On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
>
> Ian: can you make nested elements non-conforming so that
> validators will flag it? This would be helpful regardless of the
> fallback discussion.
Done.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hix
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
>
> There's actually a fairly major related problem here. We hide the
> fallback content by treating it as display:none. Currently Gecko has a
> huge bug where a display:none plugin does not load/run. This works out
> well for the video fallback cas
There were some proposals to change 's fallback model to allow
markup to be used as an alternative to a video stream, so that once the
various alternative videos had been tried, the user agent would make
act as a regular display:block element and no longer act as a
video viewport.
I haven't
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 3:43 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan
> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>>>
>>> We can do what's described above for videos and
On Jul 14, 2009, at 3:43 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan > wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking
wrote:
We can do what's described above for videos and audios too (i.e. walk
parent chain etc).
We can hack something in, but wh
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Simon Pieters wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:51:42 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
> wrote:
>
>> How do y'all currently handle content in a context that
>> allows scripts? What if there was a or in the
>> ?
>
> is parsed as a CDATA element in the HTML parser when scrip
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:51:42 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
How do y'all currently handle content in a context that
allows scripts? What if there was a or in the
?
is parsed as a CDATA element in the HTML parser when scripting
is enabled. Any tags would be interpreted as text.
This i
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:32:44 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
> wrote:
>> elements, change step 3 so that whenever any of those
>> conditions are met, if the has @fallback the algorithm aborts
>> immediately and shows the fallback content, otherwi
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 5:05 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>
>> For the current model, note that all the text says is "should not show
>> this content to the user". While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't
>> seem to indicate that the
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:46:08 +0200, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
Anything that can cause the element to switch back and forth between
displaying fallback and video is a no-go, that would cause a race
condition for if plugins/images in the fallback content. If they have
ev
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>
>> We can do what's described above for videos and audios too (i.e. walk
>> parent chain etc).
>>
>
> We can hack something in, but what about dynamic DOM changes? IFRAME loads?
>
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> We can do what's described above for videos and audios too (i.e. walk
> parent chain etc).
>
We can hack something in, but what about dynamic DOM changes? IFRAME loads?
etc
Rob
--
"He was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed fo
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>
>> For the current model, note that all the text says is "should not show
>> this content to the user". While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't
>> seem to indicate that the
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> For the current model, note that all the text says is "should not show this
> content to the user". While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't seem
> to indicate that the content's DOM should not exist, for example. In Gecko,
> at leas
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
Anything that can cause the element to switch back and forth between
displaying fallback and video is a no-go, that would cause a race
condition for if plugins/images in the fallback content. If they have
event handlers the results will get ugly fast:
The an
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:28:41 +0200, Jonas Sicking wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Philip Jägenstedt
wrote:
The design you describe is what tried to do, and it proved
to be
extremely problematic in practice -- and that was without another
built-in
fallback mechanism to complicate ma
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:23:47 -0400, Michael A. Puls II
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:01:26 -0400, Philip Jägenstedt
wrote:
Does audio also have fallback content?
With , you can set its display to 'none' and the audio will still
play. However, if its display is set to 'none' and the e
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:32:44 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Philip Jägenstedt
wrote:
I thought you meant
fallback content here
I would prefer if fallback content and source elements weren't mixed on
the
same level, but maybe that's just me.
Eh,
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
> This way even incremental rendering of the fallback contents would
> work fine. The only case that's weird is markup like:
>
>
> lots and lots of fallback here
>
>
>
> There is a risk that content would be displayed, and then switch to
>
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
> I thought you meant
>
>
>
> fallback content here
>
>
>
> I would prefer if fallback content and source elements weren't mixed on the
> same level, but maybe that's just me.
Eh, fallback content for non- browsers is already there
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
>>> The design you describe is what tried to do, and it proved to be
>>> extremely problematic in practice -- and that was without another
>>> built-in
>>> fallback mechanism to complicate matters.
>>
>> While has had a very poor implement
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:01:26 -0400, Philip Jägenstedt
wrote:
Does audio also have fallback content?
With , you can set its display to 'none' and the audio will still
play. However, if its display is set to 'none' and the element were to
fall back to a child object element that loads a p
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:28:45 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Philip Jägenstedt
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of t
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>>>
>>> Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since that
>>>
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since
that
waits for new source elements indefinitely, when exactly would you
decide to
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
> Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
>>
>> It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since that
>> waits for new source elements indefinitely, when exactly would you decide to
>> switch to fallback content? Bad solutions include specia
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since that
waits for new source elements indefinitely, when exactly would you
decide to switch to fallback content? Bad solutions include
special-casing static markup and/or (falsely) assuming that scripts wi
2009/7/13 Jeff Walden :
> On 12.7.09 23:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
>> If people really want to push
>> Apple into supporting Theora, the best way to do it would be to just keep
>> using it as if it was the common codec, and _not_ provide another fallback
>> for-supporting UAs -- then things would work
2009/7/13 Ian Hickson :
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jeff Walden wrote:
>> And if a site wants to publish H.264-only with Flash or QuickTime as the
>> fallback, they have to use scripting to make it work in Firefox.
>
> We presumably don't want to make the use of uncumbered codecs easier.
I agree. Moreo
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:14:21 +0200, Jonas Sicking wrote:
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>>
>> Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an (to use
flash
>> or java) or a as fallback?
>
> Then you do it with script.
>
> The
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an (to use flash
>> >> or java) or a as fallback?
>> >
>> > Then you do it with script.
>> >
>> > The design is based around the assumption that
On 12.7.09 23:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
If people really want to push
Apple into supporting Theora, the best way to do it would be to just keep
using it as if it was the common codec, and _not_ provide another fallback
for-supporting UAs -- then things would work fine it non--
supporting UAs like IE
On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design of from the ground up is based on the idea that in
browsers that support the element, the API will be used. If we
change this
assumption, then the entire design of the element would have to be
reconsidered -- in particular, I think
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence
> somewhere like:
>
>| Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different
>| codecs for different user agents.
That section no longer exists.
On Tue,
On Jul 11, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
Not really, at some point well before then the argument will shift to
a newer clearly superior to H.264 encumbered format. I would expect
that H.264 would spend a period of time as a non-consideration by
almost everyone since it would be inf
On 11.7.09 12:54, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
...snip...
Precisely.
Jeff
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>
> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
>
>> On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
>>>
>>> The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually find a
>>> common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in supporti
On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually
find a
common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in supporting UAs.
So has anyone ever actually pointed out the elephant in the ro
On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually find a
common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in supporting UAs.
So has anyone ever actually pointed out the elephant in the room here, that we might
never do so? I can't remembe
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>> Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an (to use flash or
>> java) or a as fallback?
>
> Then you do it with script.
>
> The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually find
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
>
> 1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
> support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
> display the fallback
Media queries can be done the same way as for images. Similarly, the server
can choose to serve a localized version of any resource whatsoever. These
customizations should not be put into VIDEO because their scope is wider.
IMHO,
Chris
At 18:12 +0200 16/06/09, Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
Chris
but there are media queries, and I have posted a couple of times that
we should consi
Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
> The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
> alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
> element.
If the browser decides that a video is too high resolution and cannot be
played on this system, then why can't it f
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
Chris
>> Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence
>> somewhere like:
>> Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different codecs for
>> different user agents.
Could multiple source elements also be used to provide different bit-rate
sources (or even alter
jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Okay. Thanks.
>
> Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence somewhere
> like:
>
> Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different codecs for
> different user agents.
Not just different codecs. Different bitra
Jr.
> Subject: Re: [whatwg] HTML 5 video tag questions
> To: "Chris Double"
> Cc: whatwg@lists.whatwg.org, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com
> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 6:55 AM
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:49 AM,
> Chris Double
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM,
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Chris Double wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>>
>> (That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with nesting
>> s, it's just unnecessary.)
>
> This won't work since fallback content is not displayed unless
> is not supported.
Da
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>
> (That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with nesting
> s, it's just unnecessary.)
This won't work since fallback content is not displayed unless
is not supported.
Chris.
--
http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:46 PM, wrote:
>
> 1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
> support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
> display the fallback content in that case, and if so, can a video tag be put
> inside another video tag?
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Simon Pieters wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:27:18 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, wrote:
>>>
>>> I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
>>> 1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:27:18 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, wrote:
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
support the particular video codec that the video fil
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, wrote:
>
> I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
> 1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
> support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
> display the fallback content in that c
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not support
the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it display the
fallback content in that case, and if so, can a video tag be put inside anot
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