Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Risker]

Heh.  So the Wikimedia representative was in Finland?

Still a bit of correction coming, I think.

Risker/Anne


On 3 March 2014 14:05, Stryn@Wikimedia  wrote:

> The corrected report seems to be
>
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia
>
> Regards,
>
>
> *Stryn*
>
> Hi Phillippe,
>
> I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says "despite a press
> report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
> report has since been retracted and corrected"
>
> However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..
>
> Alex
>
> [1]
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising
>
> On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette  > wrote:
>
> >* Hi Alex,
> *>>* I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday,
> and
> *>* our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email
> confirmation
> *>* from the authorities that the document had been received and we called
> them
> *>* as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
> *>* writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
> *>* document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.
> *>>* Best,
> *>* pb
> *>>>* *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> *>* Foundation, Inc.
> *>*  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  philippe at wikimedia.org
>   |  :
> *>* @Philippewiki >
> *>>>* On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk  > wrote:
> *>>* > Apparently they got no response:
> *>* >
> *>* >
> *>*
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
> <
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
> >
> *>* >
> *>* >
> *>* > On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell  > wrote:
> *>* >
> *>* > > Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
> *>* > >
> *>* > > 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu  aalto.fi >:
> *>* > > > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  > wrote:
> *>* > > >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the
> movie
> *>* "The
> *>* > > >> man without a past"
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
> 
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > > - Teemu
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > > --
> *>* > > > Teemu Leinonen
> *>* > > > http://teemuleinonen.fi 
> *>* > > > +358 50 351 6796 <%2B358%2050%20351%206796>
> *>* > > > Media Lab
> *>* > > > http://mlab.uiah.fi 
> *>* > > > Aalto University
> *>* > > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> *>* > > > --
> *>* > > >
> *>* > > > ___
> *>* > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> *>* > > > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> *>* > > > Unsubscribe:
> *>* https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
> *>* > > >   >?subject=unsubscribe>
> *>* > >
> *>* > > ___
> *>* > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> *>* > > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> *>* > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
> *>* > >   >?subject=unsubscribe>
> *>* > >
> *>* > ___
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> *>* > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> *>* > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Nathan]

On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Stryn@Wikimedia  wrote:

> The corrected report seems to be
>
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia
>
> Regards,
>
>
> *Stryn*
>
>
Wow, that's one hell of a correction. Good on Finland Times.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Stryn@Wikimedia]

The corrected report seems to be
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia

Regards,


*Stryn*

Hi Phillippe,

I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says "despite a press
report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
report has since been retracted and corrected"

However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..

Alex

[1]https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising

On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>> wrote:

>* Hi Alex,
*>>* I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
*>* our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
*>* from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
*>* as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
*>* writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
*>* document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.
*>>* Best,
*>* pb
*>>>* *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
*>* Foundation, Inc.
*>*  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  philippe at wikimedia.org
  |  :
*>* @Philippewiki>
*>>>* On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>> wrote:
*>>* > Apparently they got no response:
*>* >
*>* >
*>* 
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest

*>* >
*>* >
*>* > On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>> wrote:
*>* >
*>* > > Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
*>* > >
*>* > > 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>>:
*>* > > > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>> wrote:
*>* > > >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie
*>* "The
*>* > > >> man without a past"
*>* > > >
*>* > > >
*>* > > > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
*>* > > >
*>* > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori

*>* > > >
*>* > > > - Teemu
*>* > > >
*>* > > > --
*>* > > > Teemu Leinonen
*>* > > > http://teemuleinonen.fi 
*>* > > > +358 50 351 6796 <%2B358%2050%20351%206796>
*>* > > > Media Lab
*>* > > > http://mlab.uiah.fi 
*>* > > > Aalto University
*>* > > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
*>* > > > --
*>* > > >
*>* > > > ___
*>* > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
*>* > > > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org

*>* > > > Unsubscribe:
*>* https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

*>* > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
*>* > >
*>* > > ___
*>* > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
*>* > > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org

*>* > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

*>* > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
*>* > >
*>* > ___
*>* > Wikimedia-l mailing list
*>* > Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org

*>* > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

*>* > ?subject=unsubscribe>
*>* >
*>* ___
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*>* Unsubscribe:
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*>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Alex Monk]

Hi Phillippe,

I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says "despite a press
report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
report has since been retracted and corrected"

However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..

Alex

[1]
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising

On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette  wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
> our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
> from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
> as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
> writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
> document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.
>
> Best,
> pb
>
>
> *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> Foundation, Inc.
>  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
> @Philippewiki
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk  wrote:
>
> > Apparently they got no response:
> >
> >
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
> >
> >
> > On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
> > >
> > > 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu :
> > > > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> > > >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie
> "The
> > > >> man without a past"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
> > > >
> > > > - Teemu
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Teemu Leinonen
> > > > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > > > +358 50 351 6796
> > > > Media Lab
> > > > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > > > Aalto University
> > > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
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> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Philippe Beaudette]

Hi Alex,

I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.

Best,
pb


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
@Philippewiki


On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk  wrote:

> Apparently they got no response:
>
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
>
>
> On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
> > Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
> >
> > 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu :
> > > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> > >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
> > >> man without a past"
> > >
> > >
> > > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
> > >
> > > - Teemu
> > >
> > > --
> > > Teemu Leinonen
> > > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > > +358 50 351 6796
> > > Media Lab
> > > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > > Aalto University
> > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > > --
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Mathias Damour]

Le 01/03/2014 15:49, Jane Darnell a écrit :

The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the
average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and
whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to
"their" Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other
projects...


Sure, still it's funny that I was replied nearly the opposite recently: 
"Those editors are largely unaware of chapters and thorgs, and many are 
surprised to learn that up to a quarter of donors' gifts are passed on 
to them." !!

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ#I_thought_we_had_plenty_of_money._Isn.27t_the_WMF_growing_as_well.3F_Is_this_just_an_effort_to_curtail_chapter_growth.3F

That must be a matter of point of view...

--
Mathias Damour
49 rue Carnot
F-74000 Annecy
00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56
00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.dam...@laposte.net
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Jane Darnell]

The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the
average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and
whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to
"their" Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other
projects...

2014-03-01 15:38 GMT+01:00, Alex Monk :
> Apparently they got no response:
> http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
>
>
> On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
>>
>> 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu :
>> > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>> >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
>> >> man without a past"
>> >
>> >
>> > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
>> >
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
>> >
>> > - Teemu
>> >
>> > --
>> > Teemu Leinonen
>> > http://teemuleinonen.fi
>> > +358 50 351 6796
>> > Media Lab
>> > http://mlab.uiah.fi
>> > Aalto University
>> > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
>> > --
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Alex Monk]

Apparently they got no response:
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest


On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
>
> 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu :
> > On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> >> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
> >> man without a past"
> >
> >
> > Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
> >
> > - Teemu
> >
> > --
> > Teemu Leinonen
> > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > +358 50 351 6796
> > Media Lab
> > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > Aalto University
> > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > --
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Jane Darnell]

Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one

2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu :
> On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
>> man without a past"
>
>
> Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
>
> - Teemu
>
> --
> Teemu Leinonen
> http://teemuleinonen.fi
> +358 50 351 6796
> Media Lab
> http://mlab.uiah.fi
> Aalto University
> School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> --
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Leinonen Teemu]

On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
> man without a past"


Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'( 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori

- Teemu 

--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University 
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Jane Darnell]

I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie "The
man without a past"

2014-02-08 3:53 GMT+01:00, Stephen LaPorte :
> Hello all,
>
> We are handling this issue, and we are contacting the authorities to
> resolve their questions.
>
> If you receive any official inquires about fundraising on Finnish
> Wikipedia, please direct them to the Wikimedia Foundation legal team, to me
> or Andrei Voinigescu (avoinige...@wikimedia.org).
>
> Best,
> Stephen
>
> --
> Stephen LaPorte
> Legal Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> *This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in
> it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let
> us know about the mistake. For legal reasons, I may only serve as an
> attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation. This means I may not give legal
> advice to or serve as a lawyer for community members, volunteers, or staff
> members in their personal capacity.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Stephen LaPorte]

Hello all,

We are handling this issue, and we are contacting the authorities to
resolve their questions.

If you receive any official inquires about fundraising on Finnish
Wikipedia, please direct them to the Wikimedia Foundation legal team, to me
or Andrei Voinigescu (avoinige...@wikimedia.org).

Best,
Stephen

-- 
Stephen LaPorte
Legal Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation

*This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in
it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let
us know about the mistake. For legal reasons, I may only serve as an
attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation. This means I may not give legal
advice to or serve as a lawyer for community members, volunteers, or staff
members in their personal capacity.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Charles Gregory]

Of course it's not a strict 1:1 ratio!   But I was comparing it to (for
example) English or Spanish, which the country of origin represent a
minority of all speakers worldwide.

Charles


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:

> I would dispute the suggestion the Finnish Wikipedia is specific to
> Finland; I read it regularly and have never been to Finland.  There are at
> a bare minimum something like 300,000 fluent Finnish speakers who don't
> live in Finland (and I don't think that's counting the portion of Swedes
> who speak Finnish,) so although the fundraising banner probably primarily
> attracted donations from people in Finland, it likely attracted plenty of
> donations from other countries as well.
>
> Best,
> Kevin Gorman
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Charles Gregory 
> wrote:
>
> > In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
> > before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
> > payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
> > was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
> > rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
> > with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a
> member
> > in that state willing to act as a contact person).
> >
> > When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
> > fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF
> not
> > being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
> > own legal advice to confirm this)
> >
> > Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
> > 1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation
> is
> > to a non-Finnish organisation)
> > 2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country -
> and
> > so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland
> residents -
> > whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.
> >
> > With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a "Donate via Paypal"
> > button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.
> >
> > The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is
> #2 -
> > suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others
> have
> > said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
> > government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who
> has
> > learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some
> sort
> > of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...
> >
> > (Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)
> >
> > (BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
> > link the first time around!)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles Gregory
> > (User:Chuq)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the
> fi.wikipedia,
> > > by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
> > > written statement about their possible violation of the laws that
> > regulate
> > > fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already
> online
> > in
> > > English. Here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
> > >
> > > I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the
> police
> > > msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,
> > e.g.
> > > by translating the fundraising messages.
> > >
> > > Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
> > >
> > > In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
> > >
> > > - Teemu
> > >
> > > --
> > > Teemu Leinonen
> > > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > > +358 50 351 6796
> > > Media Lab
> > > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > > Aalto University
> > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[George Herbert]

Most importantly for all this, the SERVERS are not hosted in Finland
(unless something snuck in there behind my back).

Under US and EU laws, I would think there's no Finnish jurisdiction over
where the servers are located.

If the Finnish Police are asserting authority over any website written in
their language, there's a problem.

If they think they're hosted in Finland, then there's just a quick
educational explanation pointing to the WMF server locations documentation.

In any case, pass this to le...@wikimedia.org




On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:

> I would dispute the suggestion the Finnish Wikipedia is specific to
> Finland; I read it regularly and have never been to Finland.  There are at
> a bare minimum something like 300,000 fluent Finnish speakers who don't
> live in Finland (and I don't think that's counting the portion of Swedes
> who speak Finnish,) so although the fundraising banner probably primarily
> attracted donations from people in Finland, it likely attracted plenty of
> donations from other countries as well.
>
> Best,
> Kevin Gorman
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Charles Gregory 
> wrote:
>
> > In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
> > before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
> > payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
> > was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
> > rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
> > with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a
> member
> > in that state willing to act as a contact person).
> >
> > When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
> > fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF
> not
> > being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
> > own legal advice to confirm this)
> >
> > Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
> > 1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation
> is
> > to a non-Finnish organisation)
> > 2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country -
> and
> > so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland
> residents -
> > whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.
> >
> > With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a "Donate via Paypal"
> > button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.
> >
> > The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is
> #2 -
> > suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others
> have
> > said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
> > government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who
> has
> > learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some
> sort
> > of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...
> >
> > (Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)
> >
> > (BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
> > link the first time around!)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles Gregory
> > (User:Chuq)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the
> fi.wikipedia,
> > > by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
> > > written statement about their possible violation of the laws that
> > regulate
> > > fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already
> online
> > in
> > > English. Here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
> > >
> > > I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the
> police
> > > msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,
> > e.g.
> > > by translating the fundraising messages.
> > >
> > > Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
> > >
> > > In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
> > >
> > > - Teemu
> > >
> > > --
> > > Teemu Leinonen
> > > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > > +358 50 351 6796
> > > Media Lab
> > > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > > Aalto University
> > > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Kevin Gorman]

I would dispute the suggestion the Finnish Wikipedia is specific to
Finland; I read it regularly and have never been to Finland.  There are at
a bare minimum something like 300,000 fluent Finnish speakers who don't
live in Finland (and I don't think that's counting the portion of Swedes
who speak Finnish,) so although the fundraising banner probably primarily
attracted donations from people in Finland, it likely attracted plenty of
donations from other countries as well.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Charles Gregory  wrote:

> In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
> before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
> payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
> was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
> rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
> with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a member
> in that state willing to act as a contact person).
>
> When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
> fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF not
> being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
> own legal advice to confirm this)
>
> Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
> 1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation is
> to a non-Finnish organisation)
> 2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country - and
> so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland residents -
> whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.
>
> With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a "Donate via Paypal"
> button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.
>
> The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is #2 -
> suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others have
> said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
> government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who has
> learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some sort
> of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...
>
> (Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)
>
> (BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
> link the first time around!)
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Gregory
> (User:Chuq)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu  >wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia,
> > by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
> > written statement about their possible violation of the laws that
> regulate
> > fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already online
> in
> > English. Here:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
> >
> > I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
> > msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,
> e.g.
> > by translating the fundraising messages.
> >
> > Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
> >
> > In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
> >
> > - Teemu
> >
> > --
> > Teemu Leinonen
> > http://teemuleinonen.fi
> > +358 50 351 6796
> > Media Lab
> > http://mlab.uiah.fi
> > Aalto University
> > School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> > --
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Charles Gregory]

In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a member
in that state willing to act as a contact person).

When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF not
being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
own legal advice to confirm this)

Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation is
to a non-Finnish organisation)
2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country - and
so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland residents -
whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.

With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a "Donate via Paypal"
button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.

The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is #2 -
suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others have
said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who has
learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some sort
of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...

(Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)

(BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
link the first time around!)

Regards,

Charles Gregory
(User:Chuq)



On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia,
> by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
> written statement about their possible violation of the laws that regulate
> fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already online in
> English. Here:
>
>
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
>
> I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
> msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising, e.g.
> by translating the fundraising messages.
>
> Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
>
> In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
>
> - Teemu
>
> --
> Teemu Leinonen
> http://teemuleinonen.fi
> +358 50 351 6796
> Media Lab
> http://mlab.uiah.fi
> Aalto University
> School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> --
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Kevin Gorman]

I suspect that the Finnish Police would consider whoever in charge of
wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org the webmaster; few people outside of our
world understand how Wikipedia works.  I second forwarding them on to the
Foundation.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Craig Franklin wrote:

> The Foundation.  Which is why WMFI shouldn't try to reply to this except to
> refer them on.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
> On 08/02/2014 11:11 AM, "Isarra Yos"  wrote:
>
> > Who exactly would the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org even be?
> >
> > On 08/02/14 00:24, Kevin Gorman wrote:
> >
> >> My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
> >> Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection
> activities,
> >> and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
> >> Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
> >> money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish
> police.
> >> They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the
> purpose
> >> of
> >> the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police
> Board
> >> with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
> >> through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They
> also
> >> say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
> >> currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
> >> authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the
> answers
> >> of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Kevin Gorman
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
> nemow...@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>  http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b
> >>>
> >>> Nemo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>  ___
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> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Craig Franklin]

The Foundation.  Which is why WMFI shouldn't try to reply to this except to
refer them on.

Cheers,
Craig
On 08/02/2014 11:11 AM, "Isarra Yos"  wrote:

> Who exactly would the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org even be?
>
> On 08/02/14 00:24, Kevin Gorman wrote:
>
>> My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
>> Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
>> and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
>> Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
>> money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
>> They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose
>> of
>> the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
>> with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
>> through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
>> say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
>> currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
>> authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
>> of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kevin Gorman
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) > >wrote:
>>
>>  http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b
>>>
>>> Nemo
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>>> 
>>>
>>>  ___
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>> 
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Isarra Yos]

Who exactly would the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org even be?

On 08/02/14 00:24, Kevin Gorman wrote:

My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose of
the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:


http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Kevin Gorman]

My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose of
the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

> http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b
>
> Nemo
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Seb35]

It’s incredible that some governments think they "own" the language(s)  
mainly spoken in their country: fi.wikipedia.org is in Finnish but not  
related to Finland (non-Finnish people could visit fi.wikipedia.org, and  
Finnish people could visit other language Wikipedias). And it’s sad if  
they attack volunteers for a technical work, that would sound like the  
DGSE affair.


~ Seb35

Le Fri, 07 Feb 2014 23:00:40 +0100, Alex Monk  a écrit:

Has anyone translated the email into English? Would be interesting to see
what it says...

Alex Monk


On 7 February 2014 21:33, Leinonen Teemu  wrote:


Hi,

I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the  
fi.wikipedia,

by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
written statement about their possible violation of the laws that  
regulate
fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already  
online in

English. Here:


http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests

I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,  
e.g.

by translating the fundraising messages.

Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?

In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.

- Teemu

--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

[Alex Monk]

Has anyone translated the email into English? Would be interesting to see
what it says...

Alex Monk


On 7 February 2014 21:33, Leinonen Teemu  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia,
> by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
> written statement about their possible violation of the laws that regulate
> fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already online in
> English. Here:
>
>
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
>
> I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
> msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising, e.g.
> by translating the fundraising messages.
>
> Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
>
> In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
>
> - Teemu
>
> --
> Teemu Leinonen
> http://teemuleinonen.fi
> +358 50 351 6796
> Media Lab
> http://mlab.uiah.fi
> Aalto University
> School of Arts, Design and Architecture
> --
>
>
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