Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-10-06 Thread Butch Evans
On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 09:39 -0400, Ron Calhoun wrote: 
> What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this?

Do to what?  I'm not sure I understand the question.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-10-06 Thread Mike Hammett
Mikrotik, it appears.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Ron Calhoun" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:39 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Throttle

> What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this?
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
> ~Ron Calhoun
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:51 AM,   wrote:
>>
>> Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower 
>> routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are 
>> RB600 or PC based Mikrotik.
>>
>>> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth 
>>> limiting
>>> on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our 
>>> billing
>>> system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login 
>>> to the
>>> ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth 
>>> throttle.
>>
>> What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to
>> those questions.
>>
>>> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?
>>
>> There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the
>> configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but
>> with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all.
>>
>> --
>> 
>> * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation*
>> * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering *
>> * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member *
>> * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks *
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>
>> --
>> John Buwa
>> Michiana Wireless
>> Phone: 574-233-7170
>>
>> http://www.michianawireless.com
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-10-06 Thread Ron Calhoun
What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this?




-- 


~Ron Calhoun





On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:51 AM,   wrote:
>
> Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower 
> routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are 
> RB600 or PC based Mikrotik.
>
>> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting
>> on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing
>> system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to 
>> the
>> ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.
>
> What kind of router and cpe?  Much of this will depend on the answers to
> those questions.
>
>> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?
>
> There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the
> configuration.  The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but
> with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all.
>
> --
> 
> * Butch Evans                   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/    * Network Engineering              *
> * http://www.wispa.org/         * WISPA Board Member               *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks       *
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> John Buwa
> Michiana Wireless
> Phone: 574-233-7170
>
> http://www.michianawireless.com
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-05 Thread sales

Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower 
routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are RB600 
or PC based Mikrotik.

> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting 
> on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing 
> system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to 
> the 
> ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

What kind of router and cpe?  Much of this will depend on the answers to
those questions.

> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the
configuration.  The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but
with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *





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-- 
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless
Phone: 574-233-7170 

http://www.michianawireless.com



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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Butch Evans
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 01:51 -0400, sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:
> Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?

This depends on several things. If your cpe can handle it, I like to
limit uploads (at the very least) on the cpe.

> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting 
> on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing 
> system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to 
> the 
> ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

What kind of router and cpe?  Much of this will depend on the answers to
those questions.

> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the
configuration.  The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but
with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *





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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Jason Wallace




What we've done to date is throttle at the CPE; we have always chosen
cpe's with this capability.  It was super important because we started
in a very rural area with a satellite as our upstream...painful because
of FAP's and such.  

We've moved on.

The above method keeps the congestion lower over the wireless links,
but it isn't perfect.

Ideally, throttling is done at the data source only.  If you throttle
downloads at the CPE, when the customer requests data, ethernet
dictates that the flow starts fast and then backs off as packets are
dropped, which is exactly what the cpe does to throttle the flow. This
wastes your network and upstream bandwidth.

So, throttle downloads at your NOC as soon as possible in your
network's flow.  Throttle uploads at the CPE.  This is what I am about
to do on my network.  I have everything in place; just got to throw the
(linux based) switch.
The linux box has big queues and won't waste as much of my upstream
link this way.

Also, if you cache or have a local email server, as we do, that stuff
can go out to customers at a much higher rate.  Their perceived speed's
better when the google logo loads instantly ;-)

My 2 cents,
Jason

RickG wrote:

  I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load
unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davis wrote:
  
  
I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting.

My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients...



os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by
queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing
the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing
a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the
Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting.

How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router?

Greg
On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote:



For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it.

I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router.

This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my
wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls

I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe.

This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP.

In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network.

YMMV

sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:


Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the
router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do
bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But
we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change
packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and
automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless



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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread RickG
I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load
unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davis wrote:
> I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting.
>
> My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients...
>
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by
> queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing
> the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing
> a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the
> Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting.
>
> How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router?
>
> Greg
> On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote:
>
>
>
> For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it.
>
> I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router.
>
> This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my
> wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls
>
> I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe.
>
> This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP.
>
> In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network.
>
> YMMV
>
> sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:
>
>
> Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the
> router?
>
> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do
> bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But
> we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change
> packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and
> automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.
>
> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?
>
> Thanks,
> John Buwa
> Michiana Wireless
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Blair Davis




I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. 

My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients...



os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

  I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by  
queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing  
the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing  
a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the  
Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting.

How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router?

Greg
On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote:

  
  
For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it.

I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router.

This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my  
wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls

I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe.

This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP.

In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network.

YMMV

sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:


  Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the  
router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do  
bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But  
we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change  
packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and  
automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless



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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
That should always be done at the CPE.  Otherwise your over the air traffic 
stays high as devices keep trying to shove traffic through too small 
"ports".
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:51 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Throttle


> Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?
>
> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth 
> limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup 
> our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have 
> it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the 
> bandwidth throttle.
>
> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?
>
> Thanks,
> John Buwa
> Michiana Wireless
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread os10rules
I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by  
queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing  
the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing  
a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the  
Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting.

How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router?

Greg
On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote:

> For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it.
>
> I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router.
>
> This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my  
> wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls
>
> I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe.
>
> This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP.
>
> In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network.
>
> YMMV
>
> sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:
>>
>> Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the  
>> router?
>>
>> Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do  
>> bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But  
>> we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change  
>> packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and  
>> automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.
>>
>> But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John Buwa
>> Michiana Wireless
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Jason Hensley
We throttle at the CPE where we have the ability.  Our reasoning is that the
less traffic there is hitting the AP, the more users we can put on it, and
the better experience everyone has. 


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of sa...@michianawireless.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Throttle

Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth
limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our
billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it
login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the
bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless




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Re: [WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-04 Thread Blair Davis




For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it.

I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router.

This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my
wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls

I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe.

This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP.

In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network.

YMMV

sa...@michianawireless.com wrote:

  Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless



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[WISPA] Throttle

2009-08-03 Thread sales
Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting 
on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing 
system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the 
ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/