Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Sérgio V .]

Thanks.

What looks weirdest is that it seems it was not a "no nactive list".

The last posts were 3 months ago, 2017, not much, nor 2015.

It seems people were talking and answering each other recently there:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/diversity-talk/2017-October/date.html

but being the list out of

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk
sadly this way it's sure other people couldn't have known.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



De: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Enviado: segunda-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2018 19:53
Para: Rory McCann
Cc: Sérgio V. ; talk@openstreetmap.org
Assunto: Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list



sent from a phone

> On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
>
> Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> are interested in diversity.


yes, it’s a shame.

Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo page 
anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be linked 
anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Kate Chapman]

I shut down the list because it was not being used and instead I was ending
up having to read a bunch of spam.

If someone wants to moderate and admin the list I'm sure it could be
brought back.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
> >
> > Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> > are interested in diversity.
>
>
> yes, it’s a shame.
>
> Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo
> page anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be
> linked anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:59:31AM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 10:17, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> > > On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> > > >
> > > >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > > > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > > > or restaurants.
> > > > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > > > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > > > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika
> > 
> > To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
> > the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
> > the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
> > ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher.
> 
> I would expect that a bounding box has precedence over other tags. Why would
> a wikipedia tag have precedence over the bounding box and a name tag not?

It is not a question of precedence. Nominatim looks at different
factors at the same time: the view box, how well-known a place
is (aka wikipedia importance), how well the name of the place matches
your query etc. It takes all these into account weighs them against
each other and comes to a ranking of results.

> But then I still don't understand.
> In the bugreport I have the example of the shop "kruidvat" (it is a chain of
> stores in the Netherlands).
> The bounding box is 6.16575,51.36926,6.17049,51.36759 which centers on the
> Kruidvat store in Venlo [1]. Nominatim returns the kruidvat in Amsterdam
> [2].
> Both nodes have a website tag with the same value. Both nodes have the same
> tags, expect that one has a source tag.
> Then still, why is the boundingbox not looked at _at all_? It's not like
> it's the second or third result, it is the 12th result where all other
> results have similar tags and the results are the same whatever bounding box
> you use.

Interesting. So in this case the importance actually happend to accidentally
cancel out the viewbox influence. I've pushed a preliminary fix to the osm.org
instance. It won't fix the McDonalds or Walmart issues though. They are problems
of a different kind.

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
> 
> Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> are interested in diversity.


yes, it’s a shame.

Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo page 
anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be linked 
anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.


Cheers,
Martin 
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[OSM-talk] Fw: Nominatim on the main page

[Andrew Hain]

From: Andrew Hain 
Sent: 19 February 2018 21:50
To: Sarah Hoffmann
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page


It’s unfortunate that a new user mapping mistake has such unfortunate 
consequences.


--

Andrew



From: Sarah Hoffmann 
Sent: 19 February 2018 09:17
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
> > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> >
> >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > or restaurants.
> > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika

To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher. That naturally only works
when the wikipedia tags actually link to a wikipedia page that
describes the object. It leads to funny results when the link goes
to category pages or, like in this case, to the company description.

Alternatively: I've proposed a GSoC to overhaul the Wikipedia
importances that Nominatim uses. Getting rid of this particular
problem from the Nominatim side would be part of this job.

For more information, see:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas#Nominatim

There are also two other topics proposed and if you have another particular
itch you want to sratch, there are surely ways they can be transformed into
a GSoC topic. Just send me a email or open an issue in github. It would be 
wonderful, if
we find some students interested in geocoding this year.

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Andrew Hain]

Hopefully anyone who revives the topic will find a way to avoid the 
circumstances of the original list’s demise.


--

Andrew



From: Rory McCann 
Sent: 19 February 2018 09:47
To: Sérgio V.; talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
are interested in diversity.

GMane, which is a mailing list-to-NNTP service still seems to be still
up and hosting it as a newsgroup, so you can post messages to that
newsgroup.

On 17/02/18 20:56, Sérgio V. wrote:
> Hi, I've just realized that in the
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity
Diversity - OpenStreetMap Wiki
wiki.openstreetmap.org
How can we increase diversity in OSM? Gender; Sexuality; Race/ethnicity; 
Disability; Age; Religion; Class; Region; Language; other? Discussions 
within/about OSM


> at the bottom, /Resources,
>
> there's no such link to
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk
>
> If you click there , or search for it, it returns "No such list
> diversity-talk".
>
> Is it still alive?
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo_256-cde84d7490f0863c7a0b0d0a420834ebd467c1214318167d0f9a39f25a44d6bd.png]

smaprs | OpenStreetMap
www.openstreetmap.org
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use 
under an open license.




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[OSM-talk] OSM and Gender

[Heather Leson]

Hello,

We are hosting an online discussion about Gender and OSM. See details in my
diary note as well as the doodle for scheduling. Add your availability by
Thursday of this week so that we can announce the times.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/diary/43345

We will host a few conversations on this topic. This is the first scheduled
one. It will be hosted on mumble.

Thanks

Heather Leson and Kate Chapman

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Jorge Gustavo Rocha]

Thanks, Sarah! That really helps to start contributing.

Regards,

Gustavo

On 19-02-2018 09:31, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:15:57PM +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 18-02-2018 19:21, Milo van der Linden wrote:
>>> With 103 open issues and 12 open pull requests, I would love to
>>> volunteer to at least help get those cleared first. Given the (very
>>> positive, I am glad so many people are acting on this thread)
>>> activity, I think if everybody lends a couple of hours of code this
>>> week we can get nominatim ready to make some progress.
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I did not blame before, because I never contributed to nominatim. I'll
>> take some time this week to review issues and PR (although this week is
>> the QGIS hackfest).
>>
>> But definitely, I'll use the open data day [1] dedicated to nominatim.
>> Maybe we can have a virtual meeting on March 3rd dedicated to nominatim
>> to coordinate actions.
> 
> Awesome. Nominatim can use all the help it can get.
> 
> The open PRs marked 'Changes requested' are an excellent place to start
> with. Those are changes that are good in general but unfortunately have
> been abandoned by the original author very close before the finish line.
> 
> I have also marked a couple of issue as 'simple'. They are good to get
> used to the code base before tackling the harder ones.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Sarah
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Rory McCann]

That's awesome!

Now you gotta set up a data replication update, but delayed by 10 years.
So the map will always be 10 years out of date :D

On 19/02/18 16:46, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Hi folks,

I've seen a lot of tile servers showing how OSM looked in 2006 or 2007. The map 
was an awful spaghetti of broken roads back then, and it looked like half the 
data were lost. So I decided to get a proper API 0.5 planet dump — and since 
the switch happened in late 2017, going back from the current date exactly ten 
years seemed a good choice.

The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when you cut 
USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the latest OSM Carto 
3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked exactly ten years ago:

http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

My server is a bit slow, so be patient. It has the whole world except for the 
United States. I might update it in a few months, so the delta is still ten 
years.

Have fun looking up your cities,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 19 February 2018 at 16:46, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> Checked out the latest OSM Carto 3.x style

Cool work! If you run osm2pgsql with '--hstore' and
'--tag-transform-script openstreetmap-carto.lua', I'd expect that the
4.0 branch of OSM carto will also work.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 19 February 2018, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
> The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when
> you cut USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the
> latest OSM Carto 3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked
> exactly ten years ago:
>
> http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

Have you tried running OSMCoastline on that planet?  Might be tricky but 
would significantly improve the realism of the historic image.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

I've seen a lot of tile servers showing how OSM looked in 2006 or 2007. The map 
was an awful spaghetti of broken roads back then, and it looked like half the 
data were lost. So I decided to get a proper API 0.5 planet dump — and since 
the switch happened in late 2017, going back from the current date exactly ten 
years seemed a good choice.

The planet file for 20.02.2008 is slightly over 3 gigabytes, but when you cut 
USA out, you're left with a 400 MB pbf file. Checked out the latest OSM Carto 
3.x style, and voila — OpenStreetMap as it looked exactly ten years ago:

http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html

My server is a bit slow, so be patient. It has the whole world except for the 
United States. I might update it in a few months, so the delta is still ten 
years.

Have fun looking up your cities,
Ilya
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[OSM-talk] US Highway 266

[Paul Johnson]

Can we get a block, perhaps permanently, on this user?  36 edits have been
bad, out of 38 total.  User does not appear to be reasonable in various
changeset threads, 36 of which have been his inability to deal with the
Liberty Parkway rename by the state legislature from over a decade ago.
It's just getting rediculous at this point.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-02-19 10:17, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:

On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> wrote:
>
> > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:

> > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
>
>  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> or restaurants.
> For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika


To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher.


I would expect that a bounding box has precedence over other tags. Why 
would a wikipedia tag have precedence over the bounding box and a name 
tag not?


But then I still don't understand.
In the bugreport I have the example of the shop "kruidvat" (it is a 
chain of stores in the Netherlands).
The bounding box is 6.16575,51.36926,6.17049,51.36759 which centers on 
the Kruidvat store in Venlo [1]. Nominatim returns the kruidvat in 
Amsterdam [2].
Both nodes have a website tag with the same value. Both nodes have the 
same tags, expect that one has a source tag.
Then still, why is the boundingbox not looked at _at all_? It's not like 
it's the second or third result, it is the 12th result where all other 
results have similar tags and the results are the same whatever bounding 
box you use.


I can accept that the website tag raises the ranking, but that doesn't 
apply in this case since all nodes have the same website tag. It still 
looks like the bounding box is not used at all.


I have another example: [3] centers on a restaurant called "Sint Maria" 
[4]
Entering this in Nominatim [5] gives tram stops in Brussels, churches 
and graveyards in Germany. None of which have a website tag.


[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2931123803
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2862337526
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.32897/5.97973
[4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3008677405
[5] 
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=sint+maria&polygon_geojson=1&viewbox=5.97762%2C51.32981%2C5.98209%2C51.32813



Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Rory McCann]

Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
are interested in diversity.

GMane, which is a mailing list-to-NNTP service still seems to be still
up and hosting it as a newsgroup, so you can post messages to that
newsgroup.

On 17/02/18 20:56, Sérgio V. wrote:

Hi, I've just realized that in the

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity
at the bottom, /Resources,

there's no such link to

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk

If you click there , or search for it, it returns "No such list 
diversity-talk".


Is it still alive?


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:15:57PM +, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:
> 
> 
> On 18-02-2018 19:21, Milo van der Linden wrote:
> > With 103 open issues and 12 open pull requests, I would love to
> > volunteer to at least help get those cleared first. Given the (very
> > positive, I am glad so many people are acting on this thread)
> > activity, I think if everybody lends a couple of hours of code this
> > week we can get nominatim ready to make some progress.
> > 
> 
> +1
> 
> I did not blame before, because I never contributed to nominatim. I'll
> take some time this week to review issues and PR (although this week is
> the QGIS hackfest).
> 
> But definitely, I'll use the open data day [1] dedicated to nominatim.
> Maybe we can have a virtual meeting on March 3rd dedicated to nominatim
> to coordinate actions.

Awesome. Nominatim can use all the help it can get.

The open PRs marked 'Changes requested' are an excellent place to start
with. Those are changes that are good in general but unfortunately have
been abandoned by the original author very close before the finish line.

I have also marked a couple of issue as 'simple'. They are good to get
used to the code base before tackling the harder ones.

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 08:12:45PM +0100, Maarten Deen wrote:
> On 2018-02-18 20:07, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Maarten Deen 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2018-02-18 19:28, Tom Hughes wrote:
> 
> > > I can't comment about how the algorithm works because I don't know
> > > anything about it. I'm just saying that we do tell it the viewbox
> > 
> >  It appears to me that the bounding box is used when searching places
> > (towns, cities) or streets, but not when searching objects like shops
> > or restaurants.
> > For instance, searching for a McDonald's always gives me the
> > McDonald's at 1351, George Dieter Drive, El Paso City, El Paso County,
> > Texas, 79936, Verenigde Staten van Amerika

To fix that please delete all the wikipedia=McDonalds tags from
the McDonalds restaurants that show up inappropriately. Nominatim uses
the wikipedia links to determine how well known a place might be and
ranks places with a wikipedia tag higher. That naturally only works
when the wikipedia tags actually link to a wikipedia page that
describes the object. It leads to funny results when the link goes
to category pages or, like in this case, to the company description.

Alternatively: I've proposed a GSoC to overhaul the Wikipedia
importances that Nominatim uses. Getting rid of this particular
problem from the Nominatim side would be part of this job.

For more information, see:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas#Nominatim

There are also two other topics proposed and if you have another particular
itch you want to sratch, there are surely ways they can be transformed into
a GSoC topic. Just send me a email or open an issue in github. It would be 
wonderful, if
we find some students interested in geocoding this year.

Kind regards

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] Nominatim on the main page

[Komяpa]

>
> Have a look at the OSMF board, a mixed bunch of people elected by the
> members. Are you sure that a seasoned developer or sysadmin would even
> *want* a paid job where they are subject to the whims of an elected
> board, with a potentially modified "strategy" year after year (as
> majorities change due to new elections)? Would that not be a job like
> Dilbert's with his pointy-haired boss?
>

Would such a person take this position voluntarily and unpaid?

Existing stable devs and sysadmins are paid with "unlimited power" in the
project now. Is that a good thing? If we get more devs/sysadmins "for
free", we're splitting the "unlimited" into halves effectively making it
limited and much less appealing. Can we replace "a free unlimited power"
payment we give to dev/sysadmins now with any other scalable means, be that
money or anything other?
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