbackup, or tar. You'll need > > >specialized > > >software for the purpose. > > > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > > > >-- > > >Fernando O. Papa > > >DBA > > >El Sitio - Infraestructura > > >(54-11) 4339-3854 > > > > > >-- > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > >-- > > >Author: Fernando Papa > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / > > Mailing Lists > > > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > >also send the HELP command for other infor
Re: About parallel server
Ray, Oracle9i RAC (Real Application Clusters) is or was (depending on your perspective) Oracle Parallel Server. Compaq is working with Oracle to pre-install and ship Oracle9i on there NT boxes (not sure about TRU64 or OpenVMS platforms), so you just turn it on and it works. Oracle9i replication is another animal all together. There are some major changes to way you can replicate in 9i. Scott > > > I have heard from iouga attendees that there was is something > called "Rack" from oracle/compaq on the horizon with 9i which > is the next replication solution. Can folks comment on this? > What is the architecture and how does this play with oracle? > Is this just an OPS on some alphastation? Our compaq sales > droid didn't know the answer. Thanks. > > > > On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:07:10PM -0800, Fernando Papa wrote: > > > > Hi everybody! > > > > I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance > > "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel > > server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and > > we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > > > The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > > questions about it: > > > > 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data > > files? > > 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > > import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > > 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single > > instance (no parallel)? > > 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try > > to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > > 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with > > cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > -- > > Fernando O. Papa > > DBA > > El Sitio - Infraestructura > > (54-11) 4339-3854 > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Fernando Papa > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > === > Ray Stell [EMAIL PROTECTED] (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC28^D > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Ray Stell > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
Ray I think, you are referring to RAC, Real Application Cluster. Which is same as OPS with cache fusion for all scenarios. Please see my previous mail thread with the same subject.. Thanks Riyaj "Re-yas" Shamsudeen Certified Oracle DBA i2 technologies www.i2.com Ray Stell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/31/01 11:36 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: About parallel server I have heard from iouga attendees that there was is something called "Rack" from oracle/compaq on the horizon with 9i which is the next replication solution. Can folks comment on this? What is the architecture and how does this play with oracle? Is this just an OPS on some alphastation? Our compaq sales droid didn't know the answer. Thanks. On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:07:10PM -0800, Fernando Papa wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance > "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel > server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and > we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > questions about it: > > 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data > files? > 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single > instance (no parallel)? > 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try > to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with > cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > Fernando O. Papa > DBA > El Sitio - Infraestructura > (54-11) 4339-3854 > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Fernando Papa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- === Ray Stell [EMAIL PROTECTED] (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC 28^D -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Stell INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
Rachel, OPS or in 9i RAC (Hate name changes confuses everyone) raw devices are a requirement of the OS not Oracle. So whether you are using 7, 8, 8i, 9i you can use filesystems for OPS (RAC) if the OS supports multiple concurrent mounts on the same filesystem from multiple nodes. This is the case in OpenVMS and Compaq TRU64 v5.1 . If you use other OS's then the only way to share files is through raw devices. Now Veritas has their Cluster Files System(CFS) that allows multiple file systems to be mounted concurrently by multiple nodes. There is certification being conducted by Veritas and Oracle to support OPS in this configuration. There is more information about Veritas Cluster softerware at there site http://www.veritas.com/us/aboutus/pressroom/2001/01-05-15 -2.html . There is also some other information on VOS (Veritas, Oracle, Sun) at http://www.vosInitiative.com/ . Scott > I have heard rumors that OPS on 9i will allow you to use cooked files. > > User group meeting next week, with a presentation on 9i new features. > I'll ask > > Rachel > > > >From: "Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: About parallel server > >Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:06:38 -0800 > > > >Dick, > > > > What are you using for your source for this information? > >This does not jibe with other things I have read. > >If your not going to use a shared raw device for > >the online redo logs, how can one instance to instance recovery > >for another instance that fails? > > > > > >R. Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Meddle not in the affairs of troff, > > for it is subtle and quick to anger. > > > > > > > --> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked > > > file system. > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Rachel Carmichael > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
I have heard rumors that OPS on 9i will allow you to use cooked files. User group meeting next week, with a presentation on 9i new features. I'll ask Rachel >From: "Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: About parallel server >Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:06:38 -0800 > >Dick, > > What are you using for your source for this information? >This does not jibe with other things I have read. >If your not going to use a shared raw device for >the online redo logs, how can one instance to instance recovery >for another instance that fails? > > >R. Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Meddle not in the affairs of troff, > for it is subtle and quick to anger. > > > > --> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked > > file system. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: About parallel server
I have heard from iouga attendees that there was is something called "Rack" from oracle/compaq on the horizon with 9i which is the next replication solution. Can folks comment on this? What is the architecture and how does this play with oracle? Is this just an OPS on some alphastation? Our compaq sales droid didn't know the answer. Thanks. On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 02:07:10PM -0800, Fernando Papa wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance > "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel > server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and > we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > questions about it: > > 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data > files? > 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single > instance (no parallel)? > 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try > to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with > cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > Fernando O. Papa > DBA > El Sitio - Infraestructura > (54-11) 4339-3854 > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Fernando Papa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- === Ray Stell [EMAIL PROTECTED] (540) 231-4109 KE4TJC28^D -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Stell INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
We have a couple of independent applications running over the same instance now (it's better to do it because our resources cant' support two instances over the same machine), we think if we use parallel server, we can make "partition" of this applications, one for each node or someting like that... And, of course, we are thinking about automatic failover and high availability over parallel server... -- Fernando O. Papa DBA El Sitio - Infraestructura (54-11) 4339-3854 > -Mensaje original- > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de Rachel > Carmichael > Enviado el: miércoles, 30 de mayo de 2001 23:50 > Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Asunto: Re:About parallel server > > > > Even more importantly, if you are planning on implementing > parallel server > just "to increase your processing power" then you are going to be in > trouble! > > If you haven't specifically designed your application for > parallel server, > you can end up DECREASING performance by increasing locking and pings. > > This is not something you do lightly once an app has been > installed into > production. > > Rachel > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re:About parallel server > >Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:48:03 -0800 > > > >Fernando, > > > > Replies included in your original mail, but in addition: > > > > Parallel server is a separately priced option from > Oracle and it is > >pricey. > >Second you may need specific software from you OS vendor to > coordinate the > >file > >sharing between the servers, again an additional expense. > > > >Dick Goulet > > > >Reply Separator > >Author: "Fernando Papa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: 5/30/2001 2:07 PM > > > > > >Hi everybody! > > > >I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have > only one instance > >"stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch > to parallel > >server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are > using it, and > >we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > > >The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > >questions about it: > > > >1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo > logs & data > >files? > >--> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked > file system. > > > >2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > >import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > >--> To the best of my knowledge your going to have to > rebuild the database > >from > >scratch so imp/exp is your only option. > > > >3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the > same of one > >single > >instance (no parallel)? > >--> Yes and NO, raw devices run a little faster than cooked > files since the > >OS's > >buffer cache is not in the middle. > > > >4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? > any link? I > >try > >to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > >--> Working with raw devices is very different from cooked > file systems. > >If you > >don't have an experienced Unix admin you could be in serious trouble. > > > >5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode > and copy with > >cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > >--> Rman can handle the backups, but a file system level backup is > >different. > >CP does not work anymore, nor does fbackup, or tar. You'll need > >specialized > >software for the purpose. > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >-- > >Fernando O. Papa > >DBA > >El Sitio - Infraestructura > >(54-11) 4339-3854 > > > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: Fernando Papa > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / > Mailing Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / > Mailing Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send th
RE: About parallel server
Title: RE: About parallel server Dick, What are you using for your source for this information? This does not jibe with other things I have read. If your not going to use a shared raw device for the online redo logs, how can one instance to instance recovery for another instance that fails? R. Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meddle not in the affairs of troff, for it is subtle and quick to anger. > --> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked > file system.
Re: About parallel server
Fernando, You will need cluster manager and shared disk drives to build this cluster. You need at least Oracle 8.1.6 or 8.1.7 Solaris 2.6 Sun Cluster Manager 2.2 Some volume manager preferably Veritas 2.2.1+ or 3.0.4+ Solaris 8 (2.8) Sun Cluster Manager 2.2 or 3.0 ( If you use SC 3.0 then you will need to apply a patch for bug #1289644 and you are limited to 2 nodes) Some volume manager preferably Veritas 3.0.4+ Solaris 7 (2.7) is not supported for OPS The Shared disk environment can use D1000 disk arrays using SCSI. The interconnect can use SUN's SCI interface. After all that is setup you will need to get the Enterprise version of Oracle and install the OPS option. The OPS option will not display until the cluster is configured and running and any necessary patches applied. Now to answer you questions 1) Yes raw devices are mandatory unless you are running OpenVMS or Compaq Tru64 version 5.1 2) The UNIX "dd" command works on transferring datafile to raw devices. I have also found that the cp command works on copying files to raw devices and vica versa when using Veritas as the volume manager. Then you probably will need to re-create the control file to change the datafile locations and change MAXINSTANCES. 3)In theory if you start the instance with PARALLEL_SERVER=false you should not be using PCM locks. 4) You need a volume manager to manage your raw devices. 5) It doesn't matter whether the database is OPS non-OPS raw or cooked, hot backups work the same way. You put a tablespace into hot backup mode and copy the datafiles. You just have to use the "dd" command instead of "cp" or use RMAN. Also Veritas allows you to "cp" raw devices. Also keep in mind if the application doesn't scale in your current environment then it won't scale in OPS. You will just end up with more performance issues. You will also need to buy licenses for all these products as well. Good Luck, Scott > > Hi everybody! > > I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance > "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel > server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and > we think it's good for increase our processing power. > > The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of > questions about it: > > 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data > files? > 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? > import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? > 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single > instance (no parallel)? > 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try > to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... > 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with > cp... maybe it's time to use rman? > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > Fernando O. Papa > DBA > El Sitio - Infraestructura > (54-11) 4339-3854 > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Fernando Papa > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
Title: RE: About parallel server Your point 1: Unless things have changed redo and controlfiles must be raw. When I took the OPS course several years ago and worked with OPS we needed the redo/controlfiles to be on raw so that one instance could recover when another instance failed. Your point 5: The Unix command "dd" will do raw. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:About parallel server Fernando, Replies included in your original mail, but in addition: Parallel server is a separately priced option from Oracle and it is pricey. Second you may need specific software from you OS vendor to coordinate the file sharing between the servers, again an additional expense. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: "Fernando Papa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 5/30/2001 2:07 PM Hi everybody! I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and we think it's good for increase our processing power. The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of questions about it: 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data files? --> Data files yes, redo and control files can be on cooked file system. 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? --> To the best of my knowledge your going to have to rebuild the database from scratch so imp/exp is your only option. 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single instance (no parallel)? --> Yes and NO, raw devices run a little faster than cooked files since the OS's buffer cache is not in the middle. 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... --> Working with raw devices is very different from cooked file systems. If you don't have an experienced Unix admin you could be in serious trouble. 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with cp... maybe it's time to use rman? --> Rman can handle the backups, but a file system level backup is different. CP does not work anymore, nor does fbackup, or tar. You'll need specialized software for the purpose. Thanks in advance! -- Fernando O. Papa DBA El Sitio - Infraestructura (54-11) 4339-3854 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fernando Papa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: About parallel server
Title: RE: About parallel server Several things: You will have to re-license (your honest aren't you) for the faster machines and OPS; Build the new database on raw and export/import. Maybe "dd" would get your datafiles from cooked ufs to raw but it's to much FUD for me; You can backup using the "dd" command, SQLBackTrack (BMC), or RMAN (I think RMAN now support OPS but you will need to check); If you do not build your application with OPS in mind you will be slower on two machines with 4 cpu's each than you would be with one machine with 4 cpu's. Read up on block pinging, reverse key indexes, PCM locks, and free lists. You MUST take the OPS course from Oracle Education. The instructor is Scott Hiesey who is the best damn instructor Oracle has. He is also an infrequent contributor to this list. Read it, learn it, know it, & live it -> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/oraclepp/ and http://www.oradoc.com/ora817/paraserv.817/index.htm I'm sure some people use and like OPS (my hats of to you) but I have and from a business point of view would never do it again. If after all that you still want to use OPS, then...go...right...ahead. BOL -Original Message- From: Fernando Papa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: About parallel server Hi everybody! I have some questions about parallel server. Now we have only one instance "stand-alone" (no parallel), but we are thinking to switch to parallel server because we have a couple of sparc 3500 and nobody are using it, and we think it's good for increase our processing power. The problem is I didn't work with parallel server and I have a lot of questions about it: 1) Is mandatory to use raw devices for control files, redo logs & data files? 2) How we transfer our cooked data files to raw devices data files? import/export? or exist another better (fast) method? 3) If I start with only one node, performance will be the same of one single instance (no parallel)? 4) Somebody know how to work with raw devices under solaris? any link? I try to found someting in metalink but there's no samples... 5) What about backup? I can't put tablespaces in backup mode and copy with cp... maybe it's time to use rman? Thanks in advance! -- Fernando O. Papa DBA El Sitio - Infraestructura (54-11) 4339-3854 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fernando Papa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
