New 4D Forums

2020-05-05 Thread Add Komoncharoensiri via 4D_Tech 
Hi iNUG and 4D Forums contributors,

Recently we launched a new 4D Forums website at https://discuss.4d.com.  This 
new site is dedicated to all 4D technical discussions and is being heavily 
monitored by 4D’s worldwide technical team. For those who have participated in 
discussions on forums.4d.com, your new place to go for all future technical 
discussions is https://discuss.4d.com. We will continue to keep forums.4d.com 
running but as read-only.

For all iNUG contributors, we would like to invite to you to give this new 
forum a try. In addition to allowing for better interaction with your fellow 4D 
developers and 4D’s technical team, there are many options for tracking and 
monitoring discussions that are relevant to you.

Thank you all for your continuing contribution to our 4D community.

Best Regards,
Add Komoncharoensiri
Director of Technical Services
San Jose, CA.

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Re: Object notation replacement for use of Self in a script

2020-05-05 Thread James Crate via 4D_Tech 
You are correct and I have used it, I just forgot even though I was looking at 
the documentation while writing that email. 

Jim Crate

> On May 5, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Doesn’t the option until/while syntax fit the bill for early exit? I agree an 
> automatically-maintained index would be nice, though.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On 5 May 2020, at 19:13, James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> In 4D, when enumerating collections or entity selections, about half the 
>> time I want an index for progress calculation, and other times I have to use 
>> the indexed for loop because I want to early exit. 
>> 
>> For other languages, providing the index on enumeration varies by language 
>> and enumeration construct, but most have an enumeration construct that 
>> provides an index. Almost all support break.
>> 
>> So 4D’s implementation could be considered more redundant, less 
>> feature-complete. If an index were provided instead of start/end, and you 
>> could set that index to .length to exit the loop, we’d pretty much never 
>> have to use an indexed loop for a collection or entity selection.
>> 
>> Jim Crate
> 
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Re: Re: iNUG Messages ― Is it time for it to be more than just 'plain text' ???

2020-05-05 Thread Mike Kerner via 4D_Tech 
this really isn't.  at all.  even a little bit.

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 9:20 AM Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On May 2, 2020, at 12:43, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On May 2, 2020, at 2:00 PM, Tom Benedict wrote:
> >
> > >I say we join the 20th century and move everything to the new forums.
> Shutdown this list on 1 Jun 2020 and >redirect any posts to the new forums.
>
> >Actually Tom, the iNUG is the 20th century. 20th century dates are Jan 1,
> 1901 to Dec 31, 2000. We want to
> >move to the 21st century!  
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I was trying to make the ironic point that we are likely that last tech
> group on earth to move to a rich text online forum. Everyone else made the
> move in the last century, which is now over two decades ago.
>
> >See you all over at https://discuss.4d.com 
>
> I’m on my way!!
>
> Tom
>
> > On May 2, 2020, at 12:43, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On May 2, 2020, at 2:00 PM, Tom Benedict wrote:
> >
> >> I say we join the 20th century and move everything to the new forums.
> Shutdown this list on 1 Jun 2020 and redirect any posts to the new forums.
> >
> > Actually Tom, the iNUG is the 20th century. 20th century dates are Jan
> 1, 1901 to Dec 31, 2000. We want to move to the 21st century!  
> >
> > The new 4D Forums certainly look a whole lot nicer than plain text
> emails. And you hav a lot of formatting options for posts so that’s good.
> >
> > And you can attach files and images to posts. That in and of itself
> should be the nail the this coffin we call the iNUG email list.
> >
> > I agree with you Tom, time to put a fork in this thing. It's done.
> Remove it from the grill.
> >
> > We can all make the iNUG die by just never posting another thing here
> again. Those that MUST continue to live by the iNUG email, can stay. It can
> linger with those diehard users for as long as they find it valuable. I
> guess. So no need to officially kill the iNUG, just let it naturally wither
> and die.
> >
> > I’ll commit to it. This is my last post to the iNUG.
> >
> > See you all over at https://discuss.4d.com
> >
> > Tim
> >
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Object notation replacement for use of Self in a script

2020-05-05 Thread Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech 
Doesn’t the option until/while syntax fit the bill for early exit? I agree an 
automatically-maintained index would be nice, though.

Jeremy

> On 5 May 2020, at 19:13, James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> In 4D, when enumerating collections or entity selections, about half the time 
> I want an index for progress calculation, and other times I have to use the 
> indexed for loop because I want to early exit. 
> 
> For other languages, providing the index on enumeration varies by language 
> and enumeration construct, but most have an enumeration construct that 
> provides an index. Almost all support break.
> 
> So 4D’s implementation could be considered more redundant, less 
> feature-complete. If an index were provided instead of start/end, and you 
> could set that index to .length to exit the loop, we’d pretty much never have 
> to use an indexed loop for a collection or entity selection.
> 
> Jim Crate

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Re: Object notation replacement for use of Self in a script

2020-05-05 Thread James Crate via 4D_Tech 
On May 2, 2020, at 1:10 AM, Aparajita Fishman via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Don’t be so quick to complain; you finally got ‘for each’ 10 years after
>> the rest of the world (including Active4D).”
>> Good point. So…you’re thinking that the feature set is complete?
> 
> Absolutely. In fact it is more complete than most implementations, you can 
> specify and begin and end index for ordered collections.

Since both collection and entity selections support .slice(), I’ve wondered why 
the begin/end index parameters exist on For each. 

>> it’s funny that we have such a handy looping construct yet I have write code 
>> to init and update my own index.
> 
> If you need an index in a ‘for each’ loop, you should actually be using an 
> indexed ‘for’ loop. That’s the point of having ‘for each’ separate from 
> ‘for’: 90% of the time you don’t need the index and ‘for each’ is more 
> concise, but when you need an index a for loop increments it for you.

In 4D, when enumerating collections or entity selections, about half the time I 
want an index for progress calculation, and other times I have to use the 
indexed for loop because I want to early exit. 

For other languages, providing the index on enumeration varies by language and 
enumeration construct, but most have an enumeration construct that provides an 
index. Almost all support break.

So 4D’s implementation could be considered more redundant, less 
feature-complete. If an index were provided instead of start/end, and you could 
set that index to .length to exit the loop, we’d pretty much never have to use 
an indexed loop for a collection or entity selection.

Jim Crate

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Re: Object notation replacement for use of Self in a script — v18

2020-05-05 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
Jim:

"This is pretty much the same way you enumerate in reverse order in the
other languages I use.”
Thank you for posting that.

I brought this up on the Forum a while back and I even brought it up in a
tech support call but…nada.

Interesting thread -
https://forums.4d.com/Post/EN/34415270/1/34415271#34415271

A sage suggesting .reverse, as you have, and another steering the poster
toward a For loop.

Reminds me of:
“Less filling!
"Tastes great!”

I’ll go with .reverse

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 5:41 PM James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 9:36 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Another WTF is that you can’t iterate from the end of a collection to the
> > start. You can reorder the collection and then run a For each loop but
> > that’s a complete kludge.
>
> For each ($item;$collection.reverse())
>   // do some stuff
> End for each
>
> This is pretty much the same way you enumerate in reverse order in the
> other languages I use.
>
> Jim Crate
>
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Re: Object notation replacement for use of Self in a script

2020-05-05 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
Aparajita:

"Absolutely. In fact it is more complete than most implementations, you can
specify and begin and end index for ordered collections.”
Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to 4D implementation, not A4D.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:10 PM Aparajita Fishman via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> > "Don’t be so quick to complain; you finally got ‘for each’ 10 years after
> > the rest of the world (including Active4D).”
> > Good point. So…you’re thinking that the feature set is complete?
>
> Absolutely. In fact it is more complete than most implementations, you can
> specify and begin and end index for ordered collections.
>
>
> > "I don’t know of a single language (and I have used at least 6) where
> ‘for
> > each’ is reversible.”
> > This could be 4D’s chance to be a trendsetter!
>
> I don’t think it's worth it. Iterating in reverse is not a common
> operation.
>
>
> > it’s funny that we have such a handy looping construct yet I have write
> > code to init and update my own index.
>
> If you need an index in a ‘for each’ loop, you should actually be using an
> indexed ‘for’ loop. That’s the point of having ‘for each’ separate from
> ‘for’: 90% of the time you don’t need the index and ‘for each’ is more
> concise, but when you need an index a for loop increments it for you.
>
> - Aparajita
>
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