You should give Apple a hint about designing a new Ethernet connector
:)) They'll give you few tens of million users wanting new network
equipment :))
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 07:53:26AM -0500, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:07:16 -0700, Wayne E Bouchard said:
>
> > They serve quite well until I get to a switch that some douchebag
> > mounted rear facing on the front posts of the rack with servers above
> > and below and
On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:07:16 -0700, Wayne E Bouchard said:
> They serve quite well until I get to a switch that some douchebag
> mounted rear facing on the front posts of the rack with servers above
> and below and I just stand there cursing for a while as I scratch my
> head trying to figure out
The "Nonfunctional" side is critical for the LPI obsessed C?O demographic,
and is therefor mandatory for most products.
I wish I didn't know that.
Nick
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
> On 12/23/2012 7:44 AM, Aled Morris wrote:
>
>> On 23 December 2012 01:07, Wayne E
On 12/23/2012 7:44 AM, Aled Morris wrote:
On 23 December 2012 01:07, Wayne E Bouchard wrote:
They serve quite well until I get to a switch that some douchebag
mounted rear facing on the front posts of the rack
I see this all the time with low-end Cisco ISR products (2... and 3...
routers) s
On 12/23/12 5:44 AM, Aled Morris wrote:
On 23 December 2012 01:07, Wayne E Bouchard wrote:
They serve quite well until I get to a switch that some douchebag
mounted rear facing on the front posts of the rack
I see this all the time with low-end Cisco ISR products (2... and 3...
routers) si
On 23 December 2012 01:07, Wayne E Bouchard wrote:
> They serve quite well until I get to a switch that some douchebag
> mounted rear facing on the front posts of the rack
I see this all the time with low-end Cisco ISR products (2... and 3...
routers) since CIsco insist on having a "pretty" pl
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 12:50:52AM -0600, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> On 12/21/12, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> > I have noticed that too. However it is not the RJ-45 connector's fault.
> > It is the morons that insist on recessing connectors in places where you
> > can't get your finger on the tab. I like t
- Original Message -
> From: "Jimmy Hess"
> On 12/21/12, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> > I have noticed that too. However it is not the RJ-45 connector's fault.
> > It is the morons that insist on recessing connectors in places where you
> > can't get your finger on the tab. I like the patch c
On 12/21/12, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> I have noticed that too. However it is not the RJ-45 connector's fault.
> It is the morons that insist on recessing connectors in places where you
> can't get your finger on the tab. I like the patch cords that have the
Likely any connector with a latching r
Once upon a time, Wayne E Bouchard said:
> And that's the main reason I never order cables with boots on them.
> They're mostly just unnecessary headaches. (BTW, you forgot to mention
> them slipping loose and just pulling away from the connector or the
> tab slipping out from under the rubber and
thing
happened with copper Ethernet.
Ralph Brandt
-Original Message-
From: Naslund, Steve [mailto:snasl...@medline.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Please, no connectors that do not lock into
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 03:48:04PM -0600, Jason Baugher wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>
> > I have noticed that too. However it is not the RJ-45 connector's fault.
> > It is the morons that insist on recessing connectors in places where you
> > can't get your fin
[mailto:br...@2mbit.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:16 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Some of us still have a stock of legacy gear and cables - things like
v35 cables for connecting to CSU/DSUs, and even the occasional AUI hub.
:)
You wouldn
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> I have noticed that too. However it is not the RJ-45 connector's fault.
> It is the morons that insist on recessing connectors in places where you
> can't get your finger on the tab. I like the patch cords that have the
> kind of loop/spri
> Some companies such as Apple have completely removed Ethernet ports from
> their Pro line laptops.
carrying a dongle sucks. but i understand the geometry problem.
randy
xtraction tabs. G.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Wieling [mailto:ewiel...@nyigc.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:30 AM
> To: Naslund, Steve; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
>
> The only thing
G.
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: Eric Wieling [mailto:ewiel...@nyigc.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:30 AM
To: Naslund, Steve; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
The only thing I would change about RJ-45 is a longer tab (but m
it and your stereo receiver.
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: Tony Finch [mailto:d...@dotat.at]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:30 AM
To: Michael Thomas
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> I'd tu
ecember 21, 2012 12:22 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said:
> That's why G*d invented RTP, of course. And all of these buses are
"slow"
> by the time they're popular enough to worry ab
On 12/21/2012 12:00 PM, Aled Morris wrote:
On 21 December 2012 18:22, Chris Adams wrote:
I will say that one nice thing about having different connectors for
different protocols (on consumer devices anyway) is that you don't have
to worry about somebody plugging the Internet into the "Video 1"
On 21 December 2012 18:22, Chris Adams wrote:
> I will say that one nice thing about having different connectors for
> different protocols (on consumer devices anyway) is that you don't have
> to worry about somebody plugging the Internet into the "Video 1" port
> and wondering why they aren't ge
Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said:
> That's why G*d invented RTP, of course. And all of these buses are "slow"
> by the time they're popular enough to worry about. In any case, delete
> the "ethernet" part if you want to still play with the mac/phy.
Well, the reply was sent in response to som
On 12/21/2012 09:29 AM, Tony Finch wrote:
Michael Thomas wrote:
I'd turn this back the other way though: in this day and age, why do we
have any interconnection/bus that isn't just ethernet/IP?
The need for isochronous transmission and more bandwidth.
That's why G*d invented RTP, of course
]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Please, no connectors that do not lock into place. Is plugging in the
RJ-45 that much of a task? Most portable devices are going wireless in any
case so they are not an issue. T
Michael Thomas wrote:
>
> I'd turn this back the other way though: in this day and age, why do we
> have any interconnection/bus that isn't just ethernet/IP?
The need for isochronous transmission and more bandwidth.
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Forties, Cromarty: East, veering
hoice with devices so physically thin that you
can't get the jack in there.
I think I will keep the RJ for now.
Steven Naslund
-Original Message-
From: Aled Morris [mailto:al...@qix.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:38 PM
To: Michael Thomas
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: why h
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:34 AM, eric clark wrote:
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only problem with the RJ45 is the hook.
That's what cable boots are for.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us
3005 Crane Dr.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Tony Finch wrote:
> I guess a magsafe ethernet connector would have too much noise (owing to
> poor quality connection) to provide decently high bandwidth.
I don't see why a magsafe connection would be any more or less noisy
than an rj45. They both follow the sam
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> At which point the 8P8C connectors on desktops and laptops changes
> from RJ45 to
> SFP+ cage with LC connector, or direct-attach SFP+ between
> laptop and"active" fabric extender in the nearby wall jack; fed
> by fiber, with 10G-S
On 12/21/2012 04:08 AM, Aled Morris wrote:
Good luck with that! :-) Referring back to the original question and the reference to Raspberry Pi... The latest HDMI has Ethernet capability and the connector is already on the Pi, so there's a possible (future) solution that would work for all manner of
t; >
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:20 AM
> > To: NANOG list
> > Subject: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
> >
> > I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board an
Tom Morris wrote:
>
> Boy would I ever love an ethernet connector that works like Apple's
> MagSafe...
I guess a magsafe ethernet connector would have too much noise (owing to
poor quality connection) to provide decently high bandwidth.
This thread reminds me of http://fanf.livejournal.com/96172
rising is that
> Black Box is still around.
>
>
> matthew black
> california state university, long beach
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:20 AM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: w
university, long beach
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:20 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the ethernet
connector
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:20 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the ethernet
connector is in comparison to the
> From: Warren Bailey [mailto:wbai...@satelliteintelligencegroup.com]
> I'm shocked there hasn't been a whisper of amphenol. As an rf guy, I
> vote all connectors move to sma or bnc. I can then justify the cost of
> a Walmart 10 foot cable for 25 dollars.. And if we gold plate them, we
> can char
On 21 December 2012 09:59, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> Something optical, like a >10 GBit/s SR version of TOSLINK
> would be nice.
>
>
Good luck with that! :-)
Referring back to the original question and the reference to Raspberry Pi...
The latest HDMI has Ethernet capability and the connector is al
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 01:13:15PM -0800, George Herbert wrote:
> I don't know that the discussion is a NANOG-centric one from here on
> in, but it's good to have raised the idea.
Something optical, like a >10 GBit/s SR version of TOSLINK
would be nice.
On 12/20/12, Wayne E Bouchard wrote:
> Really, it will remain that way until the bandwidth needs from the
> desktop begin to push the GE threshold. Until then, why bother
> changing anything? When that does happen, it'll pretty well deal with
> itself.
At which point the 8P8C connectors on deskt
There could also be some valid technical reasons:
1. The conductors really can't get any thinner. In fact, with Cat6A,
they're somewhat thicker than Cat5E.
2. I would also think that the conductors/pins really can't get much
closer together inside the connector shell, without cross-talk becomi
chael Thomas
Sent: 12/20/2012 13:21
To: NANOG list
Subject: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me: ethernet
connectors haven't changed th
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the
ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me: ethernet
connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years. Every
other
cable has chan
any mistakes.
Original message
From: George Herbert
Date: 12/20/2012 1:15 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Having (once) tapped thicknet, done a lot of thinnet termination and
cable cut debugging, and then used hubs and sw
On 12/20/2012 01:13 PM, George Herbert wrote:
For some users, even more positive than RJ45 is warranted. I at times
work in and have a number of friends working in various aerospace and
rocketry areas, and RJ45's have been widely known to come loose under
acceleration.
I found that a spliced t
On 2012-12-20, at 12:13 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> Do these
> things need to have gig-e speeds? Probably not... for a lot even Bluetooth
> speeds
> are probably fine. But they do want to be really small and really inexpensive.
Then run RS-422 or RS-485 over a single twisted pair. You don't ev
Having (once) tapped thicknet, done a lot of thinnet termination and
cable cut debugging, and then used hubs and switches in 10BT and
onwards...
Having had one main standard (RJ45) has been a huge benefit to
advancing the state of networking to where we are today. But it is
probably worth questio
I think that you might be describing the DIX connector retaining clamp.
Dave Edelman
On Dec 20, 2012, at 13:40, "Howard C. Berkowitz" wrote:
> On 12/20/2012 1:20 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
>> I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the
>> ethernet
>> connector is
On 12/20/2012 10:41 AM, Wayne E Bouchard wrote:
How many people here have gotten good enough that they can cut a
cable and pop connectors on each end in under 3 minutes? How many have
gotten good enough that the failure rate for *hand made* cables is sub
1:1000? Show me another connector type whe
On 12/20/2012 12:01 PM, William Herrin wrote:
On the other hand, I wonder if it would be worth asking the 802.3 committee look at defining a single-pair ethernet standard that would interoperate with a normal 4-pair switch. So, you'd have two conductors into some kind of 2P2C micro-RJ connector on
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Andrew Gallo wrote:
> The connector is to ubiquitous to change. Other vendors have addressed
> the space issue by not supporting Ethernet, but forcing the use of a USB
> dongle (Macbook Air comes to mind).
Thin net (50 ohm coax w/ BNC connectors) was ubiquitous o
On 12/20/2012 11:43 AM, William Herrin wrote:
Also, RJ45 is around the minimum size where you can hand-terminate a
cable. How would you go about quickly making a 36.5 foot 8 conductor
cable with, say, micro USB ends?
You're assuming that that's a universal requirement. Most people
in retail si
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> So why, oh why, nanog the omniscient do we still use rj45's?
Because they *work*.
How much trouble do we have with USB or HDMI connectors coming loose?
Also, RJ45 is around the minimum size where you can hand-terminate a
cable. How would
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 12/20/2012 1:20 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the
> ethernet
> connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me:
ethernet
> connectors haven't changed that I'm awa
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> So why, oh why, nanog the omniscient do we still use rj45's?
Because 8P8C connectors are well understood (both
physically, and electrically)? And inertia matters.
On some newer kit, Apple has removed the Ethernet port
and uses a Thu
Sort of like saying why haven't we changed from RJ-48's for phones...old
habits die hard I guess! For the most part the RJ-45 connector is pretty
sturdy...remember those silly dongle cables that were used for pc-card
Ethernet adapters in laptops...those things would last about a month
before dy
Do note that the 8P8C on the Raspberry Pi has integrated magnetics
that you can't see without an x-ray imager. The space is not as wasted
as some might think.
Nothing stops a mfr from using whatever they want and providing a
dongle, but now they need board space for the transformers.
Love those friction fit connectors till they loosen and fall out
Ralph Brandt
-Original Message-
From: Tom Morris [mailto:bluen...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:34 PM
To: Michael Thomas
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
Is that the infamous Google Pluto switch?
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Joshua Goldbard wrote:
> They haven't changed for you:
> http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzJPvwOhWoL2afxBdl7a-LmYYWwzgQNpiHSXr4ppIMgsZuWP6Oy1NVnrpN
>
> Cheers,
> Joshua
--
~Em
ven't ethernet connectors changed?
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the
ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me:
ethernet
connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years. Every
other
cable has chan
Once upon a time, Tom Morris said:
> Boy would I ever love an ethernet connector that works like Apple's
> MagSafe... or at least just kinda friction fits like USB... THOSE
> TABS...
Please, NO! Connectors without a positive locking mechanism should just
die (and that includes IEC power connecto
On 12/20/2012 10:28 AM, Michael Loftis wrote:
It's not all about density. You *Must* have positive retention and alignment.
None of the USB nor firewire standards provide for positive retention. eSATA
does sort of in some variants but the connectors for USB are especially
delicate and easy
There is also the factor that cat5 is the principle desktop to network
connection. That being the case, there's very strong motivation for
ensuring that construction of that cable can be done very easily by
barely trained folks. Otherwise, laying out an office or cube farm
becomes considerably more
On 12/20/2012 1:20 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large
the ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me:
ethernet
connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years.
Every other
cable has chan
They haven't changed for you:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzJPvwOhWoL2afxBdl7a-LmYYWwzgQNpiHSXr4ppIMgsZuWP6Oy1NVnrpN
Cheers,
Joshua
On Dec 20, 2012, at 10:29 AM,
mailto:tech-li...@packet-labs.net>>
wrote:
On 2012-12-20 12:20, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi
On 20 December 2012 18:20, Michael Thomas wrote
> ethernet
> connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years.
15-pin D-type AUI connectors with slide latches?
BNC for thinwire?
I do agree though, something more like mini-USB would be more appropriate
for home Ethernet use.
g all of that legacy hardware entirely.
-Original Message-
From: Michael Loftis [mailto:mlof...@wgops.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:29 PM
To: Michael Thomas
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
It's not all about density. You *Must
the 8p8c connector is durable.
The connector predates twisted pair ethernet by a decade or more.
you could also ask about 1/4" TRS which is still in use albiet not in
phone systems for about 100 years longer.
On 12/20/12 10:20 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board
I'm going to go by the "Necessity is the mother of invention" theory
here and say that it's basically because the need for a subcompact
ethernet connector hasn't shown up in masse yet. It was probably just
adopted because it's inexpensive, easy to install using tools already
out there in the teleco
: NANOG list
Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
It's not all about density. You *Must* have positive retention and
alignment. None of the USB nor firewire standards provide for positive
retention. eSATA does sort of in some variants but the connectors for USB
are
On Dec 20, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the
> ethernet
> connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me: ethernet
> connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years.
Actually,
On 2012-12-20 12:20, Michael Thomas wrote:
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large
the ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me:
ethernet
connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years.
Every other
cable has change
It's not all about density. You *Must* have positive retention and
alignment. None of the USB nor firewire standards provide for positive
retention. eSATA does sort of in some variants but the connectors for USB
are especially delicate and easy to break off and destroy. There's the
size of the
I was looking at a Raspberry Pi board and was struck with how large the ethernet
connector is in comparison to the board as a whole. It strikes me: ethernet
connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years. Every other
cable has changed several times in that time frame. I imaging
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