Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
I just hate thinking of GM arriving at congress with their hats in their hands stepping out from their private jets. I mean for real? A On Wed, November 19, 2008 3:25 pm, J.C. wrote: On 18 November 2008, Dan Sicko wrote: I just want to ask the question -- do you think the banks that were bailed out made better business decisions than the Big 3 over the last decade? I don't think either should have been bailed out. It even was a one issue election, based on the banking bailout, for me. (Which meant I only voted AGAINST one incumbent.) -- San Francisco Bay Guardian's Readers Choice Award Winner: Best Radio DJ: http://www.sfbg.com/promo/pollpositions.php AIM: jckzsu (or kzsudj during my show.) Opinions are my own only, and do not necessarily represent those of KZSU Radio or Stanford University. (or words to that effect.)
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Maybe it is time for 'change' On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just hate thinking of GM arriving at congress with their hats in their hands stepping out from their private jets. I mean for real? A On Wed, November 19, 2008 3:25 pm, J.C. wrote: On 18 November 2008, Dan Sicko wrote: I just want to ask the question -- do you think the banks that were bailed out made better business decisions than the Big 3 over the last decade? I don't think either should have been bailed out. It even was a one issue election, based on the banking bailout, for me. (Which meant I only voted AGAINST one incumbent.) -- San Francisco Bay Guardian's Readers Choice Award Winner: Best Radio DJ: http://www.sfbg.com/promo/pollpositions.php AIM: jckzsu (or kzsudj during my show.) Opinions are my own only, and do not necessarily represent those of KZSU Radio or Stanford University. (or words to that effect.) -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
The deeper questions are: If you don't bail out the big american banks, will the financial system collapse? If you don't bail out the american auto makers, will the auto industry collapse? Yes. No. On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:08 AM, Dan Sicko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just want to ask the question -- do you think the banks that were bailed out made better business decisions than the Big 3 over the last decade? -d On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:39 PM, theREAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, but I don't have to. I worked there for 31 years - 28 of it right down on the assembly line. I know enough to say with authority that nobody made that kind of cash unless he or she worked some hefty overtime hours. On the 40 hours that I got most of the time, I pulled in right around 40k a year. Anyone who says anything else (and as I retied an International UAW-GM rep, I have some knowledge here) about the average guy on the line doing a normal work week is full of BS. I've read many an article which inflated our wages, our benefits, our time off, and what we made while laid off which spun some pretty tall tales. I'm not saying it wasn't a good paying job with excellent benefits. I'm saying don't believe everything you read about a job most people simply would not do (I'm talking the assembly line here). It can be an a$$kickingly hard place to work, and the jobs which aren't are few and far between these days. jeff Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired? -- - Dan Sicko Editor, Moodmat www.moodmat.com -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
The deeper questions are: If you don't bail out the big american banks, will the financial system collapse? If you don't bail out the american auto makers, will the auto industry collapse? Yes. No. And you know this how? Too bad people with so much clarity of vision haven't been in charge of things - oh, wait. They have been. Not only is it likely the industry will collapse, it's importance to the infrastructure of the national economy runs deeper than your apparent understanding. I'm not arguing here - obviously, you have the answers all neatly bundled. jeff
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Are you talking net or gross? My friend started working for GM around 2000 and his hourly wage was around $18-$20 and I was jealous at the time. FTR, I am not anti GM or Ford, I just refuse to buy their cars as I got tired of spending time/money on fixing them. Plus, the service at my last Ford dealership was outright terrible. This collapse, if it happens, will be tragic. Very sad. Poor business models don't have much longevity. When did Ford or GM start to offer hybrids? Last year? It's not a secret that fossil fuels are limited in quantity. Also, I think the financial sector has made just as many bad decisions as the automakers have. - Original Message From: theREAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:39:39 PM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under No, but I don't have to. I worked there for 31 years - 28 of it right down on the assembly line. I know enough to say with authority that nobody made that kind of cash unless he or she worked some hefty overtime hours. On the 40 hours that I got most of the time, I pulled in right around 40k a year. Anyone who says anything else (and as I retied an International UAW-GM rep, I have some knowledge here) about the average guy on the line doing a normal work week is full of BS. I've read many an article which inflated our wages, our benefits, our time off, and what we made while laid off which spun some pretty tall tales. I'm not saying it wasn't a good paying job with excellent benefits. I'm saying don't believe everything you read about a job most people simply would not do (I'm talking the assembly line here). It can be an a$$kickingly hard place to work, and the jobs which aren't are few and far between these days. jeff Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired?
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Are you talking net or gross? My friend started working for GM around 2000 and his hourly wage was around $18-$20 and I was jealous at the time. Net, of course. And please don't take my remarks as being in support of SUV's in general or stupid mfg/marketing decisions made by the big 3. I'm not. Something HAS to change in their business models. My point is that I believe there is a general ignorance concerning the ripple effects if we let them slide into the toity. Much more will follow if that happens - and it will take much more time and $ to fix it. j
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Correction - I meant gross. W/o overtime, I pulled in between 40-45 k per year. j theREAL wrote: Are you talking net or gross? My friend started working for GM around 2000 and his hourly wage was around $18-$20 and I was jealous at the time. Net, of course. And please don't take my remarks as being in support of SUV's in general or stupid mfg/marketing decisions made by the big 3. I'm not. Something HAS to change in their business models. My point is that I believe there is a general ignorance concerning the ripple effects if we let them slide into the toity. Much more will follow if that happens - and it will take much more time and $ to fix it. j
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired? - Original Message From: Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED]; list 313 313@hyperreal.org; Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:50:06 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under If you don't pay executives they will go run other companies who will. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a few months ago (in May) GM put Rick Wagoner's salary back up to $2.2 million taking him off his self-imposed pay cut and now he wants a government bail-out? He'll do perfectly fine with or without one. He wants to save his company? Make him, and all of GMs top executives, pay for it. the company is a complete failure because of personal greed MEK Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 10:37:11 AM: As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Joel Gajewski wrote: As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their business plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I'm not from Detroit, so Detroiters, feel free to tell me to STFU. But I do have this observation to make: I just came back from a 2 1/2 week trek to Tanzania Zanzibar. Discounting the usual big Land Rover and Land Cruiser vehicles that are the staples of the safari tour co.'s, when it comes to passenger cars and non-commercial vehicles, I'd say that at least 95% of the total vehicles I saw in that category in the country were Japanese. I don't recall seeing a single GM or Ford vehicle there at all. While being driven to my hotel in Dar es Salaam, we fell in behind a vehicle from the American Embassy. It was a (consumer) Land Cruiser. Oh the irony. It seems so simple to fix - the Big 3 should switch to making good, cheap (so a lot of the population can afford it) reliable small cars that get good gas mileage and that're easy to fix, and do this globally so that an ecosystem can spring up around it and ensure that people can get them fixed easily if they have problems. But at the same time, discounting their world-wide presence for a moment, the US automakers are at the whims of the American consumer. If suddenly tomorrow GM and Ford and Chrysler sent reps to Tanzania and discovered the Japanese blanket coverage there and tried to emulate it, what if consumers back home won't buy them? What if, now that gas is down (to $2.65 for Premium out here in LA; undoubtedly less in other places, and obviously less than that for Regular) a bit, the usual American penchant for overconsumption kicks back in and they decide they want their guzzling SUVs and huge trucks again? The Big 3 are like a lumbering beast, unable to turn on a dime and do the right thing for the environment and the economy, but it's the American buying public that are equally to blame. I don't have an answer to their ills - it seems like a classic Catch-22. I wish I did - for the sake of all my Detroit friends whose livelihoods are affected either directly or indirectly by the Auto Industry. And so that people can go back to going to shows - and support Detroit's music scene. - Greg
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
No, but I don't have to. I worked there for 31 years - 28 of it right down on the assembly line. I know enough to say with authority that nobody made that kind of cash unless he or she worked some hefty overtime hours. On the 40 hours that I got most of the time, I pulled in right around 40k a year. Anyone who says anything else (and as I retied an International UAW-GM rep, I have some knowledge here) about the average guy on the line doing a normal work week is full of BS. I've read many an article which inflated our wages, our benefits, our time off, and what we made while laid off which spun some pretty tall tales. I'm not saying it wasn't a good paying job with excellent benefits. I'm saying don't believe everything you read about a job most people simply would not do (I'm talking the assembly line here). It can be an a$$kickingly hard place to work, and the jobs which aren't are few and far between these days. jeff Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired?
RE: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
Yep, that was me. I wouldn't enter a cubicle for less than $100. -Original Message- From: Joel Gajewski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:05 AM To: Michael Kuszynski Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired? - Original Message From: Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED]; list 313 313@hyperreal.org; Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:50:06 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under If you don't pay executives they will go run other companies who will. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a few months ago (in May) GM put Rick Wagoner's salary back up to $2.2 million taking him off his self-imposed pay cut and now he wants a government bail-out? He'll do perfectly fine with or without one. He wants to save his company? Make him, and all of GMs top executives, pay for it. the company is a complete failure because of personal greed MEK Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 10:37:11 AM: As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 11/17/2008 8:48 AM
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
I just want to ask the question -- do you think the banks that were bailed out made better business decisions than the Big 3 over the last decade? -d On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:39 PM, theREAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, but I don't have to. I worked there for 31 years - 28 of it right down on the assembly line. I know enough to say with authority that nobody made that kind of cash unless he or she worked some hefty overtime hours. On the 40 hours that I got most of the time, I pulled in right around 40k a year. Anyone who says anything else (and as I retied an International UAW-GM rep, I have some knowledge here) about the average guy on the line doing a normal work week is full of BS. I've read many an article which inflated our wages, our benefits, our time off, and what we made while laid off which spun some pretty tall tales. I'm not saying it wasn't a good paying job with excellent benefits. I'm saying don't believe everything you read about a job most people simply would not do (I'm talking the assembly line here). It can be an a$$kickingly hard place to work, and the jobs which aren't are few and far between these days. jeff Anyone remeber the article in the Free Press about the janitor at GM making 60 or 70k a year when he retired? -- - Dan Sicko Editor, Moodmat www.moodmat.com
(313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
a few months ago (in May) GM put Rick Wagoner's salary back up to $2.2 million taking him off his self-imposed pay cut and now he wants a government bail-out? He'll do perfectly fine with or without one. He wants to save his company? Make him, and all of GMs top executives, pay for it. the company is a complete failure because of personal greed MEK Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 10:37:11 AM: As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
If you don't pay executives they will go run other companies who will. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a few months ago (in May) GM put Rick Wagoner's salary back up to $2.2 million taking him off his self-imposed pay cut and now he wants a government bail-out? He'll do perfectly fine with or without one. He wants to save his company? Make him, and all of GMs top executives, pay for it. the company is a complete failure because of personal greed MEK Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 10:37:11 AM: As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:50, Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you don't pay executives they will go run other companies who will. Not always a bad thing. -- matt kane's brain techno radio at: http://hydrogenproject.com http://wzbc.org capoeira in boston http://capoeirageraisusa.com aim - mkbatwerk ; y! - mkb218 ; gtalk - mkb.dirtyorg
Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
That's for the shareholder's and board of directors to decide, and if it comes to it, the federal government which becomes a stakeholder if they provide a capital injection in exchange for preferred shares through the TARP program (which it doesn't look like it will happen). And if the board of directors and shareholders like whoever is running it, then I think it's up to them to decide how to mismanage the company, because it's owned by these stakeholders, not an outraged populist regime. Anyways, my $.02 is done here because it's not related to techno. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Matt Kane's Brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:50, Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you don't pay executives they will go run other companies who will. Not always a bad thing. -- matt kane's brain techno radio at: http://hydrogenproject.com http://wzbc.org capoeira in boston http://capoeirageraisusa.com aim - mkbatwerk ; y! - mkb218 ; gtalk - mkb.dirtyorg -- --- Michael Kuszynski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.planerecordings.com New York, NY
RE: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under
The Fiat Uno was a pretty good car. It's being re-released in 2008, I think by GM, based on a Ford Ka chassis though. Italians do it better eh? -Original Message- From: Joel Gajewski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 5:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Martin Dust Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under As sad as it is for life in Detroit, the US auto industry has not exactly learned any lessons from the 70's/80's when foreign cars started picking up in terms of sales. Plus, they neglect the American market in terms of style, performance and most importantly quality. They should have known that their busines plans based on large trucks and SUV's in the 1990's would only last for so long. I have known far too many people that work in the industry and feel that they are owed something and have very little pride in their work, which is a huge cause in the lack of quality. I had two sides of my family working for Ford or Chrysler (pre Daimler) and sadly this is really what I saw growing up. I had two Chyslers and one Ford, none of which made it past 100k. Well, the Ford I dumped with 36k because it was already having problems. This might not be a popular view, but it is my honest opinion and it pains me to say it as I love Detroit and all of my family there. It's sad really. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44:31 AM Subject: Re: (313) Business Automotive industry 'If General Motors were to lose out, I think Detroit would go under We're not recyclers, he said of his countrymen. We're consumers of products. the problem in a nutshell MEK Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/14/2008 09:06:49 AM: grim reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/nov/14/ford-chrysler-general-motors m No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.3/1786 - Release Date: 11/14/2008 1:36 PM
