[Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I receivedsome obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since ithad a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met,took exception to my response andsent her own reply. In my opinion, this email could not do a better job to reveal a popular misunderstanding of the culture from which Islam comes. It also demonstrates the feelings of someone who considers herself benevolent but, is so scared that she absolutely insists that someone should be punished. Ifound it to be a frightening example of a person in transition from caring to hating. Although I'm not a sociologist or a mental health professional, it was apparent to me that the email I received, was from a women filled with contradictions and uncertainty. Someone at the beginning of becoming a racist. I wouldn't send such a long email if I didn't think it wasrevealing. If you want to follow the whole exchange, start at the bottom. I suspect that you will also find the chain letter to be divisive and one that plays onfear. Mike ___ Michael,The fact that numerous religions have perpetrated acts of violence and hatred towards others throughout the ages DOES NOT negate the fact that horrible things are being done in the world today in the name of Islam. It is the only religion in the world today (as far as I in my ignorance know) that is FORCING people to convert to it with devastating consequences/death if they don't. Women ARE being forced to live in subservience and suffer inhumane treatment at the hands of a religion that hands all authority to men (I understand that this is not true in every Muslim country, and I understand that there are other cultures that promote the same treatment... but it DOES NOT negate the fact that Islam is doing this also). Christian and Animist women and girls in Africa, in the Sudan, are being kidnapped and being forced to become slaves and sexual slaves to Muslim men, even being forced to undergo female circumcision, in the name of Islam, because they are infidels. People in Africa and Indonesia, Asia, and other places are being killed, or threatened with death for not converting to Islam. Young boys are being forced to fight brutal wars in the name of Islam. Young men, and now young women, are being brainwashed into becoming suicide bombers and blowing up innocent people in restaurants, buses, trains, etc. by instilling in them a hatred of anything that is western and not Islamic. Authors ARE being killed, or threatened with death for expressing an opposing viewpoint. This IS all happening today in the name of Islam. I understand that our country has killed thousands of innocent people in wars that promote our own agenda, but that also DOES NOT negate the fact that people are doing these things in the name of Islam. I wonder if we are getting a balanced report of what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. To be sure, the media is not making up the number of deaths and the number of bombings, but I cannot believe that a vast majority of the people in those countries are excited at the prospect of freedom and opportunity and the hope of living free of persecution. It is not the moderate Muslims that are ruining our country's effort to restore peace, to rebuild the infrastructure, to rebuild schools, improve the water and electrical systems to better than what it was, etc.No one is ever justified in forcing one person to accept a belief by force. No one is ever justified in torturing people or killing them in the name of a religion. It is shameful to me that people like Timothy McVeigh call themselves "Christians" and believe they are acting in the name of God. David Koresh, the Guyana tragedies, etc etc etc -- all twisted cults doing things in the name of Christ or Christianity. Those men are wrong, just as these Muslim extremists are wrong. They take writings that DO exist in the Koran, and take them to the extreme, believing they are doing the right thing and will receive glory from Allah in the hereafter. If they are right, that's one scary religion. If they are wrong, then they deserve to be condemned for their actions.So basically I take it from your email below that we are not supposed to notice the trends in the world today just because "Islam does not stand alone." Do we excuse radical Islamic extremists because, well, extremists will be extremists, just like boys will be boys, or because other religions have had extremists too?This is about the third or fourth time you have responded to a mass email and I have read you defending people who would love to see MY faith destroyed and my country brought down, and would love to wipe an entire people group which I support wiped off the face of the earth (the Jews)(and I am not talking about a small country which you would undoubtedly say that the Jews took over by force from the poor
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
i don't know, mike. i think she's kind of already there. the chain letter guy plays the instigator. she plays the apologist. -chris-Original Message-From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:01:48 -0700 (PDT)Subject: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I receivedsome obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since ithad a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met,took exception to my response andsent her own reply. In my opinion, this email could not do a better job to reveal a popular misunderstanding of the culture from which Islam comes. It also demonstrates the feelings of someone who considers herself benevolent but, is so scared that she absolutely insists that someone should be punished. Ifound it to be a frightening example of a person in transition from caring to hating. Although I'm not a sociologist or a mental health professional, it was apparent to me that the email I received, was from a women filled with contradictions and uncertainty. Someone at the beginning of becoming a racist. I wouldn't send such a long email if I didn't think it wasrevealing. If you want to follow the whole exchange, start at the bottom. I suspect that you will also find the chain letter to be divisive and one that plays onfear. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, Earlier this week snip and again On Aug 2, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Michael Redler wrote: Joe, you xenophobic moron. snip Michael, I didn't read an aweful lot of the exchange but, I can't imagine that this approach is going to be met with anything but aggression. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
...depends on the audience. Granted, if I gave myself a few minutes to gather my thoughts, I could have done a better job. In any event, I wasn't about to let it go without responding. Mike"Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Hi everyone, Earlier this week and again On Aug 2, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Michael Redler wrote: Joe, you xenophobic moron. Michael,I didn't read an aweful lot of the exchange but, I can't imagine that this approach is going to be met with anything but aggression.Take care,Ken___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
ouch! methinks ten million be a pathetically low estimate. -chris b. In a message dated 8/3/05 8:39:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let's see, How many Muslim extremists killed ten million native north and south americans in the name of freedom of religion ?- Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I received some obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since it had a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met, took exception to my response and sent her own reply. In my opinion, this email could not do a better job to reveal a popular misunderstanding of the culture from which Islam comes. It also demonstrates the feelings of someone who considers herself benevolent but. . . . ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
I didn't think of it in those terms but, I think you're right on. Mike[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i don't know, mike. i think she's kind of already there. the chain letter guy plays the instigator. she plays the apologist. -chris-Original Message-From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:01:48 -0700 (PDT)Subject: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I receivedsome obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since ithad a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met,took exception to my response andsent her own reply. In my opinion, this email could not do a better job to reveal a popular misunderstanding of the culture from which Islam comes. It also demonstrates the feelings of someone who considers herself benevolent but, is so scared that she absolutely insists that someone should be punished. Ifound it to be a frightening example of a person in transition from caring to hating. Although I'm not a sociologist or a mental health professional, it was apparent to me that the email I received, was from a women filled with contradictions and uncertainty. Someone at the beginning of becoming a racist. I wouldn't send such a long email if I didn't think it wasrevealing. If you want to follow the whole exchange, start at the bottom. I suspect that you will also find the chain letter to be divisive and one that plays onfear. Mike___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
Let's see, How many Muslim extremists killed ten million native north and south americans in the name of freedom of religion ?- Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I receivedsome obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since ithad a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met,took exception to my response andsent her own reply. In my opinion, this email could not do a better job to reveal a popular misunderstanding of the culture from which Islam comes. It also demonstrates the feelings of someone who considers herself benevolent but, is so scared that she absolutely insists that someone should be punished. Ifound it to be a frightening example of a person in transition from caring to hating. Although I'm not a sociologist or a mental health professional, it was apparent to me that the email I received, was from a women filled with contradictions and uncertainty. Someone at the beginning of becoming a racist. I wouldn't send such a long email if I didn't think it wasrevealing. If you want to follow the whole exchange, start at the bottom. I suspect that you will also find the chain letter to be divisive and one that plays onfear. Mike ___ Michael,The fact that numerous religions have perpetrated acts of violence and hatred towards others throughout the ages DOES NOT negate the fact that horrible things are being done in the world today in the name of Islam. It is the only religion in the world today (as far as I in my ignorance know) that is FORCING people to convert to it with devastating consequences/death if they don't. Women ARE being forced to live in subservience and suffer inhumane treatment at the hands of a religion that hands all authority to men (I understand that this is not true in every Muslim country, and I understand that there are other cultures that promote the same treatment... but it DOES NOT negate the fact that Islam is doing this also). Christian and Animist women and girls in Africa, in the Sudan, are being kidnapped and being forced to become slaves and sexual slaves to Muslim men, even being forced to undergo female circumcision, in the name of Islam, because they are infidels. People in Africa and Indonesia, Asia, and other places are being killed, or threatened with death for not converting to Islam. Young boys are being forced to fight brutal wars in the name of Islam. Young men, and now young women, are being brainwashed into becoming suicide bombers and blowing up innocent people in restaurants, buses, trains, etc. by instilling in them a hatred of anything that is western and not Islamic. Authors ARE being killed, or threatened with death for expressing an opposing viewpoint. This IS all happening today in the name of Islam. I understand that our country has killed thousands of innocent people in wars that promote our own agenda, but that also DOES NOT negate the fact that people are doing these things in the name of Islam. I wonder if we are getting a balanced report of what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. To be sure, the media is not making up the number of deaths and the number of bombings, but I cannot believe that a vast majority of the people in those countries are excited at the prospect of freedom and opportunity and the hope of living free of persecution. It is not the moderate Muslims that are ruining our country's effort to restore peace, to rebuild the infrastructure, to rebuild schools, improve the water and electrical systems to better than what it was, etc.No one is ever justified in forcing one person to accept a belief by force. No one is ever justified in torturing people or killing them in the name of a religion. It is shameful to me that people like Timothy McVeigh call themselves "Christians" and believe they are acting in the name of God. David Koresh, the Guyana tragedies, etc etc etc -- all twisted cults doing things in the name of Christ or Christianity. Those men are wrong, just as these Muslim extremists are wrong. They take writings that DO exist in the Koran, and take them to the extreme, believing they are doing the right thing and will receive glory from Allah in the hereafter. If they are right, that's one scary religion. If they are wrong, then they deserve to be condemned for their actions.So b
Re: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism
Michael- I know that I'm not the first to say it, but I have to agree with those who point out the following; Some demonize another so they can excuse their own wrong doings in their own minds. Generally I find it a waste of time to respond, because they aren't interested in hearing what others think about the situation. I generally wait untill I come across a sane well thought out writing on the subject and forward that on at a later date. I did send out that Blue State thing to those that I remembered that sent me the read state version, though both are equally silly. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Justice and Liberty for all* * Restrictions apply: see the PATRIOT act for details. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The Culture Wars and Racism Hi everyone, Earlier this week, I received some obnoxious chain mail. I became so incensed by it, that I felt a need to respond - especially since it had a cc list and a way to counter the hate that was being spread. One of the people on the list, a woman who I never met, took exception to my response and sent her own reply. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
