Re: [9fans] licence question
Students who rely on that will never really learn. From my perspective, most supposedly modern systems have been a bigger waste of time than some of the older ones. Windoze, Linux, etc. in some ways still have not caught up to features that Multics and Plan 9, among other systems, had to offer decades ago - and they are bolting things on that came naturally to the older systems, so they don't work very well in contrast. They build complexity on complexity instead of leveraging a simple consistent approach that can actually be understood. Multics was in some ways a conceptual precursor to today's "cloud computing" (in the sense that it was engineered to be a multi-tenant system with separate projects being billed for the resources they used), while also introducing the world to concepts such as access control lists (ACLs). Plan 9 offers a level of network transparency and process interoperability that most of our "modern" systems don't seem to be able to get right, not to mention having been well-designed for working transparently across systems with differing architectures (SPARC, MIPS, etc.) out of a common file system. If a student just wants to write business logic for some big company doing batch processing or wants to create web sites or some such then sure, let them stick with what is out there at the moment. If they really want to understand computers and computer programming, they should try to learn from the ground up. Being limited to "modern" systems won't get them nearly as far as being exposed to a range of ideas and different approaches that have been taken over time. “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” ―Edmund Burke On 2/4/22 12:48 PM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:30:26AM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote: In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;) In my experience needing to be told what's best for them is the defining characteristic of a student khm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-Mebbbc70d0d122fd7d3ec1dfc Delivery options:https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-M7f837fca51d6819b2c70e520 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] licence question
04.02.2022 17:29:55 ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>: On Friday, 4 February 2022, at 4:30 PM, Kent R. Spillner wrote: In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;) My platform isn't one for teaching programing its for teaching other subjects like math, electronics, statics and so on. It's neither my goal nor the intention of such a project to teach the students how to realize such a project. The suggestion that I would include the code so that someone could learn from it is unrealistic. If one of those students get interested in the way I did the whole thing they find the links for the projects I used as a basement. Well, I personally would like to see how you made a kiosk app like that using a Plan 9 system. It's not that I want to see what you used as a base, but I want to see how you combined all that. So there is a benefit of releasing some parts of the source somewhere at least, if not inside the software, maybe somewhere else. Neither operating system development nor programming in C for plan9 are subjects of my platform and so there is no benefit for my students having the sources. If someone gets interested he/she can use the links for the used open source projects and become fans of whatever they like. Perhaps some will get motivated by using such a system to invest the necessary time and effort. I don't hide what I used so they can become enthusiasts if they want to. But this platform doesn't need accompanied sources nor will the students have direct access to a shell or the tools everything is hidden behind a simple kiosk app which has no other goal beside being the "envelop" for the real information meant to be taught. sirjofri -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-Mfa48f26556f4fe74dd041660 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] licence question
On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:30:26AM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote: > > In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;) > In my experience needing to be told what's best for them is the defining characteristic of a student khm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-Mebbbc70d0d122fd7d3ec1dfc Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] licence question
On Friday, 4 February 2022, at 4:30 PM, Kent R. Spillner wrote: > In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;) My platform isn't one for teaching programing its for teaching other subjects like math, electronics, statics and so on. It's neither my goal nor the intention of such a project to teach the students how to realize such a project. The suggestion that I would include the code so that someone could learn from it is unrealistic. If one of those students get interested in the way I did the whole thing they find the links for the projects I used as a basement. Neither operating system development nor programming in C for plan9 are subjects of my platform and so there is no benefit for my students having the sources. If someone gets interested he/she can use the links for the used open source projects and become fans of whatever they like. Perhaps some will get motivated by using such a system to invest the necessary time and effort. I don't hide what I used so they can become enthusiasts if they want to. But this platform doesn't need accompanied sources nor will the students have direct access to a shell or the tools everything is hidden behind a simple kiosk app which has no other goal beside being the "envelop" for the real information meant to be taught. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-Maa0df4bb413196b925180ef0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] licence question
I could see some value in students learning a truly distributed system if they are CS majors looking to specialize in scientific computing or distributed processing work but otherwise it would generally be a huge waste of their time. They would probably be far better off learning one of the modern distributed computing platforms than something that is quickly approaching 40 years old and only ever had a commercial lifespan of 4 short years. That said, I'm sure that there are plenty of more academic type computer science students that would find such a project interesting enough to throw a couple years at it. On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:31 AM Kent R. Spillner wrote: > > There is no benefit for the students to learn how to realize such a > platform > > In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for > them? ;) > -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-M1f60ce30e19118486d576118 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] licence question
> There is no benefit for the students to learn how to realize such a platform In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;) -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-Mc124d3c548ad8ddbb95de513 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
