Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-17 Thread Carl Boettiger
Hi list, I agree with's Ben's definition of AIC, " expected (Kullback-Leibler) distance between a hypothetical 'true model' and any specified model", I just feel that doesn't give any intuition to a frequentist which is what I thought the question was asking. Ben, for references to this derivatio

Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-17 Thread Joe Felsenstein
Ben Bolker -- >> Now we can apply Fisher's Likelihood Ratio Test of Fisher as well >> as the AIC. The LRT tells us that the expectation > > ... under the null hypothesis where M0 (the simpler model) is true? Yup. I'm considering that case to see how the AIC fits in with the LRT. Of course

Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-17 Thread Ben Bolker
On 12-06-17 07:35 AM, Joe Felsenstein wrote: > > Ben Bolker wrote: > >> I'd like to chime in here ... again ready to be corrected by others. >> The description above doesn't match my understanding of AIC at all >> (although again I will be perfectly happy, and in fact really >> interested, if yo

Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-16 Thread Ben Bolker
On 12-06-14 08:53 AM, Joe Felsenstein wrote: > > Carl Boettiger wrote: > >> Others on the list can weigh in with more authority, but perhaps >> this will get the discussion started. > > Yes, it's important to know whether the parameters are nested, and > the issue of being at the end of a param

Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-14 Thread Joe Felsenstein
Carl Boettiger wrote: > Others on the list can weigh in with more authority, but perhaps this will > get the discussion started. Yes, it's important to know whether the parameters are nested, and the issue of being at the end of a parameter range is serious. > Recall that AIC values are a feque

Re: [R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-13 Thread Carl Boettiger
Hi Anurag, list, Others on the list can weigh in with more authority, but perhaps this will get the discussion started. I think your question gets at how the models are nested. To ensure that the likelihoods are chi-square distributed you also need to make sure that the parameter is not constrai

[R-sig-phylo] LL ratio test

2012-06-13 Thread Anurag Agrawal
Dear physigs, I've been using likelihood ratio tests in various statistical models and have seen mixed usage of two- vs. on-tailed tests of the difference in the LL of two models. On the one hand, a one-tailed test seems reasonable because a model can only reduce the model fit if we remove a pa