Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Walter Bender  
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>  wrote:
>>> Comments inline...
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Walter Bender 
>>> wrote:

 On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
  wrote:
 > Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:
 > The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to
 > focus
 > the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral,
 > freeform,
 > list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI
 > views
 > metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic
 > language
 > is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
 > interaction paradigm is clear and focused.
 > Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
 > worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as
 > a
 > ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems
 > like
 > an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the
 > Journal, or
 > we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
 > potentially workable solution...
 > We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out
 > if
 > we want to adopt any of the proposals.
 >
 > Christian
 > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin 
 > wrote:
 >>
 >> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
 >>
 >> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes
 >> > 
 >> > wrote:
 >> >
 >> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
 >> >>> See
 >> >>>
 >> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
 >> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I
 >> >>> generate
 >> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
 >> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
 >> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the
 >> >>> Spiral
 >> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
 >> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small
 >> >>> along
 >> >>> the way.
 >> >>>
 >> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
 >> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
 >> >>>
 >> >>> Comments/suggestions?
 >> >>
 >> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
 >> >> activities grows?
 >> >
 >> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in
 >> > the
 >> > fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
 >> > activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a
 >> > fixed
 >> > layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact),
 >> > and/or
 >> > reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
 >> > flexibility.
 >> >
 >> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
 >> > close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by
 >> > dragging N
 >> > units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either
 >> > state
 >> > for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged
 >> > out into
 >> > empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each
 >> > view could
 >> > be as random or not as desired).
 >>
 >> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
 >> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars
 >> being
 >> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
 >> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
 >> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
 >> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch
 >> new
 >> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
 >> activities of that type).
 >>
 >> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in
 >> empty
 >> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all
 >> icons
 >> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
 >> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a
 >> snapped
 >> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
 >>
 >> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and
 >> land
 >> something like this all in one go.
 >>
 >> --Gary
 >>
 >> > But Walters spirals, without any o

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
>> Comments inline...
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Walter Bender 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:
>>> > The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to
>>> > focus
>>> > the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral,
>>> > freeform,
>>> > list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI
>>> > views
>>> > metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic
>>> > language
>>> > is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
>>> > interaction paradigm is clear and focused.
>>> > Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
>>> > worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as
>>> > a
>>> > ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems
>>> > like
>>> > an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the
>>> > Journal, or
>>> > we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
>>> > potentially workable solution...
>>> > We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out
>>> > if
>>> > we want to adopt any of the proposals.
>>> >
>>> > Christian
>>> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes
>>> >> > 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
>>> >> >>> See
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>>> >> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I
>>> >> >>> generate
>>> >> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>>> >> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>>> >> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the
>>> >> >>> Spiral
>>> >> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>>> >> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small
>>> >> >>> along
>>> >> >>> the way.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>>> >> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Comments/suggestions?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
>>> >> >> activities grows?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
>>> >> > activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a
>>> >> > fixed
>>> >> > layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact),
>>> >> > and/or
>>> >> > reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
>>> >> > flexibility.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
>>> >> > close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by
>>> >> > dragging N
>>> >> > units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either
>>> >> > state
>>> >> > for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged
>>> >> > out into
>>> >> > empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each
>>> >> > view could
>>> >> > be as random or not as desired).
>>> >>
>>> >> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
>>> >> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars
>>> >> being
>>> >> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
>>> >> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
>>> >> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
>>> >> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch
>>> >> new
>>> >> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
>>> >> activities of that type).
>>> >>
>>> >> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in
>>> >> empty
>>> >> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all
>>> >> icons
>>> >> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
>>> >> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a
>>> >> snapped
>>> >> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
>>> >>
>>> >> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and
>>> >> land
>>> >> something like this all in one go.
>>> >>
>>> >> --Gary
>>> >>
>>> >> > But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a
>>> >> > huge improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm
>>> >> > already
>>> >> > hard-pressed to find new activities to

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Christian Marc Schmidt]

Comments below:

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Gary Martin wrote:

> On 9 Aug 2010, at 15:37, Christian Marc Schmidt 
> wrote:
>
>
>> (1) Can we reach consensus re spiraling in from the MAXIMUM radius
>> once the Ring is full or spiraling out from the MINIMUM radius once
>> the Ring is full?
>>
>
> I would say spiraling in from max radius. That way we can maximize the
> efficiency of the ring, before transitioning to the spiral.
>
>
> Oh well I guess I just got out voted (think max inwards looks ugly,
> backwards, unexpected for a spiral) ;)
>


Sorry, maybe I'm not fully clear on the behavior. I DO think that the spiral
should start from within and spiral out. In my last comment, I was more
thinking along the lines of first having the ring expand to max size, THEN
switching to spiral when more activities are added.

Gary, I thought your mockup looked great, where the spiral begins above the
XO and spirals out with enough padding between segments to not make it feel
too dense. I think we should do whatever we can to achieve this look.



>
> Walter, looking at your mockups I'd try to come up with an algorithm that
> gives us a looser spiral with more space between each segment of the spiral,
> more along the lines of what Gary mocked up. The screenshots on the wiki
> look very dense. Gary's mockup really proved to me that this can work!
>
>
> Yes, maybe that will help remove all the dead inner white space when using
> the max inward spiral.
>
>  (2) Is is OK to add an INTERMEDIATE icon size between STANDARD and SMALL?
>
> I'd even go further and suggest that we could have icons scale dynamically
> within the ring/spiral, to achieve maximum balance between the available
> space and icon legibility.
>
>
> FWIW I was testing Walters latest patch today and noted that the existing
> original ring code did much more with icon scaling than the current patch.
> In the low icon number count, icons start large and then gradually reduce in
> size before filling the minimum radius. Roughly the first 13 icons form the
> min radius ring are at their largest size, then up to about 19 icons the
> they slowly reduce in size down to the next preset standard, at which point
> the ring starts growing in radius. Once the radius hits max, I believe
> that's when the icons start to scale down further (not sure if this is a
> sudden size change to another small default or some gradual reduction).
>
> Walter, your latest patch does show a big visual jump once the large icons
> reach the maximum radius, as that point it triggers a large icon size step
> down and the ring goes from full height to about half height with on extra
> icon.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that the style.STANDARD_ICON_SIZE, MEDIUM, and
> SMALL are there to improve icon rendering/cache efficiency? I vaguely
> remember some pre-rendering to set sizes discussion/work some time back. Not
> sure if we mess that up by using arbitrary values?
>
>  My only concern here is that we'd need to find the right balance so as
> not to interrupt the general zoom metaphor, going from large to small icons
> (home to neighborhood). This means we probably need to put a cap on the
> bottom end of the scale, not allowing icons to become too small so that they
> could reach the size of icons in the groups view...
>
> All this will take lots of exploration I think before getting it right. I
> can work on mockups if that would help...
>
>
> I'd say apply the patch and/or tinker with the current code (it's a single
> file, and just one short method* that pretty much fits in one page of
> source), I found trying to layout icons accurately in a spiral for a mockup
> quite an art in itself ;)
>
> * _calculate_radius_and_icon_size is the method, and it's in
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/favoriteslayout.py
>
>
>
>> (3) In regard to Q1, I could trigger the spiral before the Ring hits
>> the MAXIMUM radius, perhaps at MAXIMUM-icon_size? (I've not
>> illustrated this yet.)
>>
>
> Yes, I think that probably makes sense. We should play through all the
> possibilities and then make a decision based on what works best...
>
>
> I was looking into growing the ring up from the min radius (large icons) up
> to the half way point between max and min radius. Icons would then smoothly
> reduce to the next standard size down. The spiral would then trigger, and
> grow both outwards and inwards. Once max/min are reached, icons are then
> gradually down sized again to fit. Might just be easier/close enough to use
> the old ring code and trigger something close to Walter's v1 spiral code at
> the halfway between max and min radius.
>
> --Gary
>
>
>
>> -walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>>  http://www.sugarlabs.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
> 917/ 575 0013
>
>


-- 
anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
917/ 575 0013

http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/christianmarcschmidt
http://twitter.com/cms_

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Gary Martin]

On 9 Aug 2010, at 15:37, Christian Marc Schmidt  wrote:

> 
> (1) Can we reach consensus re spiraling in from the MAXIMUM radius
> once the Ring is full or spiraling out from the MINIMUM radius once
> the Ring is full?
> 
> I would say spiraling in from max radius. That way we can maximize the 
> efficiency of the ring, before transitioning to the spiral.

Oh well I guess I just got out voted (think max inwards looks ugly, backwards, 
unexpected for a spiral) ;)

> Walter, looking at your mockups I'd try to come up with an algorithm that 
> gives us a looser spiral with more space between each segment of the spiral, 
> more along the lines of what Gary mocked up. The screenshots on the wiki look 
> very dense. Gary's mockup really proved to me that this can work!

Yes, maybe that will help remove all the dead inner white space when using the 
max inward spiral.

>  (2) Is is OK to add an INTERMEDIATE icon size between STANDARD and SMALL?
> 
> I'd even go further and suggest that we could have icons scale dynamically 
> within the ring/spiral, to achieve maximum balance between the available 
> space and icon legibility.

FWIW I was testing Walters latest patch today and noted that the existing 
original ring code did much more with icon scaling than the current patch. In 
the low icon number count, icons start large and then gradually reduce in size 
before filling the minimum radius. Roughly the first 13 icons form the min 
radius ring are at their largest size, then up to about 19 icons the they 
slowly reduce in size down to the next preset standard, at which point the ring 
starts growing in radius. Once the radius hits max, I believe that's when the 
icons start to scale down further (not sure if this is a sudden size change to 
another small default or some gradual reduction). 

Walter, your latest patch does show a big visual jump once the large icons 
reach the maximum radius, as that point it triggers a large icon size step down 
and the ring goes from full height to about half height with on extra icon.

Am I correct in assuming that the style.STANDARD_ICON_SIZE, MEDIUM, and SMALL 
are there to improve icon rendering/cache efficiency? I vaguely remember some 
pre-rendering to set sizes discussion/work some time back. Not sure if we mess 
that up by using arbitrary values?

>  My only concern here is that we'd need to find the right balance so as not 
> to interrupt the general zoom metaphor, going from large to small icons (home 
> to neighborhood). This means we probably need to put a cap on the bottom end 
> of the scale, not allowing icons to become too small so that they could reach 
> the size of icons in the groups view...
> 
> All this will take lots of exploration I think before getting it right. I can 
> work on mockups if that would help...

I'd say apply the patch and/or tinker with the current code (it's a single 
file, and just one short method* that pretty much fits in one page of source), 
I found trying to layout icons accurately in a spiral for a mockup quite an art 
in itself ;)

* _calculate_radius_and_icon_size is the method, and it's in 
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/favoriteslayout.py

>  
> (3) In regard to Q1, I could trigger the spiral before the Ring hits
> the MAXIMUM radius, perhaps at MAXIMUM-icon_size? (I've not
> illustrated this yet.)
> 
> Yes, I think that probably makes sense. We should play through all the 
> possibilities and then make a decision based on what works best...

I was looking into growing the ring up from the min radius (large icons) up to 
the half way point between max and min radius. Icons would then smoothly reduce 
to the next standard size down. The spiral would then trigger, and grow both 
outwards and inwards. Once max/min are reached, icons are then gradually down 
sized again to fit. Might just be easier/close enough to use the old ring code 
and trigger something close to Walter's v1 spiral code at the halfway between 
max and min radius. 

--Gary  

>  
> -walter
> 
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
> 917/ 575 0013
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Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Christian Marc Schmidt
 wrote:
> Comments inline...
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Walter Bender 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:
>> > The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to
>> > focus
>> > the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral,
>> > freeform,
>> > list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI
>> > views
>> > metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic
>> > language
>> > is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
>> > interaction paradigm is clear and focused.
>> > Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
>> > worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as
>> > a
>> > ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems
>> > like
>> > an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the
>> > Journal, or
>> > we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
>> > potentially workable solution...
>> > We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out
>> > if
>> > we want to adopt any of the proposals.
>> >
>> > Christian
>> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes
>> >> > 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
>> >> >>> See
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>> >> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I
>> >> >>> generate
>> >> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>> >> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>> >> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the
>> >> >>> Spiral
>> >> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>> >> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small
>> >> >>> along
>> >> >>> the way.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>> >> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Comments/suggestions?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
>> >> >> activities grows?
>> >> >
>> >> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in
>> >> > the
>> >> > fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
>> >> > activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a
>> >> > fixed
>> >> > layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact),
>> >> > and/or
>> >> > reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
>> >> > flexibility.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
>> >> > close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by
>> >> > dragging N
>> >> > units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either
>> >> > state
>> >> > for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged
>> >> > out into
>> >> > empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each
>> >> > view could
>> >> > be as random or not as desired).
>> >>
>> >> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
>> >> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars
>> >> being
>> >> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
>> >> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
>> >> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
>> >> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch
>> >> new
>> >> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
>> >> activities of that type).
>> >>
>> >> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in
>> >> empty
>> >> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all
>> >> icons
>> >> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
>> >> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a
>> >> snapped
>> >> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
>> >>
>> >> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and
>> >> land
>> >> something like this all in one go.
>> >>
>> >> --Gary
>> >>
>> >> > But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a
>> >> > huge improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm
>> >> > already
>> >> > hard-pressed to find new activities to fill up the view for testing,
>> >> > really
>> >> > scrapping the barrel.
>> >> >
>> >> > For those of you involved in deployments — roughly how many
>> >> > activities
>> 

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Christian Marc Schmidt]

Comments inline...

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
>  wrote:
> > Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:
> > The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to
> focus
> > the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral,
> freeform,
> > list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI views
> > metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic
> language
> > is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
> > interaction paradigm is clear and focused.
> > Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
> > worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as
> a
> > ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems
> like
> > an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the Journal,
> or
> > we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
> > potentially workable solution...
> > We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out
> if
> > we want to adopt any of the proposals.
> >
> > Christian
> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes <
> hilaire.fernan...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
> >> >>> See
> >> >>>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
> >> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I
> generate
> >> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
> >> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
> >> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
> >> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
> >> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
> >> >>> the way.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
> >> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Comments/suggestions?
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
> >> >> activities grows?
> >> >
> >> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in
> the
> >> > fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
> >> > activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a
> fixed
> >> > layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact),
> and/or
> >> > reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
> >> > flexibility.
> >> >
> >> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
> >> > close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by dragging
> N
> >> > units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either
> state
> >> > for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged out
> into
> >> > empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each view
> could
> >> > be as random or not as desired).
> >>
> >> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
> >> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars
> being
> >> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
> >> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
> >> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
> >> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch
> new
> >> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
> >> activities of that type).
> >>
> >> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in
> empty
> >> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all
> icons
> >> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
> >> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a
> snapped
> >> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
> >>
> >> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and
> land
> >> something like this all in one go.
> >>
> >> --Gary
> >>
> >> > But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a
> >> > huge improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm
> already
> >> > hard-pressed to find new activities to fill up the view for testing,
> really
> >> > scrapping the barrel.
> >> >
> >> > For those of you involved in deployments — roughly how many activities
> >> > do you think kids/teachers currently commonly have?
> >> >
> >> >> For example grouping related activities in spiral
> >> >> segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
> >> >> segments.
> >> >
> >> > -1 No to a color scheme here. Colour is already used f

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
 wrote:
> Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:
> The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to focus
> the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral, freeform,
> list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI views
> metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic language
> is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
> interaction paradigm is clear and focused.
> Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
> worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as a
> ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems like
> an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the Journal, or
> we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
> potentially workable solution...
> We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out if
> we want to adopt any of the proposals.
>
> Christian
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
>>
>> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
>> >>> See
>> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
>> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
>> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
>> >>> the way.
>> >>>
>> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>> >>>
>> >>> Comments/suggestions?
>> >>
>> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
>> >> activities grows?
>> >
>> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in the
>> > fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
>> > activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a fixed
>> > layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact), and/or
>> > reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
>> > flexibility.
>> >
>> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
>> > close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by dragging N
>> > units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either state
>> > for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged out into
>> > empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each view 
>> > could
>> > be as random or not as desired).
>>
>> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
>> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars being
>> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
>> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
>> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
>> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch new
>> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
>> activities of that type).
>>
>> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in empty
>> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all icons
>> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
>> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a snapped
>> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
>>
>> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and land
>> something like this all in one go.
>>
>> --Gary
>>
>> > But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a
>> > huge improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm already
>> > hard-pressed to find new activities to fill up the view for testing, really
>> > scrapping the barrel.
>> >
>> > For those of you involved in deployments — roughly how many activities
>> > do you think kids/teachers currently commonly have?
>> >
>> >> For example grouping related activities in spiral
>> >> segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
>> >> segments.
>> >
>> > -1 No to a color scheme here. Colour is already used for identity. It's
>> > bad enough that the GC activities, and a few others, break the colour
>> > metaphor by not bothering with the &fill_color and &stroke_color variables 
>> > —
>> > adding even more colour metaphors would not help! ;)
>> >
>> > --Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
> 917/ 575 0013

Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Christian Marc Schmidt]

Hi Gary--thanks for the interesting mockup! My feedback:

The spiral is interesting and worth exploring. But I would continue to focus
the view on a single organizational system, whether ring, spiral, freeform,
list, etc. This preserves the integrity and extensibility of the UI views
metaphor, and doesn't overload the screen. Because the iconographic language
is already very abstract and pared down, we need to make sure that the
interaction paradigm is clear and focused.

Based on your rendering I think that the spiral in itself is definitely
worth exploring further, and I like Walter's idea that it could start as a
ring and grow into a spiral when more activities are added. That seems like
an elegant and scalable solution. Favoriting could happen in the Journal, or
we could opt to always display all activities--either seems like a
potentially workable solution...

We should also come back to the resume/start new proposal and figure out if
we want to adopt any of the proposals.


Christian

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Gary Martin wrote:

> On 8 Aug 2010, at 14:54, Gary Martin wrote:
>
> > On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
> >>> See
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
> >>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
> >>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
> >>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
> >>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
> >>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
> >>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
> >>> the way.
> >>>
> >>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
> >>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
> >>>
> >>> Comments/suggestions?
> >>
> >> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
> >> activities grows?
> >
> > Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in the
> fav. view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many
> activities. Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a fixed
> layout pattern to random mode (with the layout initially intact), and/or
> reordering the sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some
> flexibility.
> >
> > Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units
> close to a snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by dragging N
> units away from their/a set position). With different icons in either state
> for a single view (I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged out into
> empty space). The current random view could then go away (as each view could
> be as random or not as desired).
>
> Just as a follow up to my above comment, attached is a quick home view
> vector mockup. It assumes the list view is gone, with Journal stars being
> used to indicate (arbitrary entry) home favourites. It shows a 'snap to
> spiral' pattern, with several random clusters of activities/objects
> previously dragged out of the pattern by the user. Coloured icons would
> resume specific activity id objects, grey icons would be used to launch new
> instances (with the usual resume drop down palette of N most recent
> activities of that type).
>
> The spiral would re-flow once an icon is dragged out and dropped (in empty
> space), or dragged in and dropped (on an already snapped icon). If all icons
> were dragged out you would have what would look like the random layout,
> dragging an icon back onto the central XO would start reflowing a snapped
> pattern design again, as would adding new activity favourites.
>
> Again, just a future possible approach. Definitely no need to try and land
> something like this all in one go.
>
> --Gary
>
> > But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a
> huge improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm already
> hard-pressed to find new activities to fill up the view for testing, really
> scrapping the barrel.
> >
> > For those of you involved in deployments — roughly how many activities do
> you think kids/teachers currently commonly have?
> >
> >> For example grouping related activities in spiral
> >> segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
> >> segments.
> >
> > -1 No to a color scheme here. Colour is already used for identity. It's
> bad enough that the GC activities, and a few others, break the colour
> metaphor by not bothering with the &fill_color and &stroke_color variables —
> adding even more colour metaphors would not help! ;)
> >
> > --Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com
917/ 575 0013

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Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Gary Martin  wrote:
> Hi Walter,
>
> On 8 Aug 2010, at 12:59, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>> See 
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
>> the way.
>>
>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>
> Thanks, been testing comparing it with the other patch, for those without 
> time to try, see attached image. Left column is Walter's v1 patch, right is 
> the v2 patch.
>
>> Comments/suggestions?
>
> You'll hate me for saying this, but I rather prefer your v1 spiral patch ;)
>
>  - when the circle is large (39 activities), the distance the activities are 
> from the central XO is really visually uncomfortable and disconnected

I don't think the large circle behavior has changed from before, but
that doesn't mean it is correct. Maybe we want to trigger the spiral
sooner? And gradually grow out to the maximum radius? I'll experiment
with a few more variants.

>
>  - when your v1 spiral triggers looks really good, wrapping near around the 
> user, spiralling outwards
>
>  - when v2 patch triggers to spiral, it has the same far away spacing from 
> the user XO as the large circle, until you favourite about 90-95 activities
>
>  - v2 patch also seems to trip into tiny, tiny, icon mode even though there 
> is space still, well before v1 does (see bottom images) – large icons as long 
> as possible are really important (think touch UI compatible)

I think it is a peculiarity of fitting a spiral into a rectangle that
causes the icon trigger to fire at slightly different times.

Actually, it is triggering the intermediate size. Small is really
small. (See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Spiral-small.png)

>
> If you want a more continuous transition between the v1 circle and spiral (I 
> agree v1 is quite a large change), a close circle up to about 22-26 icons 
> would be nice switch to spiral point, before icons feel too disconnected from 
> the user and matching up well with the v1 spiral.

As per above, I'll play with a few more variants.

Thanks for testing.

-walter
>
> --Gary
>
>> -walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
>
>
>
>



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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Gary Martin]

On 8 Aug 2010, at 13:42, Hilaire Fernandes  wrote:

> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
>> See 
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
>> the way.
>> 
>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>> 
>> Comments/suggestions?
> 
> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
> activities grows?

Search (ghost out non matches, as per neighbourhood view design) in the fav. 
view would seem an ideal next step here when dealing with many activities. 
Allowing drag and drop that would trigger a switch from a fixed layout pattern 
to random mode (with the layout initially intact), and/or reordering the 
sequence by drag'n'drop insertions would allow some flexibility. 

Ideally icons would be either snapped to the shape (dragging N units close to a 
snapped icon or the XO) or freeform positioned (by dragging N units away from 
their/a set position). With different icons in either state for a single view 
(I.e. a spiral with a few frequent icons dragged out into empty space). The 
current random view could then go away (as each view could be as random or not 
as desired).

But Walters spirals, without any of the above type extras, is still a huge 
improvement for those that want to fav many activities. I'm already 
hard-pressed to find new activities to fill up the view for testing, really 
scrapping the barrel.

For those of you involved in deployments — roughly how many activities do you 
think kids/teachers currently commonly have?   

> For example grouping related activities in spiral
> segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
> segments.

-1 No to a color scheme here. Colour is already used for identity. It's bad 
enough that the GC activities, and a few others, break the colour metaphor by 
not bothering with the &fill_color and &stroke_color variables — adding even 
more colour metaphors would not help! ;)

--Gary  

> Hilaire
> 
> 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Hilaire Fernandes
 wrote:
> Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
>> See 
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
>> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
>> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
>> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
>> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
>> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
>> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
>> the way.
>>
>> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
>> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
>>
>> Comments/suggestions?
>
> Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
> activities grows? For example grouping related activities in spiral
> segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
> segments.

The reordering to fit a taxonomy would be orthogonal to however we
render the sequence of icons. I am not sure of the optimal way to map
a multidimensional space onto a one-dimensional axis, but we do have
category information in ASLO.

Regarding recoloring, that would be a major UI paradigm shift. But we
could perhaps use some other visual attribute besides color to
indicate commonality.

-walter

> Hilaire
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Hilaire Fernandes]

Le 08/08/2010 13:59, Walter Bender a écrit :
> See 
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
> for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
> the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
> minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
> don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
> once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
> introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
> the way.
> 
> Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
> (http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)
> 
> Comments/suggestions?

Don't you need a way to recreate a taxonomy when the numbers of
activities grows? For example grouping related activities in spiral
segments and reinforcing this with common icon color scheme in these
segments.

Hilaire


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[Sugar-devel] modified Home View

[Walter Bender]

See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Spiral_Home_View#Detailed_Description
for the latest screen shots. I made some changes to the way I generate
the Spiral -- I start from the outside rather than the inside to
minimize the visual disruption between the Ring and the Spiral. I
don't ever shrink the icon size in the Ring, but do so in the Spiral
once the minimum radius is reached. Perhaps most controversial, I
introduce an intermediate icon size between standard and small along
the way.

Gary: I'll post a new patch to the ticket momentarily.
(http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2143)

Comments/suggestions?

-walter

-- 
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Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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