Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

Alvin I agree you 100% and could make other criticisms about our electoral/legislative processes, but it is probably off topic (though not any more so than the history of stuff). --- Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alvin you are too cynical and too off topic too. > > >

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

On Jan 10, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Recall the rigged California gas pumps of a few years ago. Observing that the state pump testers consistently bought certain quantities of gas the pumps were programmed to not cheat customers who bought those specific amounts. Due to this, it too

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

Alvin you are too cynical and too off topic too. * ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in <== * ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <== * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

>And, we've spent how many billions of dollars (supposedly) to bring democracy >to Iraq? Why can't the federal government spend just a tiny fraction of >that money to bring a single, standard voting system to our own country? Perhaps provided by Microsoft? I think it is a good thing that we us

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

>Why should we believe the election officials or the black box >manufacturers that the count is accurate? The officials can test >the machines before the election day for various scenarios. The >manufacturer can have various internal quality testing. Yet, it >only takes one not-so-honest program

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

We use words in our thoughts and propagandists like to give us the wrong words so that we will think the wrong thoughts. They repeatedly use the word "Democracy" to describe our form of government, and we all follow along and use "Democracy" also. The word "Democracy" makes us think that we

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

And, we've spent how many billions of dollars (supposedly) to bring democracy to Iraq? Why can't the federal government spend just a tiny fraction of that money to bring a single, standard voting system to our own country? Because the big entrenched special interest groups have worked for m

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

> ... they print a "zero tape at the beginning of the voting day and > then a "final tally" tape at the end. And the vote counts have to > match meters on the front of the machines ... This is the answer I got from my polling place in Montgomery county, MD in 2004. Sure, if the number of total vo

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection - found it!

>-- http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/pictures/datavote.jpg >-- http://americanhistory.si.edu/vote/resources_datavote.html This is the one. Worked real nice. * ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following comman

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection - have we found it?

I completely agree! (I was only pointing out that the "electronic" machines we have do work, even if they are pretty well kluged up.) The previous system was a very simple system using optical scanning of a simple marked paper ballot. It produced the original voter-marked ballot, a tape count,

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection - have we found it?

Mike ...Thanks for the informed details re: the computer voting machine that I was wondering about. I am a tech professional but I LOVE any type of system that does it's job extremely well with elegant simplicity, minimal overhead and low cost regardless of the tech involved. To me those qu

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection -- isn't electronic

db wrote: I read an article about those or similar machines. Partly because of the printer size issue and partly because of the cost, the printers they built in were small and cheap. That made them hard to load by the volunteer ... often senior citizen ... staff. Our machines use tape roll

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection - found it!

I think I found the "perfect" voting machine that a few of you have described using in the past. I found a punch card voting expert who emailed me some links (below) to the device. It's called DataVote and I think it's great in its inexpensive simplicity and surety. They could keep its retro lo

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

db wrote: I read an article about those or similar machines. Partly because of the printer size issue and partly because of the cost, the printers they built in were small and cheap. That made them hard to load by the volunteer ... often senior citizen ... staff. Our machines use tape rolls,

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

I wonder what the brand of puncher was ... does anyone know? In googling, I see reference mostly to the Votomatic that was problematically used in Florida. There is an older Coyle model shown in a photo in the following link: http://americanhistory.si.edu/vote/punchcard.html http://en.wiki

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

>It was a system that used an IBM card and a hand pressed punch, with >no electricity required. The card was inserted in the simple machine. >You could see the card at all times. You slid a pointer down until it >was next to your choice of candidate or issue. You then pressed down I used t

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

I think you have captured the essence of the problem accurately. It's all about the money... db Alvin Auerbach wrote: I like the system that we had in Montgomery County, Maryland, before we received the Diebold machines. It was a punch card system. No, not the notorious Florida system wher

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

I like the system that we had in Montgomery County, Maryland, before we received the Diebold machines. It was a punch card system. No, not the notorious Florida system where you use a pencil to poke out previously scored circles. It was a system that used an IBM card and a hand pressed pun

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

I read an article about those or similar machines. Partly because of the printer size issue and partly because of the cost, the printers they built in were small and cheap. That made them hard to load by the volunteer ... often senior citizen ... staff. At election time,24% of all stations w

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

Our county uses Sequoia machines that run on Windows 2000. They produce: a count on the hard drive, a CD-R, a count on a memory stick, and a paper ballot (that is stored in a sealed bin). The paper ballot can be viewed through a Plexi-glass window prior to the voter pressing the key for the sec

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

> > Can You Count on Voting Machines? > > I would like two things from the voting machines: 1) The process has to be transparent. That means no proprietary HW or software that can't be examined to see that they

Re: [CGUYS] Voting Perfection

Tom Piwowar > Great long article in the NY Times... > Can You Count on Voting Machines? I saw an article ... somewhere ... about a proposal to make vote verification much simpler. After voting, you would be given a copy of a randomly selected ballot that wasn't yours. The ballot would have a

[CGUYS] Voting Perfection

Great long article in the NY Times... Can You Count on Voting Machines? www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/magazine/06Vote-t.html?pagewanted=1&ref=magazine "Perfection isnt possible, of course; every voting system has flaws. So historically, the public and candidates for public office have grudgingl