On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> I'd like to argue that you're not using Fortran, then. You're making
>> use of it in the same way that I might make use of Ruby, PHP, and Perl
>> when I browse the web
>
> Yes one can argue so
> But one can also argue that this is a 1990s viewp
I guess to be more clear here is a small code snippet that shows what is
happening more readably. Hence the underscores question.
class MainAuiManager(aui.AuiManager):
def __init__(self, managed_window=None, agwFlags=0)
aui.AuiManager.__init__(self, managed_window, agwFlags)
On Friday, May 9, 2014 8:01:56 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
>
>
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Although Fortran is still in use, and widely so, it is mostly used for
> >> accessing existing Fortran libraries rather than writi
On Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:24:00 PM UTC-6, Ian wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Metallicow wrote:
> > I seem to be comfortable with all the information out around the net dealing
> > with python naming conventions. Occasionally I have to remind myself on some
> > of this stuff. The PEP8 do
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Metallicow wrote:
> I seem to be comfortable with all the information out around the net dealing
> with python naming conventions. Occasionally I have to remind myself on some
> of this stuff. The PEP8 does a good job for most of it, but I am having a bit
> of troub
I seem to be comfortable with all the information out around the net dealing
with python naming conventions. Occasionally I have to remind myself on some
of this stuff. The PEP8 does a good job for most of it, but I am having a bit
of trouble finding some more detailed information on the trailing h
Gregory Ewing writes:
> If you look at the way the word "variable" is used across a variety of
> language communities, the common meaning is more or less "something
> that can appear on the left hand side of an assignment statement".
The clear experience from years in this and other Python forum
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <536c3049$0$29965$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Although Fortran is still in use, and widely so, it is mostly used for
>> accessing existing Fortran libraries rather than writing new
>> applicatio
In article <536c3049$0$29965$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Although Fortran is still in use, and widely so, it is mostly used for
> accessing existing Fortran libraries rather than writing new
> applications. There may be niches where that does not hold, where p
On 05/08/2014 11:39 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
Yep. I've removed a few of them from the file over the years because
some people were offended by them. And I'll continue to do so...
Thanks, much appreciated.
--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:02:36 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On 08 May 2014 16:04:51 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> declaimed the following:
>
>>Personally, I think that trying to be general and talk about "many other
>>languages" is a failing strategy. Better to be concrete: C, Pascal,
>>Algol, Fortr
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Simon wrote:
> I'd like to make a C memory buffer available inside Python via the Python
> C/API without copying that memory into Python. How to do this? I've read [1]
> but it's not clear that this functionality exists. In javascript it's
> possible using String
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Today we routinely call horseless carriages
"cars", and nobody would blink if I pointed at a Prius or a Ford Explorer
and said "that's not a carriage, it's a car" except to wonder why on
earth I thought something so obvious needed to be said.
That's only because the ter
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> Before you go too far down roads that are starting to look
>> problematic: A DNS lookup is a UDP packet out and a UDP packet in
>> (ignoring the possibility of TCP queries, which you probably won't be
>> doing here). May
On Thu, 08 May 2014 09:26:57 +0200, Johannes Schneider wrote:
> On 08.05.2014 02:35, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> [..]
>> Python, on the other hand, has this behaviour::
>>
>> foo = [1, 2, 3]
>> bar = foo # ‘bar’ binds to the value ‘[1, 2, 3]’ assert
>> fo
On 09/05/2014 01:05, Ethan Furman wrote:
Back when I was trying to learn the differences between Python's
name-binding and C-like variables, a couple folks stepped up and
provided great assistance.
This first email, while delving into details that are not accessible in
Python, still helped a gre
Back when I was trying to learn the differences between Python's name-binding and C-like variables, a couple folks
stepped up and provided great assistance.
This first email, while delving into details that are not accessible in Python,
still helped a great deal:
https://mail.python.org/piperm
On Thu, 08 May 2014 14:50:08 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> I guess my point is, calling aliases variables wasn't the misleading
> part, it was my lack of knowledge that there was more than one kind of
> variable possible. Such ignorance is only solved by learning different
> languages,
The *only*
On 09/05/2014 00:10, Simon wrote:
I'd like to make a C memory buffer available inside Python via the Python C/API
without copying that memory into Python. How to do this? I've read [1] but it's
not clear that this functionality exists. In javascript it's possible using
String::NewExternal() [2
On 05/08/2014 07:03 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Ethan Furman :
On 05/08/2014 05:41 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
For those people, talking about variables as a container to hold a
value is the right level of abstraction.
Teaching someone that Python variables are containers is a massive fail.
But tha
On 05/08/2014 01:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Terry Reedy :
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
wrote:
For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer
pointing to memory.
You are missing a level of indirection. In CPython, a name (always in
some namespace) r
I'd like to make a C memory buffer available inside Python via the Python C/API
without copying that memory into Python. How to do this? I've read [1] but it's
not clear that this functionality exists. In javascript it's possible using
String::NewExternal() [2].
"Creates a new external string u
I'd like to make a C memory buffer available inside Python via the Python C/API
without copying that memory into Python. How to do this? I've read [1] but it's
not clear that this functionality exists. In javascript it's possible using
String::NewExternal() [2].
"Creates a new external string u
On 05/08/2014 12:14 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
Point being, shunning the term "variable" is counterproductive. Python
variables are nothing special and calling them "variables" doesn't
mislead anybody.
Okay, that's your point. You haven't backed it up, so I'll ignore it for
On 08/05/2014 21:44, Ian Kelly wrote:
> I don't think it needs to be "messy". Something like this should do
> the trick, I think:
>
> from concurrent.futures import *
> from itertools import islice
>
> def batched_pool_runner(f, iterable, pool, batch_size):
> it = iter(iterable)
> # Submit the
On May 8, 2014 12:57 PM, "Andrew McLean" wrote:
> So far so good. However, I thought this would be an opportunity to
> explore concurrent.futures and to see whether it offered any benefits
> over the more explicit approach discussed above. The problem I am having
> is that all the discussions I ca
On 5/8/2014 2:55 PM, Andrew McLean wrote:
I have a problem that would benefit from a multithreaded implementation
and having trouble understanding how to approach it using
concurrent.futures.
The details don't really matter, but it will probably help to be
explicit. I have a large CSV file that
Terry Reedy :
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
>> wrote:
>>> For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer
>>> pointing to memory.
>
> You are missing a level of indirection. In CPython, a name (always in
> some namespace) represents a pointer to a pointer
On 2014-05-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 01 May 2014 21:55:20 +0100, Adam Funk
> declaimed the following:
>
>>On 2014-05-01, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>> Math teacher was selling them in my 10th grade... Actually I already
>>> owned a Faber-Castell 57/22 "Business" ruler (which did
Andrew McLean :
> That's fine, but I suspect that isn't a helpful pattern if I have a
> very large number of tasks. In my case I could run out of memory if I
> tried submitting all of the tasks to the executor before processing
> any of the results.
This is related to flow control. You'll need an
Chris Angelico :
> Before you go too far down roads that are starting to look
> problematic: A DNS lookup is a UDP packet out and a UDP packet in
> (ignoring the possibility of TCP queries, which you probably won't be
> doing here). Maybe it would be easier to implement it as asynchronous
> networ
On 08/05/2014 20:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Andrew McLean wrote:
>> Because of latency in the DNS lookup this could
>> benefit from multithreading.
> Before you go too far down roads that are starting to look
> problematic: A DNS lookup is a UDP packet out and a UD
On 5/8/2014 4:14 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
wrote:
For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer pointing to
memory.
You are missing a level of indirection. In CPython, a name (always in
some namespace) represents a pointe
On 2014-05-08 18:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > Looks like a Zippy the Pinhead quote to me...
>
> Yep.
I'm kinda disappointed having the curtain pulled back like that. I'd
just assumed it was some nifty tool that turned a GPG/PGP signature
into MadLibs™-style fill-in-the-blank and then flowed in
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> Ben Finney :
>
> > Who does that? I haven't seen anyone raising this topic with a
> > beginner in a hostile manner (“flogging”? why the hyperbole?), and
> > it's certainly not characteristic of how the topic is raised here.
>
> Flogging, spanking, admonishing, whatever.
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Andrew McLean wrote:
> Because of latency in the DNS lookup this could
> benefit from multithreading.
Before you go too far down roads that are starting to look
problematic: A DNS lookup is a UDP packet out and a UDP packet in
(ignoring the possibility of TCP queri
I have a problem that would benefit from a multithreaded implementation
and having trouble understanding how to approach it using
concurrent.futures.
The details don't really matter, but it will probably help to be
explicit. I have a large CSV file that contains a lot of fields, amongst
them one c
On 2014-05-08, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Some filtering of your sigs would be appreciated.
>
> Looks like a Zippy the Pinhead quote to me...
>
> http://rosinstrument.com/cgi-bin/fortune.pl/21?97
Yep. I've removed a few of them from the file o
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Jessica McKellar
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm trying to determine the greatest depth (in the ocean or underground) and
> highest altitude at which Python code has been executed.
I have written avionics data collection apps there were used in small
general aviation ai
On 07/05/2014 03:31, Jessica McKellar wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm trying to determine the greatest depth (in the ocean or underground)
and highest altitude at which Python code has been executed.
[snip]
Do you have some good candidates? Please let me know!
I have executed Python code (bottle web
On 08/05/2014 16:07, Ian Kelly wrote:
The DataHandler class in 3.4 is all of 14 lines of code. My first
which makes me wonder why the old URLopener is still there and why all this
wasn't done before 3.0 appeared.
instinct would be to backport that and add it to some OpenerDirector
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Personally, I think that trying to be general and talk about "many other
> languages" is a failing strategy. Better to be concrete: C, Pascal,
> Algol, Fortran, VB (I think) are good examples of the "value in a box at
> a fixed location" mod
On Fri, 09 May 2014 00:51:01 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> which is patently false, as
>>> a number of other languages do the same thing (often calling them
>>> variables). So what does "Python doesn't have variables" mean? Really
>>> it's "Python doesn't have variables like C's or Pascal's".
>
On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:34:14 PM UTC-3, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm afraid I don't know what "eight miles high" in the figurative sense
> means.
I was referring to the Byrd's song "Eight Miles High"--purportedly a drug
song.
-- SJM
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Robin Becker wrote:
> Since urllib doesn't always work as expected in 3.3 I've had to write a
> small stub for the special data: case. Doing all the splitting off of the
> headers seems harder than just doing the special case.
>
> However, there are a lot of these '
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
>> Maybe the shock value is helpful, but that doesn't mean the statement's
>> strictly correct. It seems that every time we have one of these
>> discussions, someone claims that Python's name->object bindings are
>> utterly unique in the worl
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Some filtering of your sigs would be appreciated.
Looks like a Zippy the Pinhead quote to me...
http://rosinstrument.com/cgi-bin/fortune.pl/21?97
Skip
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 5/8/2014 8:41 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
Jerry Hill wrote:
thinking of python variables as having two parts -- names and values
-- really can help people who are struggling to learn the language.
There's many levels of learning, and we see them all on this list.
For people who a
On 05/08/2014 06:28 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
Yow! All this time I've at been VIEWING a RUSSIAN MIDGET SODOMIZE a HOUSECAT!
Some filtering of your sigs would be appreciated.
--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Thu, 08 May 2014 23:46:31 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> So... although I don't go quite so far as Ben in thinking that using
>> the term "variable" in describing Python is harmful, I will say that
>> the "no variables" meme is *usef
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:06 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> Agreed, although this entire thread of conversation kind of illustrates
> a kind of debating of issues that happen regularly on this mailing list
> and probably does turn off a lot of newbies, and probably turned off the
> original poster a
On 05/08/2014 07:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Nobody has suggested flogging anyone, not even figuratively. Unless you
> believe that correcting a misapprehension, no matter how gently it is
> done, is a flogging, I don't see how you draw the conclusion that Ben is
> talking about flogging any
Ethan Furman :
> On 05/08/2014 05:41 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
>> For those people, talking about variables as a container to hold a
>> value is the right level of abstraction.
>
> [...]
>
> Teaching someone that Python variables are containers is a massive fail.
But that's what they are.
We are real
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> So... although I don't go quite so far as Ben in thinking that using the
> term "variable" in describing Python is harmful, I will say that the "no
> variables" meme is *useful* precisely because it is so shocking and so
> counter-intuitive
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I also don't remember off the top of my head what you're
> supposed to do with headers that get too long (I think you just stick
> in a \r\n followed by some whitespace and then continue the header,
> but I'd have to look that up and then tes
On 05/08/2014 05:41 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
Jerry Hill wrote:
thinking of python variables as having two parts -- names and values
-- really can help people who are struggling to learn the language.
There's many levels of learning, and we see them all on this list.
For people wh
On 2014-05-08, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:51 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> Unfortunately, the actual SSL wrapping stuff isn't being done in my
>> code. It's being done by the secure-smtpd module, which will pass
>> whatever cert/key params I give it to ssl.wrap_socket(). Tha
On 2014-05-07, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On May 7, 2014 9:13 AM, "Chris Angelico" wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:06 AM, Burak Arslan
> wrote:
>> > Seeing how discussion is still going on about this, I'd like to state
>> > once more what I said above in other words: You just need to do this:
>> >
On Thu, 08 May 2014 18:14:48 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
> wrote:
>> For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer pointing
>> to memory. bar = foo copies the pointer and not the underlying memory.
>> This is not a foreign
On Thu, 08 May 2014 12:43:29 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ben Finney :
>
>> The concern is that the term “variable”'s existing baggage in the
>> programming community encourages *false inferences* that a beginner
>> doesn't even realise they're drawing. By discouraging use of that term
>> and r
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> At some point, that model no longer fits reality well enough that it
> becomes a barrier to further learning. When I write:
>
> def mutate(x, y):
> x = 42
> y[0] = 42
>
> x = 4
> y = [4]
>
> mutate(x, y)
> print x, y
>
> and run it, unle
In article ,
Jerry Hill wrote:
> thinking of python variables as having two parts -- names and values
> -- really can help people who are struggling to learn the language.
There's many levels of learning, and we see them all on this list.
For people who are just learning programming, and are
Ben Finney :
> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>
>> I don't think flogging the beginner for talking about variables helps
>> them get Python's data model. All that accomplishes is that they will
>> shut up about variables in the fear of being flogged and not
>> understand the data model any better.
>
> Wh
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> I don't think flogging the beginner for talking about variables helps
> them get Python's data model. All that accomplishes is that they will
> shut up about variables in the fear of being flogged and not understand
> the data model any better.
Who does that? I haven't s
On 08/05/2014 04:46, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 11:42:24 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
I have an outstanding request for ReportLab to allow images to be opened
using the data: scheme. That used to be supported in python 2.7 using
urllib, but in python 3.3 urllib2 --> urllib and at
Dear all,
Apologies as this sounds like a very simple question but I can't find an answer
anywhere.
I have loaded a netCDF4 file into python as follows:
swh=netCDF4.Dataset('path/to/netCDFfile,'r')
I then isolate the variables I wish to plot:
hs=swh.variables['hs']
year=swh.variables['year']
Ben Finney :
> The concern is that the term “variable”'s existing baggage in the
> programming community encourages *false inferences* that a beginner
> doesn't even realise they're drawing. By discouraging use of that term
> and replacing it with “name binding” or “reference”, a more accurate
> m
Ned Batchelder writes:
> I thought we were concerned with beginners incorrectly thinking Python
> worked like C, but this [pseudocode] is nothing like C.
I'm not concerned about where these misconceptions come from, whether C
or any other language.
The concern is that the term “variable”'s exis
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
wrote:
> For me, names bound to values is the same concept as pointer pointing to
> memory. bar = foo copies the pointer and not the underlying memory. This is
> not a foreign concept to C programmers.
>
That is how it's implemented in CPyth
Le 08/05/2014 02:35, Ben Finney a écrit :
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
Ben Finney :
That's why I always try to say “Python doesn't have variables the way
you might know from many other languages”,
Please elaborate. To me, Python variables are like variables in all
programming languages I know.
On 08.05.2014 02:35, Ben Finney wrote:
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
[..]
Python, on the other hand, has this behaviour::
foo = [1, 2, 3]
bar = foo # ‘bar’ binds to the value ‘[1, 2, 3]’
assert foo == bar # succeeds
foo[1] = "spam"# ‘foo’ *and* ‘bar’ now == [1, "spa
On 07-05-14 16:32, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> So I'm not sure that what you want to do is the polite thing to do.
> Why not?
Nevermind, I originally hadn't thought things completly through.
--
Antoon Pardon
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Rustom Mody :
> I get the impression that you dont get the difference (I think Marko
> is making) between
> - language has pointers
> - language has pointer semantics
Yes.
Like Python, Java doesn't have pointers. However, when you try to
dereference null, a NullPointerException is thrown. Pointe
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