Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi, On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 04:20:11PM -0400, Michael Meissner wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:17:50PM +0100, Stephen C. Tweedie wrote: > Presumably, a new UUID is created each time format a partition, which means it > is a slight bit of hassle if you have to reload a partition from a dump,

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Guest section DW writes: > On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 02:35:55AM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: >> The PC partition table has such an ID. The LILO change log >> mentions it. I think it's 6 random bytes, with some restriction >> about being non-zero. > > You are confused. The partition table contain

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At 2:16 AM +1200 2001-05-21, Chris Wedgwood wrote: >On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 10:36:14AM -0700, Jonathan Lundell wrote: > > I know from system documentation, or can figure out once and for > all by experimentation, the correspondence between PCI > bus/dev/fcn and physical locations. Jeff

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At 3:37 AM -0600 2001-05-20, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >Jonathan Lundell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> At 10:42 AM +0200 2001-05-19, Kai Henningsen wrote: >> > > Jeff Garzik's ethtool >> > > extension at least tells me the PCI bus/dev/fcn, though, and from >> >> that I can write a userlan

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Jonathan Lundell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > At 10:42 AM +0200 2001-05-19, Kai Henningsen wrote: > > > Jeff Garzik's ethtool > > > extension at least tells me the PCI bus/dev/fcn, though, and from > >> that I can write a userland mapping function to the physical > >> location. > > > >I don'

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:17:50PM +0100, Stephen C. Tweedie wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:18:15PM -0400, Michael Meissner wrote: > > > With the current LABEL= support, you won't be able to mount the disks with > > duplicate labels, but you can still mount them via /dev/sd. > > Or

Re: no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants]

On Saturday 19 May 2001 21:43, Pavel Machek wrote: > I think that plan9 uses something different -- they have ttyS0 and > ttyS0ctl. This would leave us with problem "how do I get handle to > ttyS0ctl when I only have handle to ttyS0"? One possibility is to add multiforked (multi-stream) file supp

Re: no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants]

Hi! > > Well, if we did something like modify(int fd, char *how), you could do > > > > modify(0, "nonblock,9600") > > What you're really proposing is to make ioctl's be ASCII strings. Yup. > Which is not necessarily a bad idea, and I think plan9 did something > similar (or rather, if I remem

Re: no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants]

Hi! > > > > > fd = open("/dev/tty00/nonblock,9600,n8", O_RDWR); > > > > > > > > Hmm, there might be problem with this. How do you change speed without > > > > reopening device? [Remember: your mice knows when you close device] > > The naming scheme is not a replacement for these kinds of i

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Chris Wedgwood wrote: > > Or you can fall back to mounting by UUID, which is globally > unique and still avoids referencing physical location. You also > don't need to manually set LABELs for UUID to work: all e2fsprogs > over the past couple of years have set UUID on partitions,

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At 10:42 AM +0200 2001-05-19, Kai Henningsen wrote: > > >Make your config script look at the hardware MAC addresses. Those don't >> >change. >> >> They're not necessarily unique, though. > >So if you plug both into the same network segment, that segment is broken? >That looks like very stupid

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At 10:42 AM +0200 2001-05-19, Kai Henningsen wrote: > > Jeff Garzik's ethtool > > extension at least tells me the PCI bus/dev/fcn, though, and from >> that I can write a userland mapping function to the physical >> location. > >I don't see how PCI bus/dev/fcn lets you do that. I know from sys

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi, On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 05:29:32PM +1200, Chris Wedgwood wrote: > > Or you can fall back to mounting by UUID, which is globally > unique and still avoids referencing physical location. You also > don't need to manually set LABELs for UUID to work: all e2fsprogs > over the pa

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi! > > > > But no, I don't actually like sockets all that much myself. They are hard > > > > to use from scripts, and many more people are familiar with open/close and > > > > read/write. > > > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > It would be nice to use open/close/read/write for control and bulk and > >

no ioctls for serial ports? [was Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants]

Hi! > > > They might also be exactly the same channel, except with certain magic > > > bits set. The example peter gave was fine: tty devices could very usefully > > > be opened with something like > > > > > > fd = open("/dev/tty00/nonblock,9600,n8", O_RDWR); > > > > > > where we actually ope

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Lundell) wrote on 17.05.01 in : > At 11:23 PM +0200 2001-05-17, Kai Henningsen wrote: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Lundell) wrote on 15.05.01 in > >: > > > >> What about: > >> > >> 1 (n

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johannes Erdfelt) wrote on 17.05.01 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, May 17, 2001, Kai Henningsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johannes Erdfelt) wrote on 15.05.01 in > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > I had always made the assumption that sockets were c

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > They might also be exactly the same channel, except with certain magic > > bits set. The example peter gave was fine: tty devices could very usefully > > be opened with something like > > > > fd = open("/dev/tty00/nonblock,9600,n8", O_RDWR); > > > > where we actually open up exactly the

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, 16 May 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > The same situation appears when using bonding.o. For several years, > > Don Becker's (and derived) network drivers support changing MAC address > > when the interface is down. So Al's /dev/eth//MAC has different > values > > depending on whether bon

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001, Pavel Machek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > But no, I don't actually like sockets all that much myself. They are hard > > > to use from scripts, and many more people are familiar with open/close and > > > read/write. > > > > Agreed. > > > > It would be nice to use open/cl

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi! Hi! > They might also be exactly the same channel, except with certain magic > bits set. The example peter gave was fine: tty devices could very usefully > be opened with something like > > fd = open("/dev/tty00/nonblock,9600,n8", O_RDWR); > > where we actually open up exactly the sam

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi! > > But no, I don't actually like sockets all that much myself. They are hard > > to use from scripts, and many more people are familiar with open/close and > > read/write. > > Agreed. > > It would be nice to use open/close/read/write for control and bulk and > sockets for interrupt and iso

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi, On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:18:15PM -0400, Michael Meissner wrote: > With the current LABEL= support, you won't be able to mount the disks with > duplicate labels, but you can still mount them via /dev/sd. Or you can fall back to mounting by UUID, which is globally unique and still avoids re

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 02:35:55AM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > Heinz J. Mauelshag writes: > > > LVM does a similar thing storing UUIDs in its private metadata > > area on every device used by it. > > > > Problem is: neither MD nor LVM define a standard in Linux > > which *needs* to be used

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > On Thursday 17 May 2001 22:00, Brian Wheeler wrote: > > Consider an ID consisting of: > > * vendor > > * model > > Vendor and model ids are available for PCI and USB devices, but I think you > can not assume that all busses have them and you dont gain anything if you > keep them se

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > Consider an ID consisting of: > > * vendor > > * model > > Vendor and model ids are available for PCI and USB devices, but I think you > can not assume that all busses have them and you dont gain anything if you > keep them separate (unless you want to interpret the fields of the de

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thursday 17 May 2001 22:00, Brian Wheeler wrote: > Consider an ID consisting of: > * vendor > * model Vendor and model ids are available for PCI and USB devices, but I think you can not assume that all busses have them and you dont gain anything if you keep them separate (unless

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At 11:23 PM +0200 2001-05-17, Kai Henningsen wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Lundell) wrote on 15.05.01 in >: > >> What about: >> >> 1 (network domain). I have two network interfaces that I connect to >> two different network segments, eth0 & eth1;

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001, Kai Henningsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johannes Erdfelt) wrote on 15.05.01 in ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > I had always made the assumption that sockets were created because you > > couldn't easily map IPv4 semantics onto filesystems. It's unreasonab

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (H. Peter Anvin) wrote on 16.05.01 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > At some point something talks to the device -- in this case, it's the > SCSI layer. Follow the interfaces in the kernel and it becomes obvious. rc = sys_iskind(int filehandle, const char *driverkind) rc = 0 or Eso

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Gooch) wrote on 16.05.01 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > > > > match. No wonder p

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Lundell) wrote on 15.05.01 in : > What about: > > 1 (network domain). I have two network interfaces that I connect to > two different network segments, eth0 & eth1; they're ifconfig'd to > the appropriate IP and MAC addresses.

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linus Torvalds) wrote on 15.05.01 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > They might also be exactly the same channel, except with certain magic > bits set. The example peter gave was fine: tty devices could very usefully > be opened with something like > > fd = open("/dev/tty00/nonb

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johannes Erdfelt) wrote on 15.05.01 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I had always made the assumption that sockets were created because you > couldn't easily map IPv4 semantics onto filesystems. It's unreasonable > to have a file for every possible IP address/port you can communicat

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thursday, 17. May 2001 18:58, Tim Jansen wrote: > On Thursday 17 May 2001 08:43, Thomas Sailer wrote: > > Cheap USB devices (and sometimes even expensive ones) > > do not have serial numbers or other unique identifiers. > > Therefore some sort of topology based addressing scheme > > has to be u

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[ I normally just lurk and read the archives, but...here's where I get into trouble! ] It seems to me that there are several issues that have come up in this thread, but here are my thoughts on some of them: * Identifying hardware: Since we don't want to use topology as the primary met

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Daniel Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Tuesday 15 May 2001 23:20, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > > Personally, I'd really like to see /dev/ttyS0 be the first detected > > > serial port on a system, /dev/ttyS1 the second, etc. > > > > There are well-defined rules f

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

At the risk of offending hundreds, I'll mention that dynamic naming of disks and tapes has worked very well for many years in VMS. When you e.g. mount a disk volume labelled FOO, the system creates a system logical name DISK$FOO: for it automagically. Users don't care that it's really $4$DUA7: (

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thursday 17 May 2001 19:18, you wrote: > I wouldn't make that assumpation. I have two PS/2 keybaords attached to my > system and they don't have serial ids nor do they have vendor or product > ids. Yes, PS/2 is a system where you must use the location. That's why a device id must contain the

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, 17 May 2001, James Simmons wrote: > > No, there is another addressing scheme that can be for devices without serial > > number: the vendor and product ids. Most people do not have two devices of > > the same kind, so you often do not need the topology at all. > > I wouldn't make that as

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> No, there is another addressing scheme that can be for devices without serial > number: the vendor and product ids. Most people do not have two devices of > the same kind, so you often do not need the topology at all. I wouldn't make that assumpation. I have two PS/2 keybaords attached to my

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Daniel Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tuesday 15 May 2001 23:20, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > Personally, I'd really like to see /dev/ttyS0 be the first detected > > serial port on a system, /dev/ttyS1 the second, etc. > > There are well-defined rules for the first four on PC's. The ttyS

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> For identifying this is probably the right approach. However identifying is > not enough, as the ioctl discussion has shown. Capabilities are needed. How > can the device registry provide that information ? My feedback on "device registry 0.1" was that I really liked the approach of _modelin

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Hmm. It's interesting to me that there have been no replies discussing > Tim's code. Are any of you looking at it or do you simply think it is > inconsequential and deserves to be ignored? > Or, perhaps folks feel that it is off-topic? Haven't had the chance to look at it. This weekend I wil

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thursday 17 May 2001 08:43, Thomas Sailer wrote: > Cheap USB devices (and sometimes even expensive ones) > do not have serial numbers or other unique identifiers. > Therefore some sort of topology based addressing scheme > has to be used in that case. No, there is another addressing scheme tha

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thursday 17 May 2001 14:07, you wrote: > For identifying this is probably the right approach. However identifying is > not enough, as the ioctl discussion has shown. Capabilities are needed. How > can the device registry provide that information ? The device registry provides you with device'

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly > > > has unique disk identifiers. > > > > How about for other device classes? > > Keyboards and mice dont which is a real pig because it prevents you using > dual head, two usb keyboards and 2 usb mice for a dua

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > At this point of the discussion I would like to point to the Device Registry > > patch (http://www.tjansen.de/devreg) that already solves these problems and > > offers stable device ids for the identification of devices and finding their > > /dev nodes. > > > > The devreg device id has fou

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Since, as Alan mentioned, the lack of device serial numbers for USB mice > and keyboards means that the only way to implement a relatively stable > assignment of USB input devices to a quasi-multiuser system with > multi-headed displays is by paying attention to USB topology, I would > like us t

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Linus, Is that wise? I could understand moratorium during 2.5, but during 2.4?! > And worse, what about drivers that want to be merged into 2.2? 2.2 will be using the same forked registry as 2.4-ac. I dont anticipate much being added to it that will need a major however - To unsubscribe from t

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 04:46:33AM +0200, Willem Konynenberg wrote: > I think here we might learn from the comments that people made > about how AIX and OSF/1/Tru64 have been doing this. However, I suspect that generally AIX and OSF/1 Tru64 systems come with system managers. Many Linux system do

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 02:35:55AM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > The PC partition table has such an ID. The LILO change log > mentions it. I think it's 6 random bytes, with some restriction > about being non-zero. You are confused. The partition table contains IDs, but these are the numbers

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:35:09PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > To inject a bit of concrete into this discussion, I note that block > devices with dynamically assigned don't work with CONFIG_DEVFS and > devfs=only. Block devices -require- majors currently, due to those > !@#!@# arrays. However,

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> I disagree that the kernel should apply sequence numbers You did not read my text. I do not propose the kernel should. (Quite the contrary, in fact.) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at h

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly > > > has unique disk identifiers. > > > > How about for other device classes? > > Keyboards and mice dont which is a real pig because it prevents you using > dual head, two us

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Hi! > First of all, I apologize for not having sent this notice out sooner. > This kind of writing is very painful to deal with. > > Linus Torvalds has requested a moratorium on new device number > assignments. His hope is that a new and better method for device space > handing will emerge as

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

"H. Peter Anvin" schrieb: > How about for other device classes? Cheap USB devices (and sometimes even expensive ones) do not have serial numbers or other unique identifiers. Therefore some sort of topology based addressing scheme has to be used in that case. Tom - To unsubscribe from this list:

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Heinz J. Mauelshag writes: > LVM does a similar thing storing UUIDs in its private metadata > area on every device used by it. > > Problem is: neither MD nor LVM define a standard in Linux > which *needs* to be used on every device! > > It is just up to the user to configure devices with them or

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On 16 May 2001 01:56:23 +0200, Tim Jansen wrote: > On Wednesday 16 May 2001 01:16, David Brownell wrote: > >Only if it's augmented by additional device IDs, such as the > >"what 's the physical connection for this interface" sort of > >primitive that's been mentioned. > >[...] > > I suppose that f

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [lots of sensible comments to get this discussion "on track"] > So we have: user space has file names and uses open() or mount(). > Kernel space has device paths. > > In principle the kernel could just number the devices it sees 1,2,... > and export information about the

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

To inject a bit of concrete into this discussion, I note that block devices with dynamically assigned don't work with CONFIG_DEVFS and devfs=only. Block devices -require- majors currently, due to those !@#!@# arrays. However, devfs_register_blkdev always returns zero when devfs=only, even if its

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 12:26:12AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same order? Or does it > > behave like ADB, where you never know which mouse/keyboard is which > > mouse/keyboard? > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewi

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[EMAIL PROTECTED] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > In principle the kernel could just number the devices it sees 1,2,... > and export information about them, so that user space can choose > the right number. > The part about exporting information is good. User space needs to > be able to ask if a cert

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Yes, it's broken if someone writes a cabbage dicer driver and uses > "cd" as the leaf node name for devfs. > > Yes, it's broken if someone writes a cabbage dicer driver and uses > the same major as the IDE CD-ROM or SCSI CD-ROM drivers. The difference is one is a kernel interface magic cookie

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly > > has unique disk identifiers. > > How about for other device classes? Keyboards and mice dont which is a real pig because it prevents you using dual head, two usb keyboards and 2 usb mice for a dual user box (ass

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

The LANANA discussion has forked into a forest of vaguely related discussions. If I am not mistaken the only real question is how user space and kernel space communicate device identities. Here "user space" is very different from "users". Devices have a device path and device contents. For the

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > Alan Cox writes: > > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > > > code I actually meant was: > > > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 3, "/cd") != 0) { > > > > drivers/k

RE: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

hpa wrote: > > Alan Cox wrote: > > > > > Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same > > > order? Or does it > > > behave like ADB, where you never know which > > > mouse/keyboard is which mouse/keyboard? > > > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. > > Fire

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > OK. How do you figure on dealing with the problem of multiple > high-level drivers talking to the same device? How does sr.o "know" > that this is also a CD-RW? How does sg.o "know" that this is also a > tape? > At some point something talks to the device -- in this cas

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Alan Cox writes: > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > > code I actually meant was: > > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 3, "/cd") != 0) { > > drivers/kitchen/bluetooth/vegerack/cd > > its

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > code I actually meant was: > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 3, "/cd") != 0) { drivers/kitchen/bluetooth/vegerack/cd its the cabbage dicer still .. - T

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, 16 May 2001, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > Alan Cox wrote: > > > > > Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same order? Or does it > > > behave like ADB, where you never know which mouse/keyboard is which > > > mouse/keyboard? > > > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have ser

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

[Cc: list trimmed because I figure people are getting tired of us:-] H. Peter Anvin writes: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > > > > > Erm, let's start again. My central point is that you can use devfs > > > > names to reliably figure out what

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same order? Or does it > > behave like ADB, where you never know which mouse/keyboard is which > > mouse/keyboard? > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly > has

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > > > Erm, let's start again. My central point is that you can use devfs > > > names to reliably figure out what kind of device a FD is, as a cleaner > > > alternative to comparing major numbers. Therefore, I'm challen

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

H. Peter Anvin writes: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > Erm, let's start again. My central point is that you can use devfs > > names to reliably figure out what kind of device a FD is, as a cleaner > > alternative to comparing major numbers. Therefore, I'm challenging the > > notion that you need t

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

H. Peter Anvin writes: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > We have this aliasing anyway. sg and sr are just one example. If you > > care about conflicts, then make sure the drivers lock each other out. > > It's got nothing to do with the mechanism to find out whether > > something can behave like a CD-ROM

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > Erm, let's start again. My central point is that you can use devfs > names to reliably figure out what kind of device a FD is, as a cleaner > alternative to comparing major numbers. Therefore, I'm challenging the > notion that you need to reserve magic major numbers in or

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Alan Cox wrote: > > > Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same order? Or does it > > behave like ADB, where you never know which mouse/keyboard is which > > mouse/keyboard? > > USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly > has unique disk identifi

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > Ingo Oeser wrote: > > > > > > We do this already with ide-scsi. A device is visible as /dev/hda > > > and /dev/sda at the same time. Or think IDE-CDRW: /dev/hda, > > > /dev/sr0 and /dev/sg0. > > > > > > All at the same time. > > > > > > > ... an

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> Are FireWire (and USB) disks always detected in the same order? Or does it > behave like ADB, where you never know which mouse/keyboard is which > mouse/keyboard? USB disks are required (haha etc) to have serial numbers. Firewire similarly has unique disk identifiers. - To unsubscribe from t

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

H. Peter Anvin writes: > Ingo Oeser wrote: > > > > We do this already with ide-scsi. A device is visible as /dev/hda > > and /dev/sda at the same time. Or think IDE-CDRW: /dev/hda, > > /dev/sr0 and /dev/sg0. > > > > All at the same time. > > > > ... and if you don't know about this funny alias

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, May 16 2001, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > Ingo Oeser wrote: > > > > We do this already with ide-scsi. A device is visible as /dev/hda > > and /dev/sda at the same time. Or think IDE-CDRW: /dev/hda, > > /dev/sr0 and /dev/sg0. > > > > All at the same time. > > > > ... and if you don't know ab

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Ingo Oeser wrote: > > We do this already with ide-scsi. A device is visible as /dev/hda > and /dev/sda at the same time. Or think IDE-CDRW: /dev/hda, > /dev/sr0 and /dev/sg0. > > All at the same time. > ... and if you don't know about this funny aliasing, you get screwed. This is BAD DESIGN,

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 02:36:44PM -0700, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > > But all devices which export a CD-ROM interface will do so. So the > > device node that is associated with the CD-ROM driver will export > > CD-ROM semantics, and the trailing name will be "/cd". > > > > Other interfaces a device

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Michael Meissner writes: > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:18:09PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > This is what we have now. Network devices are called "eth0..N", and nobody > > is complaining about the fact that the numbering is basically random. It > > is _repeatable_ as long as you don't change you

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > Because you are now, once again, tying two things that are > > completely and utterly unrelated: device classification and device > > name. It breaks every time someone comes out with a new device > > which is "kind of like an old device, but not really," like > > CD-

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

H. Peter Anvin writes: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > > > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > > > > code I actually meant was: > >

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> I don't mean to suggest that ioctls be used to deduce device types > (except in the case of overlapping ioctl numbers, which shouldn't be > all *that* common (I hope)). I mean to suggest that the question > "What device type are you?" usually shouldn't even be asked! But people need to ask it.

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Linus Torvalds writes: > > On Wed, 16 May 2001, Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > > > This is still a really bad idea. You don't want to tie this kind of > > > things to the name. > > > > Why do you think it's a bad idea? > > Well, one reason names are bad is that they don't always exist. > > If

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Last time I checked (that was 5 minutes ago :-) )only the last two ones were supported... On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:16:50PM -0700, James Simmons wrote: > > > On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:05:47PM -0700, James Simmons wrote: > > > > Did you ever try grub?? This a gnu project, a boot-loader, with an

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, 16 May 2001, Richard Gooch wrote: > > > > This is still a really bad idea. You don't want to tie this kind of > > things to the name. > > Why do you think it's a bad idea? Well, one reason names are bad is that they don't always exist. If you only have the fd (remember that unix noti

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:05:47PM -0700, James Simmons wrote: > > > Did you ever try grub?? This a gnu project, a boot-loader, with an embedded > > > shell... You can read ext2fs and select, your kernel, your root disk, your > > > params, etc... > > > > Yes I have tried it. Pretty cool. The

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:05:47PM -0700, James Simmons wrote: > > Did you ever try grub?? This a gnu project, a boot-loader, with an embedded > > shell... You can read ext2fs and select, your kernel, your root disk, your > > params, etc... > > Yes I have tried it. Pretty cool. The only thing is

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > H. Peter Anvin writes: > > Richard Gooch wrote: > > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > > > code I actually meant was: > > > if (strcmp (buffer + len -

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

> > I very often had to move disks from one platform to another, and changing ID's > > on the was hard or impossible in some cases, and required in others. Being > > able to find the disk by a label is a thousand times better. > > Did you ever try grub?? This a gnu project, a boot-loader, with

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

H. Peter Anvin writes: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > Argh! What I wrote in text is what I meant to say. The code didn't > > match. No wonder people seemed to be missing the point. So the line of > > code I actually meant was: > > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 3, "/cd") != 0) { > > This is still

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Richard Gooch wrote: > > Geert Uytterhoeven writes: > > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Richard Gooch wrote: > > > Alan Cox writes: > > > > > len = readlink ("/proc/self/3", buffer, buflen); > > > > > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 2, "cd") != 0) { > > > > > fprintf (stderr, "Not

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

>This is the problem with all sorts of ID-based naming. In this case >the kernel could simply change the conflicting names a bit, >and leave the cleanup to the administrator. (Who probably >is around as he just inserted those disks) NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. The kernel, when asked to report on t

Re: LANANA: To Pending Device Number Registrants

Geert Uytterhoeven writes: > On Tue, 15 May 2001, Richard Gooch wrote: > > Alan Cox writes: > > > > len = readlink ("/proc/self/3", buffer, buflen); > > > > if (strcmp (buffer + len - 2, "cd") != 0) { > > > > fprintf (stderr, "Not a CD-ROM! Bugger off.\n"); > > > >

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