t-and-f: Johnny Gray vs USOC?
Y ask Y: Kirby Lee of the Los Angeles Daily News has written one of the strangest pieces on track I've ever seen. It's an advance story on the L.A. Invitational, but it makes a truly bizarre claim. Kirby writes: LOS ANGELES - Johnny Gray announced his retirement at age 40 when he came up short in his bid for an unprecedented fifth Olympic berth in July. However, the American 800-meter record-holder isn't ready to put it in writing - even if the U.S. Olympic Committee behaves as if it can't wait to get rid of him The USOC forced his hand -- and he wasn't ready to play it. The organization requested that he sign a document to make his retirement official, which would've barred him from participating in a USA Track Field-sanctioned event for four years. He wouldn't do it. "That was kind of strange for me," Gray said. "I represent a country for over two decades and I decide I want to quit. Now I have to sign a legal document? But I didn't have to sign that legal document to start. Why should I have to sign a document to quit?" Another letter, to notify Gray that his partnership with the Olympic Job Opportunity Program was being terminated, added to his discontent. He had been under the impression he would receive support for at least a year following his retirement. "That was another stab in the back," Gray said. "We have so many U.S. athletes who sweat blood for their country but don't reap the benefits. It looks good because (when) you see the Michael Johnsons and the Marion Joneses, you think that Johnny Gray is making money out there. But the truth is, it is only a few."... Gray, who turns 41 in June, doesn't believe he can approach his American (800) record but is confident he can run in the 1:44 range after cracking 1:45 for 14 years, from 1984 through 1997 Gray attributed his subpar performance last season to a coaching change when Merle McGee, his coach since high school, retired. This season, he has reunited with McGee, who provides workouts by telephone. "If I can run 4:13 (mile) out of shape, I still have some talent," Gray said. "My age might say that I am a Master, but age is nothing but a number. I am still going because I enjoy the sport. I really don't see an end because I don't try to look toward the end. I just look toward the present and enjoy the present." Me again: First off, when will reporters quit saying he retired at the Trials? He made it clear he would compete in masters. He was merely stepping back from elite competition -- not hanging up his spikes for good. Second, what's up with this USOC crap? Utter nonsense! If he's a card-carrying member of USATF, he can compete anywhere he meets the age or performance standard. Johnnym will run the 600m at L.A. and might not be at his prime, but I don't get this stuff about signing a document to make his "retirement official." Somebody needs to straighten someone out. God forbid we should have to put retirement in writing. Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Ostriches
AGAIN Sam it is not I that missed the point. All the points you make can be made about all those different disciplines within the T and F sport. Rather than me having my head in the sand, I think that someone who is inconsistent with his argument could be accused of an ostrich type stance. In fact your argument on behalf of hurdling and steeple is precisely the argument for walking. Thank you for making it so succinctly. You are how ever ,to say the least, slightly inconsistent when you make a patently untrue assertion, namely, that Power walking isnt a test of different skills. Its a restraint on a very simple skill going fast. Where does that come from that is just picked out of the blue without any evidence to support it. On the other hand, by definition, race walking is a test of a set of different skills, some of these are actually defined in the rules. That it also tests a lot of the skills used in running is neither here or there. Hey the triple jump tests a lot of the skills that the long jump also tests. Compare , for example an elite race walkers agility to an elite runners agility. A walker comes out tops. This is NOT a criticism of walkers just reinforcing your general point that the different disciplines are there as of right with their own aims testing very different skills and abilities. And AGAIN, YES walking does restrain one from going as fast as if they ran, just as putting the shot restrains one from sending it as far as it can go, and so on and so on. Let me give you a hint here. Either a sport is judged solely on going the fastest or throwing the farthest in which case shot, hurdles, walking etc are silly. If they should be judged on other criteria formed by adherence to the particular rules of each sport then welcome back shot, hurdles, walking etc from the realms of silliness. You point out that my head is in the ground and therefore I will never see the problem with calling race walking an Olympic sport. Actually, Race Walking IS an Olympic Sport. It has been for quite some time. Also I feel quite qualified to talk about it in relation to running. I have competed for my country in both race walking and running. You looked at the situation and decided that it wasnt for you. Thats fine. I competed at a reasonably high level in both and also made a decision. I love BOTH. Did you ever consider that maybe racewalking in no way shape or form threatens runners. It is a different sport. You want racewalking withdrawn from the Olympics Why. What harm does it do to you??? Thanks as ever for the wonderful debate MIke -Original Message- From: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 January 2001 17:21 To: 'Mike Casey'; tf Cc: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] Subject: RE: Fun I'm not re-enforcing your point, rather, you're missing the point AGAIN. Powerwalking isn't a test of different skills. It's a restraint on a very simple skill - going fast. Powerwalking and straight sprinting/running aren't like hurdles/steeple because those serve a different function - the obstacle course comparison. They just happen to have been staged on a track and tied in with tandf. Those events could've easily been set-up as their own separate sport staged elsewhere. Hey stage powerwalking separately from tandf so that you can have undivided attention. Wouldn't that be better for your activity? Oh wait, nobody watches. By the way, i said from the START that hurdles/steeple were about more than just speed - i didn't concede anything. Read and pay attention. Notice, that they're about MORE then speed, not LESS than speed like powerwalking. Hmm, that was fairly creative. We're in a catch 22, sort of. You'll never see the problem with calling powerwalking an Olympic sport because your head's in the ground. I, on the other hand, grew up around Alan, Herm Nelson, Tony Engelhardt (US guys) when they were at WWU. They're cool guys and i used to watch them. As time went on, i realized that what they do is ridiculous and i stopped watching. See, i looked at the situation and made a decision, switching sides. Later, Sam adiRP -Original Message- From: Mike Casey [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 1:09 AM To: tf Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fun Hi Sam, This really is fun isn't it. So you are at last conceding that it isn't just a test of speed? You say that hurdles are a test of coordination/agility/balance/athletic ability AND speed/endurance. If thats a valid reason for existance as a discipline within TF then the fact that racewalking is a test of coordination/agility/balance/athletic ability AND speed/endurance (Hey this cut and paste function is great isn't it?)gives it also a valid reason for existance as a discipline within TF. Thank you so much for reinforcing my point. I agree the hammer allows one use two hands so why bother with an event that restrains you to one hand. As you say, There's no
Re: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo
In gaelic foorball you have to bounce the ball as well. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/18/01 4:52:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: let’s remove the rule about bouncing the basketball (how silly can you get? surely the goal would be best served by letting the player just carry the ball under his/her arm). Wouldn't that be Gaelic football then? Jim Gerweck Running Times __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
re: t-and-f: Johnny Gray vs USOC?
Ken, I think I remember that this letter signing thing has something to do with the USADA (Drug testing group) and his eligibility for Senior US team competition. But, hey, I've been wrong before. MJR
t-and-f: Cornell Invite and Hartshorne Mile
TrackMeets.com will webcast live every lap of every race of the Cornell Invitational and the Hartshorne Masters Mile from Barton Hall in Ithaca, NY, starting 9:30am EST on Saturday. DR KAMAL JABBOUR - Engineer, Educator, Runner, WriterO o 2-222 Center for Science and Technology /|\/ |\ Syracuse University, Syracuse NY 13244-4100 | | Phone 315-443-3000, Fax 315-443-2583 __/ \ \/ \ http://running.syr.edu/jabbour.html\ \
t-and-f: Kelly fast 3000 at NE Challenge Cup
Keith Kelly rolled to an 8:02.79 3000 at the New England Challenge Cup at Boston U on Friday. He led Providence teammates Dermot Galvin (8:11.35) and Adam Sutton (8:12.77) to good early season times. Other top marks: HJ Dave Arundel, Brown, 7'1" Wt BJ Gary, BU, 61'4 1/4" PV Brad Bowery, Brown, 15'7" Full results at www.bu.edu/track Steve Vaitones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo
Hi Ryan, Yes you walk around all day at what pace??? Running is easy to. It all depends how hard you go. You said that when swimming breast stroke one is still going flat out. Thats correct you're going flat out within the "constraints" of doing the breast stroke. Not as fast as the freestyle. Same for race walking, one is going flat out within the constraints of race walking. There comes a point when you cant go any faster without breaking into a run or the freestyle.You ask about the time walkers do for 5K. And then seem to suggest that its easy. Try it some time. Mike -Original Message- From: Ryan Grote [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 January 2001 17:50 To: Mike Casey; Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo No wrong. World Class Racewalker does what for 5k? 17-18 mins?? For a MAN. Take swimming, difference between the fastest stroke freestyle and slowest stroke breastroke is not that extreme. When swimming breaststroke one is still going all-out, pushing to the max. I walk around all day, its easy. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Mike Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Ryan Grote' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 2:06 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Hi Sam, I think the penny might be starting to drop. Namely that each event has a specific set of goals and specific rules. High jumping does as you so rightly said " test the ability to jump high",but within specific rules that constrain the athlete. Freestyle swimming would be the fastest stroke generally and it also tests agility so why bother with the constraints of the other strokes? Let me suggest an answer...because it might test a different set of speed/ skill/agility/motions etc. And this applies also to hurdles, steeple, throwing, putting, jumping, running, and walking. Regards Mike -Original Message- From: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 19:07 To: 'Ryan Grote'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Hey Michael, Hurdles/steeple test agility and speed in as simple a manner as possbile, rather than using an obstacle course. High jumping tests the ability to jump high, therefore, you can't use a pole - thought that was obvious. As for swimming...i swam 2 years in high school and i sucked. But, i must admit that you kind of have a point, though it's borderline because swimming as a whole (all 4 strokes combined) is intended to test agility/coordination as well as speed. Oops, turns out you DON'T have a point. Later, Sam adiRP -Original Message- From: Ryan Grote [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:26 PM To: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] Subject:Fw: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Here's another one, fuckin' idiots!!! Racewalking is NOT like other swimming strokes at all, because with each stroke you use different muscles and still perform at the highest/hardest level. Goddamnit fuckers. Its not like high jumping with a pole, because that isn't jumping. Like you said, how about a walk jump. Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: Michael Casey mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ryan Grote mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; TF List mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Meloro, James mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 4:40 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Hi Ryan, You wrote: . "All these things are silly, and not the best means to achieving the goal of the pursuit or event." I say, Ok I take your point. So let's remove the hurdles, let's allow high jumpers use a pole, remove the steeple barriers, remove the restrictions in the throwing events, and further afield let's do away with all swimming strokes bar the freestyle, let's remove the rule about bouncing the basketball (how silly can you get? surely the goal would be best served by letting the player just carry the ball under his/her arm). Regards Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ryan Grote Sent: 17 January 2001 14:57 To: Mike Casey; TF List Cc: Alexander, Sam [OCDUS non JJ]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meloro, James Subject: t-and-f: Racewalking MumboJumbo Right. Because that would be about running...moving as fast as possible over a given distance. The spikes and blocks would help reach that goal. I wouldn't know too much, as I've never run out of blocks, and all of my PR's from 3000m-1m are in road racing flats. However, the idea in any running event is to move as fast as possible. Running is the
t-and-f: 2 Masters WR at Cornell
Patti Ford of Pompey, NY, ran 5:18.10 FAT at the Harsthorne Masters Mile, a pending age group world record for the indoor mile for women 45-49. In the same heat, Carolyn Smith-Hanna of Pittsford, NY, ran 5:27.30 FAT, also a pending age group world record for women 50-54. TrackMeets.com carried the race live. The archives will be available upon the completion of the Cornell Invitational, which hosts the Hartshorne Mile. Kamal. DR KAMAL JABBOUR - Engineer, Educator, Runner, WriterO o 2-222 Center for Science and Technology /|\/ |\ Syracuse University, Syracuse NY 13244-4100 | | Phone 315-443-3000, Fax 315-443-2583 __/ \ \/ \ http://running.syr.edu/jabbour.html\ \
t-and-f: Century-old U. Central Oklahoma track program faces finish line
Century-old U. Central Oklahoma track program faces finish line Updated 12:00 PM ET January 12, 2001 By Bradley Pemberton The Vista U. Central Oklahoma (U-WIRE) EDMOND, Okla. -- With the ringing in of the new millennium, the death knell sounds for a century-old sports program. The University of Central Oklahoma's track and field program, which began in 1901 and includes cross country and indoor track, will disband after the spring 2001 season. Full Item: http://news.excite.com/news/uw/010112/university-214 == "Simplicity is the peak of civilization." Jessie Sempter _ Visit i-run.com and register for a $75 Road Runner Sports Gift Certificate - Monthly Drawing
t-and-f: Alan Webb
Repost from the New Balance Games: Alan Webb 3rd in the elite mile: 3:59.86 MJR
Re: t-and-f: Webb sub 4
3:59.86 at the NB Games! 3rd pl.
t-and-f: Webb runs 3:59.86
According to a report on Dyestat.com, Alan Webb broke the 4 minute barrier at the New Balance Indoor meet today, running 3:59.86. There is some more information on th dyestat message boards. Looks like we have a great indoor and outdoor season ahead of us.
t-and-f: SEC Quad Meet - Lexington,KY
Results of the SEC Quad hosted by Univ. of KY. available at www.ukathletics.com Georgia, Tennessee, UK, and So. Carolina Jim Kaiser
t-and-f: Webb and the Aussies
Congratulations to Alan Webb on his fine run. This brings to mind the recent debate on US middle distance running and also motivates me to share some Australian junior results I found on the Athletics Australia site yesterday. The following is the result of the Australian All Schools U18 (as at Dec 31 2000) 800m final held on 9 December 2000. I found it fairly impressive that the Aussies had four 16 or 17 year old boys running under 1:52. Perhaps some of our Aussie list members would care to comment. Final Under 18 Men's 800 metres 1. Andrew Oneill (NSW) 1:49.93; 2. Aaron Jones (TAS) 1:50.06; 3. Mitchell Keally (QLD) 1:51.60; 4. Sam Hall (NSW) 1:51.71; 5. Daniel Adams (QLD) 1:54.20; 6. Tom Richardson (NSW) 1:54.61; 7. Scott Gittoes (QLD) 1:55.33; 8. Andrew Barker (VIC) 1:55.34; 9. Adam Donegan (WA) 1:55.60. Jim Rogers _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
t-and-f: Ryan Hall 4:09.46 - Angel Perkins Wins Open Women's 500y
Ryan Hall 4:09.46 - other good action in LA Invitational Sports Arena A HREF="http://prep.caltrack.com/"Click here: prep.Caltrack.com LA Indoor Coverage/A Doug Speck
