Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:13 PM, RickG wrote:

> Now they dont fist fight, they pull out the guns and shoot ya! Are you
saying things are better now?

LOL! Well, you DO have a point there, depending on where you live ;-).

The problem with the arguments on either side of this (and I thought about this 
as I replied) is that we're not just one group with one set of mores and one 
set way of doing things or one outlook. 50 or 60 years ago *maybe* it was 
easier, but it's pretty hard now. Though the battles with the mobs in places 
like Chicago do spring to mind from even back then...

Where I come from, even though practically everyone had a gun, it was pretty 
much unthinkable to shoot a *person* with it unless it was a home invasion (and 
those never really happened that I ever knew).

On the other hand, if you were in a gang in a prototypical inner city...well, 
let's just say that culture is very very different. So, making generalized 
statements, even the ones I made are always "false" in some sense.

The one thing that I forgot to say before though was that in those early books, 
editorials, etc. that I read, what amazed me was the level of the vocabulary 
they used back then. It was sooo much larger than what is used now that it 
boggled my mind. It wasn't just a different set of words...it was a larger set 
of words.

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:13 PM, RickG wrote:

> Now they dont fist fight, they pull out the guns and shoot ya! Are you
> saying things are better now?
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Chuck Bartosch 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote:
>> 
>>> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
>> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this
>> country 50 to 60 years ago.
>> 
>> Funny you should say that.
>> 
>> I did some reading when I was a kid from books written from 1910 to 1935.
>> Admittedly, I was an odd kid to be fascinated by how people saw the world 40
>> to 60 years earlier (this was the mid-to-late 1970's). The statements you're
>> making here were almost exactly what people were saying then about
>> generations that preceded them.
>> 
>> Also, I spent a great deal of time talking to my grandfather (and later
>> some of his friends) about what life was like when he grew up (born in 1913)
>> and his experiences in the great depression (he worked in the CCC camps and
>> was a train-vagabound, traveling across the country). They spent a LOT of
>> time unemployed and just causing trouble or getting into trouble. Heavy
>> drinking was much more accepted then than now.
>> 
>> There are some interesting things that HAVE changed a lot since then.
>> 
>> People got into fist fights a heck of a lot more easily back then ;-).
>> 
>> There was a much greater sense of belonging to a neighborhood then compared
>> to now. I see that as a loss but probably unavoidable.
>> 
>> Moral and ethical standards have shifted some, but if anything, they are
>> higher now. For example, people thought nothing of calling blacks the
>> "n-word" and segregating them from whites. The definition of what is "white"
>> itself has greatly expanded.
>> 
>> This has changed even since I was a kid. I remember when in the 1960's we
>> were moving from an all-catholic, white neighborhood, that we got obscene
>> phone calls and rocks through our windows when a black family made an offer
>> on our house (which we intended to accept until a neighbor topped their
>> offer by 10%) to keep the house 'white'). If you don't see this as a
>> dramatic, and important, shift in morals/ethics then I don't know what is. I
>> see this as strongly positive.
>> 
>> The level of volunteerism amongst men seems to be a lot higher now than it
>> was then. Women being in the working world has decreased their
>> participation, but I would count that as a higher level of ethics among men
>> (because it represents a greater level of consciousness, not just a greater
>> amount of time) and neutral among women. I see this as strongly positive.
>> 
>> Men 50 and 60 years ago thought nothing about bingeing with the guys Friday
>> nights (or every night). Abuse of drugs (including alcohol) has waxed and
>> wained over time but is certainly lower now than it was 40 years ago, for
>> example. Though I'm sure that still happens, it's really not considered
>> normal any more. I see this as a strong change in morals/ethics.
>> 
>> I'd honestly hate to see a world that reverted to the morals and ethics of
>> 50 to 60 years ago. Maybe people worked harder (but I doubt it-EVERYONE I
>> know words hard now, even with all the other things that compete for our
>> attention) but as a society, discrimination was rampant, there wasn't nearly
>> so many opportunities for upward mobility, men and women weren't treated
>> nearly as equally, etc. We're not in such a bad place now.
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>>> 
>>> Scottie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

No, you're not out of line. I've given up suggesting these topics get moved to 
WISPA Chat. I usually try to refrain from weighing in myself ;-).

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:06 PM, jason bailey wrote:

>  As a very small,but growing operator I have been following this list for 
> quite some time.I rarely poke my nose in as I enjoy the VERY intelligent 
> conversation that this list generates.I sometimes have to read 80 or more 
> messages when I get through putting in 110% and picking up my Three kids 
> after school as a single Dad and learn an unimaginable amount every day .I am 
> saddened by the level that some will take a conversation to.I hope to see a 
> political conversation as intense as this move elsewhere,But hey,I'm just a 
> single person,not the whole group.I can't learn anything about the technical 
> aspect of a WISP filtering the massive amount of email this topic has 
> generated.If i'm out of line,someone tell me. Regards ,Jason
> 
> 
> Sent From My PrimeCo Phone
> 
> --- On Fri, 2/5/10, MDK  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: MDK 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of 
> net-neutrality
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:44 PM
> 
> 
> 
> There's never a NEED to accumulate power... ever.But, the greed and lust 
> for more power is as old as politics itself.
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Jack Unger" 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:21 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulation 
> ofnet-neutrality> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you 
> don't have
>> excess people.
>> 
>> jack
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>>> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
>>> excess
>>> people.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>_
>>> 
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>>> of
>>> net-neutrality
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
>>> for everybody.
>>> 
>>> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there 
>>> is
>>> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>>> 
>>> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
>>> peace
>>> impossible.
>>> 
>>> jack
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Brad Belton wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>>> 
>>> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>>> 
>>> peace.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> 
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> 
>>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>>> 
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>>> of
>>> 
>>> net-neutrality
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Good points.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
>>> 
>>> the butter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Robert West wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Life, Liberty, Property.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For the common defense.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
>>> 
>>> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>>> 
>>> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> and
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> form.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this 
>>> country.
>>> 
>>> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
>>> without
>>> 
>>> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> food
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> more
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> every
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> month down useless well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just my crazy thoughts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob-
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

I agree-I've worked for essential monopolies (like defense contractors). Or 
maybe it's just big companies. In any case, the waste boggled my mind.

To be clear my natural tendency is to want to "own" a market. However, I also 
recognize that you can't ever really do that, and if you do, no matter how good 
you are, people hate you because you're their only choice. If they have even a 
bad choice, you're fine, but they have to have a reasonable choice.

I've seen examples of significant abuse of market position in a "past life" 
from the inside (which I won't enumerate for fear of legal repercussions, 
though the details are pretty fascinating, to me anyways...). What's 
interesting to me though is that the perpetrating company in this case is today 
ridiculed for its lack of innovation and not leading markets anymore.

In other words, even though I believe the governments anti-monopoly powers are 
important, in this case I think the market corrected itself. Those abusive 
positions become addictive and then destructive.

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:10 PM, RickG wrote:

> Then I fail your test. I dont want a monopoly. In th epast, I've worked for
> both electric and phone companies and all it breeds is laziness and waste.
> In competitive markets, I find the challenge invigorating. -RickG
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>> 
>>> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any
>> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could
>> ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in
>> its customers own best interests.
>>> 
>>> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies
>> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
>>> 
>> It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The
>> government's role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow
>> towards being a monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition
>> to stop that ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly
>> from abusing its position. The government must only set the rules of the
>> game and ensure market fairness through their rules. The government
>> shouldn't participate in the market either with its own entity or by picking
>> winners and losers through its actions.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
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--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

"When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"

>From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!






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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation ofnet-neutrality

[Jason Bailey]

I guess I might miss something! It is human nature to love DRAMA! Just thought 
It was getting a bit heated...Everyone seems to be amongst friends here.That's 
the best part.I'm in it for the long haul and have been for quite some time.I'm 
anxious to meet many on the list as we are all in this for many reasons,but 
Americans benefit from our existence.It's a challenge and nothing but the best 
job I can think of.I refuse to stand behind a machine and push buttons all 
day,And many "jobs" don't even come close to stimulating a single cell.Just 
want to say...keep up the good work and keep it friendly at the same time.Just 
remember most will likely end up at a convention with one another drinking 
someones fridge full of beer:) and it should be a good time!

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Mike  wrote:


From: Mike 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
ofnet-neutrality
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 11:21 PM


At least in Outlook -- Tools/Rules and Alerts/New Rule

Create a new rule to send messages with this subject to a junk folder.

Don't become a slave to your email.  If you feel overwhelmed by volume on a
certain subject just filter them.

It is nice to have you on the list.  I have learned bunches here too.  Small
business owners generally become quite passionate at times.  Overworked,
ever vigilant WISP operators are no exception.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jason bailey
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
ofnet-neutrality

 As a very small,but growing operator I have been following this list for
quite some time.I rarely poke my nose in as I enjoy the VERY intelligent
conversation that this list generates.I sometimes have to read 80 or more
messages when I get through putting in 110% and picking up my Three kids
after school as a single Dad and learn an unimaginable amount every day .I
am saddened by the level that some will take a conversation to.I hope to see
a political conversation as intense as this move elsewhere,But hey,I'm just
a single person,not the whole group.I can't learn anything about the
technical aspect of a WISP filtering the massive amount of email this topic
has generated.If i'm out of line,someone tell me. Regards ,Jason


Sent From My PrimeCo Phone

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, MDK  wrote:


From: MDK 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:44 PM



There's never a NEED to accumulate power... ever.    But, the greed and lust

for more power is as old as politics itself.


--
From: "Jack Unger" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:21 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in    regulation
ofnet-neutrality> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you
don't have
> excess people.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
>> excess
>> people.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106     (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation

>> of
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
>> for everybody.
>>
>> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there 
>> is
>> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>>
>> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
>> peace
>> impossible.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>>
>> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
>>
>>
>>
>> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>>
>> peace.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>>
>> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation

>> of
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
>>
>> the butter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Life, Liberty, Property.
>>
>>
>>
>> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the common defense.
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Butch Evans]

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 22:26 -0500, RickG wrote: 
> Hitler. Just to name one of many!

Ok, folks...it's time to stop.  We've reached the reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law


-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation ofnet-neutrality

[Mike]

At least in Outlook -- Tools/Rules and Alerts/New Rule

Create a new rule to send messages with this subject to a junk folder.

Don't become a slave to your email.  If you feel overwhelmed by volume on a
certain subject just filter them.

It is nice to have you on the list.  I have learned bunches here too.  Small
business owners generally become quite passionate at times.  Overworked,
ever vigilant WISP operators are no exception.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jason bailey
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
ofnet-neutrality

 As a very small,but growing operator I have been following this list for
quite some time.I rarely poke my nose in as I enjoy the VERY intelligent
conversation that this list generates.I sometimes have to read 80 or more
messages when I get through putting in 110% and picking up my Three kids
after school as a single Dad and learn an unimaginable amount every day .I
am saddened by the level that some will take a conversation to.I hope to see
a political conversation as intense as this move elsewhere,But hey,I'm just
a single person,not the whole group.I can't learn anything about the
technical aspect of a WISP filtering the massive amount of email this topic
has generated.If i'm out of line,someone tell me. Regards ,Jason


Sent From My PrimeCo Phone

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, MDK  wrote:


From: MDK 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:44 PM



There's never a NEED to accumulate power... ever.    But, the greed and lust

for more power is as old as politics itself.


--
From: "Jack Unger" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:21 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in    regulation
ofnet-neutrality> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you
don't have
> excess people.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
>> excess
>> people.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106     (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation

>> of
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
>> for everybody.
>>
>> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there 
>> is
>> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>>
>> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
>> peace
>> impossible.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>>
>> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
>>
>>
>>
>> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>>
>> peace.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>>
>> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation

>> of
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
>>
>> the butter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Life, Liberty, Property.
>>
>>
>>
>> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the common defense.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
>>
>> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>>
>> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>>
>>
>>
>> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>>
>>
>>
>> form.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this 
>> country.
>>
>> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
>> without
>>
>> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
>>
>>
>>
>> food
>>
>>
>>
>> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>>
>>
>>
>> more
>>
>>
>>
>> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>>
>>
>>
>> every
>

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[jason bailey]

 As a very small,but growing operator I have been following this list for quite 
some time.I rarely poke my nose in as I enjoy the VERY intelligent conversation 
that this list generates.I sometimes have to read 80 or more messages when I 
get through putting in 110% and picking up my Three kids after school as a 
single Dad and learn an unimaginable amount every day .I am saddened by the 
level that some will take a conversation to.I hope to see a political 
conversation as intense as this move elsewhere,But hey,I'm just a single 
person,not the whole group.I can't learn anything about the technical aspect of 
a WISP filtering the massive amount of email this topic has generated.If i'm 
out of line,someone tell me. Regards ,Jason


Sent From My PrimeCo Phone

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, MDK  wrote:


From: MDK 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of 
net-neutrality
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 10:44 PM



There's never a NEED to accumulate power... ever.    But, the greed and lust 
for more power is as old as politics itself.


--
From: "Jack Unger" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:21 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in    regulation 
ofnet-neutrality> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't 
have
> excess people.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
>> excess
>> people.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106     (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>> of
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
>> for everybody.
>>
>> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there 
>> is
>> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>>
>> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
>> peace
>> impossible.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>>
>> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
>>
>>
>>
>> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>>
>> peace.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>>
>> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>> of
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
>>
>> the butter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Life, Liberty, Property.
>>
>>
>>
>> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the common defense.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
>>
>> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>>
>> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>>
>>
>>
>> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>>
>>
>>
>> form.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this 
>> country.
>>
>> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
>> without
>>
>> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
>>
>>
>>
>> food
>>
>>
>>
>> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>>
>>
>>
>> more
>>
>>
>>
>> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>>
>>
>>
>> every
>>
>>
>>
>> month down useless well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just my crazy thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
>>
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
>>
>>
>>
>> of
>>
>>
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your police analogy is flawed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of
>>
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>
>> larger population it does not take a lar

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[MDK]

There's never a NEED to accumulate power... ever.But, the greed and lust 
for more power is as old as politics itself.


--
From: "Jack Unger" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:21 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in  regulation 
ofnet-neutrality> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't 
have
> excess people.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
>> excess
>> people.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>> of
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
>> for everybody.
>>
>> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there 
>> is
>> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>>
>> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
>> peace
>> impossible.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>>
>> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
>>
>>
>>
>> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>>
>> peace.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>>
>> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
>> of
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Good points.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
>>
>> the butter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Life, Liberty, Property.
>>
>>
>>
>> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the common defense.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
>>
>> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>>
>> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>>
>>
>>
>> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>>
>>
>>
>> form.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this 
>> country.
>>
>> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
>> without
>>
>> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
>>
>>
>>
>> food
>>
>>
>>
>> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>>
>>
>>
>> more
>>
>>
>>
>> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>>
>>
>>
>> every
>>
>>
>>
>> month down useless well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just my crazy thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
>>
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
>>
>>
>>
>> of
>>
>>
>>
>> net-neutrality
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your police analogy is flawed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of
>>
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>
>> larger population it does not take a larger government body with 
>> increased
>>
>> invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger
>>
>>
>>
>> population
>>
>>
>>
>> requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
>>
>> applied to all regardless of the size of population.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
>>
>> government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
>>
>> becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
>>
>> more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
>>
>> government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
>>
>> you enjoy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
>>
>> they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
>>
>> providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors
>>
>>
>>
>> open)
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

Hitler. Just to name one of many!

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

> C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't have
> excess people.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> > C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of
> excess
> > people.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > Jeff Broadwick
> > ImageStream
> > 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> > +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jack Unger
> > Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
> of
> > net-neutrality
> >
> >
> > Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
> > for everybody.
> >
> > But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there
> is
> > no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
> >
> > This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real
> peace
> > impossible.
> >
> > jack
> >
> >
> > Brad Belton wrote:
> >
> > I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
> >
> > since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.
> >
> >
> >
> > Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
> >
> > peace.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >
> > Behalf Of Jack Unger
> >
> > Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
> >
> > To: WISPA General List
> >
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
> of
> >
> > net-neutrality
> >
> >
> >
> > Good points.
> >
> >
> >
> > When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose
> >
> > the butter.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert West wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Life, Liberty, Property.
> >
> >
> >
> > Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.
> >
> >
> >
> > For the common defense.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
> >
> > government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
> >
> > thinkers, it won't get any better.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
> >
> >
> >
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> > the draft.  Now hear me out on this
> >
> >
> >
> > Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
> >
> >
> >
> > form.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this
> country.
> >
> > We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever
> without
> >
> > much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
> >
> >
> >
> > food
> >
> >
> >
> > on the table and pay for the folly of it all.
> >
> >
> >
> > If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
> >
> >
> >
> > more
> >
> >
> >
> > commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
> >
> >
> >
> > every
> >
> >
> >
> > month down useless well.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just my crazy thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >
> > Behalf Of Brad Belton
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
> >
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> >
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
> >
> >
> >
> > of
> >
> >
> >
> > net-neutrality
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your police analogy is flawed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of
> >
> >
> >
> > a
> >
> >
> >
> > larger population it does not take a larger government body with
> increased
> >
> > invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger
> >
> >
> >
> > population
> >
> >
> >
> > requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
> >
> > applied to all regardless of the size of population.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
> >
> > government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
> >
> > becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
> >
> > more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
> >
> > government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
> >
> > you enjoy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
> >
> > they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
> >
> > providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors
> >
> >
> >
> > open)
> >
> >
> >

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[RickG]

Now they dont fist fight, they pull out the guns and shoot ya! Are you
saying things are better now?

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote:
>
> > I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this
> country 50 to 60 years ago.
>
> Funny you should say that.
>
> I did some reading when I was a kid from books written from 1910 to 1935.
> Admittedly, I was an odd kid to be fascinated by how people saw the world 40
> to 60 years earlier (this was the mid-to-late 1970's). The statements you're
> making here were almost exactly what people were saying then about
> generations that preceded them.
>
> Also, I spent a great deal of time talking to my grandfather (and later
> some of his friends) about what life was like when he grew up (born in 1913)
> and his experiences in the great depression (he worked in the CCC camps and
> was a train-vagabound, traveling across the country). They spent a LOT of
> time unemployed and just causing trouble or getting into trouble. Heavy
> drinking was much more accepted then than now.
>
> There are some interesting things that HAVE changed a lot since then.
>
> People got into fist fights a heck of a lot more easily back then ;-).
>
> There was a much greater sense of belonging to a neighborhood then compared
> to now. I see that as a loss but probably unavoidable.
>
> Moral and ethical standards have shifted some, but if anything, they are
> higher now. For example, people thought nothing of calling blacks the
> "n-word" and segregating them from whites. The definition of what is "white"
> itself has greatly expanded.
>
> This has changed even since I was a kid. I remember when in the 1960's we
> were moving from an all-catholic, white neighborhood, that we got obscene
> phone calls and rocks through our windows when a black family made an offer
> on our house (which we intended to accept until a neighbor topped their
> offer by 10%) to keep the house 'white'). If you don't see this as a
> dramatic, and important, shift in morals/ethics then I don't know what is. I
> see this as strongly positive.
>
> The level of volunteerism amongst men seems to be a lot higher now than it
> was then. Women being in the working world has decreased their
> participation, but I would count that as a higher level of ethics among men
> (because it represents a greater level of consciousness, not just a greater
> amount of time) and neutral among women. I see this as strongly positive.
>
> Men 50 and 60 years ago thought nothing about bingeing with the guys Friday
> nights (or every night). Abuse of drugs (including alcohol) has waxed and
> wained over time but is certainly lower now than it was 40 years ago, for
> example. Though I'm sure that still happens, it's really not considered
> normal any more. I see this as a strong change in morals/ethics.
>
> I'd honestly hate to see a world that reverted to the morals and ethics of
> 50 to 60 years ago. Maybe people worked harder (but I doubt it-EVERYONE I
> know words hard now, even with all the other things that compete for our
> attention) but as a society, discrimination was rampant, there wasn't nearly
> so many opportunities for upward mobility, men and women weren't treated
> nearly as equally, etc. We're not in such a bad place now.
>
> Chuck
>
> >
> > Scottie
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Brad Belton" 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
> >
> >> Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
> >> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> regulationof
> >> net-neutrality
> >>
> >> That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
> >> lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created
> the
> >> market for the paper.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Broadwick
> >> ImageStream
> >> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> >> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> regulationof
> >> net-neutrality
> >>
> >> Brad,
> >>
> >>> People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
> >>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
> >>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
> >>
> >> You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

Then I fail your test. I dont want a monopoly. In th epast, I've worked for
both electric and phone companies and all it breeds is laziness and waste.
In competitive markets, I find the challenge invigorating. -RickG

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:

>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>
> > That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any
> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could
> ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in
> its customers own best interests.
> >
> > If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies
> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
> >
> It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The
> government's role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow
> towards being a monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition
> to stop that ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly
> from abusing its position. The government must only set the rules of the
> game and ensure market fairness through their rules. The government
> shouldn't participate in the market either with its own entity or by picking
> winners and losers through its actions.
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

Chuck, In the past, I'd say 99% of our posts are in agreement so I suspect
we have the same thoughts here as well. I probably failed in not being more
clear due to lack of detail with my thoughts due to time constraints. The
context of my reply was in response to Jack's fear of big companies. Perhaps
my fearlessness is naive which takes me to a new question: Which company do
you know of that has a monopoly that is not given to them by our government?

-RickG

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

> The restraint is government. How do you restrain capitalism without the
> restraint of laws, including those that restrain monopolies?
>
> The implication of saying the only companies that have monopolies are the
> ones that government gives monopolies to is that without government
> monopolies, and without government interference, there would be no
> monopolies. I'm saying that government *has* to play a role in restraining
> capitalism from self-destructing.
>
> There's no question in my mind that I want as much freedom as
> possible...but I fully realize that if I'm given complete "freedom" to do as
> I want, I'll do things that are bad for me. Or bad for everyone else anyway.
> That's why wives and girlfriends are good for those of us who are men. Or
> for those of us who are women too I suppose ;-).
>
> Chuck
>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 6:48 PM, RickG wrote:
>
> > Chuck, where did I say "unrestrained? The rest of my post is questions.
> So,
> > I agree with your reply in as much as that nobody should be unrestrained.
> As
> > far as history, to what do you refer to?
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch <
> ch...@clarityconnect.com>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jack, The only companies that "can do whatever they want to you
> whenever
> >>> they want to do it" are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess
> who
> >> -
> >>> big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the
> >>> government?
> >>
> >> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any
> >> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I
> could
> >> ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts
> in
> >> its customers own best interests.
> >>
> >> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies
> >> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
> >>
> >> Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from
> damaging
> >> itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once
> >> government restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it
> >> allows (but there's no real content in that statement). There are very
> few
> >> created monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two
> of
> >> them).
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:
> >>>
>  So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
>  companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they
> want
> >> to
>  do it.
> 
>  BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh
> 
> 
>  Frank Crawford wrote:
> 
>  YES
> 
>  Jack Unger wrote:
> 
> 
>  I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
>  support the alternative of making government so small that you can
> drown
>  it in a bathtub?
> 
>  Glenn Kelley wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates
> >> telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
> >> oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
> >> gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A
> broadband
> >> plan for Amercia)
>  “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this
> >> regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice
> >> application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps?
> Isn’t
> >> voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network
> >> operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping
> >> rate, how will the government be able to keep up?”
> 
> 
>  Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -->
> 
> >>
> _
>  Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>  Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>
> 
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> >>
> 
> 
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http:/

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

That's it? Your basis against the CRA is a partisan blog post? Really? The 
guy's article doesn't even lay the blame at the CRA's feet. It is more a 
commentary on Fannie and Freddie.

I am pretty disappointed. I expected that someone who has seen plenty of 
research would have shared something that counts for research. Something like 
http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=4136 done 
by Minneapolis Federal Reserve Economists.

or

Comptroller of the Currency:  http://www.occ.gov/ftp/release/2008-136.htm

or

FDIC Chairman Shelia Bair:  
http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/speeches/archives/2008/chairman/spdec1708.html

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> Here is a nice timeline for anyone that wants to read it.  I'm done with
> this on-list:
> 
> http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/what_really_happened_in_the_mo.html 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:53 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what:
> TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> I won't attempt to prove a negative. It was you who made the claim CRA
> caused the housing crisis. It is therefore incumbent on you to prove the
> claim. This is especially true since you have provided no basis for your
> claim. I have provided facts related to the CRA that have not been refuted
> by you or anyone else..
> 
> Now then, here is your chance. Back up your claims. Refute the facts I have
> provided. Provide at least a theory as to how the CRA caused the housing
> crisis.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and 
>> you've provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for 
>> your statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably 
>> have to do it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this,
> as am I.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The 
>> FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
>> Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply 
>> change the subject? I worry you formed your position without proper
> research.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> 
>>> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie 
>>> and Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
>>> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
>>> 
>>> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
>>> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
>>> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see 
>>> what percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also 
>>> publish what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The 
>>> numbers are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
>>> 
>>> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the 
>>> top
>>> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
>>> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 
>>> to
>>> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private market for subprime.
>>> 
>>> -Matt
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>>> 
 I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
 you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market 
 created by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  
 There are certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I 
 will agree with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs 
 in their titles that bellied up to the trough.
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Jeff
 
 
 Jeff Broadwick
 ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Robert West]

I thought was WAS population control  I'm confused now.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
for everybody. 

But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there is
no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace". 

This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real peace
impossible. 

jack


Brad Belton wrote: 

I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  
 
Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
peace.
 
 
Brad
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality
 
Good points.
 
When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 
the butter.
 
 
 
Robert West wrote:
  

Life, Liberty, Property.
 
Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  
 
For the common defense.
 
It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
thinkers, it won't get any better.
 
As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax


and
  

the draft.  Now hear me out on this
 
Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or


form.
  

Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put


food
  

on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  
 
If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,


more
  

commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions


every
  

month down useless well.
 
Just my crazy thoughts.
 
Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation


of
  

net-neutrality
 
Jack,
 
 
 
Your police analogy is flawed.  
 
 
 
While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of


a
  

larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger


population
  

requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
applied to all regardless of the size of population.
 
 
 
Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
you enjoy.
 
 
 
Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors


open)
  

exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and


acted
  

upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government


stays
  

out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
charge the better my business does!
 
 
 
What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to


take
  

TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out


of
  

their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small


business
  

with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.
 
 
 
Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ


people
  

weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if


it
  

were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
 
 
 
I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
know.jus

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

The restraint is government. How do you restrain capitalism without the 
restraint of laws, including those that restrain monopolies?

The implication of saying the only companies that have monopolies are the ones 
that government gives monopolies to is that without government monopolies, and 
without government interference, there would be no monopolies. I'm saying that 
government *has* to play a role in restraining capitalism from self-destructing.

There's no question in my mind that I want as much freedom as possible...but I 
fully realize that if I'm given complete "freedom" to do as I want, I'll do 
things that are bad for me. Or bad for everyone else anyway. That's why wives 
and girlfriends are good for those of us who are men. Or for those of us who 
are women too I suppose ;-).

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2010, at 6:48 PM, RickG wrote:

> Chuck, where did I say "unrestrained? The rest of my post is questions. So,
> I agree with your reply in as much as that nobody should be unrestrained. As
> far as history, to what do you refer to?
> -RickG
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote:
>> 
>>> Jack, The only companies that "can do whatever they want to you whenever
>>> they want to do it" are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who
>> -
>>> big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the
>>> government?
>> 
>> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any
>> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could
>> ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in
>> its customers own best interests.
>> 
>> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies
>> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
>> 
>> Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from damaging
>> itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once
>> government restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it
>> allows (but there's no real content in that statement). There are very few
>> created monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two of
>> them).
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:
>>> 
 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want
>> to
 do it.
 
 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh
 
 
 Frank Crawford wrote:
 
 YES
 
 Jack Unger wrote:
 
 
 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
 it in a bathtub?
 
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
 
 
 
 Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates
>> telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
>> oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
>> gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
>> plan for Amercia)
 “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this
>> regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice
>> application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t
>> voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network
>> operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping
>> rate, how will the government be able to keep up?”
 
 
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -->
 
>> _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
 Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 
 
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
 
>> 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
 
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
 
>> 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
 Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking a

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

I had one call only.  Couldn't see the radio on my end, had the AP close to
it do a site survey, couldn't even see the signal but saw the others in the
area.  On a lark, turned up the power of the backhaul feeding it then turned
off the wireless on it for 5 minutes hoping the watchdog would do something
on the dead side and sure enough, turned the wireless back on and there she
was.  It must have been able to communicate somehow with the backhaul but
I'm at a loss how I couldn't see it yet it could see me.
Strange  Left the power up though.  Maybe the signal was
reflecting off all the snow and confused everything, could have even been
the backhaul that had the issue...

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I see you're down on 35 so you're feeling the same weather we are.

I have 3 customers that went down all in the same area around a 900 AP.
Spoke with one of them and at least that one has power (and a generator!)
I'm guessing the snow weighed down the antennas enough.  The AP definitely
isn't seeing any interference - it's a super low noise floor of -86.
Changed channels around the band.

Wonder if those yagi radome's from WB would prevent this.  Or those hideous
parabolic grids.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Robert West
wrote:

> And that figures because the weather was nice all week but
N!!!
> I got stuck on service calls and finally have the time to install a
> backhaul
> today...
>
> Sucks!
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:32 AM
> To: spie...@avolve.net; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> I can barely see down the street because of snow and in the next 24 hours
> we're on a storm alert.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering,
but
> > hey, it's got more food.
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: Josh Luthman 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
> >
> > >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> > >
> > >Josh Luthman
> > >Office: 937-552-2340
> > >Direct: 937-552-2343
> > >1100 Wayne St
> > >Suite 1337
> > >Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue
> > >that counts."
> > >--- Winston Churchill
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> > >>
> > >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> > >>
> > >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> > >>
> > >> Bob-
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> > >> To: WISPA General List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >>
> > >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> > Village,
> > >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> > >>
> > >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> > >>
> > >> -- Original Message --
> > >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> > >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> > >>
> > >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> > >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much
better
> > >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> > >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
> if
> > >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> > >> >
> > >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> > medium,
> > >> >or small.
> > >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> > niche
> > >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
> just
> > >> >any vendor.
> > >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> > with
> > >> >home to make sure business continues.
> > >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, a

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

Chuck, where did I say "unrestrained? The rest of my post is questions. So,
I agree with your reply in as much as that nobody should be unrestrained. As
far as history, to what do you refer to?
-RickG

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote:
>
> > Jack, The only companies that "can do whatever they want to you whenever
> > they want to do it" are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who
> -
> > big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the
> > government?
>
> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any
> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could
> ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in
> its customers own best interests.
>
> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies
> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
>
> Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from damaging
> itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once
> government restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it
> allows (but there's no real content in that statement). There are very few
> created monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two of
> them).
>
> Chuck
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:
> >
> >> So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
> >> companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want
> to
> >> do it.
> >>
> >> BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh
> >>
> >>
> >> Frank Crawford wrote:
> >>
> >> YES
> >>
> >> Jack Unger wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
> >> support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
> >> it in a bathtub?
> >>
> >> Glenn Kelley wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates
> telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
> oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
> gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
> plan for Amercia)
> >> “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this
> regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice
> application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t
> voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network
> operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping
> rate, how will the government be able to keep up?”
> >>
> >>
> >> Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -->
> >>
> _
> >> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
> >>  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> >> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> >> Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
> >> Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
> 1993www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Ar

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[RickG]

I agree with you on peoples financial priorites but its their business as
long as they dont take assistance from taxpayers. As for malice - people in
Vegas and Nevada think so. -RickG

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Oh, I totally agree.  I'm not a gambler either, I may as well just walk in,
> hand the first person I see 500 bucks and walk out.  The experience would
> be
> pretty much the same for me.
>
> But what Obama said was.
>
> "You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
> said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
> for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."
>
> I'm no longer a fan of Obama but I'll say that I see no malice in that
> statement.  That's basic economic advice that my grandfather would have
> told
> me years ago if I would have been listening or what my wife tells me every
> day, again, if I were to be listening.  (Long pause while you all sit and
> nod your heads reluctantly to the "wife" statement.  We will never admit
> that they are right!)  Vegas is just an example that everyone understands
> and it's true.  If he would have said, "What we need to do is go put all of
> our money is risky ventures, cross our fingers and wait for the big payoff,
> like we do in Vegas" they would have applauded him..
>
> Wait, that's what got the globe in such a mess in the first
> place.  Maybe I should do what the wife says and NOT buy that
> 512" Jumbo-Tron for the basement from Amazon.  I was really wanting that
> too.  *sad*
>
>
> My favorite thing, however, is when a load of radio crap shows up and she
> says "What do you need more of that antenna stuff for?" with that universal
> female look of disapproval on her face  Then an hour later go on
> about how we need to make more money.  A bit of a disconnect.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Bob, personally, I dont gamble and I believe gambling is not good
> stewardship of money but I do believe everyone has a right to spend their
> money the way they see fit. Some may call it a waste but I imagine there
> are
> plenty of items and activites that you & I probably do that could fall into
> the same category. Like everything in life, it should be done in
> moderation.
> For Obama, he just wants more control.
> -RickG
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Yeah.  Imagine having someone think that wasting ones money to gambling
> > being a bad thing and then actually saying so.  As my grandmother may of
> > said if she ever said it.
> >
> > "Why, I never!"
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:54 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >
> > Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most
> > days
> > > we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
> > > cheap,
> > > and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
> > > > normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
> > > >
> > > > Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
> > > > packed
> > > > as
> > > > it was 10 years ago too.
> > > >
> > > > 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
> > first
> > > > place I stopped at, a Drury.
> > > >
> > > > Don't take your organs to heaven,
> > > > heaven knows we need them down here!
> > > > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Brian Webster" 
> > > > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited
> lodging
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
> > > > > convention.
> > > > > There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit
> for
> > > your
> > > > > idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
> > > > > locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a
> > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to
> pay
> > > > > higher
> > > > > a

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jack Unger]

My nature is to be peaceful, my friend. 

jack


Jeff Broadwick wrote:

  Human nature? 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 4:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't have excess
people.

jack


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
  
  
C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
excess people.
 

Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)


 

  _

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
On Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
regulation of net-neutrality


Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or 
shelter for everybody.

But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, 
there is no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".

This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
peace impossible.

jack


Brad Belton wrote: 

I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has 
proven

since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  



Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never 
be

peace.





Brad





-Original Message-

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
On

Behalf Of Jack Unger

Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
regulation of

net-neutrality



Good points.



When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll 
choose

the butter.







Robert West wrote:

  

Life, Liberty, Property.



Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  



For the common defense.



It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For 
the

government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"

thinkers, it won't get any better.



As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war 
tax



and

  

the draft.  Now hear me out on this



Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or



form.

  

Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.

We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
without

much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and 
put



food

  

on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  



If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,



more

  

commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions



every

  

month down useless well.



Just my crazy thoughts.



Bob-















-Original Message-

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
On

Behalf Of Brad Belton

Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM

To: 'WISPA General List'

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
regulation



of

  

net-neutrality



Jack,



 



Your police analogy is flawed.  



 



While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety 
of



a

  

larger population it does not take a larger government body with 
increased

invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger



population

  

requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are

applied to all regardless of the size of population.



 



Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on 
the

government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)

becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to 
become

more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big

government the more power they have over your life and the fewer 
freedoms

you enjoy.



 



Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly 
because

they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless

providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors



open)

  

exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and



acted

  

upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government



stays

  

out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big 
Telco's

charge the better my business does!



 



What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  
GM

is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to



take

  

TARP haven't changed

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

Human nature? 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 4:21 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't have excess
people.

jack


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of 
> excess people.
>  
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>
>  
>
>   _
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
> regulation of net-neutrality
>
>
> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or 
> shelter for everybody.
>
> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, 
> there is no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace".
>
> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real 
> peace impossible.
>
> jack
>
>
> Brad Belton wrote: 
>
> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has 
> proven
>
> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  
>
>
>
> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never 
> be
>
> peace.
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On
>
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>
> To: WISPA General List
>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
> regulation of
>
> net-neutrality
>
>
>
> Good points.
>
>
>
> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll 
> choose
>
> the butter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
>
>   
>
> Life, Liberty, Property.
>
>
>
> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  
>
>
>
> For the common defense.
>
>
>
> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For 
> the
>
> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>
> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>
>
>
> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war 
> tax
>
> 
>
> and
>
>   
>
> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>
>
>
> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>
> 
>
> form.
>
>   
>
> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
>
> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever 
> without
>
> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and 
> put
>
> 
>
> food
>
>   
>
> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  
>
>
>
> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>
> 
>
> more
>
>   
>
> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>
> 
>
> every
>
>   
>
> month down useless well.
>
>
>
> Just my crazy thoughts.
>
>
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On
>
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
>
> To: 'WISPA General List'
>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
> regulation
>
> 
>
> of
>
>   
>
> net-neutrality
>
>
>
> Jack,
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Your police analogy is flawed.  
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety 
> of
>
> 
>
> a
>
>   
>
> larger population it does not take a larger government body with 
> increased
>
> invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger
>
> 
>
> population
>
>   
>
> requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
>
> applied to all regardless of the size of population.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on 
> the
>
> government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
>
> becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to 
> become
>
> more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
>
> government the more power they have over your life and the fewer 
> freedoms
>
> you enjoy.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly 
> because
>
> they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
>
> providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors
>
> 
>
> open)
>
>   
>
> exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and
>
> 
>
> acted
>
>   
>
> upon.  Capitalism and the market 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Brad Belton]

Wow...looks like a good read for some time tonight.  Just too busy right
now.  Thanks for the link!

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what:
TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

Here is a nice timeline for anyone that wants to read it.  I'm done with
this on-list:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/what_really_happened_in_the_mo.html 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what:
TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

I won't attempt to prove a negative. It was you who made the claim CRA
caused the housing crisis. It is therefore incumbent on you to prove the
claim. This is especially true since you have provided no basis for your
claim. I have provided facts related to the CRA that have not been refuted
by you or anyone else..

Now then, here is your chance. Back up your claims. Refute the facts I have
provided. Provide at least a theory as to how the CRA caused the housing
crisis.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and 
> you've provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for 
> your statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably 
> have to do it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this,
as am I.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The 
> FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
> Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply 
> change the subject? I worry you formed your position without proper
research.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie 
>> and Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
>> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
>> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
>> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see 
>> what percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also 
>> publish what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The 
>> numbers are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
>> 
>> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the 
>> top
>> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
>> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 
>> to
>> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private market for subprime.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
>>> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market 
>>> created by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  
>>> There are certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I 
>>> will agree with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs 
>>> in their titles that bellied up to the trough.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
>>> inregulationofnet-neutrality
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>> 
 The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing 
 rules on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have 
 normally
>>> qualified.
 
>>> No, it in fact does not hold 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jack Unger]

C'mon Jeff. There is NO NEED to accumulate power if you don't have 
excess people.

jack


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of excess
> people.
>  
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>
>  
>
>   _  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
> net-neutrality
>
>
> Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
> for everybody. 
>
> But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there is
> no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace". 
>
> This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real peace
> impossible. 
>
> jack
>
>
> Brad Belton wrote: 
>
> I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
>
> since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  
>
>
>
> Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
>
> peace.
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
>
> To: WISPA General List
>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
>
> net-neutrality
>
>
>
> Good points.
>
>
>
> When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 
>
> the butter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
>
>   
>
> Life, Liberty, Property.
>
>
>
> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  
>
>
>
> For the common defense.
>
>
>
> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
>
> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
>
> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>
>
>
> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
>
> 
>
> and
>
>   
>
> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>
>
>
> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
>
> 
>
> form.
>
>   
>
> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
>
> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
>
> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
>
> 
>
> food
>
>   
>
> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  
>
>
>
> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
>
> 
>
> more
>
>   
>
> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
>
> 
>
> every
>
>   
>
> month down useless well.
>
>
>
> Just my crazy thoughts.
>
>
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
>
> To: 'WISPA General List'
>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
>
> 
>
> of
>
>   
>
> net-neutrality
>
>
>
> Jack,
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Your police analogy is flawed.  
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of
>
> 
>
> a
>
>   
>
> larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
>
> invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger
>
> 
>
> population
>
>   
>
> requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
>
> applied to all regardless of the size of population.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
>
> government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
>
> becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
>
> more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
>
> government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
>
> you enjoy.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
>
> they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
>
> providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors
>
> 
>
> open)
>
>   
>
> exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and
>
> 
>
> acted
>
>   
>
> upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government
>
> 
>
> stays
>
>   
>
> out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
>
> charge the better my business does!
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
>
> is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to
>
> 
>
> take
>
>   
>
> TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government o

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Eje Gustafsson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

I think the paragraph "Housing Advocacy groups" and "Predatory lending"
speaks pretty much for itself. 
CRA failed miserably in those areas because of the simple fact that after
all CRA was all about to provide "equal" financing opportunities to low to
mid-income and minority groups. So the pressure was on to provide financing
to these groups and this back fired because the low in-come group had hard
time paying the loans for a house they really couldn't afford. When you make
less then 30k in the household can you really afford a 50k house and all
expenses associated with said house? Figure just principal, 15 year loan
you're looking at $277/mo. The Department of health and human services
figure a 3 person household requires in the lower 48 $18k per year to scrap
by. By my book that $277/mo + interest + insurance + maintenance is t much
for this family to afford on a "regular loan". 

"In a 2002 study exploring the relationship between the CRA and lending
looked at as predatory, Kathleen C. Engel and Patricia A. McCoy noted that
banks could receive CRA credit by lending or brokering loans in lower-income
areas that would be considered a risk for ordinary lending practices."

Look where we are at today billions of dollar spent on TARP to "save" the
banks that did these loans to low and middle income families. 
Fannie Mae and Freddie MAC brought back from the brink of complete meltdown
by even more billions of dollars. 

A house is not a RIGHT it's a PRIVILEGE and not everyone can nor will be
privileged enough to be able to afford a house. A house is not just a loan
payment to have and up keep. It's also insurance and maintenance. Anyone
owning a house knows that there is never an end to maintenance required once
one thing is fixed another will appear some might not require immediate
attention but some if immediate or soon attention is given will result in
expensive fixes and repairs. The older house the more issues and a lot of
the low to medium income families that is all they can afford the older
houses in most areas. On top of this unfortunately a lot of the low income
people are employees that are "expendable" in many companies so when things
start to go hard they are often the first ones to get laid off. The high
income guy is probably the person that makes the decisions and he relies on
other high income people and mid level income people to make things happen.
It's always the poor guy that get the shaft I'm afraid. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:36 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The
FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and you've
provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for your
statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably have to do
it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this, as am I.  


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The
FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply change the
subject? I worry you formed your position without proper research.

-Matt
 
On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie and 
> Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what 
> percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also publish 
> what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The numbers 
> are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
> 
> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 
> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 
> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private marke

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

Here is a nice timeline for anyone that wants to read it.  I'm done with
this on-list:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/what_really_happened_in_the_mo.html 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what:
TheFCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

I won't attempt to prove a negative. It was you who made the claim CRA
caused the housing crisis. It is therefore incumbent on you to prove the
claim. This is especially true since you have provided no basis for your
claim. I have provided facts related to the CRA that have not been refuted
by you or anyone else..

Now then, here is your chance. Back up your claims. Refute the facts I have
provided. Provide at least a theory as to how the CRA caused the housing
crisis.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and 
> you've provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for 
> your statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably 
> have to do it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this,
as am I.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The 
> FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
> Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply 
> change the subject? I worry you formed your position without proper
research.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie 
>> and Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
>> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
>> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
>> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see 
>> what percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also 
>> publish what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The 
>> numbers are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
>> 
>> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the 
>> top
>> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
>> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 
>> to
>> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private market for subprime.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
>>> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market 
>>> created by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  
>>> There are certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I 
>>> will agree with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs 
>>> in their titles that bellied up to the trough.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
>>> inregulationofnet-neutrality
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>> 
 The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing 
 rules on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have 
 normally
>>> qualified.
 
>>> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a 
>>> fraction of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other 
>>> bad mortgages would have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages.
>>> Further, it is reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were 
>>> made even more non-CRA mortgages would have been made given the 
>>> additional
>> available capital.
>>> 
>>> There is plenty of 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

I won't attempt to prove a negative. It was you who made the claim CRA caused 
the housing crisis. It is therefore incumbent on you to prove the claim. This 
is especially true since you have provided no basis for your claim. I have 
provided facts related to the CRA that have not been refuted by you or anyone 
else..

Now then, here is your chance. Back up your claims. Refute the facts I have 
provided. Provide at least a theory as to how the CRA caused the housing crisis.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and you've
> provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for your
> statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably have to do
> it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this, as am I.  
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The
> FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
> Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply change the
> subject? I worry you formed your position without proper research.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie and 
>> Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
>> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
>> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
>> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what 
>> percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also publish 
>> what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The numbers 
>> are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
>> 
>> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 
>> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
>> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 
>> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private market for subprime.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
>>> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created 
>>> by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are 
>>> certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree 
>>> with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their 
>>> titles that bellied up to the trough.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> ImageStream
>>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
>>> inregulationofnet-neutrality
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>> 
 The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
 on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
>>> qualified.
 
>>> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a 
>>> fraction of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad 
>>> mortgages would have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages.
>>> Further, it is reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were 
>>> made even more non-CRA mortgages would have been made given the 
>>> additional
>> available capital.
>>> 
>>> There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing 
>>> is a waste of time.
>>> 
>>> -Matt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> 
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wirel

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

C'mon Jack, war is about trying to accumulate power, not get rid of excess
people.
 

Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)


 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality


Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or shelter
for everybody. 

But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody, there is
no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace". 

This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real peace
impossible. 

jack


Brad Belton wrote: 

I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven

since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  



Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be

peace.





Brad





-Original Message-

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

Behalf Of Jack Unger

Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM

To: WISPA General List

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of

net-neutrality



Good points.



When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 

the butter.







Robert West wrote:

  

Life, Liberty, Property.



Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  



For the common defense.



It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the

government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"

thinkers, it won't get any better.



As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax



and

  

the draft.  Now hear me out on this



Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or



form.

  

Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.

We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without

much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put



food

  

on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  



If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,



more

  

commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions



every

  

month down useless well.



Just my crazy thoughts.



Bob-















-Original Message-

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

Behalf Of Brad Belton

Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM

To: 'WISPA General List'

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation



of

  

net-neutrality



Jack,



 



Your police analogy is flawed.  



 



While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of



a

  

larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased

invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger



population

  

requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are

applied to all regardless of the size of population.



 



Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the

government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)

becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become

more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big

government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms

you enjoy.



 



Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because

they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless

providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors



open)

  

exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and



acted

  

upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government



stays

  

out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's

charge the better my business does!



 



What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM

is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to



take

  

TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out



of

  

their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small



business

  

with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground

that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment

by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.



 



Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ



people

  

weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of

which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if



it

  

were no

Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth

[Mike Hammett]

Have you looked at the network maps I posted just a few days ago to see if 
anyone has a network presence near you?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Ray & Jean" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:59 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth

> Marco
> We are looking for 50 meg pipe in Pulaski  Tn.16724 west college st.
> Ray
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marco Coelho" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth
>
>
>> Can you give an exact address and quantity of bandwidth you're looking
>> for?
>>
>> Marco
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Ray & Jean  
>> wrote:
>>> Anyone know of a cheap provider of bandwidth in southern middle
>>> Tennessee?
>>> Thanks Ray & Jean
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Marco C. Coelho
>> Argon Technologies Inc.
>> POB 875
>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
>> 903-455-5036
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

I've seen plenty of research Matt.  You ask for proof from me and you've
provided none yourself.  If you want to provide the basis for your
statements and have an argument, let's have it.  We'll probably have to do
it off-list, since I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this, as am I.  


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The
FCC'sroleinregulationofnet-neutrality

What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA?
Is your response to facts that challenge your position to simply change the
subject? I worry you formed your position without proper research.

-Matt
 
On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie and 
> Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's 
> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are 
> so sure of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must 
> disclose there numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what 
> percentage of the overall market they are. Further, banks also publish 
> what percentage of bad mortgages they have on the books. The numbers 
> are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.
> 
> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 
> 25 subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and 
> Freddie went from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 
> 24 percent in 2006 because of the enormous private market for subprime.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
>> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created 
>> by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are 
>> certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree 
>> with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their 
>> titles that bellied up to the trough.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
>> inregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
>> 
>>> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
>>> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
>> qualified.
>>> 
>> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a 
>> fraction of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad 
>> mortgages would have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages.
>> Further, it is reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were 
>> made even more non-CRA mortgages would have been made given the 
>> additional
> available capital.
>> 
>> There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing 
>> is a waste of time.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> -
>> --
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -
>> -
>> --
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
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>> -
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> WIS

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jack Unger]

Your statement is true when there is NOT enough food, clothing or
shelter for everybody. 

But when there IS enough food, clothing and shelter for everybody,
there is no need for war in order to achieve temporary "peace". 

This is why overpopulation is so bad - it creates war and makes real
peace impossible. 

jack


Brad Belton wrote:

  I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  

Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
peace.


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Good points.

When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 
the butter.



Robert West wrote:
  
  
Life, Liberty, Property.

Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  

For the common defense.

It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
thinkers, it won't get any better.

As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax

  
  and
  
  
the draft.  Now hear me out on this

Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or

  
  form.
  
  
Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put

  
  food
  
  
on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  

If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,

  
  more
  
  
commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions

  
  every
  
  
month down useless well.

Just my crazy thoughts.

Bob-







-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation

  
  of
  
  
net-neutrality

Jack,

 

Your police analogy is flawed.  

 

While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of

  
  a
  
  
larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger

  
  population
  
  
requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
applied to all regardless of the size of population.

 

Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
you enjoy.

 

Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors

  
  open)
  
  
exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and

  
  acted
  
  
upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government

  
  stays
  
  
out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
charge the better my business does!

 

What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to

  
  take
  
  
TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out

  
  of
  
  
their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small

  
  business
  
  
with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.

 

Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ

  
  people
  
  
weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if

  
  it
  
  
were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

 

I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
know.just coast along I guess?

 

Best,

 

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
To: WIS

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's roleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

What does your quip have to do with your earlier assertions regarding CRA? Is 
your response to facts that challenge your position to simply change the 
subject? I worry you formed your position without proper research.

-Matt
 
On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie and
> Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore. 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's
> roleinregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are so sure
> of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must disclose there
> numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what percentage of the
> overall market they are. Further, banks also publish what percentage of bad
> mortgages they have on the books. The numbers are there and CRA is a
> fraction. Look it up.
> 
> Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 25
> subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and Freddie went
> from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 24 percent in 2006
> because of the enormous private market for subprime.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
>> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created 
>> by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are 
>> certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree 
>> with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their 
>> titles that bellied up to the trough.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
>> inregulationofnet-neutrality
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
>> 
>>> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
>>> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
>> qualified.
>>> 
>> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a 
>> fraction of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad 
>> mortgages would have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. 
>> Further, it is reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were made 
>> even more non-CRA mortgages would have been made given the additional
> available capital.
>> 
>> There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing 
>> is a waste of time.
>> 
>> -Matt
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>> --
>> 
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>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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WISPA Wants You! Join today!

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole inregulationof net-neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

Brad,

Although I understand your valid point that you are pointing out I 
disagree.

You are assuming incorrectly  that homeowners and small WISPs are looking to 
the Government to hold their hand to solve their problems.
for example, I've done it on my own, and rose to the occation, I pay my 
bills even though I'm getting ripped off, and I honor my agreements.  Becaue 
I've been left to fend for myself, I have become stronger for it.  But what 
I was previously saying is that there is a double standard and not fair 
equal treatment to all, by the government, or from lenders.

Why should a middle class or more wealthy individual get help, but not 
someone in a more vulnerable position that could use the help? Expecially 
when that help could translate to public good. Sometimes when people get 
help they apply that help to enabling them to be a better contributor to the 
world. Asking for help does not mean they have to just be a permanent 
sponge.

As a young adult, I was to proud to ask for help, I had something to prove 
and had to do everything on my own. I was successful, but it was hard and I 
did not reach my potential. But as an experienced adult, I've learned there 
is nothing wrong with accepting help. Most people that are successfull 
didn't do it on their own, they got help from somebody in some way. Its the 
reality of this world.  Those that ask for help and take it do better than 
those that do it on their own.  There are very few real rags to riches 
stories where someone truly did it on their own, their own way.

Government should be a resource for people to get help. I never said anyone 
should "rely" on the government's help.  But if Bread is being passed out on 
th food line, I am equally worthy to put a peice on my plate.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Brad Belton" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole inregulationof 
net-neutrality


> "The Government isn't doing enough.  They are failing Homeowners, in 
> similar
> ways that they are failing to assist small ISPs.  They label them
> financially unworthy to give help to."
>
>
> This statement/sentiment in a nutshell is the problem.  Those that are
> looking to big government to hold their hand and make everything ok 
> because
> they feel they can't do anything for themselves.
>
> The government is doing precisely the opposite and involving itself into
> issues that it has no business being in.  This is why we're in the 
> situation
> we're in today...after decades of growing government we are now at the
> breaking point.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:42 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof
> net-neutrality
>
> Unemployment stats are also misleading.  For example, Many people had high
> dollar jobs when they qualified for their homes, then lot them. They then
> tppk jobs at half the salary because that is what they could find.
> UNemployment stats dont show that people are Employed but working in job 
> at
> half their normal salary. The people are now caught up in mortgages that 
> are
>
> more than they can afford, because their economic position changed. Then
> there was no way out of the situation. What do you do when the market is
> down and no one will buy your home that you can NO LONGER afford, but once
> could?
>
> I just dont believe that the reason for home market crashing isbecause the
> government was bad amd the Homeowners were not worthy enough financially 
> to
> be homeowners at the time they bought their homes.  It is extremely short
> sighted to think otherwise.  The problem primarilly lied with Middle Class
> borrowers, NOT low income borrowers.  Again, the results wont adequately
> show that because the MiIddle Class got a bailout from the Government, and
> the Super Rich got a Bailout from the government, but little ol low income
> was left on their own to fight off the wolves.
>
> One of the Largest tragedies of the ARRA efforts is that the people that
> need the help the most have been ignored.
>
> Its ironic when the government programs are helping people get rock bottom
> rates that can already can afford to pay their mortgages and had 
> reasonable
> rates, but yet people that are struggling, and potentially could continue
> paying their mortgage if they had the opportunity to reduced their loan
> shark rates down to reasonable lower interest rate, dont get the 
> opportuity.
>
> Its a crock.
>
> The Government isn't doing enough.  They are failing Homeowners, in 
> similar
> ways that they are failing to assist small ISPs.  They label them
> financially unworthy to give help to.
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & W

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Tom DeReggi]

Well, admittedly Tlinks dont have a very high PPS either.

Do I think Bullet will work out? Sure... For a little while.
But can you trust it to stay that way? Probably not. I wouldn't.

Not with that super low price Trango Promo until Feb 15th.

Tlink gets you... Interference scanner, Layer2 speed packet loss test, a 
rocksolid core that will hold up over time in heat and cold.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Jenkins" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet


>
> It will depend on how many packets per second it was passing. The
> bullets can do a lot of throughput but start having issues with more
> than 7-8k pps.
>
>
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no 
>> spare.
>>
>> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
>> weekend. Think it will work out?
>>
>> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>>
>> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
>> Broadband for Business
>> Public and Private WiFi
>>
>> Jerry Richardson
>> VP Operations
>> 925-260-4119 x2
>> Website   Blog 
>> Twitter 
>> LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's roleinregulationofnet-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

Talk to a mortgage lender...they have all become agents for Fannie and
Freddie.  Few of them do their own underwriting anymore. 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's
roleinregulationofnet-neutrality

You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are so sure
of CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must disclose there
numbers of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what percentage of the
overall market they are. Further, banks also publish what percentage of bad
mortgages they have on the books. The numbers are there and CRA is a
fraction. Look it up.

Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 25
subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and Freddie went
from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 24 percent in 2006
because of the enormous private market for subprime.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with 
> you on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created 
> by Fannie and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are 
> certainly other factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree 
> with you that there were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their 
> titles that bellied up to the trough.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role 
> inregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
> 
>> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
>> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
> qualified.
>> 
> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a 
> fraction of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad 
> mortgages would have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. 
> Further, it is reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were made 
> even more non-CRA mortgages would have been made given the additional
available capital.
> 
> There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing 
> is a waste of time.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> 
> --
> --
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation ofnet-neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

Matt,

Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
ofnet-neutrality


>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
>
>> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any 
>> unconstrained capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I 
>> could ;-). And unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely 
>> acts in its customers own best interests.
>>
>> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies 
>> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
>>
> It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The 
> government's role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow 
> towards being a monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient 
> competition to stop that ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent 
> the monopoly from abusing its position. The government must only set the 
> rules of the game and ensure market fairness through their rules. The 
> government shouldn't participate in the market either with its own entity 
> or by picking winners and losers through its actions.
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Jerry Richardson]

First unit failure stopped transmitting

Replacement unit failure is probably installer error (me).

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gerstenberger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

What was the issue with the Trango? Our 5010s and Link-45s have been 
solid, with the exception of the latest set I put out. Bad seal or 
something, was cooking the ethernet connector.

-Paul

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> that's what I though thanks
>
> on my way.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:52 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> 3.5 is for legacy products
> 5.1 is the latest for N products
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Jerry Richardson
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Thanks,
>> It's not an M - Ubiquity's firware site makes 3.5 the highest available
>> version.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Nick Olsen
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>>
>> I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op
>>
>> Nick Olsen
>> Network Engineer / Customer Support
>> (321) 205-1100 x106
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>>
>> I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide
>> channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1)
>> though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>> 
>>> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no
>>>   
>> spare.
>> 
>>> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the
>>>   
>> weekend. Think it will work out?
>> 
>>> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>>>
>>> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
>>> Broadband for Business
>>> Public and Private WiFi
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> VP Operations
>>> 925-260-4119 x2
>>> Website   Blog
>>>   
>> Twitter
>> LinkedIn
>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>   
>> 
>> 
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> -

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Paul Gerstenberger]

What was the issue with the Trango? Our 5010s and Link-45s have been 
solid, with the exception of the latest set I put out. Bad seal or 
something, was cooking the ethernet connector.

-Paul

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> that's what I though thanks
>
> on my way.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:52 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> 3.5 is for legacy products
> 5.1 is the latest for N products
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Jerry Richardson
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Thanks,
>> It's not an M - Ubiquity's firware site makes 3.5 the highest available
>> version.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Nick Olsen
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>>
>> I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op
>>
>> Nick Olsen
>> Network Engineer / Customer Support
>> (321) 205-1100 x106
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>>
>> I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide
>> channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1)
>> though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>> 
>>> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no
>>>   
>> spare.
>> 
>>> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the
>>>   
>> weekend. Think it will work out?
>> 
>>> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>>>
>>> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
>>> Broadband for Business
>>> Public and Private WiFi
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> VP Operations
>>> 925-260-4119 x2
>>> Website   Blog
>>>   
>> Twitter
>> LinkedIn
>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>   
>> 
>> 
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--

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

> The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if 
> they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it.

Exactly.  Thats a failure of this generation's American people and their 
values, not a failure of the Government.

And its not just a failure of the borrower. For example, Its also a failure 
of revolving credit vendors, that change the deal mid-stream, after the 
money is borrowed.

And what about those buyers that got construction loans at high Interest, 
that mutually agreed with their lenders that they'd adjust to a permanent 
low interest mortgage after contruction was complete? And then prior to the 
conversion, the Feds changed the mortgage lending qualifing rules? And the 
buyer was no longer able to qualify to convert their contruction loan to a 
regular low interest loan. And absolutely nothing changed about the home 
owner/building themself.

But my point here is that things dont only occur because people are 
irresponsible. Sometimes unforseen situation occur and condidtions change. I 
think its unreasonable to assume that people will always be able to predict 
the future.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof 
net-neutrality


> When I look at these things I think about they way my grandparents did 
> things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in 
> place.
>
> The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if 
> they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it. 
> That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't 
> pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of 
> you by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I pay 
> in.
>
> You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't 
> pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked 
> 16 or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many 
> people will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when 
> they can find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by 
> illegal immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many 
> Americans will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes to 
> pay the bills, they should be doing them.
>
> Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were losing 
> a home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the 
> other from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told 
> them you were losing your home because you lost your job and will not take 
> one paying a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My 
> dad quit school to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather 
> cut some fingers off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the bills. 
> He has done well for himself without the high school education.
>
> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs 
> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in 
> this country 50 to 60 years ago.
>
> Scottie
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
>
>>Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
>>regulationof
>>net-neutrality
>>
>>That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
>>lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
>>market for the paper.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>Jeff Broadwick
>>ImageStream
>>800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
>>regulationof
>>net-neutrality
>>
>>Brad,
>>
>>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
>>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
>>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>>
>>You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>>
>>Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
>>class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
>>continuing to sink money into this bad investment 

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Jerry Richardson]

that's what I though thanks

on my way.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

3.5 is for legacy products
5.1 is the latest for N products

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Jerry Richardson
wrote:

> Thanks,
> It's not an M - Ubiquity's firware site makes 3.5 the highest available
> version.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Nick Olsen
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Engineer / Customer Support
> (321) 205-1100 x106
>
> 
>
> From: "Michael Baird" 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide
> channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1)
> though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
> > Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no
> spare.
> >
> > I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the
> weekend. Think it will work out?
> >
> > The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
> >
> > [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> > Broadband for Business
> > Public and Private WiFi
> >
> > Jerry Richardson
> > VP Operations
> > 925-260-4119 x2
> > Website   Blog
> Twitter
> LinkedIn
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Jayson Baker]

3.5 is for legacy products
5.1 is the latest for N products

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Jerry Richardson
wrote:

> Thanks,
> It's not an M - Ubiquity's firware site makes 3.5 the highest available
> version.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Nick Olsen
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Engineer / Customer Support
> (321) 205-1100 x106
>
> 
>
> From: "Michael Baird" 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet
>
> I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide
> channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1)
> though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
> > Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no
> spare.
> >
> > I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the
> weekend. Think it will work out?
> >
> > The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
> >
> > [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> > Broadband for Business
> > Public and Private WiFi
> >
> > Jerry Richardson
> > VP Operations
> > 925-260-4119 x2
> > Website   Blog
> Twitter
> LinkedIn
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof net-neutrality

[Brad Belton]

"The Government isn't doing enough.  They are failing Homeowners, in similar
ways that they are failing to assist small ISPs.  They label them
financially unworthy to give help to."


This statement/sentiment in a nutshell is the problem.  Those that are
looking to big government to hold their hand and make everything ok because
they feel they can't do anything for themselves.

The government is doing precisely the opposite and involving itself into
issues that it has no business being in.  This is why we're in the situation
we're in today...after decades of growing government we are now at the
breaking point.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:42 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof
net-neutrality

Unemployment stats are also misleading.  For example, Many people had high 
dollar jobs when they qualified for their homes, then lot them. They then 
tppk jobs at half the salary because that is what they could find. 
UNemployment stats dont show that people are Employed but working in job at 
half their normal salary. The people are now caught up in mortgages that are

more than they can afford, because their economic position changed. Then 
there was no way out of the situation. What do you do when the market is 
down and no one will buy your home that you can NO LONGER afford, but once 
could?

I just dont believe that the reason for home market crashing isbecause the 
government was bad amd the Homeowners were not worthy enough financially to 
be homeowners at the time they bought their homes.  It is extremely short 
sighted to think otherwise.  The problem primarilly lied with Middle Class 
borrowers, NOT low income borrowers.  Again, the results wont adequately 
show that because the MiIddle Class got a bailout from the Government, and 
the Super Rich got a Bailout from the government, but little ol low income 
was left on their own to fight off the wolves.

One of the Largest tragedies of the ARRA efforts is that the people that 
need the help the most have been ignored.

Its ironic when the government programs are helping people get rock bottom 
rates that can already can afford to pay their mortgages and had reasonable 
rates, but yet people that are struggling, and potentially could continue 
paying their mortgage if they had the opportunity to reduced their loan 
shark rates down to reasonable lower interest rate, dont get the opportuity.

Its a crock.

The Government isn't doing enough.  They are failing Homeowners, in similar 
ways that they are failing to assist small ISPs.  They label them 
financially unworthy to give help to.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof 
net-neutrality


> That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
> lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
> market for the paper.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
> regulationof
> net-neutrality
>
> Brad,
>
>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
> You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>
> Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
> class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
> continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will 
> say
> that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
> losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
> choices.
> What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
> foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
> before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
> instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a 
> loan
> taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for 
> doing
> nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people 
> do
> holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
>
> And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
> opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly sett

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Josh Luthman]

I see you're down on 35 so you're feeling the same weather we are.

I have 3 customers that went down all in the same area around a 900 AP.
Spoke with one of them and at least that one has power (and a generator!)
I'm guessing the snow weighed down the antennas enough.  The AP definitely
isn't seeing any interference - it's a super low noise floor of -86.
Changed channels around the band.

Wonder if those yagi radome's from WB would prevent this.  Or those hideous
parabolic grids.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Robert West wrote:

> And that figures because the weather was nice all week but N!!!
> I got stuck on service calls and finally have the time to install a
> backhaul
> today...
>
> Sucks!
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:32 AM
> To: spie...@avolve.net; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> I can barely see down the street because of snow and in the next 24 hours
> we're on a storm alert.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> > hey, it's got more food.
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: Josh Luthman 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
> >
> > >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> > >
> > >Josh Luthman
> > >Office: 937-552-2340
> > >Direct: 937-552-2343
> > >1100 Wayne St
> > >Suite 1337
> > >Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue
> > >that counts."
> > >--- Winston Churchill
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> > >>
> > >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> > >>
> > >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> > >>
> > >> Bob-
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> > >> To: WISPA General List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >>
> > >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> > Village,
> > >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> > >>
> > >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> > >>
> > >> -- Original Message --
> > >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> > >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> > >>
> > >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> > >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> > >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> > >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
> if
> > >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> > >> >
> > >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> > medium,
> > >> >or small.
> > >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> > niche
> > >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
> just
> > >> >any vendor.
> > >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> > with
> > >> >home to make sure business continues.
> > >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is
> a
> > >> >plus.
> > >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> > as
> > >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> > >> >
> > >> >Regards,
> > >> >Chuck Hogg
> > >> >Shelby Broadband
> > >> >502-722-9292
> > >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> > >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >-Original Message-
> > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> > >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> > >> >To: WISPA General List
> > >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >> >
> > >> >Hi Matt,
> > >> >
> > >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that
> wispashow
> > >> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> > >> >
> > >> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> > >> >Commerce
> > >> >president he

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Jerry Richardson]

Thanks,
It's not an M - Ubiquity's firware site makes 3.5 the highest available version.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Nick Olsen
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op

Nick Olsen
Network Engineer / Customer Support
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Michael Baird" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide 
channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1) 
though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.

Regards
Michael Baird
> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no 
spare.
>
> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
weekend. Think it will work out?
>
> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>
> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> Broadband for Business
> Public and Private WiFi
>
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119 x2
> Website   Blog   
Twitter   
LinkedIn
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Nick Olsen]

I've got it if you/anyone needs it. you=op

Nick Olsen
Network Engineer / Customer Support
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Michael Baird" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:05 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide 
channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1) 
though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.

Regards
Michael Baird
> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no 
spare.
>
> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
weekend. Think it will work out?
>
> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>
> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> Broadband for Business
> Public and Private WiFi
>
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119 x2
> Website   Blog   
Twitter   
LinkedIn
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Brad Belton]

I would hope everyone would choose peace over war, but history has proven
since the beginning of time that peace is achieved through war.  

Without a clearly defined "Winner" and "Loser" of war there will never be
peace.


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Good points.

When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 
the butter.



Robert West wrote:
> Life, Liberty, Property.
>
> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  
>
> For the common defense.
>
> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>
> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax
and
> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>
> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or
form.
> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put
food
> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  
>
> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved,
more
> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions
every
> month down useless well.
>
> Just my crazy thoughts.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
> net-neutrality
>
> Jack,
>
>  
>
> Your police analogy is flawed.  
>
>  
>
> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of
a
> larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
> invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger
population
> requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
> applied to all regardless of the size of population.
>
>  
>
> Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
> government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
> becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
> more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
> government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
> you enjoy.
>
>  
>
> Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
> they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
> providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors
open)
> exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and
acted
> upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government
stays
> out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
> charge the better my business does!
>
>  
>
> What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
> is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to
take
> TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out
of
> their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small
business
> with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
> that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
> by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.
>
>  
>
> Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ
people
> weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
> which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if
it
> were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
>  
>
> I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
> Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
> know.just coast along I guess?
>
>  
>
> Best,
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Brad
>
>  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
> net-neutrality
>
>  
>
> Brad, 
>
> You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
> again. 
>
> When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to
have
> more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
> available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain
order
> is expected of government, be it

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Jayson Baker]

I'm down with Denver, since it's about an hour away.  But really, Vegas is
usually the cheapest to fly into, and cheap to stay at; with plenty to do
with a short walk from your hotel.  I've been in every casino in Vegas and
never taken a cab or had to drive.  Denver... ehh, not so much.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Chuck Profito wrote:

> How come we don't hear any one suggesting a show in Denver or Salt Lake?
> Pretty much the center of the country with MAJOR airline hubs direct to all
> points.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:03 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> I have a fridge full of beer you are welcome to.  I'll bring the whole
> fridge if I can go somewhere the weather isn't disgusting.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
> > crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and
> embarrass
> > him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..
> >
> > I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you
> have
> > to turn into this.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> > Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >
> >
> > Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> > hey, it's got more food.
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: Josh Luthman 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
> >
> > >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> > >
> > >Josh Luthman
> > >Office: 937-552-2340
> > >Direct: 937-552-2343
> > >1100 Wayne St
> > >Suite 1337
> > >Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue
> > >that counts."
> > >--- Winston Churchill
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> > >>
> > >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> > >>
> > >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> > >>
> > >> Bob-
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> > >> To: WISPA General List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >>
> > >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> > Village,
> > >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> > >>
> > >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> > >>
> > >> -- Original Message --
> > >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> > >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> > >>
> > >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> > >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> > >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> > >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
> if
> > >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> > >> >
> > >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> > medium,
> > >> >or small.
> > >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> > niche
> > >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
> just
> > >> >any vendor.
> > >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> > with
> > >> >home to make sure business continues.
> > >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is
> a
> > >> >plus.
> > >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> > as
> > >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> > >> >
> > >> >Regards,
> > >> >Chuck Hogg
> > >> >Shelby Broadband
> > >> >502-722-9292
> > >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> > >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >-Original Message-
> > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> > >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> > >> >To: WISPA General List
> > >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >> >
> > >> >Hi Matt,
> > >> >
> > >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that
> wispashow

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof net-neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

Unemployment stats are also misleading.  For example, Many people had high 
dollar jobs when they qualified for their homes, then lot them. They then 
tppk jobs at half the salary because that is what they could find. 
UNemployment stats dont show that people are Employed but working in job at 
half their normal salary. The people are now caught up in mortgages that are 
more than they can afford, because their economic position changed. Then 
there was no way out of the situation. What do you do when the market is 
down and no one will buy your home that you can NO LONGER afford, but once 
could?

I just dont believe that the reason for home market crashing isbecause the 
government was bad amd the Homeowners were not worthy enough financially to 
be homeowners at the time they bought their homes.  It is extremely short 
sighted to think otherwise.  The problem primarilly lied with Middle Class 
borrowers, NOT low income borrowers.  Again, the results wont adequately 
show that because the MiIddle Class got a bailout from the Government, and 
the Super Rich got a Bailout from the government, but little ol low income 
was left on their own to fight off the wolves.

One of the Largest tragedies of the ARRA efforts is that the people that 
need the help the most have been ignored.

Its ironic when the government programs are helping people get rock bottom 
rates that can already can afford to pay their mortgages and had reasonable 
rates, but yet people that are struggling, and potentially could continue 
paying their mortgage if they had the opportunity to reduced their loan 
shark rates down to reasonable lower interest rate, dont get the opportuity. 
Its a crock.

The Government isn't doing enough.  They are failing Homeowners, in similar 
ways that they are failing to assist small ISPs.  They label them 
financially unworthy to give help to.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationof 
net-neutrality


> That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
> lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
> market for the paper.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
> regulationof
> net-neutrality
>
> Brad,
>
>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
> You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>
> Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
> class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
> continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will 
> say
> that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
> losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
> choices.
> What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
> foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
> before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
> instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a 
> loan
> taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for 
> doing
> nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people 
> do
> holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
>
> And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
> opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations 
> to
> make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't exist.
>
> Some People loose homes because a home is a 30 year commitment, and 
> its
> hard for anyone to predict how one's life will pan out every year for 30
> years. All it takes is one bad year, and there goes the house. People 
> loose
> houses because they loose jobs.  People loose houses because most personal
> debt is secured by their house, and loosing the house is the easiest way 
> to
> get rid of the other debt. People lose houses because they cant live 
> within
> their mean in other areas of their life. Or because they set their sights 
> to
> high. But the biggest reason people default, is because they develop a 
> sense
> of satisfaction or entitlement in screwing their lender when they feel 
> they
> were taken advantage of by their lendor. Even with Bankruptcy, there are
> some interes

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Mike]

Oh I agree wholeheartedly with the belief election reform is needed.  A
taxpayer funded system with a set, and sensible budget would keep the well
funded from swaying the electorate and becoming beholding to special
interests.  

Term limits for all congressional seats should be set at 6 years. 

What is the dollar check off for on our Federal Tax return?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 1.  Define "overpopulation"?  I saw some numbers once that the entire
> world's population could have a nice size house on a decent piece of
> property in Texas...can't imagine the infrastructure requirements, but
> whatever.
>   
What was your number-cruncher smoking?
>  
> 2.  Political corruption is a reality in any system.  
Well, were certainly seeing what political corruption has done to OUR 
system. Rather than just accept it, I'd rather try to eliminate it 
through public funding of all political campaigns.
> It's the best argument
> for term limits.  Personally, I'd like to see the personal limits on
> contributions removed and make campaigns post their contributions on the
> internet.  6-7 rich guys financed McGovern's campaign before all the
> post-Watergate regulations. 
>  
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>
>  
>
>   _  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
> net-neutrality
>
>
> Just keep saying to yourself. 
>
> 1. Overpopulation is good. 
>
> 2  Political corruption does not exist. 
>
> Good luck and best wishes. ;-) 
>
> jack
>
>
> RickG wrote: 
>
> Jack, make that two trolls :)
>
>
>
> With all due respect, isnt that exactly how liberals respond to
conservative
>
> claims - by demonizing them? Marks comments were spot on and I couldnt
have
>
> said them any better, so I'm resending them with my name on the end. I
>
> respect your right to your viewpoint but I hope you have data to support
the
>
> claims. I know the the data is there for the more conservative claims. So,
>
> just in case you hit delete:
>
>
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
>
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
>
> except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
>
> department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
>
> pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
>
> the tags on your mattress.
>
>
>
> It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
>
> possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to
consume
>
> nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
>
> dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to
all
>
> of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
>
> everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
>
> that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without
massive
>
> intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
>
> is simply not forgivable in the common realm.
>
>
>
> Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
>
> 90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
>
> without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible
if
>
> it were so.
>
>
>
> Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the
merits
>
> of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
>
> ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things
we
>
> expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why
from
>
> you?
>
>
>
> -RickG
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Jack Unger  
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   
>
>  Sorry Mark,
>
>
>
> I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and responsible
>
> posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER elicit the same
>
> response from me.
>
>
>
> I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the
>
> troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MDK wrote:
>
>
>
> Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of
>
> stuff.
>
>
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
>
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
>
> except in time of war.We as a nation pro

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

And that figures because the weather was nice all week but N!!!
I got stuck on service calls and finally have the time to install a backhaul
today...

Sucks!


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:32 AM
To: spie...@avolve.net; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I can barely see down the street because of snow and in the next 24 hours
we're on a storm alert.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:

>
> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> hey, it's got more food.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>
> >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
continue
> >that counts."
> >--- Winston Churchill
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
> >
> >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> >>
> >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> >>
> >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> Village,
> >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> >>
> >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> >>
> >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
if
> >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >> >
> >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> medium,
> >> >or small.
> >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> niche
> >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
just
> >> >any vendor.
> >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> with
> >> >home to make sure business continues.
> >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >> >plus.
> >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> as
> >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Chuck Hogg
> >> >Shelby Broadband
> >> >502-722-9292
> >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >> >To: WISPA General List
> >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >> >
> >> >Hi Matt,
> >> >
> >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> >> >Commerce
> >> >president here's my latest project:
> >> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> >> >
> >> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.
Herding
> >> >the
> >> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> >> >
> >> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> >> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> >> >people.
> >> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
> >> >
> >> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
> >> >chairman
> >> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of
> the
> >> >
> >> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done
> all
> >> >
> >> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
> >> >ranch.
> >> >
> >> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
> >> >or 3
> >> >people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get
> the
> >> >
> >> >help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event
etc.
> >>

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Matt Jenkins]

It will depend on how many packets per second it was passing. The 
bullets can do a lot of throughput but start having issues with more 
than 7-8k pps.


Jerry Richardson wrote:
> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no spare.
>
> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
> weekend. Think it will work out?
>
> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>
> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> Broadband for Business
> Public and Private WiFi
>
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119 x2
> Website   Blog   
> Twitter   
> LinkedIn
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Mike]

I think the REAL center is somewhere in Kansas.  

Having said that, I like Denver and would definitely go there for a show.
There are plenty of other things to do there too for family members or
thrill seekers alike.  

Yep, cabin fever is beginning to set in here in Central Iowa.  I have been
attempting to quantify snow attenuation on microwave signals.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Profito
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:18 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

How come we don't hear any one suggesting a show in Denver or Salt Lake?
Pretty much the center of the country with MAJOR airline hubs direct to all
points. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I have a fridge full of beer you are welcome to.  I'll bring the whole
fridge if I can go somewhere the weather isn't disgusting.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
> crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and
embarrass
> him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..
>
> I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you
have
> to turn into this.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>
> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> hey, it's got more food.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>
> >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
continue
> >that counts."
> >--- Winston Churchill
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> >
> >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> >>
> >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> >>
> >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> Village,
> >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> >>
> >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> >>
> >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
if
> >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >> >
> >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> medium,
> >> >or small.
> >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> niche
> >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
just
> >> >any vendor.
> >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> with
> >> >home to make sure business continues.
> >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >> >plus.
> >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> as
> >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Chuck Hogg
> >> >Shelby Broadband
> >> >502-722-9292
> >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >> >To: WISPA General List
> >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >> >
> >> >Hi Matt,
> >> >
> >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >> >emails reply to that li

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jack Unger]

Good points.

When I have to choose between guns (war) or butter (peace), I'll choose 
the butter.



Robert West wrote:
> Life, Liberty, Property.
>
> Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  
>
> For the common defense.
>
> It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
> government. As long as there are greedy people and the "what about mine?"
> thinkers, it won't get any better.
>
> As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax and
> the draft.  Now hear me out on this
>
> Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or form.
> Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
> We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
> much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put food
> on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  
>
> If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved, more
> commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions every
> month down useless well.
>
> Just my crazy thoughts.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
> net-neutrality
>
> Jack,
>
>  
>
> Your police analogy is flawed.  
>
>  
>
> While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of a
> larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
> invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger population
> requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
> applied to all regardless of the size of population.
>
>  
>
> Agreed, the more people that "give up" and begin to simply depend on the
> government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
> becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
> more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
> government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
> you enjoy.
>
>  
>
> Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
> they can provide a better service/price than the "big guys".  Wireless
> providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors open)
> exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and acted
> upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government stays
> out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
> charge the better my business does!
>
>  
>
> What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
> is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to take
> TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out of
> their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small business
> with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
> that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
> by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.
>
>  
>
> Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ people
> weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
> which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if it
> were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
>  
>
> I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
> Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
> know.just coast along I guess?
>
>  
>
> Best,
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Brad
>
>  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
> net-neutrality
>
>  
>
> Brad, 
>
> You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
> again. 
>
> When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
> more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
> available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
> is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
> police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
> and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
> a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
> to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. "Socialism" (however that is
> defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 
>
> America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
> governme

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Jack Unger]

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 1.  Define "overpopulation"?  I saw some numbers once that the entire
> world's population could have a nice size house on a decent piece of
> property in Texas...can't imagine the infrastructure requirements, but
> whatever.
>   
What was your number-cruncher smoking?
>  
> 2.  Political corruption is a reality in any system.  
Well, were certainly seeing what political corruption has done to OUR 
system. Rather than just accept it, I'd rather try to eliminate it 
through public funding of all political campaigns.
> It's the best argument
> for term limits.  Personally, I'd like to see the personal limits on
> contributions removed and make campaigns post their contributions on the
> internet.  6-7 rich guys financed McGovern's campaign before all the
> post-Watergate regulations. 
>  
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>
>  
>
>   _  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
> net-neutrality
>
>
> Just keep saying to yourself. 
>
> 1. Overpopulation is good. 
>
> 2  Political corruption does not exist. 
>
> Good luck and best wishes. ;-) 
>
> jack
>
>
> RickG wrote: 
>
> Jack, make that two trolls :)
>
>
>
> With all due respect, isnt that exactly how liberals respond to conservative
>
> claims - by demonizing them? Marks comments were spot on and I couldnt have
>
> said them any better, so I'm resending them with my name on the end. I
>
> respect your right to your viewpoint but I hope you have data to support the
>
> claims. I know the the data is there for the more conservative claims. So,
>
> just in case you hit delete:
>
>
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
>
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
>
> except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
>
> department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
>
> pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
>
> the tags on your mattress.
>
>
>
> It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
>
> possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
>
> nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
>
> dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
>
> of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
>
> everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
>
> that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
>
> intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
>
> is simply not forgivable in the common realm.
>
>
>
> Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
>
> 90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
>
> without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
>
> it were so.
>
>
>
> Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
>
> of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
>
> ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
>
> expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
>
> you?
>
>
>
> -RickG
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Jack Unger  
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   
>
>  Sorry Mark,
>
>
>
> I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and responsible
>
> posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER elicit the same
>
> response from me.
>
>
>
> I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the
>
> troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MDK wrote:
>
>
>
> Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of
>
> stuff.
>
>
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
>
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
>
> except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
>
> department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
>
> pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
>
> the tags on your mattress.
>
>
>
> It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
>
> possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
>
> nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
>
> dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
>
> of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
>
> everything we do, we would be MU

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Glenn Kelley]

Josh -  just use the van - 
if its here - its cold enough 
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> I have a fridge full of beer you are welcome to.  I'll bring the whole
> fridge if I can go somewhere the weather isn't disgusting.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
>> crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and embarrass
>> him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..
>> 
>> I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you have
>> to turn into this.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> 
>> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
>> hey, it's got more food.
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: Josh Luthman 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>> 
>>> Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
>>> 
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
>>> that counts."
>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
 
 OSU grad, Stuart?
 
 I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
 
 Bob-
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
 Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
>> Village,
 Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
 
 Oh food, wine and song as well.
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: "Chuck Hogg" 
 Reply-To: WISPA General List 
 Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
 
> I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
> it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> 
> 1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
>> medium,
> or small.
> 2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
>> niche
> in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
> any vendor.
> 3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
>> with
> home to make sure business continues.
> 4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> plus.
> 5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
>> as
> an ISP to a tradeshow.
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> 
> Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> Commerce
> president here's my latest project:
> http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> 
> Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
> the
> cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> 
> We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> people.
> http://www.stumpjumper

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Chuck Profito]

How come we don't hear any one suggesting a show in Denver or Salt Lake?
Pretty much the center of the country with MAJOR airline hubs direct to all
points. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I have a fridge full of beer you are welcome to.  I'll bring the whole
fridge if I can go somewhere the weather isn't disgusting.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
> crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and
embarrass
> him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..
>
> I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you
have
> to turn into this.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>
> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> hey, it's got more food.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>
> >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
continue
> >that counts."
> >--- Winston Churchill
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> >
> >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> >>
> >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> >>
> >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> Village,
> >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> >>
> >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> >>
> >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less
if
> >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >> >
> >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> medium,
> >> >or small.
> >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> niche
> >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not
just
> >> >any vendor.
> >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> with
> >> >home to make sure business continues.
> >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >> >plus.
> >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> as
> >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Chuck Hogg
> >> >Shelby Broadband
> >> >502-722-9292
> >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >> >To: WISPA General List
> >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >> >
> >> >Hi Matt,
> >> >
> >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> >> >Commerce
> >> >president here's my latest project:
> >> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> >> >
> >> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.
Herding
> >> >the
> >> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> >> >
> >> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> >> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> >> >people.
> >> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
> >> >
> >> >The race takes nearly an entir

Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

[Jeremie Chism]

Agreed. I get 3 or 4 a week.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Butch Evans  wrote:

> On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 19:27 -0600, Jeremie Chism wrote:
>> I've used a company called 4ipnet.com. Reasonable prices and they  
>> have
>> most features.
>
> Including being a spammer.  I've now had to filter their emails, since
> they will NOT stop sending me their crap.
>
> -- 
> 
> * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *
> 
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

[Butch Evans]

On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 19:27 -0600, Jeremie Chism wrote: 
> I've used a company called 4ipnet.com. Reasonable prices and they have  
> most features.

Including being a spammer.  I've now had to filter their emails, since
they will NOT stop sending me their crap.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole in regulation of net-neutrality

[Eje Gustafsson]

So absolutely true. Reminds me time to trade in my 07 Avalanche one of the
running lights are out and battery charging system seems to have some issue
at times. Besides it's old now as well... Thinking of it tires start to get
a bit worn down as well. Yeah I need to trade it in. ;) 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:50 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole in regulation of
net-neutrality

One thing that many people will not admit to is the true total cost of
owning a home vs. renting. While anyone can say, "hey for the price you are
paying for rent you could have a mortgage", that is only part of the cost of
home ownership. There are the taxes, maintenance and repairs, insurance and
other costs that a renter is not responsible for. Many people who bought
homes comparing only the rent vs. mortgage payment were already at the
limits of their income. When any additional costs came up such as increases
in taxes and insurance, they were not able to keep up. Add any of the
foolish practices such as the balloon payments and you have a recipe for
disaster. This type of American is the same person that will trade their car
in at a loss when it needs new tires and brakes. They do this because they
don't have the money to pay for the repair but if a dealer can just roll
them in to the next monthly payment on another car without too much of an
increase they do it. That's been one of the biggest problems in the auto
industry, it caught up to them.

Fact is Americans do not save any money, they spend every last dollar they
get every week and then some by living off credit cards and home equity
loans and they did this before all of this crisis. Times will get tough for
another 15-20 years until we pay down that debt. In a country where we don't
produce anything, all we are doing is circulating money we never really
generated from any raw materials and products. It's finally caught up with
us and we have to rectify that imbalance. It's going to be a painful lesson.
The good thing is though it should create another "greatest generation" of
people who lived through it and vowed not to let it happen again. They will
teach at least one and maybe two generations that lesson. Then it will fade
in to the past as just a statement in history books where nobody really
remembers how bad it was and the cycle will start all over again.



Thank You,
Brian Webster


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:11 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole
inregulationofnet-neutrality


On issue here is Carters "dream" in the 70's that every American should have
a house or right to have a house of their own. This was for much laying
dormant but Bush era brought this back.

To own a house is not a right. It's a privilege, not everyone should or are
suitable to own a house the idea a house for every American is seriously
flawed. This was what started the housing boom in the 70's out in California
that quickly spread across the nation. Creating over time hyper inflated
prices but was a slow progress but was once again flared up during Bush era
and the push was one once again raising house prices even yet higher and in
a push for this idiotic loans was designed to make this happen. Balloon
loans that was design to get you in a house, sell that house after 10 years
to get you into a bigger house since you now was supposed to have a better
job, bigger family and your current house would be worth lot more. There are
two fundamental flaws with this thinking. 1) the new house you buy will
obviously be much more expensive as well and this Balloon loan was design to
pay minimal principal on your current home until 10 years ahead. 2) it
assumes your salary does not only keep up with inflation but advancing a
head of it not taking into consideration of cyclic economic down turns,
layoffs and failures. Loans created with a rose tinted glasses on never
looking at worse case scenarios or even any bad scenarios.
Then you have the other kind of loans like Lending Tree and Quickbooks
started offer among others. Lower your monthly payment plans, in the fine
print you discover that your only paying interest and NO principal. That
sure helps people get out of debt. Even worse yet was some loans that
Countrywide extended where the payment people made on their loans didn't
even cover the full interest so the loan only grow. Bank of America ended up
paying a steep fine over these loans (BoA bought Countrywide in 08).

The current and past credit rating system in general is at fault at large.
To get credit you have to have credit and the more credit you have the more
credit you can get. Of course this is slightly better than it once was wh

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Michael Baird]

I've got BulletM's doing 30 mb over a 10 mile shot on 20mhz wide 
channel. Make sure you get the latest super secret firmware (5.1.1) 
though, to avoid the WDS/Arp issues.

Regards
Michael Baird
> Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no spare.
>
> I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
> weekend. Think it will work out?
>
> The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.
>
> [cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
> Broadband for Business
> Public and Private WiFi
>
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119 x2
> Website   Blog   
> Twitter   
> LinkedIn
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Josh Luthman]

I have a fridge full of beer you are welcome to.  I'll bring the whole
fridge if I can go somewhere the weather isn't disgusting.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
> crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and embarrass
> him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..
>
> I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you have
> to turn into this.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>
> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> hey, it's got more food.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>
> >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> >that counts."
> >--- Winston Churchill
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> >
> >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> >>
> >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> >>
> >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> Village,
> >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> >>
> >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> >>
> >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
> >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >> >
> >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> medium,
> >> >or small.
> >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> niche
> >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
> >> >any vendor.
> >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> with
> >> >home to make sure business continues.
> >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >> >plus.
> >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> as
> >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Chuck Hogg
> >> >Shelby Broadband
> >> >502-722-9292
> >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >> >To: WISPA General List
> >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >> >
> >> >Hi Matt,
> >> >
> >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> >> >Commerce
> >> >president here's my latest project:
> >> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> >> >
> >> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
> >> >the
> >> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> >> >
> >> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> >> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> >> >people.
> >> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
> >> >
> >> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
> >> >chairman
> >> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of
> the
> >> >
> >> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done
> all
> >> >
> >> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
> >> >ranch.
> >> >
> >> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
> 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof net-neutrality

[Glenn Kelley]

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

>> The government has done all it can to push the idea that "if you rent - 
>> your a failure"
> 
> How is that a bad thing? Financial Stability 101, go buy a home. Every 
> family should have a home.
> I'm not critisizing people who have decided renting is better for them, 
> there can be many reasons for that.
> But if owning a home is not something possible for the average American, and 
> low income person, its a sad situation.
> 
>> Let's face it - Loans were written to people that made minimum wage -
>> much like the first Credit card I was given with a 20K limit as a freshman 
>> in college without a job.
> 
> What planet do you live on?
> 
> As the minimum wage HomeOwner drives away from their foreclosed home in 
> their BMW
> 
> I can tell in my 20 years of homebuying, Minimum Wage buyers was never an 
> option. Sure FHA or HOC type programs might have enabled getting into a home 
> with less money down, or subsidized homeownership for needy single parents 
> and such. But those aren't the loans getting foreclosed on. The government 
> made those home afffordable, even in down economies.
> 
> But the minimum wage claim is rediculous.  Heck, I cant even qualify for a 
> Home Refinance, and I'm bringing home the 6 digits. The homes getting 
> foreclosed on are the big dollar home that were more expensive than the 
> buyer can afford with an average paying job. Getting into those homes were 
> not minimum wage application processes. They were the show me the 2 years a 
> Tax Returns with 6 figured.


You however make way to much to ever even be considered by the "Fair Housing" 
and Community Housing folks.
They guarantee you a government loan - with payments as low as $150 /mo  at a 
maximum of 5.4% interest. 

Take a peek @ how far that got the City of Detroit ... 
Take a peek @ how far that got the City of Camden NJ ... 
Take a peek @ how far that got the City of Newark 



> 
> Homes that are getting foreclosed on are the Elderly. Homes that are 50-80% 
> paid off. Where the homeowner can no longer access teh equity, because they 
> are looked at a credit risk, because of their age or no longer holds full 
> time job living on retirement income.  Where a spouse has died, or where 
> they were living on retirement income. Where their County property Tax 
> skyrocketed, as neighbor's appraisals skyrocketed in the reaslestate boom, 
> to an amount where the Tax payment was more than their original mortgage 
> payment used to be.

I argue against minimum wage for this exact reason - lets face it.  If we have 
to pay people more - we raise the rates on what we sell and service. 
However - the little old lady next door on her retirement income / social 
security ... fixed income - basically means -- no raise for them 



> 
> The problem was never low income buyers. The problem was the real Estate 
> book reached a record high that had no alternative but to crash. Supply and 
> Demand became so power full that homes reached price tags that only 
> millionaires could afford, and loans were sneaked through anyway.
> 
> But the new mortgage loan rules are rediculously conservative. It was the 
> unscrupulous lenders that caused the crash, and now honorable prospective 
> American home buyers have to pay the penalty.
> 
> I can give you an example of one person, that had 75k in the bank, Had 50% 
> equity in their home, a Fixed income from a government pension, Never missed 
> a payment in 20 years, even had a credit score in the 700s, and was denied 
> refinance because they couldn't prove a high enough steady income the year 
> before. They want to see a salaried job. They want to see historical Tax 
> returns.  If someone is self employed, and does smart accounting to reduce 
> their income and tax liabilty, it will likely mean they will no longer 
> qualify for home ownership. In the case above the person was a land 
> developer, and didn't sell a home the prior year because it made sense to 
> hold on to the land until the market picks up to get a larger return.
> 

I can share tons of examples of folks who made next to nothing - but learned to 
play the game under the "fair housing" program.

The biggest scam going right now is - folks are buying a cheap house - getting 
the $8K - then flipping it to their wife - getting an additional 8K then 
flipping it to their 18 yr old son - they get another $8K 
to their daughter - yet another $8K 

and then - the ability for them to grab a $24K check to give to a bank for the 
actual down payment on a different mtg hits 

All on the backs of - yes you guessed it. 

- 
I just had my agent in Ohio ask me about doing this - and wanting to know If I 
wanted to back date the purchase f

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

But it's the statement, not the man I agree with.  Anyone could have said it
and the logic still holds true.  Besides, they took issue with the Vegas
mention the irony of it all.

I thought stimulus money was for the 25 buck prostitutes in Vegas.  I may be
wrong.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 >But what Obama said was.
>
>"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
>said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
>for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

This is the same guy pouring out stimulus money from the same entity that is
$13 trillion dollars in debt?

Sounds like "Do as I say not as I do".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Oh, I totally agree.  I'm not a gambler either, I may as well just walk
in,
> hand the first person I see 500 bucks and walk out.  The experience would
> be
> pretty much the same for me.
>
> But what Obama said was.
>
> "You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
> said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
> for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."
>
> I'm no longer a fan of Obama but I'll say that I see no malice in that
> statement.  That's basic economic advice that my grandfather would have
> told
> me years ago if I would have been listening or what my wife tells me every
> day, again, if I were to be listening.  (Long pause while you all sit and
> nod your heads reluctantly to the "wife" statement.  We will never admit
> that they are right!)  Vegas is just an example that everyone understands
> and it's true.  If he would have said, "What we need to do is go put all
of
> our money is risky ventures, cross our fingers and wait for the big
payoff,
> like we do in Vegas" they would have applauded him..
>
> Wait, that's what got the globe in such a mess in the first
> place.  Maybe I should do what the wife says and NOT buy that
> 512" Jumbo-Tron for the basement from Amazon.  I was really wanting that
> too.  *sad*
>
>
> My favorite thing, however, is when a load of radio crap shows up and she
> says "What do you need more of that antenna stuff for?" with that
universal
> female look of disapproval on her face  Then an hour later go on
> about how we need to make more money.  A bit of a disconnect.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Bob, personally, I dont gamble and I believe gambling is not good
> stewardship of money but I do believe everyone has a right to spend their
> money the way they see fit. Some may call it a waste but I imagine there
> are
> plenty of items and activites that you & I probably do that could fall
into
> the same category. Like everything in life, it should be done in
> moderation.
> For Obama, he just wants more control.
> -RickG
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Yeah.  Imagine having someone think that wasting ones money to gambling
> > being a bad thing and then actually saying so.  As my grandmother may of
> > said if she ever said it.
> >
> > "Why, I never!"
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:54 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >
> > Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most
> > days
> > > we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
> > > cheap,
> > > and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
> > > > normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
> > > >
> > > > Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near
as
> > > > packed
> > > > as
> > > > it was 10 years ago too.
> > > >
> > > > 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
> > first
> > > > place I stopped at, a Drury.
> > > >
> > > > Don't take your organs to heave

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

Yes, and notice how Josh suddenly clammed up once it was settled to all
crash at his house and drink his beer, break his Playstation3 and embarrass
him in front of all his neighbors at 3 in the morning..  

I see how things are, Josh.  After all we've been through together you have
to turn into this.

Bob




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
hey, it's got more food.

-- Original Message --
From: Josh Luthman 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500

>Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
>
>Josh Luthman
>Office: 937-552-2340
>Direct: 937-552-2343
>1100 Wayne St
>Suite 1337
>Troy, OH 45373
>
>"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
>that counts."
>--- Winston Churchill
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West
wrote:
>
>> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
>>
>> OSU grad, Stuart?
>>
>> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>
>> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German Village,
>> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
>>
>> Oh food, wine and song as well.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
>>
>> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
>> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
>> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
>> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
>> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
>> >
>> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
>> >or small.
>> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
>> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
>> >any vendor.
>> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
>> >home to make sure business continues.
>> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
>> >plus.
>> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
>> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Chuck Hogg
>> >Shelby Broadband
>> >502-722-9292
>> >ch...@shelbybb.com
>> >http://www.shelbybb.com
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
>> >To: WISPA General List
>> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
>> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> >
>> >Hi Matt,
>> >
>> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
>> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
>> >
>> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
>> >Commerce
>> >president here's my latest project:
>> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
>> >
>> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
>> >the
>> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
>> >
>> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
>> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
>> >people.
>> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
>> >
>> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
>> >chairman
>> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the
>> >
>> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all
>> >
>> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
>> >ranch.
>> >
>> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
>> >or 3
>> >people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the
>> >
>> >help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
>> >we
>> >need to find a different way.
>> >
>> >So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
>> >we
>> >do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
>> >
>> >Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
>> >some
>> >kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how
>> >
>> >many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
>> >we
>> >want?  Who should speak?
>> >
>> >Much of the pla

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof net-neutrality

[Robert West]

Ah  Actually minimum wage earners and even the unemployed could
purchase a home if they had the right person doing the paperwork.  We have a
customer who "was" a mortgage broker.  He explained it all to me one day.
If the broker had a few banks that would buy the paper, pretty much sight
unseen, they could put down anything they wanted and resell the mortgage
within minutes.  They would charge higher interest rates based on the lack
of certain documents, such an proof of employment!  If unemployed, they
could fill out as self employed and charge a higher rate.  The type of thing
that Countrywide was doing.  They were paid on commission and for reselling
the loan, they had no concern for the long term effects on the borrower.

And of course.  It fell apart.  Was just a ponzi scheme.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
net-neutrality

> The government has done all it can to push the idea that "if you rent - 
> your a failure"

How is that a bad thing? Financial Stability 101, go buy a home. Every 
family should have a home.
I'm not critisizing people who have decided renting is better for them, 
there can be many reasons for that.
But if owning a home is not something possible for the average American, and

low income person, its a sad situation.

>Let's face it - Loans were written to people that made minimum wage -
>much like the first Credit card I was given with a 20K limit as a freshman 
>in college without a job.

What planet do you live on?

As the minimum wage HomeOwner drives away from their foreclosed home in 
their BMW

I can tell in my 20 years of homebuying, Minimum Wage buyers was never an 
option. Sure FHA or HOC type programs might have enabled getting into a home

with less money down, or subsidized homeownership for needy single parents 
and such. But those aren't the loans getting foreclosed on. The government 
made those home afffordable, even in down economies.

But the minimum wage claim is rediculous.  Heck, I cant even qualify for a 
Home Refinance, and I'm bringing home the 6 digits. The homes getting 
foreclosed on are the big dollar home that were more expensive than the 
buyer can afford with an average paying job. Getting into those homes were 
not minimum wage application processes. They were the show me the 2 years a 
Tax Returns with 6 figured.

Homes that are getting foreclosed on are the Elderly. Homes that are 50-80% 
paid off. Where the homeowner can no longer access teh equity, because they 
are looked at a credit risk, because of their age or no longer holds full 
time job living on retirement income.  Where a spouse has died, or where 
they were living on retirement income. Where their County property Tax 
skyrocketed, as neighbor's appraisals skyrocketed in the reaslestate boom, 
to an amount where the Tax payment was more than their original mortgage 
payment used to be.

The problem was never low income buyers. The problem was the real Estate 
book reached a record high that had no alternative but to crash. Supply and 
Demand became so power full that homes reached price tags that only 
millionaires could afford, and loans were sneaked through anyway.

But the new mortgage loan rules are rediculously conservative. It was the 
unscrupulous lenders that caused the crash, and now honorable prospective 
American home buyers have to pay the penalty.

I can give you an example of one person, that had 75k in the bank, Had 50% 
equity in their home, a Fixed income from a government pension, Never missed

a payment in 20 years, even had a credit score in the 700s, and was denied 
refinance because they couldn't prove a high enough steady income the year 
before. They want to see a salaried job. They want to see historical Tax 
returns.  If someone is self employed, and does smart accounting to reduce 
their income and tax liabilty, it will likely mean they will no longer 
qualify for home ownership. In the case above the person was a land 
developer, and didn't sell a home the prior year because it made sense to 
hold on to the land until the market picks up to get a larger return.

The fact is the Government should continue making it easier to obtain homes.

They just need to tighten up on fraud.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Glenn Kelley" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof 
net-neutrality


Having pastored in the nations poorest city I would far from disagree with 
you.
Folks that should have never been able to have a home were given the ability

to obtain loans -
That is an understatement.

The government has done all it can to push the i

Re: [WISPA] [ Possible Spam ] Re: [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Glenn Kelley]

Especially today into tomorrow and Sunday into Monday ;-)
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
> 
>> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
>> 
>> OSU grad, Stuart?
>> 
>> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
>> 
>> Bob-
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German Village,
>> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
>> 
>> Oh food, wine and song as well.
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
>> 
>>> I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
>>> ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
>>> than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
>>> don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
>>> it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
>>> 
>>> 1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
>>> or small.
>>> 2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
>>> in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
>>> any vendor.
>>> 3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
>>> home to make sure business continues.
>>> 4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
>>> plus.
>>> 5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
>>> an ISP to a tradeshow.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck Hogg
>>> Shelby Broadband
>>> 502-722-9292
>>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>> 
>>> Hi Matt,
>>> 
>>> I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
>>> emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
>>> Commerce
>>> president here's my latest project:
>>> http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
>>> 
>>> Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
>>> the
>>> cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
>>> 
>>> We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
>>> weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
>>> people.
>>> http://www.stumpjumpers.org
>>> 
>>> The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
>>> chairman
>>> and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the
>>> 
>>> physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all
>>> 
>>> over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
>>> ranch.
>>> 
>>> I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
>>> or 3
>>> people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the
>>> 
>>> help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
>>> we
>>> need to find a different way.
>>> 
>>> So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
>>> we
>>> do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
>>> 
>>> Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
>>> some
>>> kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how
>>> 
>>> many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
>>> we
>>> want?  Who should speak?
>>> 
>>> Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show
>>> or
>>> one done by someone else.
>>> 
>>> I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car
>>> shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate
>>> settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I
>>> 
>>> don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of
>>> that.  I want to see new product, 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole in regulation of net-neutrality

[Brian Webster]

One thing that many people will not admit to is the true total cost of
owning a home vs. renting. While anyone can say, "hey for the price you are
paying for rent you could have a mortgage", that is only part of the cost of
home ownership. There are the taxes, maintenance and repairs, insurance and
other costs that a renter is not responsible for. Many people who bought
homes comparing only the rent vs. mortgage payment were already at the
limits of their income. When any additional costs came up such as increases
in taxes and insurance, they were not able to keep up. Add any of the
foolish practices such as the balloon payments and you have a recipe for
disaster. This type of American is the same person that will trade their car
in at a loss when it needs new tires and brakes. They do this because they
don't have the money to pay for the repair but if a dealer can just roll
them in to the next monthly payment on another car without too much of an
increase they do it. That's been one of the biggest problems in the auto
industry, it caught up to them.

Fact is Americans do not save any money, they spend every last dollar they
get every week and then some by living off credit cards and home equity
loans and they did this before all of this crisis. Times will get tough for
another 15-20 years until we pay down that debt. In a country where we don't
produce anything, all we are doing is circulating money we never really
generated from any raw materials and products. It's finally caught up with
us and we have to rectify that imbalance. It's going to be a painful lesson.
The good thing is though it should create another "greatest generation" of
people who lived through it and vowed not to let it happen again. They will
teach at least one and maybe two generations that lesson. Then it will fade
in to the past as just a statement in history books where nobody really
remembers how bad it was and the cycle will start all over again.



Thank You,
Brian Webster


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:11 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srole
inregulationofnet-neutrality


On issue here is Carters "dream" in the 70's that every American should have
a house or right to have a house of their own. This was for much laying
dormant but Bush era brought this back.

To own a house is not a right. It's a privilege, not everyone should or are
suitable to own a house the idea a house for every American is seriously
flawed. This was what started the housing boom in the 70's out in California
that quickly spread across the nation. Creating over time hyper inflated
prices but was a slow progress but was once again flared up during Bush era
and the push was one once again raising house prices even yet higher and in
a push for this idiotic loans was designed to make this happen. Balloon
loans that was design to get you in a house, sell that house after 10 years
to get you into a bigger house since you now was supposed to have a better
job, bigger family and your current house would be worth lot more. There are
two fundamental flaws with this thinking. 1) the new house you buy will
obviously be much more expensive as well and this Balloon loan was design to
pay minimal principal on your current home until 10 years ahead. 2) it
assumes your salary does not only keep up with inflation but advancing a
head of it not taking into consideration of cyclic economic down turns,
layoffs and failures. Loans created with a rose tinted glasses on never
looking at worse case scenarios or even any bad scenarios.
Then you have the other kind of loans like Lending Tree and Quickbooks
started offer among others. Lower your monthly payment plans, in the fine
print you discover that your only paying interest and NO principal. That
sure helps people get out of debt. Even worse yet was some loans that
Countrywide extended where the payment people made on their loans didn't
even cover the full interest so the loan only grow. Bank of America ended up
paying a steep fine over these loans (BoA bought Countrywide in 08).

The current and past credit rating system in general is at fault at large.
To get credit you have to have credit and the more credit you have the more
credit you can get. Of course this is slightly better than it once was when
a collage kid could get $10k credit card credit with no steady income.
What makes sense to me on a credit system is. You have a steady income, no
credit then your credit is good. The more you earn and the less credit you
have the better your credit rating is. Once you start getting open credit
your rating goes down.

Ohh well. Just me being sensible I guess ;)

Dang it. Stop talking politics guys back to wireless now lol

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadw

Re: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Nick Olsen]

Don't see why not.
I've seen them do more then 25mb/s easy.

Nick Olsen
Network Engineer / Customer Support
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Jerry Richardson" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:45 AM
To: "WISPA General List" , "motor...@afmug.com" 

Subject: [WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no spare.

I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
weekend. Think it will work out?

The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.

[cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
Broadband for Business
Public and Private WiFi

Jerry Richardson
VP Operations
925-260-4119 x2
Website   Blog   
Twitter   
LinkedIn



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[WISPA] Temporarily replace Atlas 5010 with Ubiquity Bullet

[Jerry Richardson]

Atlas link went down AGAIN! Probably my fault this time but have no spare.

I have a pair of the Bullet that I could slap in there to get through the 
weekend. Think it will work out?

The Trangos were passing ~25Mbps of traffic aggregate.

[cid:image001.gif@01CAA63F.65692320]
Broadband for Business
Public and Private WiFi

Jerry Richardson
VP Operations
925-260-4119 x2
Website   Blog   
Twitter   
LinkedIn

<>


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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

Hahahahaha!  "Marked STRONG on the top.."  I love it!

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:41 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Grainbelt from Minnesota, marked "STRONG" on the top. Commonly referred to
in the Midwest as "liquid cornflakes."



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:00 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

H...  Mikes beer or Josh's beer...

Depends on the beer, Mike.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Phoenix.  Dry and warm.  

*OR* I live 5 minutes up the hill from a world class casino and hotel
complex. http://www.meskwaki.com/

I could host, and you could take turns climbing my towers, and riding the
zip lines here at Gilly Hollow.  One of them is a terror at 750 feet.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:18 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn’t about the
show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
A show in Vegas has become a cliché.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 

If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
IMHO 

When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for
prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I
would like to take my family on vacation. 

Disney sounds better ;-)

Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 



_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:

> Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
> rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
>> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
>> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
conference.
>> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
>> enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
>> available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
visited
>> probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
even
>> find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
>> Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
>> Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
minivan
>> on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
>> alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
>> suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
hour.
>> Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
on
>> a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
>> parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
to
>> sleep.
>> 
>> The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
>> 
>> / Eje
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
>> room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
No
>> available rooms for 50 miles.
>> 
>> I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
>> abandon the thing!  LOL
>> 
>> -B-
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Blake Bowers"
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
>> To:; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> I have never 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

Yep, I agree with your statement (which was well put).

Chuck

On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Matt Liotta wrote:

> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
> 
>> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained 
>> capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And 
>> unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its 
>> customers own best interests.
>> 
>> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies 
>> because innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
>> 
> It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The government's 
> role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow towards being a 
> monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition to stop that 
> ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly from abusing 
> its position. The government must only set the rules of the game and ensure 
> market fairness through their rules. The government shouldn't participate in 
> the market either with its own entity or by picking winners and losers 
> through its actions.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

"When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"

>From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!






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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Every time I go out to lunch and speak with the waitress, I very often hear
> that people just came in at 10am for beer and liquor complaining that can't
> get a job.
> 
> So logically, at 10am you go out drinking and complaining instead of job
> hunting.  Makes sense in a "I'm fat, dumb, lazy and getting paid by
> unemployment" kind of way.

However, that hasn't changed throughout history. It definitely is NOT a new 
feature in our society.

Chuck


> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> 
>> Agreed.  Who gives a crap if your house lost $30k in value?  Pay your damn
>> bills.
>> 
>> Unemployment is what it is because people are too lazy or too proud of
>> themselves to get a lesser job (or two).
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> From: "Scottie Arnett" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:17 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein
>> regulationofnet-neutrality> When I look at these things I think about they
>> way my grandparents did
>> things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in
>> place.
>>> 
>>> The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if
>>> they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with
>> it.
>>> That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't
>>> pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of
>>> you by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I
>> pay
>>> in.
>>> 
>>> You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't
>>> pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked
>>> 16 or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many
>>> people will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when
>>> they can find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by
>>> illegal immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many
>>> Americans will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes
>> to
>>> pay the bills, they should be doing them.
>>> 
>>> Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were
>> losing
>>> a home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the
>>> other from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told
>>> them you were losing your home because you lost your job and will not
>> take
>>> one paying a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My
>>> dad quit school to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather
>>> cut some fingers off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the
>> bills.
>>> He has done well for himself without the high school education.
>>> 
>>> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
>>> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in
>>> this country 50 to 60 years ago.
>>> 
>>> Scottie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
>>> 
 Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
 
 Best,
 
 
 Brad
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
 Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
 regulationof
 net-neutrality
 
 That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
 lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
 market for the paper.
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Jeff
 
 
 Jeff Broadwick
 ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
 regulationof
 net-neutrality
 
 Brad,
 
> People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
 
 You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
 
 Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decis

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote:

> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs 
> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this 
> country 50 to 60 years ago.

Funny you should say that.

I did some reading when I was a kid from books written from 1910 to 1935. 
Admittedly, I was an odd kid to be fascinated by how people saw the world 40 to 
60 years earlier (this was the mid-to-late 1970's). The statements you're 
making here were almost exactly what people were saying then about generations 
that preceded them.

Also, I spent a great deal of time talking to my grandfather (and later some of 
his friends) about what life was like when he grew up (born in 1913) and his 
experiences in the great depression (he worked in the CCC camps and was a 
train-vagabound, traveling across the country). They spent a LOT of time 
unemployed and just causing trouble or getting into trouble. Heavy drinking was 
much more accepted then than now.

There are some interesting things that HAVE changed a lot since then.

People got into fist fights a heck of a lot more easily back then ;-).

There was a much greater sense of belonging to a neighborhood then compared to 
now. I see that as a loss but probably unavoidable.

Moral and ethical standards have shifted some, but if anything, they are higher 
now. For example, people thought nothing of calling blacks the "n-word" and 
segregating them from whites. The definition of what is "white" itself has 
greatly expanded.

This has changed even since I was a kid. I remember when in the 1960's we were 
moving from an all-catholic, white neighborhood, that we got obscene phone 
calls and rocks through our windows when a black family made an offer on our 
house (which we intended to accept until a neighbor topped their offer by 10%) 
to keep the house 'white'). If you don't see this as a dramatic, and important, 
shift in morals/ethics then I don't know what is. I see this as strongly 
positive.

The level of volunteerism amongst men seems to be a lot higher now than it was 
then. Women being in the working world has decreased their participation, but I 
would count that as a higher level of ethics among men (because it represents a 
greater level of consciousness, not just a greater amount of time) and neutral 
among women. I see this as strongly positive.

Men 50 and 60 years ago thought nothing about bingeing with the guys Friday 
nights (or every night). Abuse of drugs (including alcohol) has waxed and 
wained over time but is certainly lower now than it was 40 years ago, for 
example. Though I'm sure that still happens, it's really not considered normal 
any more. I see this as a strong change in morals/ethics.

I'd honestly hate to see a world that reverted to the morals and ethics of 50 
to 60 years ago. Maybe people worked harder (but I doubt it-EVERYONE I know 
words hard now, even with all the other things that compete for our attention) 
but as a society, discrimination was rampant, there wasn't nearly so many 
opportunities for upward mobility, men and women weren't treated nearly as 
equally, etc. We're not in such a bad place now.

Chuck

> 
> Scottie 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
> 
>> Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>> net-neutrality
>> 
>> That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
>> lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
>> market for the paper. 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>> net-neutrality
>> 
>> Brad,
>> 
>>> People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been 
>>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big 
>>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>> 
>> You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>> 
>> Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
>> class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
>> continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will say
>> that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
>> losi

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Robert West]

100% correct.

Too much of the "Me", needs to be more "Us".



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof
net-neutrality

When I look at these things I think about they way my grandparents did
things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in
place.

The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if
they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it.
That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't
pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of you
by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I pay in.

You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't
pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked 16
or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many people
will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when they can
find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by illegal
immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many Americans
will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes to pay the
bills, they should be doing them.

Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were losing a
home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the other
from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told them you
were losing your home because you lost your job and will not take one paying
a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My dad quit school
to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather cut some fingers
off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the bills. He has done well
for himself without the high school education.

I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this
country 50 to 60 years ago.

Scottie 


-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600

>Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>net-neutrality
>
>That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
>lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
>market for the paper. 
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>Jeff Broadwick
>ImageStream
>800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>net-neutrality
>
>Brad,
>
>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been 
>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big 
>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
>You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>
>Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
>class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
>continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will say
>that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
>losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
>choices.
>What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
>foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
>before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
>instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a loan
>taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for doing
>nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people
do
>holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
>
>And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
>opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations to
>make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't exist.
>
>Some People loose homes because a home is a 30 year commitment, and its
>hard for anyone to predict how one's life will pan out every year for 30
>years. All it takes is one bad year, and there goes the house. People loose
>houses because they loose jobs.  People loose houses because most personal
>debt is secured by their 

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Josh Luthman]

I can barely see down the street because of snow and in the next 24 hours
we're on a storm alert.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:

>
> Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but
> hey, it's got more food.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500
>
> >Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> >that counts.”
> >--- Winston Churchill
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
> >
> >> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
> >>
> >> OSU grad, Stuart?
> >>
> >> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> >> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German
> Village,
> >> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
> >>
> >> Oh food, wine and song as well.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
> >>
> >> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
> >> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >> >
> >> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large,
> medium,
> >> >or small.
> >> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special
> niche
> >> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
> >> >any vendor.
> >> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch
> with
> >> >home to make sure business continues.
> >> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >> >plus.
> >> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend
> as
> >> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Chuck Hogg
> >> >Shelby Broadband
> >> >502-722-9292
> >> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >> >To: WISPA General List
> >> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >> >
> >> >Hi Matt,
> >> >
> >> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> >> >Commerce
> >> >president here's my latest project:
> >> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> >> >
> >> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
> >> >the
> >> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> >> >
> >> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> >> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> >> >people.
> >> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
> >> >
> >> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
> >> >chairman
> >> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of
> the
> >> >
> >> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done
> all
> >> >
> >> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
> >> >ranch.
> >> >
> >> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
> >> >or 3
> >> >people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get
> the
> >> >
> >> >help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
> >> >we
> >> >need to find a different way.
> >> >
> >> >So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
> >> >we
> >> >do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
> >> >
> >> >Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
> >> >some
> >> >kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected,
> how
> >> >
> >> >many vendors, do we want more training or displ

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Josh Luthman]

 >But what Obama said was.
>
>"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
>said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
>for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

This is the same guy pouring out stimulus money from the same entity that is
$13 trillion dollars in debt?

Sounds like "Do as I say not as I do".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Oh, I totally agree.  I'm not a gambler either, I may as well just walk in,
> hand the first person I see 500 bucks and walk out.  The experience would
> be
> pretty much the same for me.
>
> But what Obama said was.
>
> "You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
> said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
> for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."
>
> I'm no longer a fan of Obama but I'll say that I see no malice in that
> statement.  That's basic economic advice that my grandfather would have
> told
> me years ago if I would have been listening or what my wife tells me every
> day, again, if I were to be listening.  (Long pause while you all sit and
> nod your heads reluctantly to the "wife" statement.  We will never admit
> that they are right!)  Vegas is just an example that everyone understands
> and it's true.  If he would have said, "What we need to do is go put all of
> our money is risky ventures, cross our fingers and wait for the big payoff,
> like we do in Vegas" they would have applauded him..
>
> Wait, that's what got the globe in such a mess in the first
> place.  Maybe I should do what the wife says and NOT buy that
> 512" Jumbo-Tron for the basement from Amazon.  I was really wanting that
> too.  *sad*
>
>
> My favorite thing, however, is when a load of radio crap shows up and she
> says "What do you need more of that antenna stuff for?" with that universal
> female look of disapproval on her face  Then an hour later go on
> about how we need to make more money.  A bit of a disconnect.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Bob, personally, I dont gamble and I believe gambling is not good
> stewardship of money but I do believe everyone has a right to spend their
> money the way they see fit. Some may call it a waste but I imagine there
> are
> plenty of items and activites that you & I probably do that could fall into
> the same category. Like everything in life, it should be done in
> moderation.
> For Obama, he just wants more control.
> -RickG
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Yeah.  Imagine having someone think that wasting ones money to gambling
> > being a bad thing and then actually saying so.  As my grandmother may of
> > said if she ever said it.
> >
> > "Why, I never!"
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:54 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >
> > Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most
> > days
> > > we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
> > > cheap,
> > > and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
> > > > normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
> > > >
> > > > Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
> > > > packed
> > > > as
> > > > it was 10 years ago too.
> > > >
> > > > 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
> > first
> > > > place I stopped at, a Drury.
> > > >
> > > > Don't take your organs to heaven,
> > > > heaven knows we need them down here!
> > > > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Brian Webster" 
> > > > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited
> lodging
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > area and the hams already book that capacity up lon

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Stuart Pierce]

Hey now, the weather is nice today. Granted Columbus isn't Kettering, but hey, 
it's got more food.

-- Original Message --
From: Josh Luthman 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:30 -0500

>Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!
>
>Josh Luthman
>Office: 937-552-2340
>Direct: 937-552-2343
>1100 Wayne St
>Suite 1337
>Troy, OH 45373
>
>“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
>that counts.”
>--- Winston Churchill
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West wrote:
>
>> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
>>
>> OSU grad, Stuart?
>>
>> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>
>> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German Village,
>> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
>>
>> Oh food, wine and song as well.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
>>
>> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
>> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
>> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
>> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
>> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
>> >
>> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
>> >or small.
>> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
>> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
>> >any vendor.
>> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
>> >home to make sure business continues.
>> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
>> >plus.
>> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
>> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Chuck Hogg
>> >Shelby Broadband
>> >502-722-9292
>> >ch...@shelbybb.com
>> >http://www.shelbybb.com
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
>> >To: WISPA General List
>> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
>> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> >
>> >Hi Matt,
>> >
>> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
>> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
>> >
>> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
>> >Commerce
>> >president here's my latest project:
>> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
>> >
>> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
>> >the
>> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
>> >
>> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
>> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
>> >people.
>> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
>> >
>> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
>> >chairman
>> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the
>> >
>> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all
>> >
>> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
>> >ranch.
>> >
>> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
>> >or 3
>> >people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the
>> >
>> >help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
>> >we
>> >need to find a different way.
>> >
>> >So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
>> >we
>> >do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
>> >
>> >Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
>> >some
>> >kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how
>> >
>> >many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
>> >we
>> >want?  Who should speak?
>> >
>> >Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show
>> >or
>> >one done by someone else.
>> >
>> >I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car
>> >shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate
>> >settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I
>> >
>> >don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of
>> >that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and
>> >spend time with my peers.
>> >
>> >My fear with Ed's group is that they w

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

> That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained 
> capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And 
> unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its 
> customers own best interests.
> 
> If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because 
> innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.
> 
It should be every capitalist desire to become a monopolist. The government's 
role should be to encourage businesses to innovate and grow towards being a 
monopoly while hoping the market has sufficient competition to stop that 
ultimate result. If not, then step in to prevent the monopoly from abusing its 
position. The government must only set the rules of the game and ensure market 
fairness through their rules. The government shouldn't participate in the 
market either with its own entity or by picking winners and losers through its 
actions.

-Matt





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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof net-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

Yup...opensecrets.org 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:50 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
net-neutrality


On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 make campaigns post their contributions on the
> internet. 

That's already available if the donation is over $99.

Chuck








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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationofnet-neutrality

[Eje Gustafsson]

On issue here is Carters "dream" in the 70's that every American should have
a house or right to have a house of their own. This was for much laying
dormant but Bush era brought this back. 

To own a house is not a right. It's a privilege, not everyone should or are
suitable to own a house the idea a house for every American is seriously
flawed. This was what started the housing boom in the 70's out in California
that quickly spread across the nation. Creating over time hyper inflated
prices but was a slow progress but was once again flared up during Bush era
and the push was one once again raising house prices even yet higher and in
a push for this idiotic loans was designed to make this happen. Balloon
loans that was design to get you in a house, sell that house after 10 years
to get you into a bigger house since you now was supposed to have a better
job, bigger family and your current house would be worth lot more. There are
two fundamental flaws with this thinking. 1) the new house you buy will
obviously be much more expensive as well and this Balloon loan was design to
pay minimal principal on your current home until 10 years ahead. 2) it
assumes your salary does not only keep up with inflation but advancing a
head of it not taking into consideration of cyclic economic down turns,
layoffs and failures. Loans created with a rose tinted glasses on never
looking at worse case scenarios or even any bad scenarios. 
Then you have the other kind of loans like Lending Tree and Quickbooks
started offer among others. Lower your monthly payment plans, in the fine
print you discover that your only paying interest and NO principal. That
sure helps people get out of debt. Even worse yet was some loans that
Countrywide extended where the payment people made on their loans didn't
even cover the full interest so the loan only grow. Bank of America ended up
paying a steep fine over these loans (BoA bought Countrywide in 08). 

The current and past credit rating system in general is at fault at large.
To get credit you have to have credit and the more credit you have the more
credit you can get. Of course this is slightly better than it once was when
a collage kid could get $10k credit card credit with no steady income. 
What makes sense to me on a credit system is. You have a steady income, no
credit then your credit is good. The more you earn and the less credit you
have the better your credit rating is. Once you start getting open credit
your rating goes down. 

Ohh well. Just me being sensible I guess ;) 

Dang it. Stop talking politics guys back to wireless now lol

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:39 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role
inregulationofnet-neutrality

I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with you
on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created by Fannie
and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are certainly other
factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree with you that there
were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their titles that bellied up to the
trough. 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role
inregulationofnet-neutrality


On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:

> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
qualified.
> 
No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a fraction
of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad mortgages would
have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. Further, it is
reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were made even more non-CRA
mortgages would have been made given the additional available capital.

There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing is a
waste of time.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

Oh, I totally agree.  I'm not a gambler either, I may as well just walk in,
hand the first person I see 500 bucks and walk out.  The experience would be
pretty much the same for me.

But what Obama said was.

"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama
said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save
for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

I'm no longer a fan of Obama but I'll say that I see no malice in that
statement.  That's basic economic advice that my grandfather would have told
me years ago if I would have been listening or what my wife tells me every
day, again, if I were to be listening.  (Long pause while you all sit and
nod your heads reluctantly to the "wife" statement.  We will never admit
that they are right!)  Vegas is just an example that everyone understands
and it's true.  If he would have said, "What we need to do is go put all of
our money is risky ventures, cross our fingers and wait for the big payoff,
like we do in Vegas" they would have applauded him..  

Wait, that's what got the globe in such a mess in the first
place.  Maybe I should do what the wife says and NOT buy that
512" Jumbo-Tron for the basement from Amazon.  I was really wanting that
too.  *sad*


My favorite thing, however, is when a load of radio crap shows up and she
says "What do you need more of that antenna stuff for?" with that universal
female look of disapproval on her face  Then an hour later go on
about how we need to make more money.  A bit of a disconnect.

Bob-

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Bob, personally, I dont gamble and I believe gambling is not good
stewardship of money but I do believe everyone has a right to spend their
money the way they see fit. Some may call it a waste but I imagine there are
plenty of items and activites that you & I probably do that could fall into
the same category. Like everything in life, it should be done in moderation.
For Obama, he just wants more control.
-RickG

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Yeah.  Imagine having someone think that wasting ones money to gambling
> being a bad thing and then actually saying so.  As my grandmother may of
> said if she ever said it.
>
> "Why, I never!"
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:54 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker  >wrote:
>
> > Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most
> days
> > we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
> > cheap,
> > and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
> > > normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
> > >
> > > Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
> > > packed
> > > as
> > > it was 10 years ago too.
> > >
> > > 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
> first
> > > place I stopped at, a Drury.
> > >
> > > Don't take your organs to heaven,
> > > heaven knows we need them down here!
> > > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Brian Webster" 
> > > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > >
> > >
> > > > Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited
lodging
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
> > > > convention.
> > > > There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
> > your
> > > > idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
> > > > locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
> > > > higher
> > > > airfare.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank You,
> > > > Brian Webster
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> ]On
> > > > Behalf Of Robert West
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
> > > > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..
> > > >
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof net-neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

> The government has done all it can to push the idea that "if you rent - 
> your a failure"

How is that a bad thing? Financial Stability 101, go buy a home. Every 
family should have a home.
I'm not critisizing people who have decided renting is better for them, 
there can be many reasons for that.
But if owning a home is not something possible for the average American, and 
low income person, its a sad situation.

>Let's face it - Loans were written to people that made minimum wage -
>much like the first Credit card I was given with a 20K limit as a freshman 
>in college without a job.

What planet do you live on?

As the minimum wage HomeOwner drives away from their foreclosed home in 
their BMW

I can tell in my 20 years of homebuying, Minimum Wage buyers was never an 
option. Sure FHA or HOC type programs might have enabled getting into a home 
with less money down, or subsidized homeownership for needy single parents 
and such. But those aren't the loans getting foreclosed on. The government 
made those home afffordable, even in down economies.

But the minimum wage claim is rediculous.  Heck, I cant even qualify for a 
Home Refinance, and I'm bringing home the 6 digits. The homes getting 
foreclosed on are the big dollar home that were more expensive than the 
buyer can afford with an average paying job. Getting into those homes were 
not minimum wage application processes. They were the show me the 2 years a 
Tax Returns with 6 figured.

Homes that are getting foreclosed on are the Elderly. Homes that are 50-80% 
paid off. Where the homeowner can no longer access teh equity, because they 
are looked at a credit risk, because of their age or no longer holds full 
time job living on retirement income.  Where a spouse has died, or where 
they were living on retirement income. Where their County property Tax 
skyrocketed, as neighbor's appraisals skyrocketed in the reaslestate boom, 
to an amount where the Tax payment was more than their original mortgage 
payment used to be.

The problem was never low income buyers. The problem was the real Estate 
book reached a record high that had no alternative but to crash. Supply and 
Demand became so power full that homes reached price tags that only 
millionaires could afford, and loans were sneaked through anyway.

But the new mortgage loan rules are rediculously conservative. It was the 
unscrupulous lenders that caused the crash, and now honorable prospective 
American home buyers have to pay the penalty.

I can give you an example of one person, that had 75k in the bank, Had 50% 
equity in their home, a Fixed income from a government pension, Never missed 
a payment in 20 years, even had a credit score in the 700s, and was denied 
refinance because they couldn't prove a high enough steady income the year 
before. They want to see a salaried job. They want to see historical Tax 
returns.  If someone is self employed, and does smart accounting to reduce 
their income and tax liabilty, it will likely mean they will no longer 
qualify for home ownership. In the case above the person was a land 
developer, and didn't sell a home the prior year because it made sense to 
hold on to the land until the market picks up to get a larger return.

The fact is the Government should continue making it easier to obtain homes. 
They just need to tighten up on fraud.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Glenn Kelley" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof 
net-neutrality


Having pastored in the nations poorest city I would far from disagree with 
you.
Folks that should have never been able to have a home were given the ability 
to obtain loans -
That is an understatement.

The government has done all it can to push the idea that "if you rent - your 
a failure"
They have made it all to easy for folks to "own a home" -never even 
bothering to figure out if its a worthy cause.

Let's face it - Loans were written to people that made minimum wage -
much like the first Credit card I was given with a 20K limit as a freshman 
in college without a job.

Perhaps we should take a step back and simply ask - Instead of Frannie and 
Freddy - perhaps The Government does not belong in the home ownership game.
If you look at the price of the average home since 1890 until today - you 
will find that it appears at first to be a great investment.
However - if you adjust that thinking with the rate of inflation - you would 
realize that for many - it is far from the American Dream...
The Saga of Home ownership and real estate is really one of a relatively 
flat history - except for the past few years where folks were able to flip 
before the drop... (2006-2007)

Many people utilize their home as the ultimate credit card...

They get locked into this pattern of either mortgaging to pay for their 
lifestyle - or.

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:34 AM, RickG wrote:

> Jack, The only companies that "can do whatever they want to you whenever
> they want to do it" are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who -
> big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the
> government?

That statement completely ignores history. The tendency of any unconstrained 
capitalist is to form a monopoly. Hell, *I'd* do it if I could ;-). And 
unconstrained capitalism that achieves a monopoly rarely acts in its customers 
own best interests.

If nothing else, it's in our society's interest to prevent monopolies because 
innovation stagnates in a monoploy situation.

Some restraint by government is necessary to keep the system from damaging 
itself. Part of your argument is specious since by definition once government 
restrains most monopolies, the only ones left are the ones it allows (but 
there's no real content in that statement). There are very few created 
monopolies (mail still and phones from a long time ago being two of them).

Chuck


> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:
> 
>> So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
>> companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
>> do it.
>> 
>> BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh
>> 
>> 
>> Frank Crawford wrote:
>> 
>> YES
>> 
>> Jack Unger wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
>> support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
>> it in a bathtub?
>> 
>> Glenn Kelley wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
>> telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
>> oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he 
>> gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband 
>> plan for Amercia)
>> “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
>> Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
>> this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another 
>> type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and 
>> application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the 
>> government be able to keep up?”
>> 
>> 
>> Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -->
>> _
>> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>>  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 
>> 1993www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

"When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"

>From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!






WISPA W

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Josh Luthman]

Every time I go out to lunch and speak with the waitress, I very often hear
that people just came in at 10am for beer and liquor complaining that can't
get a job.

So logically, at 10am you go out drinking and complaining instead of job
hunting.  Makes sense in a "I'm fat, dumb, lazy and getting paid by
unemployment" kind of way.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Agreed.  Who gives a crap if your house lost $30k in value?  Pay your damn
> bills.
>
> Unemployment is what it is because people are too lazy or too proud of
> themselves to get a lesser job (or two).
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Scottie Arnett" 
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:17 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein
>  regulationofnet-neutrality> When I look at these things I think about they
> way my grandparents did
> things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in
> place.
> >
> > The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if
> > they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with
> it.
> > That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't
> > pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of
> > you by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I
> pay
> > in.
> >
> > You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't
> > pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked
> > 16 or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many
> > people will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when
> > they can find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by
> > illegal immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many
> > Americans will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes
> to
> > pay the bills, they should be doing them.
> >
> > Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were
> losing
> > a home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the
> > other from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told
> > them you were losing your home because you lost your job and will not
> take
> > one paying a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My
> > dad quit school to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather
> > cut some fingers off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the
> bills.
> > He has done well for himself without the high school education.
> >
> > I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
> > more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in
> > this country 50 to 60 years ago.
> >
> > Scottie
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Brad Belton" 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
> >
> >>Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
> >>
> >>Best,
> >>
> >>
> >>Brad
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> >>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
> >>To: 'WISPA General List'
> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> >>regulationof
> >>net-neutrality
> >>
> >>That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
> >>lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
> >>market for the paper.
> >>
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >>Jeff Broadwick
> >>ImageStream
> >>800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> >>+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> >>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
> >>To: WISPA General List
> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> >>regulationof
> >>net-neutrality
> >>
> >>Brad,
> >>
> >>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
> >>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
> >>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
> >>
> >>You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
> >>
> >>Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
> >>class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
> >>continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will
> >>say
> >>that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload
> their
> >>losing investment (House) to so

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Mike Hammett]

Agreed.  Who gives a crap if your house lost $30k in value?  Pay your damn 
bills.

Unemployment is what it is because people are too lazy or too proud of 
themselves to get a lesser job (or two).


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:17 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC'srolein
regulationofnet-neutrality> When I look at these things I think about they way 
my grandparents did 
things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in 
place.
>
> The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if 
> they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it. 
> That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't 
> pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of 
> you by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I pay 
> in.
>
> You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't 
> pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked 
> 16 or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many 
> people will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when 
> they can find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by 
> illegal immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many 
> Americans will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes to 
> pay the bills, they should be doing them.
>
> Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were losing 
> a home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the 
> other from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told 
> them you were losing your home because you lost your job and will not take 
> one paying a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My 
> dad quit school to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather 
> cut some fingers off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the bills. 
> He has done well for himself without the high school education.
>
> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs 
> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in 
> this country 50 to 60 years ago.
>
> Scottie
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
>
>>Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
>>regulationof
>>net-neutrality
>>
>>That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
>>lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
>>market for the paper.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>Jeff Broadwick
>>ImageStream
>>800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>>+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
>>regulationof
>>net-neutrality
>>
>>Brad,
>>
>>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
>>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
>>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>>
>>You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>>
>>Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
>>class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
>>continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will 
>>say
>>that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
>>losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
>>choices.
>>What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
>>foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
>>before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
>>instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a 
>>loan
>>taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for 
>>doing
>>nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people 
>>do
>>holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
>>
>>And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
>>opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations 
>>to
>>make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationofnet-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

You keep make unsubstantiated claims. Where is your data? If you are so sure of 
CRA's effect where is the data? I mean every bank must disclose there numbers 
of CRA mortgages, so it is not hard to see what percentage of the overall 
market they are. Further, banks also publish what percentage of bad mortgages 
they have on the books. The numbers are there and CRA is a fraction. Look it up.

Remember, we are talking about subprime mortgages. in 2006, of the top 25 
subprime lenders only 1 was subject to CRA. In fact, Fannie and Freddie went 
from a high of 48 percentage of subprime loans in 2004 to 24 percent in 2006 
because of the enormous private market for subprime.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with you
> on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created by Fannie
> and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are certainly other
> factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree with you that there
> were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their titles that bellied up to the
> trough. 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role
> inregulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:
> 
>> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
>> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
> qualified.
>> 
> No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a fraction
> of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad mortgages would
> have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. Further, it is
> reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were made even more non-CRA
> mortgages would have been made given the additional available capital.
> 
> There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing is a
> waste of time.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[RickG]

I couldnt say it any better Scottie! My Grandparenets were part of "the
greatest generation". We need that back. The political side of it is that
our government is not promoting such behavior but rather the opposite.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Scottie Arnett  wrote:

> When I look at these things I think about they way my grandparents did
> things. That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in
> place.
>
> The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if
> they home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it.
> That is what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't
> pay your gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of you
> by Bruno. Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I pay in.
>
> You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't
> pay half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked 16
> or more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many people
> will not LOWER their job standards and standards of living when they can
> find an easy way out. They are many jobs out there being done by illegal
> immigrants that are low paying for the simple reason that many Americans
> will not do them because of the pay. If that is what it takes to pay the
> bills, they should be doing them.
>
> Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were losing
> a home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the
> other from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told
> them you were losing your home because you lost your job and will not take
> one paying a $1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My dad
> quit school to help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather cut
> some fingers off. It was what had to be done to keep paying the bills. He
> has done well for himself without the high school education.
>
> I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs
> more than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this
> country 50 to 60 years ago.
>
> Scottie
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600
>
> >Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> >Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
> >To: 'WISPA General List'
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> regulationof
> >net-neutrality
> >
> >That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
> >lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
> >market for the paper.
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >
> >Jeff Broadwick
> >ImageStream
> >800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> >+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> >Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> regulationof
> >net-neutrality
> >
> >Brad,
> >
> >>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been
> >> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big
> >> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
> >
> >You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
> >
> >Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
> >class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
> >continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will
> say
> >that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
> >losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
> >choices.
> >What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
> >foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
> >before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
> >instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a
> loan
> >taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for
> doing
> >nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people
> do
> >holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
> >
> >And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
> >opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations
> to
> >make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't exist.
> >
> >Some People loose homes because a home is a 30 year commitment, and
> its
> >hard for anyone to predict how one's life will pan out every year for 30
> >years. All it takes is one 

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Chuck Bartosch]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 make campaigns post their contributions on the
> internet. 

That's already available if the donation is over $99.

Chuck







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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

I think that's one thing most of us could agree on seeing as how wisp
operators should enjoy heights.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Zip lines sound fun!

On 2/5/10, Mike  wrote:
> Phoenix.  Dry and warm.
>
> *OR* I live 5 minutes up the hill from a world class casino and hotel
> complex. http://www.meskwaki.com/
>
> I could host, and you could take turns climbing my towers, and riding the
> zip lines here at Gilly Hollow.  One of them is a terror at 750 feet.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:18 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn’t about the
> show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
> A show in Vegas has become a cliché.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting
>
> If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place
-
> IMHO
>
> When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets
for
> prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
> Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place
I
> would like to take my family on vacation.
>
> Disney sounds better ;-)
>
> Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
> Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer...
>
>
>

> _
> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
> On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:
>
>> Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great
>> rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
>>> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up
my
>>> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
> conference.
>>> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
>>> enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
>>> available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
> visited
>>> probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
> even
>>> find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
>>> Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
>>> Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
> minivan
>>> on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the
car
>>> alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
>>> suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
> hour.
>>> Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
> on
>>> a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the
block
>>> parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
> to
>>> sleep.
>>>
>>> The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
>>>
>>> / Eje
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in
a
>>> room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
> No
>>> available rooms for 50 miles.
>>>
>>> I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
>>> abandon the thing!  LOL
>>>
>>> -B-
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: "Blake Bowers"
>>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
>>> To:; WISPA General
List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
>>> normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
>>>
>>> Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
> packed
>>>
>>> as
>>> it was 10 years ago too.
>>>
>>> 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
first
>>> place I stopped at, a Drury.
>>>
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an or

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Josh Luthman]

Ohio weather sucks.  Zipline would be fun!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.
>
> OSU grad, Stuart?
>
> I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German Village,
> Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.
>
> Oh food, wine and song as well.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500
>
> >I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
> >ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
> >than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
> >don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
> >it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides:
> >
> >1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
> >or small.
> >2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
> >in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
> >any vendor.
> >3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
> >home to make sure business continues.
> >4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
> >plus.
> >5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
> >an ISP to a tradeshow.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Chuck Hogg
> >Shelby Broadband
> >502-722-9292
> >ch...@shelbybb.com
> >http://www.shelbybb.com
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
> >
> >Hi Matt,
> >
> >I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow
> >emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
> >
> >Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
> >Commerce
> >president here's my latest project:
> >http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
> >
> >Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
> >the
> >cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
> >
> >We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the
> >weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
> >people.
> >http://www.stumpjumpers.org
> >
> >The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
> >chairman
> >and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the
> >
> >physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all
> >
> >over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
> >ranch.
> >
> >I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
> >or 3
> >people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the
> >
> >help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
> >we
> >need to find a different way.
> >
> >So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
> >we
> >do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
> >
> >Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
> >some
> >kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how
> >
> >many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
> >we
> >want?  Who should speak?
> >
> >Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show
> >or
> >one done by someone else.
> >
> >I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car
> >shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate
> >settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I
> >
> >don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of
> >that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and
> >spend time with my peers.
> >
> >My fear with Ed's group is that they will try to put on a fancy schmancy
> >
> >show in which the vendors will have to pay so much for floor space that
> >they'll demand access to the podiums and we'll end up with a "teaching"
> >track that's always slanted in the direction of products rather than the
> >
> >overall nature of our business.
> >
> >Having said all of that.  My plate is already as full as I want it.
> >I'll
> >no

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

Me thinks Stuart likes Columbus.

OSU grad, Stuart?

I like the town too.  A lot less than a cow town as it used to be.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Have I mentioned Columbus Ohio ? Downtown has everything, German Village,
Italian Village, Victorian Village and Campus.

Oh food, wine and song as well.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck Hogg" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:10:24 -0500

>I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
>ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
>than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
>don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
>it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides: 
>
>1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
>or small.
>2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
>in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
>any vendor.
>3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
>home to make sure business continues.
>4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
>plus.
>5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
>an ISP to a tradeshow.
>
>Regards,
>Chuck Hogg
>Shelby Broadband
>502-722-9292
>ch...@shelbybb.com
>http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>Hi Matt,
>
>I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow 
>emails reply to that list not the public one :-).
>
>Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
>Commerce 
>president here's my latest project:
>http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek
>
>Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
>the 
>cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.
>
>We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the 
>weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
>people.
>http://www.stumpjumpers.org
>
>The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
>chairman 
>and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the
>
>physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all
>
>over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
>ranch.
>
>I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
>or 3 
>people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the
>
>help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
>we 
>need to find a different way.
>
>So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
>we 
>do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.
>
>Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
>some 
>kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how
>
>many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
>we 
>want?  Who should speak?
>
>Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show
>or 
>one done by someone else.
>
>I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car 
>shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate 
>settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I
>
>don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of 
>that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and 
>spend time with my peers.
>
>My fear with Ed's group is that they will try to put on a fancy schmancy
>
>show in which the vendors will have to pay so much for floor space that 
>they'll demand access to the podiums and we'll end up with a "teaching" 
>track that's always slanted in the direction of products rather than the
>
>overall nature of our business.
>
>Having said all of that.  My plate is already as full as I want it.
>I'll 
>not be putting  my time where my mouth is.  grin  I'm here to help with 
>thoughts and opinions via email but I'll help out as I can which ever
>way 
>the rest of the committee wishes to see the show move.
>
>Thanks for taking the lead on this!
>marlon
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" 
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>
>> All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your
>assumptions.
>>
>> I have spen

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

25 bucks an hour?  Man, I need to rethink things.  I don't think I'm
charging enough.

Fred Garvin-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Columbus Ohio, yes. 25$ an hour, heck I got one for three for only $99 to
your door. Course I imagine that is only to the door.

-- Original Message --
From: Glenn Kelley 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:39:09 -0500

>I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 
>
>If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
IMHO 
>
>When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets
for prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
>Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place
I would like to take my family on vacation. 
>
>Disney sounds better ;-)
>
>Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 
>
>
>___
__
>Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
>  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:
>
>> Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
>> rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
>>> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up
my
>>> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
conference.
>>> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
>>> enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
>>> available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
visited
>>> probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
even
>>> find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
>>> Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
>>> Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
minivan
>>> on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the
car
>>> alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
>>> suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
hour.
>>> Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
on
>>> a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the
block
>>> parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
to
>>> sleep.
>>> 
>>> The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
>>> 
>>> / Eje
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>> 
>>> 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in
a
>>> room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
No
>>> available rooms for 50 miles.
>>> 
>>> I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
>>> abandon the thing!  LOL
>>> 
>>> -B-
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: "Blake Bowers"
>>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
>>> To:; WISPA General
List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>> 
>>> I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
>>> normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
>>> 
>>> Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
packed
>>> 
>>> as
>>> it was 10 years ago too.
>>> 
>>> 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
first
>>> place I stopped at, a Drury.
>>> 
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brian Webster"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging
in
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot
of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
 higher
 airfare.
 
 
 
 Thank You,
 Brian Web

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Mike]

Grainbelt from Minnesota, marked "STRONG" on the top. Commonly referred to
in the Midwest as "liquid cornflakes."



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:00 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

H...  Mikes beer or Josh's beer...

Depends on the beer, Mike.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Phoenix.  Dry and warm.  

*OR* I live 5 minutes up the hill from a world class casino and hotel
complex. http://www.meskwaki.com/

I could host, and you could take turns climbing my towers, and riding the
zip lines here at Gilly Hollow.  One of them is a terror at 750 feet.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:18 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn’t about the
show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
A show in Vegas has become a cliché.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 

If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
IMHO 

When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for
prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I
would like to take my family on vacation. 

Disney sounds better ;-)

Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 



_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:

> Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
> rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
>> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
>> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
conference.
>> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
>> enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
>> available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
visited
>> probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
even
>> find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
>> Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
>> Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
minivan
>> on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
>> alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
>> suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
hour.
>> Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
on
>> a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
>> parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
to
>> sleep.
>> 
>> The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
>> 
>> / Eje
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
>> room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
No
>> available rooms for 50 miles.
>> 
>> I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
>> abandon the thing!  LOL
>> 
>> -B-
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Blake Bowers"
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
>> To:; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
>> normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
>> 
>> Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
packed
>> 
>> as
>> it was 10 years ago too.
>> 
>> 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role inregulationofnet-neutrality

[Jeff Broadwick]

I'm really not interested in getting into a big hairy argument with you
on-list Matt.  The CRA DID have an effect, and the market created by Fannie
and Freddie allowed the whole thing to happen.  There are certainly other
factors, but those are the two biggest.  I will agree with you that there
were plenty of stupid people with Cs in their titles that bellied up to the
trough. 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role
inregulationofnet-neutrality


On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:

> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules 
> on lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally
qualified.
> 
No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a fraction
of the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad mortgages would
have still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. Further, it is
reasonable to assume that if no CRA mortgages were made even more non-CRA
mortgages would have been made given the additional available capital.

There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing is a
waste of time.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

1. And God said "Go and multiply".
2. Did I miss something? Nobody has said that where I can see.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  Just keep saying to yourself.
>
> 1. Overpopulation is good.
>
> 2  Political corruption does not exist.
>
> Good luck and best wishes. ;-)
>
> jack
>
>
> RickG wrote:
>
> Jack, make that two trolls :)
>
> With all due respect, isnt that exactly how liberals respond to conservative
> claims - by demonizing them? Marks comments were spot on and I couldnt have
> said them any better, so I'm resending them with my name on the end. I
> respect your right to your viewpoint but I hope you have data to support the
> claims. I know the the data is there for the more conservative claims. So,
> just in case you hit delete:
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
> except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
> department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
> pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
> the tags on your mattress.
>
> It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
> possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
> nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
> dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
> of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
> everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
> that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
> intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
> is simply not forgivable in the common realm.
>
> Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
> 90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
> without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
> it were so.
>
> Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
> of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
> ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
> expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
> you?
>
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Jack Unger  
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   Sorry Mark,
>
> I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and responsible
> posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER elicit the same
> response from me.
>
> I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the
> troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll.
>
>
>
> MDK wrote:
>
> Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of
> stuff.
>
> Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
> rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
> except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
> department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
> pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
> the tags on your mattress.
>
> It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
> possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
> nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
> dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
> of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
> everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
> that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
> intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
> is simply not forgivable in the common realm.
>
> Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
> 90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
> without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
> it were so.
>
> Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
> of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
> ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
> expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
> you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> From: "Jack Unger"   
>  
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:48 PM
> To: "WISPA General List"   
>  
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
> ofnet-neutrality> Brad,
>
>
>  There is really only one way to get a smaller government without
> throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller
> country, in o

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[RickG]

Jack, The only companies that "can do whatever they want to you whenever
they want to do it" are the ones given a monopoly and power by guess who -
big government! So, where is the problem? Is it the companies or the
government?

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
> companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
> do it.
>
> BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh
>
>
> Frank Crawford wrote:
>
> YES
>
> Jack Unger wrote:
>
>
>  I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
> support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
> it in a bathtub?
>
> Glenn Kelley wrote:
>
>
>
>  Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
> telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
> oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave 
> to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan 
> for Amercia)
> “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
> Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
> this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another 
> type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and 
> application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the 
> government be able to keep up?”
>
>
> Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -->
> _
> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
> Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 
> 1993www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's rolein regulationof net-neutrality

[Scottie Arnett]

When I look at these things I think about they way my grandparents did things. 
That was when there was still some moral and ethical standards in place.

The people losing their homes put themselves in that position. So what if they 
home is devalued %50 now. You signed and made the deal, live with it. That is 
what our grandparents did. It's no different than gambling. Don't pay your 
gambling debts and see what happens when you get it beat out of you by Bruno. 
Do not go around asking handouts from me and the taxes I pay in.

You say you lost your job? Find another one. Then you say, but it doesn't pay 
half of what my former job did. Then get two! Our grandparents worked 16 or 
more hours a day if that is what it took to pay the bills. Many people will not 
LOWER their job standards and standards of living when they can find an easy 
way out. They are many jobs out there being done by illegal immigrants that are 
low paying for the simple reason that many Americans will not do them because 
of the pay. If that is what it takes to pay the bills, they should be doing 
them.

Our grandparents would help out people in their community that were losing a 
home if a family had an unfortunate accident that prevented one or the other 
from working, or took the life of one of the providers. If you told them you 
were losing your home because you lost your job and will not take one paying a 
$1(a lot back then) less, then they would laugh at you. My dad quit school to 
help in the saw mill in 8th grade after my grandfather cut some fingers off. It 
was what had to be done to keep paying the bills. He has done well for himself 
without the high school education.

I am not going to go into the political side, but what this country needs more 
than anything IMHO is the moral and ethical standards that were in this country 
50 to 60 years ago.

Scottie 


-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:10:05 -0600

>Thank you Jeff.  You beat me to it!
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:05 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>net-neutrality
>
>That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required
>lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created the
>market for the paper. 
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>Jeff Broadwick
>ImageStream
>800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationof
>net-neutrality
>
>Brad,
>
>>  People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been 
>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big 
>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>
>You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>
>Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle
>class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth
>continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will say
>that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their
>losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical
>choices.
>What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to
>foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home,
>before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings
>instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a loan
>taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for doing
>nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people do
>holding on to their home as an investment to resale.
>
>And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the
>opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations to
>make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't exist.
>
>Some People loose homes because a home is a 30 year commitment, and its
>hard for anyone to predict how one's life will pan out every year for 30
>years. All it takes is one bad year, and there goes the house. People loose
>houses because they loose jobs.  People loose houses because most personal
>debt is secured by their house, and loosing the house is the easiest way to
>get rid of the other debt. People lose houses because they cant live within
>their mean in other areas of their life. Or because they set their sights to
>high. But the biggest reason people default, is because they develop a sense
>of satisfaction or entitlement in sc

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationofnet-neutrality

[Matt Liotta]

On Feb 5, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Brad Belton wrote:

> The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules on
> lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally qualified.
> 
No, it in fact does not hold true. Since CRA mortgages were only a fraction of 
the bad mortgages it is logical to conclude the other bad mortgages would have 
still been made if there were no CRA mortgages. Further, it is reasonable to 
assume that if no CRA mortgages were made even more non-CRA mortgages would 
have been made given the additional available capital.

There is plenty of blame to go around; trying to pin it on one thing is a waste 
of time.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

[Eje Gustafsson]

Yeah I got a kick out of that article and to see the discussion re FCC and
net-neutrality and FCC probes in anticompetive behavior and application
prohibitations for the Iphone et all. Then to find out that this "rebellion"
was planned but FCC worked to stopped it. 

Stay safe. Don't get out of bed. It's dangerous to drive, dangerous to walk
on the streets, dangerous to operate your electronics and irresponsible to
talk on the cellphone someone that might need to make an important phone
call to might not be able to.. So just stay in bed, don't touch that
cellphone, landline phone OR your laptop... Ohh there might be dangerous
lights emitting from your TV so do not turn it on either. 

Now where did I put my foil hat. Darn weather radars and satellite signals
are getting to me today Might need more foil

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:55 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

I love it that they had the FCC step in to stop the consumer protest and
declare...

to "purposely try to disrupt or negatively impact a network with ill-intent
is irresponsible and presents a significant public safety concern."

Such BS.  Isn't any large protest a potential safety concern?  

I'm now off to cover myself in bubble wrap.  One can't be too safe, ya know.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:00 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

LOL makes me recall article I read earlier tonight. 
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/at-t-s-iphone-deal-swamps-networ
k-sparking-consumer-rebellion.html

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:37 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

And me and my pack of highly trained Wispa Ninja warriors will be waiting
for them to thwart their plans of conquest!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


Frank Crawford wrote: 

YES
 
Jack Unger wrote:
  

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?
 
Glenn Kelley wrote:
  


Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
plan for Amercia)
"Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application?" . "With
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
government be able to keep up?"
 
 
Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com --> 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 


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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  

  

  


 
 


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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  





-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Net

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulationofnet-neutrality

[Brad Belton]

The underlying point still holds true; big government imposing rules on
lenders forcing them to lend to those that wouldn't have normally qualified.

The cash for clunkers will probably have the same results.  People getting a
new car payment they probably wouldn't have qualified for without big
government intervention.  We have a customer that specializes in asset
recovery...they gave an enthusiastic hip-hip-hurray for cash for clunkers
because they know they'll be picking up a good portion of those cars in the
coming years.

Best,


Brad

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
regulationofnet-neutrality

That is factual incorrect. Only minor changes were made to CRA under
Clinton. It was the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and
Soundness Act also under Clinton that required Fannie and Freddie to
securitize a certain percentage of CRA mortgages.

Again, only a fraction of the bad mortgages that caused the housing crisis
were subject to CRA.

-Matt

On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> CRA was started under Carter and greatly expanded under Clinton.  This is
a
> far more detailed conversation then we can have here, but the fact is that
> if the government (Fan and Fred) hadn't created the market for the paper,
> this could not have happened. 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:36 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
> regulationofnet-neutrality
> 
> The Community Reinvestment Act was first passed in 1977. It was later
> changed under Bush in 1989 because of the S & L crisis. I mention this
only
> to provide some context as to how long it has been with us and the variety
> of administrations that have affected it. It was really the Federal
Housing
> Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 that put us in the
> current situation with Fannie and Freddie securitizing CRA loans. That in
> and of itself didn't get us here. It was really the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act
> that started us down the wrong road. This ultimately allowed companies
like
> Goldman to create CDOs, sell them, and buy insurance against their failure
> all without having any interest in the underlying securities.
> 
> Sorry for the history lesson, but I thought the background was useful.
> Understand that by 2004 only 30% of mortgages were done under CRA and in
> 2005 regulatory changes allowed certain banks to do less CRA mortgage
> lending. Thus, it just isn't credible to suggest that the CRA caused the
> housing crisis.
> 
> Was the housing crisis created by people getting mortgages they couldn't
> afford? Yes, but that wasn't limited to CRA mortgages. Both parties helped
> get more people into houses they couldn't afford for their own reasons.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> 
>> That's just not accurate Tom.  The Community Reinvestment Act required 
>> lenders to do a lot of this stuff and then Fannie and Freddie created 
>> the market for the paper.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> ImageStream
>> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
>> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:19 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in 
>> regulationof net-neutrality
>> 
>> Brad,
>> 
>>> People are losing their homes.many of which never should have been 
>>> afforded the privilege of home ownership if it were not for big 
>>> government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.
>> 
>> You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.
>> 
>> Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the 
>> middle class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it 
>> worth continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  
>> I will say that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor 
>> cant offload their losing investment (House) to someone else, they 
>> resort to less ethical choices.
>> What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go 
>> to foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in 
>> their home, before they are forced out. If they put their rent check 
>> in hidden savings instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with 
>> gettting out of a loan taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a 
>> net $100k earning, for doin

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Robert West]

H...  Mikes beer or Josh's beer...

Depends on the beer, Mike.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:29 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Phoenix.  Dry and warm.  

*OR* I live 5 minutes up the hill from a world class casino and hotel
complex. http://www.meskwaki.com/

I could host, and you could take turns climbing my towers, and riding the
zip lines here at Gilly Hollow.  One of them is a terror at 750 feet.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:18 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn’t about the
show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
A show in Vegas has become a cliché.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 

If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
IMHO 

When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for
prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I
would like to take my family on vacation. 

Disney sounds better ;-)

Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 



_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:

> Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
> rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
>> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
>> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
conference.
>> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
>> enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
>> available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
visited
>> probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
even
>> find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
>> Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
>> Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
minivan
>> on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
>> alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
>> suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
hour.
>> Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
on
>> a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
>> parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
to
>> sleep.
>> 
>> The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
>> 
>> / Eje
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
>> room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
No
>> available rooms for 50 miles.
>> 
>> I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
>> abandon the thing!  LOL
>> 
>> -B-
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Blake Bowers"
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
>> To:; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>> 
>> I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
>> normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
>> 
>> Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
packed
>> 
>> as
>> it was 10 years ago too.
>> 
>> 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
>> place I stopped at, a Drury.
>> 
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Webster"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decisi

Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth

[Ray & Jean]

Marco
We are looking for 50 meg pipe in Pulaski  Tn.16724 west college st.
Ray
- Original Message - 
From: "Marco Coelho" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth


> Can you give an exact address and quantity of bandwidth you're looking 
> for?
>
> Marco
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Ray & Jean  wrote:
>> Anyone know of a cheap provider of bandwidth in southern middle 
>> Tennessee?
>> Thanks Ray & Jean
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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