Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
No. You've already fallen in the rabbit hole.. The next thing is to begin your study of randomness. HeHeHeHe... Don - Original Message - From: Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy -- From: Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:12 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Sure Chuck. What I was talking about was a part of statistics that we in our gnat-hair-splitting compulsive group may forget about. Let's assume that our 100,000 standards were carefully calibrated against THE standard. There is a small amount of error in the calibration process. Let us even assume that the error in the calibration process is normally distributed. It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same direction, compared to the standard's value. Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty heads. The smart bet is that it won't. Chuck Harris wrote: That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards must be calibrated to some primary standard. If all 100,000 of your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they will all have values that hover around that wrong value. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
It is possible for 100k secondary standards average to be skewed if they were calibrated to the same primary standard. All the primary standards would have to different for the secondary average to be an real average. Coin toss analogy would be slightly different if the coins were all different shapes and sizes.. but probably not! It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same direction, compared to the standard's value. Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty heads. The smart bet is that it won't. -- Raj, VU2ZAP Bangalore, India. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Maxim has a number of voltage reference chips. I built one using a 2.5 vdc output. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Roy Phillips phill...@btinternet.com Sent: Jan 12, 2010 3:19 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy -- From: Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:12 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
There are numbers of low power references I like to take 2-3 of these put them together with 3 resistors to average the diff. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.netwrote: Maxim has a number of voltage reference chips. I built one using a 2.5 vdc output. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Roy Phillips phill...@btinternet.com Sent: Jan 12, 2010 3:19 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy -- From: Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:12 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
a...@comcast.net said: It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same direction, compared to the standard's value. Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty heads. The smart bet is that it won't. You need to consider systematic errors. 50 heads is simple if you are using a 2 headed coin. Yes, that's an extreme example. But consider 100,000 pendulums that are all right-on and then the temperature changes. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT Hi Nic, please goto febo.com/pipermail/volt-nuts; John Ackermann opened a parallel mailing list to time-nuts to have a distinct discussion platform. I'm interested also, what kind of reference is used in the Silicon Chip magazine..is it LTZ1000 based? A single volt-reference would be sufficient, if it is calibrated peridiocally, i.e. if its drift rate is determined during at least 5 calibrations or so. In this case, a certainty of around 1ppm would be achievable. A 2nd reference would be better for keeping a working standard at home while the other is out for calibration. And an ensemble of 4 is good for averaging the VOLT below 1 ppm. Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Roy, The standard is based on the Analog Devices AD588 chip. http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD588.pdf You can buy the magazine article at http://siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111365/article.html Regards, Nic Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
I'm picturing 100,000 pendula in a cave, all gravity locked to their neighbors. (How small would they have to be to fit into the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico?) So, how much would the temperature gradient have to be to break the lock? Ah, maybe it isn't gravity, but the common floor support. What a great day for thought experiments. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Hal Murray Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:28 PM But consider 100,000 pendulums that are all right-on and then the temperature changes. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hmmm... gravity locking. I wonder if you could actually power a torsion pendulum that way? -John == I'm picturing 100,000 pendula in a cave, all gravity locked to their neighbors. (How small would they have to be to fit into the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico?) So, how much would the temperature gradient have to be to break the lock? Ah, maybe it isn't gravity, but the common floor support. What a great day for thought experiments. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Wow thats a nice chip indeed On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com wrote: Roy, The standard is based on the Analog Devices AD588 chip. http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD588.pdf You can buy the magazine article at http://siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111365/article.html Regards, Nic Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
True, but there is always a probability that they all happen to be off one way. Quite a small probability, but not impossible. Sorry for the disturbing thought. In the case of the 732A, and the early 732B, this is in fact the case! Fluke mentioned, that all the 732A and the early 732B containing the Motorola reference had a systematic positive drift, whereas the later 732B, LTZ1000 based, showed a negative drift. Ref.: fluke.ae/comx/applications/deaver_msc01.pdf Therefore, for an ensemble of references, it is important to have a very good instant calibration (referred to a Josephson effect based standard), plus a determination of the annual drift rate by repeated calibration. Only then, statistical improvement by an ensemble makes sense. Btw.: Many artifact references cannot/define/ the VOLT: Such a definition by Weston ensembles drifted apart 10ppm between the different National Standard Institutes during the years. Only the introduction of the 'Josephson-Volt' in 1970 lead to the reproducibilty of the VOLT within 1e-9 worldwide. But the VOLT still is uncertain by 1e-7 in the SI system.. Perhaps next year this will change by redefinition of the SI-System (h, e, k, kg,..). Frank ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
b...@iaxs.net said: I'm picturing 100,000 pendula in a cave, all gravity locked to their neighbors. (How small would they have to be to fit into the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico?) Wikipedia says: Big Room or The Hall of the Giants The largest chamber in Carlsbad Caverns, with a floor space of 33,210 m2 (357,469 sq ft). So that's 3 sq ft per clock. Round up for all the other parts of the cave. Round down for the edges that aren't tall enough. That's ignoring height. You could also stack them on top of each other, at least in some places. Tuxedo Park has a good story. Loomis had 3 of the Shortt clocks. They were down in a basement room dug out of bedrock. He had to work hard to get them not to lock up. He found that when he placed the clocks in the corners of an equilateral triangle, facing inward, the coupling was broken. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Were you guys around (about a year back, I think) when this reference was mentioned? http://www.voltagestandard.com/ Seems like excellent price/performance to me. I see he has a more accurate, more expensive model too. paul swed wrote: Wow thats a nice chip indeed On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Nic McLean mcle...@bigpond.com wrote: Roy, The standard is based on the Analog Devices AD588 chip. http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD588.pdf You can buy the magazine article at http://siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_111365/article.html Regards, Nic Hi Nick Is it possible to let us have the schematic/details of this SC Magazine Voltage Reference project, thanks Roy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Bill Hawkins wrote: I'm picturing 100,000 pendula in a cave, all gravity locked to their neighbors. (How small would they have to be to fit into the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico?) Gravity-lock? Wouldn't just the ordinary sound-waves be sufficient? With a pendulum there will be mechanical bending and torsion as it swings here and there... here and there... far more likely than the gravity shift of the swings. Regardless, even for well balanced, counter-swinging and whatever, putting distance between two clocks will reduce both acoustical and gravity coupling between them. Acoustical damping adapted to the pendulum rate would also help, both as a transmitter and as a receiver, just as with any EMC case. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hi For open box pendulums, the air swishing around in the cave should be very effective at locking every single one of them up. For something like a vacuum enclosed clock you would need lock modes that are a bit more crazy. Bob On Jan 12, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Bill Hawkins wrote: I'm picturing 100,000 pendula in a cave, all gravity locked to their neighbors. (How small would they have to be to fit into the main cave at Carlsbad Caverns, New Mexico?) Gravity-lock? Wouldn't just the ordinary sound-waves be sufficient? With a pendulum there will be mechanical bending and torsion as it swings here and there... here and there... far more likely than the gravity shift of the swings. Regardless, even for well balanced, counter-swinging and whatever, putting distance between two clocks will reduce both acoustical and gravity coupling between them. Acoustical damping adapted to the pendulum rate would also help, both as a transmitter and as a receiver, just as with any EMC case. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Mike Naruta AA8K wrote: Sure Chuck. What I was talking about was a part of statistics that we in our gnat-hair-splitting compulsive group may forget about. Let's assume that our 100,000 standards were carefully calibrated against THE standard. There is a small amount of error in the calibration process. Let us even assume that the error in the calibration process is normally distributed. It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same direction, compared to the standard's value. Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty heads. The smart bet is that it won't. Well, if the distribution of these is only random and of benign randomness like gaussian noise. If you have an aging mechanism for instance, over time this huge set would drift in that direction and that would produce a moving average value... The rate of calibration to a primary standard would be one of the parameters needed to set the limit of drift. So, systematic drift is not canceled by large number statistics. It just doest not obey the underlying assumption. Long-term noise of clocks obery the f^-3 noise which does not converge nicely and statistical measures needs to be adapted to provide reasnoble measures. This is why we have ADEV and friends. Again, this is why you need to separate stability with reproducability aspects. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Hal Murray wrote: a...@comcast.net said: It is not impossible that for a sample of 100,000 secondary standards, that the errors would be all be off in the same direction, compared to the standard's value. Now, granted, this would be a small probability indeed. But it is possible to toss a coin fifty times and have fifty heads. The smart bet is that it won't. You need to consider systematic errors. 50 heads is simple if you are using a 2 headed coin. Yes, that's an extreme example. Consider lead-head and aluminium-back-sided coins. Systematic bias. Consider that the same coin is used for many tosses, the lead would wear off over time, so you have an aging mechanism which shifts the statistics. But consider 100,000 pendulums that are all right-on and then the temperature changes. Temperature gradients always occur from one end of the cave? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics! Sorry. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same direction. Sorry. Bill Hawkins wrote: Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics! Sorry. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same direction. Sorry. Bill Hawkins wrote: Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics! Sorry. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
True, but there is always a probability that they all happen to be off one way. Quite a small probability, but not impossible. Sorry for the disturbing thought. :) john.fo...@gmail.com wrote: But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same direction. Sorry. Bill Hawkins wrote: Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics! Sorry. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
If you had 100,000 standards, you could probably DEFINE the volt. -John == But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same direction. Sorry. Bill Hawkins wrote: Ah, but a man with 14 standards can use statistics! Sorry. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
At 10:26 PM 1/11/2010, john.fo...@gmail.com wrote... But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) Unfortunately, Murphy's Law always wins. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) a...@comcast.net said: True, but there is always a probability that they all happen to be off one way. Quite a small probability, but not impossible. I'm not so sure it's small. Suppose they are all calibrated to the same buggy source? Or suppose they all started correct but have a common aging mechanism? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
Google 'Volt Nuts'. Then continue to the website. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Nic McLean Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:12 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Hi All, I have been a time nut for some time now. I think I've become a Volt nut too! I build the Silicon Chip magazine Voltage reference late last year but didn't have anything to compare it against so I bought a Fluke 732A DC reference standard. I there a group I can subscribe to that can help me with this? Can I coin the phrase; A man that has one DC Voltage standard knows how accurate his meter is, whereas a man with two standards is not quite sure! Regards, Nic VK2KXN VK5ZAT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too.
That will only be true of primary standards. Secondary standards must be calibrated to some primary standard. If all 100,000 of your secondary standards were calibrated to the wrong value, they will all have values that hover around that wrong value. -Chuck Harris john.fo...@gmail.com wrote: But if you had 1000 references, or maybe 100,000, the law of large numbers would be on your side =) Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:24:30 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I think I've become a Volt nut too. Ah, but it is possible that all 14 could be off in the same direction. Sorry. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
