Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[Lucio De Re]

On 2/11/21, o...@eigenstate.org  wrote:
> Quoth David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com>:
>> 9legacy patches are available as "unified diff" format and
>> are generated with "ape/diff -Nru".
>
> Alright, noted for the future.
>

Here's what I' ve been thinking about that may be worth sharing: I'd
like to have working 9legacy, 9pi (which I'd like to call 9muller,
frankly, if only for clarity, but also because it is what I run on my
i386 workstation, not yet the network server), 9atom and last, just to
emphasise it is NOT least, 9front. Each of those have useful
differences and even though I never really make any progress, I like
to think that there is "One plan 9" struggling to be born from these
variations.

So my question is this: what would be an optimal arrangement to have
all of these variation publicly available and reasonably maintained?
At worst, as downloadable VM images, at best along the lines of the Go
builders, where changes can be tentatively applied and tested?

Would the Plan 9 Foundation be interested in proposing to this
community that such a concept be pursued and properly maintained and
laying down a project path to achieve this objective? Could there be
much smaller portions of such an objective that could be progressively
achieved in a distributed, centrally managed manner?

Lucio

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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[ori]

Quoth David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com>:
> 9legacy patches are available as "unified diff" format and
> are generated with "ape/diff -Nru".

Alright, noted for the future.

> Feel free to ping me again if I missed something you sent me.

When I got git9 working on 9legacy, I backported a couple
of utilities and changes:

/n/sources/patch/walk
/n/sources/patch/rc-line-split

I also noticed that the changes that lufia had done on
the github repo have largely gone uncommented:

https://github.com/0intro/plan9-contrib/pulls
https://github.com/lufia/plan9

> 9legacy includes a patch to 9fs which replaces plan9.bell-labs.com
> by 9p.io.
> 

Ah, great -- it's been a while since I tried it.


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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[David du Colombier]

> > another question already, though a bit early for it... how are 9legacy
> > patches generated? on 9front as far as I know everything is in
> > mercurial and people use hg diff

9legacy patches are available as "unified diff" format and
are generated with "ape/diff -Nru".

I tend to prefer ape/diff to patch/create because it includes
everything in a single file and can handle file deletions.
It's also easier to read without using external tools.

> The question is whether there is anyone willing or able to
> apply the patch. I tried sending some in at one point, and
> got silence.

Feel free to ping me again if I missed something you sent me.

> Note that the last time I looked on 9legacy, '9fs sources'
> still pointed to the bell labs site, so you'd have to patch
> 9fs to use the 9p.io mirror if you want to submit a patch.

9legacy includes a patch to 9fs which replaces plan9.bell-labs.com
by 9p.io.

-- 
David du Colombier

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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[ori]

Quoth Eli Cohen :
> 
> another question already, though a bit early for it... how are 9legacy
> patches generated? on 9front as far as I know everything is in
> mercurial and people use hg diff

patch/create, as far as I know.

The question is whether there is anyone willing or able to
apply the patch. I tried sending some in at one point, and
got silence.

Note that the last time I looked on 9legacy, '9fs sources'
still pointed to the bell labs site, so you'd have to patch
9fs to use the 9p.io mirror if you want to submit a patch.


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Re: [9fans] which Plan 9 am I running?

[Richard Miller]

> I am very grateful for Richard Miller's ready-made 9pi image.
> ...
> I have also read up a bit on 9legacy, 9front, etc.
> 
> I wonder now which, if any, of these I am running.

Good question.

The 9pi image started out as pure Bell Labs 4th edition in
a ready-to-use form for the Raspberry Pi. Over the years the
kernel and usb drivers have evolved to keep up with subsequent
Pi hardware development. Outside the kernel I've applied some
patches, from /n/sources/patch and a few from 9legacy and 9front,
which I considered essential for usability. (The measure of
usability includes being able to run a plan9-arm Go builder.)
It's still closer to 4th edition than to any of the other versions.


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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[Eli Cohen]

well... I have a few questions already. I have heard that thorough
scrutiny of dp9ik would be appreciated as Ori said, and hasn't really
been done yet... beyond my capabilities, though. I have explored dp9ik
a little bit, another document about it is this writeup:
http://felloff.net/usr/cinap_lenrek/newticket.txt

a preliminary rough draft roadmap:

figure out better how dp9ik is done on 9front (I've looked at this a
bit, the key exchange is used for chacha20-poly1305 PSK TLS, then a
lot is rc-based, rconnect with tlsclient...)
look at how that's different than 9legacy (libsec additions, etc.
figure out which parts should be different patches)
then make a better roadmap

another question already, though a bit early for it... how are 9legacy
patches generated? on 9front as far as I know everything is in
mercurial and people use hg diff

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[9fans] which Plan 9 am I running?

[pouya+lists . 9fans]

I am very grateful for Richard Miller's ready-made 9pi image.

When I first got to know about Plan 9 many years ago, there was only a
single distribution of it I believe.

I had assumed I was running something close to that distribution, with
an updated kernel, but I have since been pleasantly surprised by some
new additions, such as Go, an rc git client, etc. included in this
image.

I have also read up a bit on 9legacy, 9front, etc.

I wonder now which, if any, of these I am running.

Pouya


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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[hiro]

in my legislation churches devoted to glenda worshipping are considered sects.
it would be great to be able and register in a country where this is
possibly a church instead.

I found another place where this is discussed
https://old.reddit.com/r/plan9/comments/lgoz01/plan_9_foundation/

i approve of this displayed intent to unite the factions and bring
plan9 forward, but I fear it will be very hard to track so many media
for anybody involved in any of the "factions".

some may have no hackernews account, some may have no reddit account,
some may have no github account, and all this to me combined comes
technically in the way of seamless communication. not a unique thing
to this community, but nonetheless a regretful problem.

maybe at a certain size fragmentation is even necessary.
perhaps it is after all a sign of plan9's success that this seemingly
conflictual topic is coming up now.

in the meantime, everybody keep on booting their plan9 for it's own
sake, please :)

On 2/10/21, Kim Shrier  wrote:
> Great news.
> 
> As soon as you work out the details, please announce on this list.
> I would like to become a member and donate $ as well.
> 
> Kim

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[pouya+lists . 9fans]

> We are pleased to announce the creation of the Plan 9 Foundation.

This is excellent news.  I am especially excited to see some familiar
names in the signature (the familiarity is one-directional, partly
from when I was lurking around Plan 9 lists back in the 2000s).

Would be keen to learn how to support your work.

Pouya


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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Kim Shrier]

Great news.

As soon as you work out the details, please announce on this list.
I would like to become a member and donate $ as well.

Kim

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Skip Tavakkolian]

It is probably fair to say it's harder than setting up an organized
church[*] or a Super PAC[**]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Perpetual_Exemption
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colbert_Super_PAC

P.S. For those not familiar with US tax code, politics, or comedy shows: a
Venn diagram intersecting all three would have at least the above two
examples.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 10:35 AM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:

>
> On 2/10/21 12:17 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:
> >> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/.
> >>
> > "That effort stalled, mainly due to the treatment of software-focused
> > non-profit organizations under U.S. regulations at the time."
> >
> > What does this mean?
> >
> >
> Let me guess.
> 
> In their ongoing effort to starve open source projects of resources,
> proprietary software vendors lobbied Congress to add special
> requirements for software projects filing IRS Form 1023?
> 

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Anthony Sorace]

It did not seem to be anything so nefarious. The IRS was not publicly stating 
their reasons and I don’t want to speculate about them too much, but it seemed 
to just be a pause while they figured out how to differentiate legitimate 
organizations from scam ones.

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 10:35, Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 2/10/21 12:17 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:
>>> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/.
>>> 
>> "That effort stalled, mainly due to the treatment of software-focused
>> non-profit organizations under U.S. regulations at the time."
>> 
>> What does this mean?
>> 
>> 
> Let me guess.
> 
> In their ongoing effort to starve open source projects of resources, 
> proprietary software vendors lobbied Congress to add special requirements for 
> software projects filing IRS Form 1023?
> 

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Wes Kussmaul]

On 2/10/21 12:17 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:

On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:

More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/.


"That effort stalled, mainly due to the treatment of software-focused
non-profit organizations under U.S. regulations at the time."

What does this mean?



Let me guess.

In their ongoing effort to starve open source projects of resources, 
proprietary software vendors lobbied Congress to add special 
requirements for software projects filing IRS Form 1023?



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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Anthony Sorace]

We’re starting off with the prior years’ GSoC money. We haven’t yet pursued 
other funding avenues since there’s still a bunch of legal/tax things we have 
to finish first. 

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 10:24, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> you got other money sources lined up apart from gsoc?
> 
> i don't know if this might open up some new avenues for those of us
> who have programming dayjobs but would rather quit those and make
> something more meaningful that isn't profit-driven and part of the
> usual IT industry.
> 
> or what's the idea behind this foundation, the opportunity this might create?

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[hiro]

you got other money sources lined up apart from gsoc?

i don't know if this might open up some new avenues for those of us
who have programming dayjobs but would rather quit those and make
something more meaningful that isn't profit-driven and part of the
usual IT industry.

or what's the idea behind this foundation, the opportunity this might create?

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Anthony Sorace]

The focus at that time (2009) was on getting a 501(c)3 org to accept the GSoC 
money after we were accepted that year. I talked to some folks doing similar 
things in other orgs and was advised that the IRS had stalled granting that to 
new software-focused non-profits. Since that main driver evaporated, we didn’t 
push in with the formation. The IRS has figured it out since 2009. :-)

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 09:19, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:
>> 
>> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/.
>> 
> 
> "That effort stalled, mainly due to the treatment of software-focused
> non-profit organizations under U.S. regulations at the time."
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> khm

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Kurt H Maier]

On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:
> 
> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/.
> 

"That effort stalled, mainly due to the treatment of software-focused
non-profit organizations under U.S. regulations at the time."

What does this mean?

khm

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Joseph Stewart]

I would also like to support, so keep me posted on opportunities to support
and join the foundation. Cheers y’all!

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 8:19 AM Marshall Conover 
wrote:

> Same! Enjoyed helping out with iwp92020, happy to help further.
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 11:07 AM Steve Simon  wrote:
>
>> > How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?
>> 
>> I too am interested in supporting plan9 in any form I can.
>> 
>> -Steve
>
>
> --
> Have a good day,
>
> Marshall Conover
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Marshall Conover]

Same! Enjoyed helping out with iwp92020, happy to help further.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 11:07 AM Steve Simon  wrote:

> > How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?
> 
> I too am interested in supporting plan9 in any form I can.
> 
> -Steve


-- 
Have a good day,

Marshall Conover

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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[ori]

Quoth Skip Tavakkolian :
> no slight to the inventor of dp9ik, but has it been verified?

It's using the SPAKE2 algorithm, which is fairly well analyzed.

Here are a few starting points to read about it:

https://www.lothar.com/blog/54-spake2-random-elements/
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/104/slides/slides-104-cfrg-pake-selection-01.pdf
https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/curves/2015/000424.html

While code reviews and audits are definitely welcome,
it's a significant step forward over current p9sk1
DES keys that can be brute forced in less than a day.


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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Steve Simon]

> How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?

I too am interested in supporting plan9 in any form I can.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Anthony Sorace]

> Thierry asked:
> 
> One suggestion: add a link for donations. I, for one, when I can't
> provide code to software I'm interested in (even remotely), try at 
> least to give some money.
> Don asked:
> 
> How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?

Glad to hear there's interest!

We'll absolutely have ways for people to get involved (including financial 
support, for those inclined) soon, but there's still a bunch of stuff we have 
to get in order first.

Anthony


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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[Steve Simon]

FWIW I recently extracted ssh/sshfs/libsec from 9front and applied them to
richard miller's raspberry pi image.

This was not too hard but the changes did extend further than I first expected.
I could braindump what I did and it would form (I think) a very useful diff.

Richard millers image is not the same as 9legacy but it is probably very close.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Don A. Bailey]

How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?

D

> On Feb 10, 2021, at 2:41 AM, Anthony Sorace  wrote:
> 
> We are pleased to announce the creation of the Plan 9 Foundation.
> 
> The Foundation exists to promote and further the development of Plan 9 and 
> related technologies for lightweight distributed systems.
> 
> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/. We've also 
> brought up a new wiki, reachable on the web at http://p9f.org/wiki/welcome/ 
> or over 9p at tcp!p9f.org!wiki.
> 
> As our first major activity, the Plan 9 Foundation will be coordinating Plan 
> 9's application to (and, should we be accepted, participation in) Google's 
> Summer of Code. That includes hosting the all-important Ideas Page for this 
> year, as well as other supporting documentation; more on that in a separate 
> email.
> 
> We'll also be coordinating the return of the International Workshop on Plan 
> 9. Last year's efforts to bring IWP9 back were a big part of what led to the 
> creation of the Foundation. It's still not clear when we'll be able to have 
> an in-person conference responsibly, but we're eager to get there.
> 
> We want to make Plan 9 and all that surrounds it stronger, more accessible, 
> and more useful for all. We know there's plenty going on already and we want 
> to be clear that we're excited about that. We hope to add to that, provide 
> some additional resources, and improve things for everyone using Plan 9 
> technology in their projects.
> 
> We're still getting started and have quite a bit to do before everything is 
> running smoothly, but we're really excited for what the year's going to 
> bring. 2021 is going to be great for Glenda.
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> 
> Geoff Collier
> David du Colombier
> Charles Forsyth
> Paul Lalonde
> Ron Minnich
> Jeff Sickel
> Anthony Sorace
> Skip Tavakkolian
> 

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[tlaronde]

Hello,

On Tue, Feb 09, 2021 at 11:40:18PM -0800, Anthony Sorace wrote:
> We are pleased to announce the creation of the Plan 9 Foundation.
> 
> The Foundation exists to promote and further the development of Plan 9 and 
> related technologies for lightweight distributed systems.
> 
> More information can be found on our web site, http://p9f.org/. We've also 
> brought up a new wiki, reachable on the web at http://p9f.org/wiki/welcome/ 
> or over 9p at tcp!p9f.org!wiki.
> 
> As our first major activity, the Plan 9 Foundation will be coordinating Plan 
> 9's application to (and, should we be accepted, participation in) Google's 
> Summer of Code. That includes hosting the all-important Ideas Page for this 
> year, as well as other supporting documentation; more on that in a separate 
> email.
> 

One suggestion: add a link for donations. I, for one, when I can't
provide code to software I'm interested in (even remotely), try at 
least to give some money.

My 2 cts (it will be a little more if I donate),
-- 
Thierry Laronde 
 http://www.kergis.com/
http://kertex.kergis.com/
   http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

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[9fans] Re: Plan 9 Foundation

[Anthony Martin]

Anthony Sorace  once said:
> Collier

Can *I* buy a vowel?
Not this one but another,
Here and on the site.

Cheers,
  Anthony

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