RE: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
[snip] My goal was to provide an area that fosters stretching PHP. Big projects, unusual projects, weird hacks... all kinds of advanced stuff. I have thought that providing an "advanced" area might make people more likely to post stuff like "Look at this..." and provide some intriguing discussion and such. Not that it's impossible with php-general, but reading 150 posts (or at least the subject) makes it easy for that type of thing to get lost. [/snip] Have you paid a visit to phpcommunity.org? You might find something there -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
what do you guys think of using a tag for discussion messages? This way people that don't want to weed out lengthy discussions and attachments etc can filter them out of list messages. A tag such as in the subject line? Just my two cents. Larry -Original Message- From: Marc Greenstock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 7:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list! Interesting topic, However I don't necessarily agree that newbie's wont get their question answered. There are a lot of helpfully people out there, a lot of them are advanced in their programing but find the satisfaction of helping, or mentoring someone into advanced programming who is less advanced. I know that when i started I posted messages at phpbuilder in the newbie area. I found more often than not I would get a response from someone who cared, and would treat a newbie for what he or she is rather than a just a plain old idiot. My point is; yes advanced users would be separated from beginners, but most of the questions asked in the beginners list would be answered by advanced programmers looking for a bit of 'fuzzy wazzies' :) Two thumbs up for the idea. Marc Ryan A wrote: >>This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. >>Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to >>answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the >>advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a >>self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that >>both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. > > >>The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you >>think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. > > >>-Rasmus > > > True, When I started learning PHP one of the guys who answered most of the > questions > for me and a lot of people was Capt John Holmes, now that dude knows a > load of > php (I mean that as a complement). If there was an advanced list he would > probably be > in it and very unlikely that he would also be in the "newbie" list to help > which would have > made my learning curve that much harder. Some other guys who are really > helpful and > advanced are Jason, Chris, Chris, David to name a few..take all of them out > and put them > in the advanced list...and the newbies, not-so-newbies etc will follow just > coz we have no > choice when we run into problems. If only newbies and average knowledge > dudes are in > the "not advance list" it wont work coz the blind leading the blind does not > work. > > My $0.2 > > Cheers, > -Ryan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
Interesting topic, However I don't necessarily agree that newbie's wont get their question answered. There are a lot of helpfully people out there, a lot of them are advanced in their programing but find the satisfaction of helping, or mentoring someone into advanced programming who is less advanced. I know that when i started I posted messages at phpbuilder in the newbie area. I found more often than not I would get a response from someone who cared, and would treat a newbie for what he or she is rather than a just a plain old idiot. My point is; yes advanced users would be separated from beginners, but most of the questions asked in the beginners list would be answered by advanced programmers looking for a bit of 'fuzzy wazzies' :) Two thumbs up for the idea. Marc Ryan A wrote: This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. -Rasmus True, When I started learning PHP one of the guys who answered most of the questions for me and a lot of people was Capt John Holmes, now that dude knows a load of php (I mean that as a complement). If there was an advanced list he would probably be in it and very unlikely that he would also be in the "newbie" list to help which would have made my learning curve that much harder. Some other guys who are really helpful and advanced are Jason, Chris, Chris, David to name a few..take all of them out and put them in the advanced list...and the newbies, not-so-newbies etc will follow just coz we have no choice when we run into problems. If only newbies and average knowledge dudes are in the "not advance list" it wont work coz the blind leading the blind does not work. My $0.2 Cheers, -Ryan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
Sounds like you want to have more of a discussion list rather than help list.. which is not a bad idea, regardless of expertise. Jason Galen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello All, > > You do make some excellent points. Maybe an advanced list isn't the > greatest idea. But at least listen to what I had envisioned: > > My goal was to provide an area that fosters stretching PHP. Big > projects, unusual projects, weird hacks... all kinds of advanced stuff. > I have thought that providing an "advanced" area might make people more > likely to post stuff like "Look at this..." and provide some intriguing > discussion and such. Not that it's impossible with php-general, but > reading 150 posts (or at least the subject) makes it easy for that type > of thing to get lost. > > Obviously, the community doesn't think this is a good idea, and I do > see validity in many of your points, so I'll drop this topic unless > someone else wants to pursue it. > > -Galen > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
Hello All, You do make some excellent points. Maybe an advanced list isn't the greatest idea. But at least listen to what I had envisioned: My goal was to provide an area that fosters stretching PHP. Big projects, unusual projects, weird hacks... all kinds of advanced stuff. I have thought that providing an "advanced" area might make people more likely to post stuff like "Look at this..." and provide some intriguing discussion and such. Not that it's impossible with php-general, but reading 150 posts (or at least the subject) makes it easy for that type of thing to get lost. Obviously, the community doesn't think this is a good idea, and I do see validity in many of your points, so I'll drop this topic unless someone else wants to pursue it. -Galen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
I definately agree with Rasmus, seperation will only cuase migration to the advanced list anyways, you need 'advanced' users helping the 'less-advanced' users. This is the purpose of the list. Jason Rasmus Lerdorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Galen wrote: > > > From my earlier post, I've had a number of people email me, on and off > > list, that there isn't much in the way of an "advanced" php mailing > > list. It also sounds like at least a few people are quite interested in > > the possibility. > > > > Who runs the php official mailing lists? Can we ask them to start a > > php-advanced list? Give it a description like "Ready to take you coding > > to the next level? Got questions about high-level PHP code? This is the > > list for you." Redirect people asking questions like "What is SQL" and > > "What's wrong with this code" or "How do I " (which > > a search in the manual would have found the function to do this) to the > > php-general list. That would leave our group free to discuss meaty > > things and really get somewhere. > > > > Anybody else interested in this type of list? > > This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. > Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to > answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the > advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a > self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that > both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. > > The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you > think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. > > -Rasmus > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
> This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. > Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to > answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the > advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a > self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that > both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. >The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you >think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. >-Rasmus True, When I started learning PHP one of the guys who answered most of the questions for me and a lot of people was Capt John Holmes, now that dude knows a load of php (I mean that as a complement). If there was an advanced list he would probably be in it and very unlikely that he would also be in the "newbie" list to help which would have made my learning curve that much harder. Some other guys who are really helpful and advanced are Jason, Chris, Chris, David to name a few..take all of them out and put them in the advanced list...and the newbies, not-so-newbies etc will follow just coz we have no choice when we run into problems. If only newbies and average knowledge dudes are in the "not advance list" it wont work coz the blind leading the blind does not work. My $0.2 Cheers, -Ryan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
On Sat, 2004-03-06 at 01:57, Galen wrote: > Who runs the php official mailing lists? Can we ask them to start a > php-advanced list? Give it a description like "Ready to take you coding > to the next level? Got questions about high-level PHP code? This is the > list for you." Redirect people asking questions like "What is SQL" and > "What's wrong with this code" or "How do I " (which > a search in the manual would have found the function to do this) to the > php-general list. That would leave our group free to discuss meaty > things and really get somewhere. It should be obvious why this will not work. And, why should this be an issue? You are free to participate and choose what discussions you want to be a part of (unless your delete key is broken) as well as discuss whatever topics you want (OT), advanced, intermediate, or beginner. SO what's your real point? Are you annoyed by questions that you think are beneath you or what? -- Brian V Bonini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. I agree totally with rusmus here, sorry but what make you so elite ? Where here together, i'm sure you came here like myself along time ago as a newby, do your bit and show your "advanced knowledge" by answering questions. If u dont want anyone emailing you offlist just say so, dont get a huff about it later ;) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
On Saturday 06 March 2004 14:57, Galen wrote: > From my earlier post, I've had a number of people email me, on and off > list, that there isn't much in the way of an "advanced" php mailing > list. It also sounds like at least a few people are quite interested in > the possibility. The only way you can run more than one list on a similar topic is if: i) You have a clear distinction on what exactly should be discussed on which particular list ii) List members apply rigorous self-policing to (a) refuse to answer off-topic posts (b) ask posters of said posts to re-post on the appropriate list Otherwise one of two things will probably happen: 1) The people who are experienced and are most able to question the more "advanced" questions will be sick and tired of answering the FAQs and "newbie" questions and may only subscribe to the "advanced" list. This means the "newbie" list will be in the hands of newbies and thus newbies will be asking and answering "newbie" questions. 2) The more likely case would be that because it is pretty difficult to draw the line between "newbie" questions and "advanced" questions there will be even more cross-posting. Witness the amount of DB-related, solely Windows-related, and installation-related questions that appear on this list. That is despite the fact that those issues are covered by their own lists. > Who runs the php official mailing lists? Can we ask them to start a > php-advanced list? Give it a description like "Ready to take you coding > to the next level? Got questions about high-level PHP code? This is the > list for you." Redirect people asking questions like "What is SQL" and > "What's wrong with this code" or "How do I " (which > a search in the manual would have found the function to do this) to the > php-general list. That would leave our group free to discuss meaty > things and really get somewhere. The crux of the matter is who decides what are "meaty", "advanced" things? IMO 99% of so called newbie questions are answered in the manual, user comments in the manual, FAQs, list archives, and Google. So to run a "newbie" list one would only have to auto-post the above list of resources to the list every few minutes, hopefully the newbies will get the idea very quickly and learn to solve the simple problems on their own. Then they can subscribe to the "advanced" list for discussions on problems not answered in the above list of resources. > Anybody else interested in this type of list? It will only work if there is: (a) a clear definition of "advanced" topics -- pretty difficult to define (b) some kind of moderation So if you can solve those two problems then yeah, maybe. -- Jason Wong -> Gremlins Associates -> www.gremlins.biz Open Source Software Systems Integrators * Web Design & Hosting * Internet & Intranet Applications Development * -- Search the list archives before you post http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general -- /* Plus ,ca change, plus c'est la m^eme chose. [The more things change, the more they remain the same.] -- Alphonse Karr, "Les Gu^epes" */ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Galen wrote: > From my earlier post, I've had a number of people email me, on and off > list, that there isn't much in the way of an "advanced" php mailing > list. It also sounds like at least a few people are quite interested in > the possibility. > > Who runs the php official mailing lists? Can we ask them to start a > php-advanced list? Give it a description like "Ready to take you coding > to the next level? Got questions about high-level PHP code? This is the > list for you." Redirect people asking questions like "What is SQL" and > "What's wrong with this code" or "How do I " (which > a search in the manual would have found the function to do this) to the > php-general list. That would leave our group free to discuss meaty > things and really get somewhere. > > Anybody else interested in this type of list? This has come up many times before and I really don't think it will work. Splitting advanced users from beginners means that there will be nobody to answer the beginner questions which means they will get posted to the advanced list where the people with the answers are. It is a self-defeating separation. Having everyone in one big lump means that both camps and all the camps in between learn from each other. The other question is who decides what is advanced? Chances are what you think is advanced may seem trivial to me, or vice-versa. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Let's start a php-advanced list!
From my earlier post, I've had a number of people email me, on and off list, that there isn't much in the way of an "advanced" php mailing list. It also sounds like at least a few people are quite interested in the possibility. Who runs the php official mailing lists? Can we ask them to start a php-advanced list? Give it a description like "Ready to take you coding to the next level? Got questions about high-level PHP code? This is the list for you." Redirect people asking questions like "What is SQL" and "What's wrong with this code" or "How do I " (which a search in the manual would have found the function to do this) to the php-general list. That would leave our group free to discuss meaty things and really get somewhere. Anybody else interested in this type of list? -Galen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
