Re: [9fans] GSOC proposal
2009/3/28 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com: Just a suggestion, A good forth system using acme, probably based on fgb's 4th. The goal is to conquer the Seaforth chip. I know the dev kit is US$500 but their compiler and simulator, written in forth, doesn't need hardware. And at least two 9fans have a kit. brucee Would such a project be interesting for this year gsoc? Is any mentor interested in Forth? I really think acme would make a great environment for Forth development. I have not used 4th except to play a bit with it, but I have spent the last months porting the Ngaro VM to Go [1], which is used to run retroForth [2] images, and I think that could be a good starting point too. [1] http://hg.4l77.com/gonga/ [2] http://retroforth.org PS: I'm CCing this to the GSoC list, but since the original message appeared here I'm replying to 9fans too. -- - yiyus || JGL . 4l77.com
Re: [9fans] native install
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:35:39PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: could you define doesn't work? any errors? - erik When I boot plan 9, the message `probing ether' is printed and then `auto neg something' is printed a second or two after that. I can find out what the actual message is later. -- I am a man who does not exist for others. pgpzqFFNNLxhk.pgp Description: PGP signature
[9fans] Man pages for add-ons
Hello, Since I can finally find some time here and there, I'm back to TeX and al. From namespace(4), the man pages are supposed to be under /sys/man. What is the canonical way for added (opt, pkg ?) stuff. Letting the user adapt his profile to bind the added stuff he wants appearing in his namespace? More generally, what is the policy for add-ons? Providing rc(1) fragments to bind the added stuff? Cheers, -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] native install
When I boot plan 9, the message `probing ether' is printed and then `auto neg something' is printed a second or two after that. I can find out what the actual message is later. the output of /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/sosether would be useful. - erik
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
From namespace(4), the man pages are supposed to be under /sys/man. the old tex put the man pages (both of them) in /sys/man/1pub. one could just as easily put them in /sys/man/1. What is the canonical way for added (opt, pkg ?) stuff. Letting the user adapt his profile to bind the added stuff he wants appearing in his namespace? i hope we don't reinvent the 1000 bin directories of unix. it's all so cute having /bin /usr/bin /sbin /usr/sbin /usr/local/bin /opt/$fu/bin. but ever so useless. i have been on systems where the fact that /usr/yp/bin (or whatever it was) wasn't in the default path was used as a security mechanism. but that points to the real problem. it's just too archane an alchemy for users to remember. i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. - erik
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
As far as packaging stuff up look at fgb's contrib system, bootstratp your self into the delightful world of 3rd party packages by typing: 9fs sources /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib contrib/gui man contrib will tell you about the tools and how to create packages of your own. I have a text contrib package on there but I will remove it when you have your updated release working. -Steve
[9fans] quote o' the day
http://lwn.net/Articles/378219/ [...] anything which combines tricky locking and 30-line preprocessor macros is going to raise eyebrows. But the core concept here is simple: [...] oh, really? - erik
Re: [9fans] native install
When I boot plan 9, the message `probing ether' is printed and then `auto neg something' is printed a second or two after that. I can find out what the actual message is later. If the message is printed by the kernel rather than 9load you can find it by typing: cat /dev/kmesg -Steve
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On 25/03/2010 14:08, erik quanstrom wrote: http://lwn.net/Articles/378219/ [...] anything which combines tricky locking and 30-line preprocessor macros is going to raise eyebrows. But the core concept here is simple: [...] oh, really? - erik Trying to acquire one lock per CPU will work just dandy. One such case - the target for this new lock - is vfsmount_lock, which is required (for read access) in pathname lookup operations. Lookups are frequent events, and are clearly performance-critical. On the other hand, write access is only needed when filesystems are being mounted or unmounted - a much rarer occurrence. So a brlock is a good fit here, and one small piece (out of many) of the VFS scalability puzzle has been put into place. bye bye private Linux namespaces, it wasn't even nice knowing you
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 09:37:15AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. I'm inclined to this kind of stuff too, since it's easy to rm -fr if everything is simply in the same place. -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] native install
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 09:25:19AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: the output of /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/sosether would be useful. - erik pci 0.4.0: net 02.00.00 1039/0900 4 0:1801 256 1:e4003000 4096 interfaces kmesg: Plan 9 E820: 0009f400 memory E820: 0009f400 000a reserved E820: 000dc000 0010 reserved E820: 0010 0ddf memory E820: 0ddf 0ddff000 acpi reclaim E820: 0ddff000 0de0 acpi nvs E820: 0de0 0e00 reserved E820: 0e00 1000 reserved E820: fec0 fec1 reserved E820: fee0 fee01000 reserved E820: fff8 1 reserved 126 holes free 00019000 0009f000 548864 0040f000 05ae6000 91058176 91607040 bytes free cpu0: 2191MHz GenuineIntel PentiumIV/Xeon (cpuid: AX 0x0F29 DX 0xBFEBFBFF) ELCR: 06B8 #y0: 2 slot Intel 82365SL: port 0x3E0 irq 5 ns83815: auto neg timed out #u/usb/ep1.0: ohci: port 0xE000 irq 9 #u/usb/ep2.0: ohci: port 0xE0001000 irq 10 #u/usb/ep3.0: ehci: port 0xE0002000 irq 3 222M memory: 91M kernel data, 131M user, 502M swap usbd...usb/disk... root is from (tcp, local)[local!#S/sdC0/fossil]: user[none]: jake time... fossil(#S/sdC0/fossil)...version...time... init: starting /bin/rc The 'ns83815: autneg timed out' was the message being printed. I've also noticed that the man page for plan9.ini(8), it says On the SiS controllers, the Ethernet address is not detected properly; specify it with an ea= attribute. Is ea= supposed to be set to the actual ip address (the man page says physical network adress)? If so that's probably my problem. -- I am a man who does not exist for others. pgpacvEnCTsYf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
I'm inclined to this kind of stuff too, since it's easy to rm -fr if everything is simply in the same place. replica should make such concerns moot. - erik
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 02:07:46PM +, Steve Simon wrote: As far as packaging stuff up look at fgb's contrib system, bootstratp your self into the delightful world of 3rd party packages by typing: 9fs sources /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib contrib/gui man contrib will tell you about the tools and how to create packages of your own. I will look at this. Since I use my own framework (very simple but for cross-compiling), it will probably end in a script and a map (where to put the stuff, with what name, owner and permissions) fgb's contrib compliant. I have a text contrib package on there but I will remove it when you have your updated release working. There is no urge ;) Normally, even LaTeX user's will be able to use this stuff, since it's simply macros --- TeX uses argv[0] to know what format to load; hence latex is not a program, but a hint for what compiled version of the macros to put in memory. But we will need to verify first that the new version delivers what it is supposed to... And the hard part is done---understanding what goes on; putting the translation stuff apart; building libraries for duplicated things etc.---, but I'm still cleaning things and going back to Knuth's books to understand what to keep and what to delete in the change files. With one or two hours per day at maximum, this will still take some weeks (I think). -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] native install
I've also noticed that the man page for plan9.ini(8), it says On the SiS controllers, the Ethernet address is not detected properly; specify it with an ea= attribute. Is ea= supposed to be set to the actual ip address (the man page says physical network adress)? If so that's probably my problem. ea is supposed to be an ethernet address. ethernet addresses have the format ea=112233445566 where 1-6 are *lowercase* hex digits. the first byte 0x80 should be 0. - erik
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. I'm inclined to this kind of stuff too, since it's easy to rm -fr if everything is simply in the same place. I assume you mean /$objtype/bin/tex, this looks a good fit to me too, however if you use contrib then you can just do: contrib/remove tex which will print commands to remove exactly the files that where installed, unless they have changed in which case it will print a commented out command (i.e. if another package overwrote and updated a shared file). -Steve
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
It just keeps getting better: $ hugeadm --create-global-mounts $ hugeadm --pool-pages-max DEFAULT:8G $ hugeadm --set-recommended-min_free_kbytes $ hugeadm --set-recommended-shmmax $ hugeadm --pool-pages-min DEFAULT:2048MB $ hugeadm --pool-pages-max DEFAULT:8192MB In this installment, it was shown that with minimal amounts of additional work, huge pages can be easily used to improve benchmarks. woo hoo! ron
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
Not really related, but I got a good laugh from this. As soon as I opened this email in gmail, the targeted ad changed to Editing xml is difficult. Followed by some stuff about Xopus xml editor, but still. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:56 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: It just keeps getting better:
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On 25/03/2010 17:11, Corey Thomasson wrote: Not really related, but I got a good laugh from this. As soon as I opened this email in gmail, the targeted ad changed to Editing xml is difficult. well that is true, the following snippets are not the same, the second has two more nodes abhi/b/a a bhi/b /a
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:15 PM, maht maht-9f...@maht0x0r.net wrote: On 25/03/2010 17:11, Corey Thomasson wrote: Not really related, but I got a good laugh from this. As soon as I opened this email in gmail, the targeted ad changed to Editing xml is difficult. well that is true, the following snippets are not the same, the second has two more nodes abhi/b/a a bhi/b /a And depending on what parser you're using, you might get the same tree or not! Found out recently, that some parsers very helpfully elide empty TEXT nodes. Robby
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
It's this kind of intellectual ugliness that makes the
teacher in me hang my head in shame. How could
we be managing to produce a whole generation of
programmers who actually buy into that stuff? And
it's not as if it's a fad that's getting better. If anything
it's getting worse. Somehow we've made it laudible
to go to any lengths to avoid writing a line of real
code and to run as far away from hardware as we
can. That and worship at the alter of code reuse
have created a world where if one abstraction is
good, then 432 must be better. If a symbol appears
that's not defined in 17 different places all surrounded
by #ifdef's, then that's not professional. Everyone
is afraid to point out the nudity of the XML monarch
for fear of being branded as one afraid of change.
I humbly extend my apologies for any of this that
might have been promulgated by any of my former
students :(
\end{soapbox}
BLS
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu Mar 25 12:58:22 EDT 2010, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: It just keeps getting better: $ hugeadm --create-global-mounts $ hugeadm --pool-pages-max DEFAULT:8G $ hugeadm --set-recommended-min_free_kbytes $ hugeadm --set-recommended-shmmax $ hugeadm --pool-pages-min DEFAULT:2048MB $ hugeadm --pool-pages-max DEFAULT:8192MB In this installment, it was shown that with minimal amounts of additional work, huge pages can be easily used to improve benchmarks. and, finally $ hugeadm --induce-involuntary-twitching DEFAULTMODE:crazyunixguy \ --involuntary-twitching-random-seed 2269 \ --involuntary-twitching-mean-frequency 1000 milliseconds \ --involuntary-twitching-ready --involundary-twitching-set --go \ --no-i-really-mean-it was it just me, or was the performance improvement underwhelming, considering the downsides and the fact that it was a synthetic benchmark? - erik
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
The efficiency of XML when being processed by computers or humans proves that it's neither machine nor human readable, despite all the advertising. Dave On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Corey Thomasson cthom.li...@gmail.comwrote: Not really related, but I got a good laugh from this. As soon as I opened this email in gmail, the targeted ad changed to Editing xml is difficult. Followed by some stuff about Xopus xml editor, but still. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:56 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: It just keeps getting better:
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:20 -0300, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
It's this kind of intellectual ugliness that makes the
teacher in me hang my head in shame. How could
we be managing to produce a whole generation of
programmers who actually buy into that stuff? And
it's not as if it's a fad that's getting better. If anything
it's getting worse. Somehow we've made it laudible
to go to any lengths to avoid writing a line of real
code and to run as far away from hardware as we
can. That and worship at the alter of code reuse
have created a world where if one abstraction is
good, then 432 must be better. If a symbol appears
that's not defined in 17 different places all surrounded
by #ifdef's, then that's not professional. Everyone
is afraid to point out the nudity of the XML monarch
for fear of being branded as one afraid of change.
I assume you haven't studied human behavior much... sadly we are socially
dependent, we will follow even if we know something is harmful. Look at
fad diets and superstitions.
I always have to laugh at the code reuse crap; I though that was what a
library was. Do modern programmers not know how to create libraries? That
must not be true, there are something like 11 libraries on UNIX that all
do the same stuff, repeated for each new instance of 'stuff'.
Sadly I think this may be the state the computer industry is heading into;
hacks upon hacks, with little logical design. These hackers using
techniques from the 1970's to program machines in the 2000's .. 2010's;
all the while these techniques have decayed and warped to fit the modern
era.
May be I've studied too much history and may be I've studied too much
psychology, but, I think the only way for things to change for the better,
is for what we have now to collapse. I do hope I'm wrong.
I humbly extend my apologies for any of this that
might have been promulgated by any of my former
students :(
\end{soapbox}
BLS
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. Ideal most of the time, but I have this gut feeling that one ought to keep utilities distinct if they are not part of the distribution. At minimum they make it easier when rebuilding the system to remember what one has added. It's easy enough to bind /386/pub to /bin, but it would be nice if there was a firm convention; /386/bin is pretty firm. Judgement call, I guess. ++L
[9fans] pcmcia
i need a second nic on a lenovo T61p that is a combo cpu. i have a few linksys ec2t pcmcia cards; i tried using it (added ether1=type=ec2t to plan9.ini). on some boots it freezes after printing the memory layout; at other times cpu0 exits instead. i found a discussion from 2008 related to the pcirouting error message; i think Erik concluded was due to 9load. is it likely they're related? any ideas? here's part of what's in /dev/kmesg: cpu0: 2196MHz GenuineIntel Xeon5000-series (cpuid: AX 0x06FB DX 0xBFEBFBFF) ELCR: 0C00 pcirouting: Cannot find south bridge PCI.255.31.7 #Y0: Ricoh 476 PCI/Cardbus bridge, F810 intl 10 #l0: i82566: 1000Mbps port 0xFE20 irq 11: 001e371e26dc 2031M memory: 109M kernel data, 1921M user, 2546M swap
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:20 -0300, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote: It's this kind of intellectual ugliness that makes the teacher in me hang my head in shame. How could we be managing to produce a whole generation of programmers who actually buy into that stuff? And ... I assume you haven't studied human behavior much... Not much in the collective. My AI work was focused on learning in individual organisms. sadly we are socially dependent, we will follow even if we know something is harmful. Look at fad diets and superstitions. I have seen that, though I still fail to grasp it. I always have to laugh at the code reuse crap; I though that was what a library was. Yep. I try to put it in perspective in the classroom by saying that we've had code reuse ever since Grace Hopper put a roll of paper tape for the Mark I in a drawer and labled it square root. (Slightly fictionalized, but not too far from reality.) These hackers using techniques from the 1970's to program machines in the 2000's .. 2010's; all the while these techniques have decayed and warped to fit the modern era. I also see the other extreme where trendy seems to be preferred over straighforward. There has to be a balance. We have to keep open minds about new techniques, but we also have to be versed in older techniques so there can be some reasonable judgement about when to apply which. Using the ABC technology (for any of a million values of ABC over the years) because it was written up in some management magazines and some marketing type said you have to or we won't sell any is neither engineering nor science and has no place in Computer Science or the Art of Comptuer Programming. (And for the record, no marketing person I've ever encountered who said something like that had the slightest clue about either the technology or the *market*. It has always amazed me how much the story is different when you bypass marketing and talk to the customer directly.) (And don't get me started on Software Engineering. That's a whole 'nother soapbox I don't have time for today.) May be I've studied too much history and may be I've studied too much psychology, but, I think the only way for things to change for the better, is for what we have now to collapse. I do hope I'm wrong. I hope you are too, but I must admit that I've often had the same thought. It's been observed, even semi-rigorously that the set of programmers falls into a bi-modal distribution with a small group that's about an order of magnitude better than the large group, and very little in between. When you probe into these bizzare techniques, tools, processes, etc, the rationale always seems to boil down to preventing the large, lower calibre group from doing too much damage, and to allow them to have a modicum of productivity. Unfotunately, the tyrany of the majority seems to prevent the examples of the Kens and Dennises of the world from guiding the progress of the art. I have a hard time envisioning how to make it better short of some kind of collapse that quashes the majority. In the mean time, I just try to hide away in a corner and affiliate mostly with the upper node of the distribution. But I should get back to real work. So, I step down from the soapbox again. BLS
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
in similar vein, there's this handful guide on how to make your life really hard in 11 easy steps: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/unix_file_replacement.html make sure you check out the final copy.c linked at the bottom of the page
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
make sure you check out the final copy.c linked at the bottom of the page don't follow this link. it is a trojan that will eat into your brain and turn it into grey goo. ☺ - erik
Re: [9fans] native install
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:43:36AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: I've also noticed that the man page for plan9.ini(8), it says On the SiS controllers, the Ethernet address is not detected properly; specify it with an ea= attribute. Is ea= supposed to be set to the actual ip address (the man page says physical network adress)? If so that's probably my problem. ea is supposed to be an ethernet address. ethernet addresses have the format ea=112233445566 where 1-6 are *lowercase* hex digits. the first byte 0x80 should be 0. - erik Sorry for my ignorance, but how would I find out the ethernet address(es)? -- I am a man who does not exist for others. pgp1KT3XM9U2Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
in similar vein, there's this handful guide on how to make your life really hard in 11 easy steps: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/unix_file_replacement.html make sure you check out the final copy.c linked at the bottom of the page It's a sign of the apocalypse. The configuration of the 6th edition kernel Lions presented was about 10,000 lines of code. This version of cp is nearly 1/4 of that, and the function copy_internal() is over 1000 lines long. I'm clearly not smart enough to function in a world where cp is that complex... Back to real work...again...for real this time...I promise... BLS
Re: [9fans] native install
Is ea= supposed to be set to the actual ip address (the man page says physical network adress)? If so that's probably my problem. ea is supposed to be an ethernet address. ethernet addresses have the format ea=112233445566 where 1-6 are *lowercase* hex digits. the first byte 0x80 should be 0. - erik Sorry for my ignorance, but how would I find out the ethernet address(es)? the hardware is supposed to know it. if it doesn't the hardware is having trouble talking to its eeprom/flash. in this case, you can get by by making one up. though officially, they're allocated in blocks, c.f. etheroui(1), wwnoui(1) — contrib quanstro/oui. the database is in /lib/oui. - erik
Re: [9fans] VIA Rhine II support?
On 24 March 2010 12:24, Federico G. Benavento benave...@gmail.com wrote: the drivers are in /sys/src/9/pc, ethervt6102.c and ethervt6105m.c check the device ID on those to see if they match yours, if they don't it might be an easy fix or a hard fix... On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:50 AM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Searching the net reveled that Stephan got his VIA Rhine II ethernet working a couple of years ago. Where can I find the patch or drivers? As with other things Via, I'd recommend avoiding Rhine chips like the plague. -- I appear to be temporarily using gmail's horrible interface. I apologise for any failure in my part in trying to make it do the right thing with post formatting.
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. Ideal most of the time, but I have this gut feeling that one ought to keep utilities distinct if they are not part of the distribution. At minimum they make it easier when rebuilding the system to remember what one has added. It's easy enough to bind /386/pub to /bin, but it would be nice if there was a firm convention; /386/bin is pretty firm. Bind your own directory on /bin with the creation flag set? I don't see why the package system or package author should choose where to put the files if they can let the user choose for themselves. ++L Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
Re: [9fans] VIA Rhine II support?
As with other things Via, I'd recommend avoiding Rhine chips like the plague. this is not a new buy, but an 8 year old laptop I'm playing with. At least the Rhine chip has better support than Broadcom as far as I can tell. Now *THAT* is company I avoid like a plague...
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
Bind your own directory on /bin with the creation flag set? Nice idea, I like it. I don't see why the package system or package author should choose where to put the files if they can let the user choose for themselves. I guess I'm not leadership material: I keep looking for somebody to lay down rules I don't have a visceral negative reaction to. ++L
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
On Thu Mar 25 15:39:43 EDT 2010, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Bind your own directory on /bin with the creation flag set? Nice idea, I like it. on the other hand, doing this on a per-package basis could quickly lead to chaos. to avoid this a whole set of standards would likely be created on how where you put things. which puts us right back at square one. - erik
Re: [9fans] native install
Sorry for my ignorance, but how would I find out the ethernet address(es)? A long shot, somtimes its printed on the card (PCI or PCMCIA), but othertimes it is not. The important fact is that you must not use the same address as any other device on the same physical network. -Steve
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor near our office. Let's hope they learn. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 7:51 PM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote: in similar vein, there's this handful guide on how to make your life really hard in 11 easy steps: http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/unix_file_replacement.html make sure you check out the final copy.c linked at the bottom of the page It's a sign of the apocalypse. The configuration of the 6th edition kernel Lions presented was about 10,000 lines of code. This version of cp is nearly 1/4 of that, and the function copy_internal() is over 1000 lines long. I'm clearly not smart enough to function in a world where cp is that complex... Back to real work...again...for real this time...I promise... BLS
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:17:30 -0300, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD I'm going to have nightmares tonight... versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c Wait, nevermind :)
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor near our office. Let's hope they learn. You should also add: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:58:30 -0300, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote: As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor near our office. Let's hope they learn. You should also add: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s When assembly is more readable than C... you know you've done something wrong. Oh wait, thats called a 'feature', silly me! Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: [9fans] native install
Someone should put this whole thread on the wiki
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Patrick Kelly kameo76...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:58:30 -0300, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote: As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor near our office. Let's hope they learn. This is especially funny: 398 /* Output a currency symbol if requested (-e). */ 399 400 if (show_ends) 401 *bpout++ = '$'; 402 403 /* Output the newline. */ 404 405 *bpout++ = '\n';
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
403 /* Output the newline. */ 404 405 *bpout++ = '\n'; oddly, for such an obvious comment, it's not exactly what the code does, and somewhat misleading. that code just puts a newline in a buffer and increments a pointer. outputting is elsewhere. - erik
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
You should also add: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s Which returns 1062 lines of HTML+Javascript, completely unreadable in Abaco. The irony is stunning. --lyndon
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
You should also add: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s Which returns 1062 lines of HTML+Javascript, completely unreadable in Abaco. not to spoil the irony, but that works here. it drops indentation, but that hardly qualifies as completely unreadable.
Re: [9fans] quote o' the day
I wish I had that link the other day! Got into a debate about gnu cat etc. With a member of the local LUG. On Thursday, March 25, 2010, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote: As a example for our students we use http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob;f=src/cat.c;hb=HEAD versus http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/cat.c In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor near our office. Let's hope they learn. You should also add: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. I'm a total plan9 newbie, but I hate polluting / with every single application. I do prefer to have all apps in a single package directory /$some_dir/$objtype/bin where $some_dir is /opt, /pkg, /contrib, etc. I do not know if this would fit in well with the plan9 way though...
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net said: I'm inclined to this kind of stuff too, since it's easy to rm -fr if everything is simply in the same place. replica should make such concerns moot. I've taken a quick look at the docs, but it is intended to be a per-package management tool? Typically my concerns are setting up canonical versions/'dates which are known to be stable so testing can be done on multiple known code revisions. How does one do that with replica? EBo --
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 06:52:02PM -0600, EBo wrote: i vote for putting the binaries in /$objtype/bin or /$objtype/bin/tex. in the latter case, it would be tex/tex or tex/mf. I'm a total plan9 newbie, but I hate polluting / with every single application. I do prefer to have all apps in a single package directory /$some_dir/$objtype/bin where $some_dir is /opt, /pkg, /contrib, etc. I do not know if this would fit in well with the plan9 way though... You wouldn't be `polluting' / with every single application. Binaries would either go in $user/bin and would be then be bind-ed to /bin, or binaries would just go in /$objtype/bin. No `pollution' here. -- I am a man who does not exist for others. pgplblX7589gv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
On 25 Mar 2010, at 11:49, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: Hello, Since I can finally find some time here and there, I'm back to TeX and al. From namespace(4), the man pages are supposed to be under /sys/man. What is the canonical way for added (opt, pkg ?) stuff. Letting the user adapt his profile to bind the added stuff he wants appearing in his namespace? I know this isn't exactly what you're asking, but man-page namespace pollution has been something of an issue for years on unix. For example in Linux GPM and XFree86 both provided mouse(5), which was a big problem for me when I was first learning the system. I would like to see Plan 9 man support subdirs as rc does. For instance you can run ip/ping as a command, so why can't you look up ip/ ping(1)? Man pages for add-ons would have their own subdirs under the / sys/man tree, and you would reference them with a syntax like package/ pagename. -- Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it. -- Alan Perlis
Re: [9fans] Man pages for add-ons
having just gone through this process once, I've found I would much rather leave / untouched by human hands, and put my additional bits in /usr/rminnich and bind it over to where it needs to go. But then I run mostly single-user machines. ron
