RE: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[Webb, KerryA]

I find that Russ's list and that of Laura Carlson usually provide
something useful each week.

thanks

Kerry 
  
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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[lisa . kerrigan]

 me too! fabulous stuff

Lisa Kerrigan | Manager Content & User Experience
www.business.vic.gov.au; www.diird.vic.gov.au
' +61 3 9651 9176 8 lisa.kerri...@diird.vic.gov.au
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Level 31, 121 Exhibition Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3000.


   
 "Chris F.A.   
 Johnson"  
  wsg@webstandardsgroup.org   
 Sent by:   cc 
 li...@webstandard 
 sgroup.orgSubject 
   Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light 
   Reading' posts  
 23/09/2009 03:15  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
 w...@webstandardsg 
 roup.org  
   
   




On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, nedlud wrote:

> I second that.

   On the other hand, after looking at a few of the links the first
   few times I received those messages, I now delete them unseen.

> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown
wrote:
>
> >  Hi there
> >
> > I?d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the
time
> > to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find
really
> > interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from
it.
> >
> > So, thanks Russ ? it?s really appreciated!

--
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster 
   ===
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[matt andrews]

Absoutely, I'll echo that.  There are some real gems in there.  Thanks, Russ.

2009/9/23 Susie Gardner-Brown :
> Hi there
>
> I’d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time to
> collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really
> interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it.
>
> So, thanks Russ – it’s really appreciated!
>
> Cheers
> susie
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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, nedlud wrote:

> I second that.

   On the other hand, after looking at a few of the links the first
   few times I received those messages, I now delete them unseen.

> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote:
> 
> >  Hi there
> >
> > I?d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time
> > to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really
> > interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it.
> >
> > So, thanks Russ ? it?s really appreciated!

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster 
   ===
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[Jeremy Cabral]

Here here! Thanks Russ

Jeremy Cabral

mobile: 0410 319 212

 // skype: jeremycabral


On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote:

>  Hi there
>
> I’d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time
> to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really
> interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it.
>
> So, thanks Russ – it’s really appreciated!
>
> Cheers
> susie
>
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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[nedlud]

I second that.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote:

>  Hi there
>
> I’d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time
> to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really
> interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it.
>
> So, thanks Russ – it’s really appreciated!
>
> Cheers
> susie
>
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-- 

Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia


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[WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[Susie Gardner-Brown]

Hi there

I¹d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time to
collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really
interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it.

So, thanks Russ ­ it¹s really appreciated!

Cheers
susie


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[WSG] my site

[Marvin Hunkin]

hi.
well.
did this for a course a couple of years ago.
and got legal use to use all the images.
so want to put this up on a site.
as a port folio of my student web projects.
got a number of projects.
which trying to find the owners of images and get their permission.
like a world war ii veterans club site, a soccer club site, mens wear store 
site, a child's flea circus. so will go and take your suggestions for the 
fruit shop site.
and put lists.
for the links.
then will get rid of the second nav menu.
and the images.
it was just for sighted users.
so will go and look at those tutorials.
how to design and redesign the site with the css, and the java script.
thanks for your help.
then a more slicker, more accessible site.
and will use the vision australia colour tool.
to try to get the best solution for sighted and blind users.
cheers Marvin.
ps: not so stubborn after all.
and did pass this subject and the course.
so updating the projects. to get around legal copyright issues.
Marvin. 




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[WSG] a table layout issue

[tee]

 It never occurs to me I cannot do something like this.

I need each tr with borders and a margin-top to separate each tr, then  
a 5 pixel padding inside the tr so that the td's border doesn't touch  
the tr, but I can't get it working.


http://lotusfromthemud.com/table/tr.html

The image below the table is the exact layout I needed.

Is this possible?

tee


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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Erickson, Kevin (DOE)]

This sounds like excellent advice. I am going to rethink my naming
convention as well as the way this list needs to be broken up. 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
Kevin 

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Paul Novitski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:51 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

At 9/22/2009 08:43 AM, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
>
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
>


I find this solution problematic. Scrutinizing the markup, I would put a
subhead at the beginning of the content it heads, not at the tail of
whatever content precedes it.

Semantically, if items d & e deserve their own subhead, to what extent
are they really part of the same list as a, b, & c? They might be on the
same nesting level, but are they really part of the same list? It would
be interesting to see some of the actual content of this list to see why
the original poster felt that all five items belong in one list.

I guess the bottom line here is that today's HTML doesn't permit us to
insert a headline into the middle of a list but gives us this solution:

ol
li
   ol
  li a /li
  li b /li
  li c /li
   /ol
   h3 subhead /h3
   ol
  li d /li
  li e /li
   /ol
/li
/ol

> 
>   Subheading
> 

Aside, is the div really necessary? Could not any necessary styling be
applied to the h3 itself? If complicated markup is deemed necessary, for
example because of multiple background images < CSS3, I myself would
rather nest structures inside the headline rather than hang them outside
of it so as to reach for a greater semantic clarity.

Also, I suggest you use class names that evoke the purpose of a
structure and not its presentation. If your class names are going to be
as explicit as "margin_left_minus_40px" then you're no better off than
injecting style rules inline. Either way, if you change the graphic
design you'll be changing your markup. In this particular example you
likely don't need class names at all because you can specify the divs
and h3s unambiguously from their position in the markup, e.g.

 ol.listName li h3

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 



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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Paul Novitski]

At 9/22/2009 08:43 AM, Kepler Gelotte wrote:


  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First




I find this solution problematic. Scrutinizing the markup, I would 
put a subhead at the beginning of the content it heads, not at the 
tail of whatever content precedes it.


Semantically, if items d & e deserve their own subhead, to what 
extent are they really part of the same list as a, b, & c? They might 
be on the same nesting level, but are they really part of the same 
list? It would be interesting to see some of the actual content of 
this list to see why the original poster felt that all five items 
belong in one list.


I guess the bottom line here is that today's HTML doesn't permit us 
to insert a headline into the middle of a list but gives us this solution:


ol
   li
  ol
 li a /li
 li b /li
 li c /li
  /ol
  h3 subhead /h3
  ol
 li d /li
 li e /li
  /ol
   /li
/ol



  Subheading



Aside, is the div really necessary? Could not any necessary styling 
be applied to the h3 itself? If complicated markup is deemed 
necessary, for example because of multiple background images < CSS3, 
I myself would rather nest structures inside the headline rather than 
hang them outside of it so as to reach for a greater semantic clarity.


Also, I suggest you use class names that evoke the purpose of a 
structure and not its presentation. If your class names are going to 
be as explicit as "margin_left_minus_40px" then you're no better off 
than injecting style rules inline. Either way, if you change the 
graphic design you'll be changing your markup. In this particular 
example you likely don't need class names at all because you can 
specify the divs and h3s unambiguously from their position in the markup, e.g.


ol.listName li h3

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Erickson, Kevin (DOE)]

Thanks Stuart.
Exactly what I was looking for!! But will this work for an ordered list
with capital letter styling? And is it kosher for web standards?

BTW- I changed my list to use CSS for the deprecated "type" attribute. 
Now using: 
.list_style_upper_alpha { /*For ordered lists that need ABC...*/
  list-style-type:upper-alpha;
}

Cheers

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:08 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice


Perhaps you could use separate lists for each sub-heading then use the
appropriate start value for each list.

Using something similar to:

http://www.arraystudio.com/as-workshop/make-ol-list-start-from-number-di
fferent-than-1-using-css.html

(maybe an unordered list(definition list?) of subheadings with nested
ordered lists)

Just an idea.

On Tue, September 22, 2009 3:40 pm, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:
> Hi,
> I have an ordered list that needs the items to be alphabetized and 
> have lines in between the items that will be subheadings within the 
> list BUT also need to NOT take a letter. Is there a best practice on 
> trying to accomplish the desired look? (examples below)
>
> Here is the code with no validation issues but the two lines with 
> "Subheading" will get a letter (not desired):
>   
>   First
>   
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
>   
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
> 
>
> In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but 
> does not validate,(The tag:"div" is not allowed within: "ol"):
>
>   
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   First
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   First
>   First
> 
>
> I appreciate any advice,
> Kevin
>
>
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>




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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Erickson, Kevin (DOE)]

Good call. I did this and it works visually and validates. 
How will this work for screen readers? Anyone??? 

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Kepler Gelotte
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:44 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

> In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but 
> does not validate,(The tag:"div" is not allowed within: "ol"):

How about:


  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First


Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904




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Re: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Stuart Foulstone]

Perhaps you could use separate lists for each sub-heading then use the
appropriate start value for each list.

Using something similar to:

http://www.arraystudio.com/as-workshop/make-ol-list-start-from-number-different-than-1-using-css.html

(maybe an unordered list(definition list?) of subheadings with nested
ordered lists)

Just an idea.

On Tue, September 22, 2009 3:40 pm, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:
> Hi,
> I have an ordered list that needs the items to be alphabetized and have
> lines in between the items that will be subheadings within the list BUT
> also need to NOT take a letter. Is there a best practice on trying to
> accomplish the desired look? (examples below)
>
> Here is the code with no validation issues but the two lines with
> "Subheading" will get a letter (not desired):
>   
>   First
>   
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
>   
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   
>   First
>   First
> 
>
> In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but does
> not validate,(The tag:"div" is not allowed within: "ol"):
>
>   
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   First
>   First
> 
>   Subheading
> 
>   First
>   First
> 
>
> I appreciate any advice,
> Kevin
>
>
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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Kepler Gelotte]

> In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but does
> not validate,(The tag:"div" is not allowed within: "ol"):

How about:


  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First

  Subheading

  
  First
  First


Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904




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[WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

[Erickson, Kevin (DOE)]

Hi,
I have an ordered list that needs the items to be alphabetized and have
lines in between the items that will be subheadings within the list BUT
also need to NOT take a letter. Is there a best practice on trying to
accomplish the desired look? (examples below)

Here is the code with no validation issues but the two lines with
"Subheading" will get a letter (not desired):

  First
  

  Subheading

  
  First
  First
  

  Subheading

  
  First
  First


In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but does
not validate,(The tag:"div" is not allowed within: "ol"):


  First

  Subheading

  First
  First

  Subheading

  First
  First


I appreciate any advice,
Kevin


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Re: [WSG] my site and mouse rollovers

[Lesley Lutomski]

Hi Marvin,

To follow on from what Dave Hurley said about colours, I find the green 
Link text hard to read on the green background.  No matter how great 
your site is, if your users can't read it, it's not doing its job. 
Visionaustralia have a really useful tool on their Web site here:

http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/info.aspx?page=628
It will help you check colour combinations for visibility.

All the best with your course.

Lesley

Marvin Hunkin wrote:

hi.
well not going to change the site a whole great deal.
proud of this site i created for my course.
and only changing the mouse rollovers.
so if it looks great.
let me know.
it is at:
http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
cheers Marvin.
ps: might be a few hours before my friend uploads it.
as i cannot upload it and login into the ftp site.
i get a internet cannot open this page.
tried it in firefox and get the same problem. 





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Re: [WSG] my site and mouse rollovers

[Lesley Lutomski]

Hi Marvin,

To follow on from what Dave Hurley said about colours, I find the green 
Link text hard to read on the green background.  No matter how great 
your site is, if your users can't read it, it's not doing its job. 
Visionaustralia have a really useful tool on their Web site here:

http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/info.aspx?page=628
It will help you check colour combinations for visibility.

All the best with your course.

Lesley

Marvin Hunkin wrote:

hi.
well not going to change the site a whole great deal.
proud of this site i created for my course.
and only changing the mouse rollovers.
so if it looks great.
let me know.
it is at:
http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
cheers Marvin.
ps: might be a few hours before my friend uploads it.
as i cannot upload it and login into the ftp site.
i get a internet cannot open this page.
tried it in firefox and get the same problem. 





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Re: [WSG] my site and mouse rollovers

[Stuart Foulstone]

Hi Marvin,

I am interested in your angle on regarding the repeating alt attribute
values in your menu, e.g. alt="Closed Banana".

This would appear to be against basic WCAGC accessibility guidelines, and
also totally unnecessary verbiage for the listener.

What is your reasoning for doing this?


On Tue, September 22, 2009 8:27 am, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
> hi.
> well not going to change the site a whole great deal.
> proud of this site i created for my course.
> and only changing the mouse rollovers.
> so if it looks great.
> let me know.
> it is at:
> http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
> cheers Marvin.
> ps: might be a few hours before my friend uploads it.
> as i cannot upload it and login into the ftp site.
> i get a internet cannot open this page.
> tried it in firefox and get the same problem.
>
>
>
>
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[WSG] my site and mouse rollovers

[Marvin Hunkin]

hi.
well not going to change the site a whole great deal.
proud of this site i created for my course.
and only changing the mouse rollovers.
so if it looks great.
let me know.
it is at:
http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
cheers Marvin.
ps: might be a few hours before my friend uploads it.
as i cannot upload it and login into the ftp site.
i get a internet cannot open this page.
tried it in firefox and get the same problem. 




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