Re: [R] R Founding
Hello all, After many e-mails and comments, I made corrections to my post on the topic of R and funding. I hope this does a better service to the R community: http://www.r-statistics.com/2010/09/open-source-and-money-%E2%80%93-why-paying-r-developers-might-not-always-help-the-project/ Sorry for having too many exclamation marks on my original post. Best, Tal Contact Details:--- Contact me: tal.gal...@gmail.com | 972-52-7275845 Read me: www.talgalili.com (Hebrew) | www.biostatistics.co.il (Hebrew) | www.r-statistics.com (English) -- On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On 09/17/2010 12:14 AM, Jeremy Miles wrote: I know from organizing a conference in Germany that the only really good way was and is ordinary money transfer via BIC and IBAN numbers. Unfortunately, this system is pretty unknown in the US. Europeans can easily use money transfer to the R foundation. Paypal? Many open source projects have a 'donate with paypal' button. Jeremy As far as I remember, this requires that a real person opens the account, and takes on the associated tax issues. It may be different for US-based projects. Another option is to get the hosting institutions to accept credit cards, but they tend to balk at the transaction costs (with the result that conference organizers get driven to conference agencies with much greater handling fees...) But seriously, even Springer can do wire transfers nowadays. Maybe we should just wait for the US banks to join the 21st century? -- Peter Dalgaard Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Phone: (+45)38153501 Email: pd@cbs.dk Priv: pda...@gmail.com __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 17/09/10 08:38, Peter Dalgaard wrote: On 09/17/2010 12:14 AM, Jeremy Miles wrote: I know from organizing a conference in Germany that the only really good way was and is ordinary money transfer via BIC and IBAN numbers. Unfortunately, this system is pretty unknown in the US. Europeans can easily use money transfer to the R foundation. Paypal? Many open source projects have a 'donate with paypal' button. Jeremy As far as I remember, this requires that a real person opens the account, and takes on the associated tax issues. It may be different for US-based projects. Another option is to get the hosting institutions to accept credit cards, but they tend to balk at the transaction costs (with the result that conference organizers get driven to conference agencies with much greater handling fees...) But seriously, even Springer can do wire transfers nowadays. Maybe we should just wait for the US banks to join the 21st century? 1) I agree Jaroslaw - you can not buy the motivation you get from participants who are doing it for the love of it, but especially now, in tweaking out issues like memory usage and multicore, which effectively are issues with which the user is only indirectly confronted (Wow - in this release I can load a data.frame of 3GB... That's brilliant) would be very suitable to be done by paid developers who have long working expertise in these fields. I agree that the further development on the outside (cli, packages, ...) will be most effectively done as it is now - - by enthusiasts --- It worked so far, and why change it? Especially as the main problems seem to be with the internal internals. 2) I just looked at GRASS and qgis - both have donate buttons ( see http://grass.fbk.eu/donation.php and http://www.qgis.org/en/sponsorship.html ). Foundations to GRASS are managed through the Italien OSGeo Chapter. Maybe something similar would be an option for R as well? 3) Funding not only has to contribute to financing coding, but also to organise conferences, support participants, organise courses, etc. Cheers, Rainer - -- Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Natural Sciences Building Office Suite 2039 Stellenbosch University Main Campus, Merriman Avenue Stellenbosch South Africa Tel:+33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +27 - (0)8 39 47 90 42 Fax (SA): +27 - (0)8 65 16 27 82 Fax (D) : +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 Fax (FR): +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 email: rai...@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkyTE8MACgkQoYgNqgF2egquPQCbBGUve3/cLj6focACw7OFHrBx uPkAnjM2r2r1crizQJKKMxKInMQM5/2Y =dlem -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
Hi, I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I think this is a great idea! (I emailed to the address on the R page to that effect two days ago :) ) From the other replies, it seems there are three broad groups of obstacles: (1) Figure out the way to do it -- PayPal would be best for international users, but there are now alternatives to PayPal such as Moneybookers, who might do the same thing for those who want to pay and might be better for the recipient -- I don't know. (2) What the money is used for (3) Convince the people who can make the decision, i.e. the executives of the R foundation. I think (2) is a fake problem. I for one would not care if the money I donate is used for something I never use, or is even used inefficiently. I gain so much from R from other people's work, I would see my donation as a gift to them, and they could do with that gift what they want to. They could go have lots of beer, for all I care (unless it gets in the way of writing R, of course :) ) But one way around (3) might be even to have package developers accept donations for packages. Is there a way to take this off the r-help list to try to tackle this as a project? Maybe set up a small Google Group? Marianne BTW after reading in this thread about the donation form and the possbility to do IBAN, I went back to r-project.org and then found the link how to donate. I had not seen this when I looked a few days ago. You can say I'm stupid and didn't look hard enough, but from a usability/ marketing perspective this means even this cumbersome possibility is not salient enough at the moment. -- Marianne Promberger PhD, King's College London http://promberger.info R version 2.11.1 (2010-05-31) Ubuntu 9.04 __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
I am a poor student, and would gladly donate 20ish bucks if it would help. R continues to make me more productive. Thanks for all of the good work! On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:49 AM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Stephen Sefick | Auburn University | | Department of Biological Sciences | | 331 Funchess Hall | | Auburn, Alabama | | 36849 | |___| | sas0...@auburn.edu | | http://www.auburn.edu/~sas0025 | |___| Let's not spend our time and resources thinking about things that are so little or so large that all they really do for us is puff us up and make us feel like gods. We are mammals, and have not exhausted the annoying little problems of being mammals. -K. Mullis A big computer, a complex algorithm and a long time does not equal science. -Robert Gentleman __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On 16/09/2010 6:49 AM, jaropis wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Sure, I'd love to have $4M, but writing this to the R-help list isn't going to bring it in. You should convince the executive of the R Foundation. The co-Presidents are Ross Ihaka and Robert Gentleman. Duncan Murdoch __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
I mailed a check for an R Foundation membership almost a year ago, along with the form. In US dollars, corrected by the then-current Euro exchange rate. It has never been cashed. Christopher W. Ryan, MD SUNY Upstate Medical University Clinical Campus at Binghamton 425 Robinson Street, Binghamton, NY 13904 cryanatbinghamtondotedu Observation is a more powerful force than you could possibly reckon. The invisible, the overlooked, and the unobserved are the most in danger of reaching the end of the spectrum. They lose the last of their light. From there, anything can happen . . . [God, in Joan of Arcadia, episode entitled, The Uncertainty Principle.] stephen sefick wrote: I am a poor student, and would gladly donate 20ish bucks if it would help. R continues to make me more productive. Thanks for all of the good work! __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
I cannot speak for the R Foundation, but you know, getting a US check into money is roughly 20$ fees (at least in Germany, don't know the typical Austrian conditions). I know from organizing a conference in Germany that the only really good way was and is ordinary money transfer via BIC and IBAN numbers. Unfortunately, this system is pretty unknown in the US. Europeans can easily use money transfer to the R foundation. Credit card bookings are already rather expensive and even more expensive if you go for online processing rather than manual Fax processing (I do not know why the credit card companies prefer Fax), checks less than several hundred euros do not make sense at all. Best wishes, Uwe Ligges On 16.09.2010 15:49, Christopher W. Ryan wrote: I mailed a check for an R Foundation membership almost a year ago, along with the form. In US dollars, corrected by the then-current Euro exchange rate. It has never been cashed. Christopher W. Ryan, MD SUNY Upstate Medical University Clinical Campus at Binghamton 425 Robinson Street, Binghamton, NY 13904 cryanatbinghamtondotedu Observation is a more powerful force than you could possibly reckon. The invisible, the overlooked, and the unobserved are the most in danger of reaching the end of the spectrum. They lose the last of their light. From there, anything can happen . . . [God, in Joan of Arcadia, episode entitled, The Uncertainty Principle.] stephen sefick wrote: I am a poor student, and would gladly donate 20ish bucks if it would help. R continues to make me more productive. Thanks for all of the good work! __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:49 AM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start This is a nice idea, and I agree that the current donation system is cumbersome (even for direct bank transfers, a letter must be mailed requesting the relevant information). However, it takes time and effort to create a website and provide convenient ways to donate. Further, since this would be money and going to the R Foundation, members from that would have to be involved---these are people whose time is already heavily taxed (no pun intended). Generally, before people will put effort into something, they want some degree of confidence that it will be worth it, *If* the userbase of R is over 2 million *there will surely be* 100,000 [emphasis mine] may not provide it. I also suspect there would be some logistical issues that could be rather dicey (e.g., Who do you pay? How do you pay them? How much do you pay? and all the hurt feelings that can ensue if one or more individuals feel slighted in some way). I imagine the process would go something like: 1) Get a rough plan of how this all might work 2) Drum up users and support 3) Create a proposal detailing current estimates of support and providing several options for receiving it 4) Take said proposal to powers that be at R Foundation 5) Repeat 2 3 until everyone who needs to be convinced, is convinced. 6) Enact plan 7) Follow up 8) Duncan (and the rest of R Core / R Foundation) get their $4M For the record, you could count me in for #2. Josh coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. -- Joshua Wiley Ph.D. Student, Health Psychology University of California, Los Angeles http://www.joshuawiley.com/ __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). If you are trying to smear Revolution, then consider: Revolution has given back in a number of ways: supporting the useR conference, assisting R core with getting R to build on 64-bit Windows systems, bug fixes, releasing some open source packages, a very fine blog from which I have learned some quite useful information, and helping R gain some needed credibility in the media and business worlds. Not to mention the stainless steel water bottle they handed out at useR. :-) All of these cost money and benefit R, even if the dollars themselves don't flow to the R foundation. Kevin Wright [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On 16/09/2010 3:29 PM, Kevin Wright wrote: I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). If you are trying to smear Revolution, then consider: Revolution has given back in a number of ways: supporting the useR conference, assisting R core with getting R to build on 64-bit Windows systems, bug fixes, releasing some open source packages, a very fine blog from which I have learned some quite useful information, and helping R gain some needed credibility in the media and business worlds. Not to mention the stainless steel water bottle they handed out at useR. :-) Most of those I agree with, but I think it was more R core (in particular Brian Ripley) who got R to build on 64-bit Windows systems. I helped Revolution to understand what he had done. Duncan Murdoch All of these cost money and benefit R, even if the dollars themselves don't flow to the R foundation. Kevin Wright [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Duncan Murdoch murdoch.dun...@gmail.com wrote: On 16/09/2010 3:29 PM, Kevin Wright wrote: Revolution has given back in a number of ways: supporting the useR conference, assisting R core with getting R to build on 64-bit Windows systems, bug fixes, releasing some open source packages, a very fine blog from which I have learned some quite useful information, and helping R gain some needed credibility in the media and business worlds. Not to mention the stainless steel water bottle they handed out at useR. :-) Most of those I agree with, but I think it was more R core (in particular Brian Ripley) who got R to build on 64-bit Windows systems. I helped Revolution to understand what he had done. Duncan's correct: Brian Ripley deserves a lot more credit than he often gets for making R build on many systems, including port of the engine to be 64-bit clean. Duncan provided invaluable pointers to the Revolution developers to get our 64-bit Windows distribution running. (Now that mingcw supports 64-bit R, and Brian's role in making that happen, things are a lot easier on our end too. Thanks, again.) I did want to add to Kevin's words also (thanks, Kevin): supporting and growing the R community is a big goal of ours. A lot of it happens behind the scenes, for example helping get local R user groups up and running (there are now more than 40, from just a couple of formal groups as little as a year ago), and sponsoring students doing R development. I hope our contributions in these other ways help to benefit the R community as a whole. # David Smith -- David M Smith da...@revolutionanalytics.com VP of Marketing, Revolution Analytics http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com Tel: +1 (650) 330-0553 x205 (Palo Alto, CA, USA) __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
Hello dear Jaroslaw, I strongly agree with you that the R foundation should have an easier method of enabling people to give donations. At the same time, I feel there is a (friendly) disagreement between us on how such money should be used. Your massage has inspired me to write a post on the topic, titles: Open source and money why R developers shouldnt be paidhttp://www.r-statistics.com/2010/09/open-source-and-money-why-r-developers-shouldnt-be-paid/ I hope you, and other community members, would find interest in it. Best, Tal Contact Details:--- Contact me: tal.gal...@gmail.com | 972-52-7275845 Read me: www.talgalili.com (Hebrew) | www.biostatistics.co.il (Hebrew) | www.r-statistics.com (English) -- On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
I know from organizing a conference in Germany that the only really good way was and is ordinary money transfer via BIC and IBAN numbers. Unfortunately, this system is pretty unknown in the US. Europeans can easily use money transfer to the R foundation. Paypal? Many open source projects have a 'donate with paypal' button. Jeremy -- Jeremy Miles Psychology Research Methods Wiki: www.researchmethodsinpsychology.com __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
Enjoyed it very much! -Original Message- From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org] On Behalf Of Tal Galili Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:31 PM To: jaropis Cc: r-h...@stat.math.ethz.ch; lig...@statistik.tu-dortmund.de; da...@revolutionanalytics.com Subject: Re: [R] R Founding Hello dear Jaroslaw, I strongly agree with you that the R foundation should have an easier method of enabling people to give donations. At the same time, I feel there is a (friendly) disagreement between us on how such money should be used. Your massage has inspired me to write a post on the topic, titles: Open source and money why R developers shouldnt be paidhttp://www.r-statistics.com/2010/09/open-source-and-money-why-r-develop ers-shouldnt-be-paid/ I hope you, and other community members, would find interest in it. Best, Tal Contact Details:--- Contact me: tal.gal...@gmail.com | 972-52-7275845 Read me: www.talgalili.com (Hebrew) | www.biostatistics.co.il (Hebrew) | www.r-statistics.com (English) -- On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 17:30 -0400, Tal Galili wrote: Hello dear Jaroslaw, I strongly agree with you that the R foundation should have an easier method of enabling people to give donations. At the same time, I feel there is a (friendly) disagreement between us on how such money should be used. Your massage has inspired me to write a post on the topic, titles: Was this --^ a Freudian slip? In any case, it seems consistent with your notion of compensation for open-source developers. :) Interesting post Tal. -Matt Open source and money – why R developers shouldn’t be paidhttp://www.r-statistics.com/2010/09/open-source-and-money-why-r-developers-shouldnt-be-paid/ I hope you, and other community members, would find interest in it. Best, Tal Contact Details:--- Contact me: tal.gal...@gmail.com | 972-52-7275845 Read me: www.talgalili.com (Hebrew) | www.biostatistics.co.il (Hebrew) | www.r-statistics.com (English) -- On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM, jaropis jaro...@zg.home.pl wrote: A few days ago Tal Galili posted a message about some controversies concerning the future of R. Having read the discussions, especially those following Ross Ihaka's post, I have come to the conclusion, that, as usual, the problem is money. I doubt there would be discussions about dropping R in its present form if the R-Foundation were properly funded and could hire computer scientists, programmers and statisticians. If a commercial company is able to provide big-database and multicore solutions, then so would a properly founded R-Foundation. In my opinion the main reason for the lack of funding is that the Foundation does not want to accept it from users and waits for the likes of Google to bring them a sack of money. I have already posted about this, but this seems to be the time and place to repeat it: it is very difficult to donate anything to the R-Foundation. First you have to find the appropriate link at the r-project page, then you have to fill out a form and send or fax it to the Foundation. I am not comfortable sending my details over snail-mail or fax. I would GLADLY donate 30-50$ each year just to see R develop, but there needs to be a way for me to do it in a civilized manner. If the userbase of R is over 2 million there will surely be 100,000 users who, like myself, will happily fork out 40$ a year - would that help? you can do the calculation yourselves. Set up a donation page in which I will be able to pay by credit card or PayPal and you will start getting donations from individual users. Advertise this at the startup message of the program: say something like support us at www.suppoRtR.com and the money will start coming. I am sure there would be enough to employ some foundation members full-time, pay external CSs and even protect the system in court from those who make money off of somebody else's work and do not give back to the community (you know who I am talking about). R and the Foundation have helped a lot of us to do our research and make real money. Now give us a chance to help you! Regards Jaroslaw Piskorski __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] -- Matthew S. Shotwell Graduate Student Division of Biostatistics and Epidemiology Medical University of South Carolina __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] R Founding
Hi Group, I have a possibly naive question, but it seems like it fits into this discussion. I have observed that when researchers publish findings that are deemed to be high-impact, generous funding often follows. R is used everywhere, and, of course, for many of these projects. So my naive question is: I would have assumed that R should be well-funded because of this; are there obstacles in receiving funding from common sources? Thanks, Juliet P.S. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to R and R-help! __ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
