Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-04-06 Thread Paul King
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I was mostly interested in feedback on the maven coordinates rather than package names, but it was good to get views on both. We have already started creating new classes using the org.apache package prefix rather than org.codehaus and I presume that we can continu

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-31 Thread Jeff
> > Is this not the whole point of releasing versioned binaries? It just >> means a couple of extra steps when I upgrade. First, change the >> coordinates (group + version instead of just the version) and a quick >> refactor of my imports. Every modern IDE makes this easy. >> >> >> This is not m

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-31 Thread Jochen Theodorou
On 30.03.2017 20:58, Miro Bezjak wrote: [...] So if we are talking about JDK9 modules them I'm with Jason and the rest of you. Sure, breaking backwards compatibility is a sensible thing to do in that case. and I wish I would know how to solve all the problems. Right now it seems like Groovy wi

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-31 Thread Cédric Champeau
> > > > > Is this not the whole point of releasing versioned binaries? It just > means a couple of extra steps when I upgrade. First, change the > coordinates (group + version instead of just the version) and a quick > refactor of my imports. Every modern IDE makes this easy. > > > This is not m

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread predatorvi
from Mail for Windows 10 From: Keegan Witt Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:24 PM To: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward That's a good point.  It could cause some issues for Groovy as a transitive dependency, but doing a global exclude in Maven is fairly ea

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Keegan Witt
That's a good point. It could cause some issues for Groovy as a transitive dependency, but doing a global exclude in Maven is fairly easy to do. On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Cédric Champeau wrote: > One thing one has to consider when changing Maven coordinates, is... > Maven. Despite being

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Miro Bezjak
ewrite all functionality from scratch is never a valid scenario for 10+ year old projects. Jason *From:* Guillaume Laforge [mailto:glafo...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:21 AM *To:* users@groovy.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Maven coordinates going forward And there's

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
rg.uk<mailto:rus...@winder.org.uk>] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:54 AM To: users@groovy.apache.org<mailto:users@groovy.apache.org> Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: > We have to keep in mind that there's a

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Guillaume Laforge
Russel Winder [mailto:rus...@winder.org.uk] >> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:54 AM >> To: users@groovy.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward >> >> On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: >> > We have to keep in mind t

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread David Clark
o: users@groovy.apache.org > Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward > > On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: > > We have to keep in mind that there's a larger story here, which is > > supporting Groovy as a module. And this *will* require package ch

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
excludes groovy.lang.Closure so that it defers to the G3 implementation. Jason From: Cédric Champeau [mailto:cedric.champ...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:18 AM To: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward And again, _we have no choice_. If we want

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Cédric Champeau
> >> -Original Message- >> From: Russel Winder [mailto:rus...@winder.org.uk] >> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:54 AM >> To: users@groovy.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward >> >> On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Cham

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Cédric Champeau
ay, March 30, 2017 3:54 AM > To: users@groovy.apache.org > Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward > > On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: > > We have to keep in mind that there's a larger story here, which is > > supporting Groovy as a module. And

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
ovy 3 and re-release. Jason -Original Message- From: Russel Winder [mailto:rus...@winder.org.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:54 AM To: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: > We have to keep

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Russel Winder
On Thu, 2017-03-30 at 09:26 +0200, Cédric Champeau wrote: > We have to keep in mind that there's a larger story here, which is > supporting Groovy as a module. And this *will* require package > changes and > binary breaking changes. So I don't think the status quo is > acceptable in > the long run.

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Cédric Champeau
We have to keep in mind that there's a larger story here, which is supporting Groovy as a module. And this *will* require package changes and binary breaking changes. So I don't think the status quo is acceptable in the long run. 2017-03-30 9:22 GMT+02:00 Russel Winder : > On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 1

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-30 Thread Russel Winder
On Wed, 2017-03-29 at 15:42 -0400, Keith Suderman wrote: > Given Cédric's email and recent comments I think I have been > convinced to change my vote to a -1 for changing Maven coordinates or > package names. > > Is there a compelling technical argument for either change?  Going by > the old adage

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-29 Thread Keith Suderman
Given Cédric's email and recent comments I think I have been convinced to change my vote to a -1 for changing Maven coordinates or package names. Is there a compelling technical argument for either change? Going by the old adage, "if it ain't broke don't fix it", what exactly is being "fixed"?

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-29 Thread Scott Hickey
The transitive dependency problem is also challenge for non-open source, internally developed enterprise applications as well. I'm having a hard time seeing how this "should be fairly low impact." I agree with: "I would do this for the "breaking" version of Groovy, whatever it is, but not before."

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-29 Thread Miro Bezjak
-1 for both maven coordinates and package change. Please don't break backwards compatibility. Maybe I'm missing something but I see no good reason for either change. As others have mentioned, there is a lot of unmaintained code that would stop working as a result of a package change. So in my opin

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-28 Thread Cédric Champeau
One thing one has to consider when changing Maven coordinates, is... Maven. Despite being a build tool, it does a fairly poor job when coordinates change. In particular, think of conflict resolution. What should it decide if A depends on org.codehaus.groovy:2.4.10 and B depends on org.apache.groovy

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-28 Thread Keegan Witt
I'm +1 on Maven coordinate change. That should be fairly low impact. I agree package renames should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Offhand, the two biggest things that come to mind are custom ASTs, and the compilation bits. For the former, I'd think it shouldn't be any worse than the groovy.

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-28 Thread Jochen Theodorou
On 27.03.2017 22:14, Wilson MacGyver wrote: as I recall, there are also rules about jigsaw not allowing same package path from multiple modules. It's not till java 9, but that maybe a concern. That is right, yes... it is only a problem for Groovy as named or automatic module though. As long a

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-28 Thread Péter Gergely Horváth
ing the package name to the >>>> group ID, that’s not a common operation and modern IDEs (and >>>> search.maven.org) can easily answer the question if needed. The only >>>> drawback to changing Maven coordinates is it might make it harder for >>>> people to know there i

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Guillaume Laforge
>> search.maven.org) can easily answer the question if needed. The only >>> drawback to changing Maven coordinates is it might make it harder for >>> people to know there is a newer package, that is, to search for upgrades we >>> check for more recent versions of

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Wilson MacGyver
vy >> I think it will be clear when Groovy 3 comes out that users will know. >> >> >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> *From:* Keith Suderman [mailto:suder...@anc.org] >> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 2:49 PM >> *To:* users@groovy.apache.org >>

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Paul Moore
On 27 March 2017 at 19:49, Keith Suderman wrote: > +1 for changing Maven coordinates. > > -1 for changing package names. Sure, new code can use the new package > names, but changing existing packages is just breaking changes for the sake > of breaking things with no real benefit. I hope the Groo

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Guillaume Laforge
> Jason > > > > *From:* Keith Suderman [mailto:suder...@anc.org] > *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 2:49 PM > *To:* users@groovy.apache.org > *Subject:* Re: Maven coordinates going forward > > > > +1 for changing Maven coordinates. > > > > -1 for changing

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward +1 for changing Maven coordinates. -1 for changing package names. Sure, new code can use the new package names, but changing existing packages is just breaking changes for the sake of breaking things with no real benefit. I hope

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Keith Suderman
+1 for changing Maven coordinates. -1 for changing package names. Sure, new code can use the new package names, but changing existing packages is just breaking changes for the sake of breaking things with no real benefit. I hope the Groovy team tries to break as little as possible to avoid th

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Jochen Theodorou
On 27.03.2017 20:08, Winnebeck, Jason wrote: The key thing in my mind is that you can't make a change that breaks 100% of libraries at one time without fracturing the community or at least introducing a major hindrance to upgrade that will mean maintaining 2.x series for a very long time. Even if

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
winder.org.uk] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 1:29 PM To: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward On Mon, 2017-03-27 at 12:47 -0400, Gerald Wiltse wrote: > […] > Specifically, reaching out to the Python maintainers for guidance.  In > hindsight, someone deeply invo

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Russel Winder
On Mon, 2017-03-27 at 12:47 -0400, Gerald Wiltse wrote: > […] > Specifically, reaching out to the Python maintainers for > guidance.  In > hindsight, someone deeply involved usually has a very clear vision of > "What > we should have done instead was...".  It would be a major missed > opportunity

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Gerald Wiltse
PM, Daniel Sun wrote: > > > The two are independent. I suggest changing both at the same time would > be the right thing to do. > > Agreed! > > > Cheers, > Daniel.Sun > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://groovy.329449.n5. > nabble.com/Mav

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Daniel Sun
> The two are independent. I suggest changing both at the same time would be the right thing to do. Agreed! Cheers, Daniel.Sun -- View this message in context: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Maven-coordinates-going-forward-tp5739395p5739409.html Sent from the Groovy Users mailing l

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Schalk Cronjé
On 27/03/2017 16:58, David Clark wrote: Will this also change the package names to org.apache.groovy or will those remain org.codehaus.groovy? I think that would be a good idea. -- Schalk W. Cronjé Twitter / Ello / Toeter : @ysb33r

RE: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Winnebeck, Jason
AM To: users@groovy.apache.org Subject: Re: Maven coordinates going forward On Mon, 2017-03-27 at 09:58 -0500, David Clark wrote: > Will this also change the package names to org.apache.groovy or will > those remain org.codehaus.groovy? > The two are independent. I suggest changing bo

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Russel Winder
On Mon, 2017-03-27 at 09:58 -0500, David Clark wrote: > Will this also change the package names to org.apache.groovy or will > those > remain org.codehaus.groovy? > The two are independent. I suggest changing both at the same time would be the right thing to do. -- Russel. =

Re: Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread David Clark
Will this also change the package names to org.apache.groovy or will those remain org.codehaus.groovy? On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Paul King wrote: > Hi, it's still a little while away but we'll soon begin the work on > what will be called Groovy 3 or Groovy 4 - the exact version number is

Maven coordinates going forward

2017-03-27 Thread Paul King
Hi, it's still a little while away but we'll soon begin the work on what will be called Groovy 3 or Groovy 4 - the exact version number is potentially up for further debate depending on how other upcoming Parrot back port work pans out but we are not asking for feedback on that right now. This new