Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Reception/Reception_Point/Reception_Area
sent from a phone Am 28.07.2015 um 11:29 schrieb Kotya Karapetyan kotya.li...@gmail.com: information=reception I see information slightly different from reception: information is for everybody and does not include something like a kind of check in, a reception treats people different according to who they are (more individual treatment) and does also work like a checkin (register people, hand out letters, ). I agree that in some cases these words are used interchangeably. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
Hi, we have a following issue at mapy.cz (zooms cca 13 are OSM data). We try to render primary road overview in Czech republic, so the drivers could easily see where its possible to drive. But sometimes the primary road ends and continues as a secondary road - it could be in cites, or possibly temporary detour. (see links below) Is there any recommended solution already availible? Otherwise we have two solutions to discuss. 1) technically the small secondary roads part works as primary road network. So we would suggest a tag similar to works_as_highway=primary. Do you think its ok? Any suggestions? 2) less preferable solution would be to add render specific tag. Something like low_zoom_as_higway=primary. Thanks for reply, Pavel Zbytovský [1] http://www.mapy.cz/s/hf6Y http://www.osm.org/way/27074773 [2] http://www.mapy.cz/s/k35L http://www.osm.org/way/49798938 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
sent from a phone Am 28.07.2015 um 11:02 schrieb Pavel Zbytovský zbytov...@gmail.com: 1) technically the small secondary roads part works as primary road network. So we would suggest a tag similar to works_as_highway=primary. Do you think its ok? Any suggestions? from what you have written it seems to me that these are tagging errors: if a road works as primary it should get the primary tag in osm. Country specific deviations that result from following different criteria (like road maintenance class / entity, or physical criteria, etc.) should be repaired (map those properties differently and not in the highway tag) and the highway tag should be used like it is elsewhere. OSM is a global dataset and following everywhere the same criteria to determine the highway tag is important for a smooth usage of the data across borders. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki
2015-07-28 23:59 GMT+02:00 Hubert sg.fo...@gmx.de: On 28. Juli 2015 22:32 Ruben Maes [mailto:ruben.mae...@gmail.com] wrote: 2015-07-25 15:24 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com: It's also perhaps worth mentioning that the 18th Feb change (which you - and I - preferred the previous version to) was made by a wiki editor who's since been blocked (3). (3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xxzme For clarification: I didn't write that. Sorry, my bad, got the quotes messed up. It was Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com who wrote it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
On 28/07/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 28.07.2015 um 11:02 schrieb Pavel Zbytovský zbytov...@gmail.com: 1) technically the small secondary roads part works as primary road network. So we would suggest a tag similar to works_as_highway=primary. Do you think its ok? Any suggestions? from what you have written it seems to me that these are tagging errors: if a road works as primary it should get the primary tag in osm. Country specific deviations that result from following different criteria (like road maintenance class / entity, or physical criteria, etc.) should be repaired (map those properties differently and not in the highway tag) and the highway tag should be used like it is elsewhere. Sorry but no, too simplistic. A lot of local OSM communities follow the official national road classification where possible. For example in Ireland, any ref=Nxx road with xx51 is highway=trunk, and switches to highway=primary when xx50. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ireland/Roads This makes sense because it is expected by any Irish driver and map user. While it does result in some road classification changes without any physical changes, this just reflects the administrative reality. OSM is a global dataset and following everywhere the same criteria to determine the highway tag is important for a smooth usage of the data across borders. That ideal doesn't match the practical reality. highway=primary has a very different definition between Ethiopia and Germany, by necessity. A global uniform standard for highway=* would be pretty unusable. But we do use a collection of local standards, so we have local consistency (hopefully at least at the national level), which is the most important thing. That said, there are plenty of tags other than highway that are usefull and objective: maxspeed, lanes, width, traffic lights, speed bunps, and even surface (but that one is getting subjective again). Go map them, in that rough order of priority. They are used by routing software and solve the OP's question for routing. If you want to use those tags for rendering, talk to your map style developer (you'd need to do that anyway to make use of works_as_primary). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:14 PM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: That ideal doesn't match the practical reality. highway=primary has a very different definition between Ethiopia and Germany, by necessity. While they can be very different, a router should still be able to prefer a primary road to navigate you from city A to B and avoid secondary or tertiary roads. Of course in Germany it might be a smooth asphalted road and in another country a sand road, but that doesn't matter. Are the current router properly routing over the Irish roads ? Can they properly deal with the classification changes ? Or are those changes ignored because the speed limits are properly tagged. regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
On 28/07/2015, Pavel Zbytovský zbytov...@gmail.com wrote: Since nobody objected much, i would probably go with works_as_highway=primary - i think it reflects the state of reality, so its useful to be added in OSM dataset. FWIW, I'm not a big fan of this, because it is just a variation of tagging for the renderer, with no support by current rendering styles to begin with. Routers should already have no problem with the data. That said, I don't see a better tag that your style could use to decide displaying that road (from your 1st example) earlyer. The maxspeed is just 50 and there are only two lanes, that seems like weak arguments for force early display. What I'm going to say may sound beside the point, but I suggest you simply ignore this as a non-problem. Leave the data and rendering as-is : * If the user asks for routing, the secondary road will be used properly. * If the user is looking at a low-zoom rendering, he's probably only interested in a rough idea anyway like I'll get near Praha using this primary road, and can probably reach city center from there. * If the user zooms in, he'll see the secondary road. See ? No problem to be solved :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
sent from a phone Am 28.07.2015 um 16:14 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com: Sorry but no, too simplistic. A lot of local OSM communities follow the official national road classification where possible. That's too simplistic ;-) That ideal doesn't match the practical reality. highway=primary has a very different definition between Ethiopia and Germany, by necessity actually it hasn't, it has the same definition while the actual physical appearance might be very different. On the other hand, as it seems, Ireland and Poland might have different definitions ;-) Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
Thanks for updates, yes, we have similar rules as Ireland. Since nobody objected much, i would probably go with works_as_highway=primary - i think it reflects the state of reality, so its useful to be added in OSM dataset. Regards, Pavel út 28. 7. 2015 v 16:33 odesílatel Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com napsal: On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:14 PM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: That ideal doesn't match the practical reality. highway=primary has a very different definition between Ethiopia and Germany, by necessity. While they can be very different, a router should still be able to prefer a primary road to navigate you from city A to B and avoid secondary or tertiary roads. Of course in Germany it might be a smooth asphalted road and in another country a sand road, but that doesn't matter. Are the current router properly routing over the Irish roads ? Can they properly deal with the classification changes ? Or are those changes ignored because the speed limits are properly tagged. regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
On 28/07/2015, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 4:14 PM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: That ideal doesn't match the practical reality. highway=primary has a very different definition between Ethiopia and Germany, by necessity. While they can be very different, a router should still be able to prefer a primary road to navigate you from city A to B and avoid secondary or tertiary roads. Of course in Germany it might be a smooth asphalted road and in another country a sand road, but that doesn't matter. Are the current router properly routing over the Irish roads ? Can they properly deal with the classification changes ? Or are those changes ignored because the speed limits are properly tagged. I was arguing against a worldwide unified classification. What you're worried about is only local classification : A router won't care about classification differences between far away places like Germany to Ethiopia. They just care about taking the best road in the area, and as long as OSM is locally consistent, this works. Even if a trunk turns into a primary for no physical reason and without additional helpfull tags like maxspeed, a router likely won't be thrown off and avoid the primary, because there's nothing better than the primary_which_used_to_be_trunk around. One routing error that came up recently is a trunk with a lower than typical maxspeed, and a trunk_link without a maxspeed tag. The router used its default idea of maxspeed for that link, and tried to use it as a shortcut. The router could have been smarter, but the data should have been more complete too, adding a naxspeed tag. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
On Jul 28, 2015, at 8:29 AM, moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com wrote: One routing error that came up recently is a trunk with a lower than typical maxspeed, and a trunk_link without a maxspeed tag. The router used its default idea of maxspeed for that link, and tried to use it as a shortcut. The router could have been smarter, but the data should have been more complete too, adding a naxspeed tag. There are almost no motorway_link roads in the United States with a posted speed limit at all. And if a speed is posted, it is nearly always an advisory value rather than a mandatory limit. How should one tag what one sees on the ground for that? For what it is worth, the only router I’ve seen that has an issue is OSMand. And the fix is easy (I’ve done it in my routing.xml). Just because the developers of one routing engine need help is no reason to make up fake data to keep it happy. Tod ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
uto, 28. srp 2015. 11:53 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com je napisao: from what you have written it seems to me that these are tagging errors: if a road works as primary it should get the primary tag in osm. Country specific deviations that result from following different criteria (like road maintenance class / entity, or physical criteria, etc.) should be repaired (map those properties differently and not in the highway tag) and the highway tag should be used like it is elsewhere. OSM is a global dataset and following everywhere the same criteria to determine the highway tag is important for a smooth usage of the data across borders. Cheers Martin +1 I agree with everything. The 1:1 relation between various countries official road clasification and OSM is not something we should want. We should be flexible. In Croatia we have people that break roads in several places and then you have secondary/unclassified/secondary just because the road crossed city boundary: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.3399/16.4297 There's just no sense to keep up with that. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki
FYI: I just took the liberty of changing the highway=footway definition back to the pre Feb 18th Version. -Original Message- From: Andy Townsend [mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com] Sent: Samstag, 25. Juli 2015 15:25 To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki On 25/07/2015 13:43, Hubert wrote: Am 24. Juli 2015 um 17:50 schrieb Heiko Eckenreiter [mailto:heiko.eckenrei...@gmx.net] : Am 24.07.2015 um 17:24 schrieb Hubert: But only the way with the traffic sign will be tagged with bicycle=designated, foot=designated using the definition in the description box That is not logical, because both ways are still equally designated to pedestrians and cyclist in both situations. Today in OSM it's documented, only the ways signposted with a traffic sign should be tagged with *=designated (as described on the cited page access=designated and much more). The only wiki page with such a strict formulation I could find is the highway=footway page [1] : highway=footway is used for signposted paths designated for pedestrians only. Signposted footpaths are primarily common in residential areas, but may also exist out-of-town in recreational environments, parks etc.. . But in this context one must agree that highway=footway is equal to highway=path, foot=designated. Also this was only changed recently by Geow on June 28th. Bevor that it read : highway=footway is mainly used for residential paths designated for pedestrians only. And till Feb 18th : The tag highway=footway is used for mapping minor pathways which are used mainly or exclusively by pedestrians. Which is the definition I prefer. I believe that the recent edits to the highway=footway page by Geow resulted in it not reflecting the usage of the key - it seems to be telling people how to use a key not documenting how they do use it. I did raise it with the user concerned (1) (and interestingly other users have raised similar problems there too) but frankly have no wish to get into a wiki edit war or even a discussion with someone who doesn't even edit the map (or at least, not in that name) (2). It's also perhaps worth mentioning that the 18th Feb change (which you - and I - preferred the previous version to) was made by a wiki editor who's since been blocked (3). I only spotted the wiki change because someone spotted a large number of footways that I had surveyed being changed into paths without any information to give a clue as to physical type. We've seen other similar instances where well-meaning but ignorant wiki edits have resulted in well-meaning but ignorant tag correctors corrupting map data (changing wood=deciduous to leaf_type=broadleaved was one). Personally, to try and make sense of pages in our wiki I tend to view the history and look at the last edit by a sensible person, taking particular care to read the previous version to anything labelled e.g. cleanup. Cheers, Andy (1) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Geow (2) http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Geow (3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xxzme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] works_as_highway=primary
sent from a phone Am 28.07.2015 um 17:57 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com: That said, I don't see a better tag that your style could use to decide displaying that road rather than adding a tag: render like a primary you should check what it is that you are after (e.g. maintenance entity/class or designed network road class) and use an appropriate tag to store this information so you can render the map the way you like. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki
On 28/07/2015 17:35, Hubert wrote: FYI: I just took the liberty of changing the highway=footway definition back to the pre Feb 18th Version. \o/ Thanks for that. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki
2015-07-25 15:24 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com: On 25/07/2015 13:43, Hubert wrote: It's also perhaps worth mentioning that the 18th Feb change (which you - and I - preferred the previous version to) was made by a wiki editor who's since been blocked (3). (3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xxzme Xxzme did nothing wrong there, he just removed an image that was there twice, a very sensible edit[1]. I mean, don't blame him for things he didn't do, it's bad enough as it stands :p Geow made all the mess. [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:highway%3Dfootwaydiff=1160471oldid=1141274 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] access=designated wiki
For clarification: I didn't write that. On 28. Juli 2015 22:32 Ruben Maes [mailto:ruben.mae...@gmail.com] wrote: 2015-07-25 15:24 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com: On 25/07/2015 13:43, Hubert wrote: It's also perhaps worth mentioning that the 18th Feb change (which you - and I - preferred the previous version to) was made by a wiki editor who's since been blocked (3). (3) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Xxzme attachment: winmail.dat___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
