Re: [9fans] Glad tidings of comfort and joy

[Jacob Todd]

i have magnet links for the black and white and colour versions of the
originals as well. email me for them. can't wait for this!

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Winston Kodogo  wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwDOqsu0GZw
>

Re: [9fans] Limbo manual

[Jacob Todd]

the programming with limbo book is available online for free is you
know where to look. there haven't been many changes since it was made
afaik, start with that and just read the code.

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 11:14 PM, Roswell Grey  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> it seems that the online documentation for learning limbo is rather
> outdated. Does anyone know where I could get a more updated version to learn
> limbo coding? Thanks!
>
> -R

Re: [9fans] file descriptor leak

[Jacob Todd]

what's your fucking problem?

Re: [9fans] file descriptor leak

[Jacob Todd]

I've had this problem too, I have yet to resolve it.
On Feb 16, 2016 10:54 AM, "arisawa"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have observed warning messages from dns server:
> dns 30792: warning process exceeded 100 file descriptors
> dns 30888: warning process exceeded 200 file descriptors
> …
>
> probably the file descriptor leak comes from dnresolve.c
>
> udpquery(Query *qp, char *mntpt, int depth, int patient, int inns)
> {
> …
> msg = system(open("/dev/null", ORDWR), "outside");
> …
> }
>
> char *
> system(int fd, char *cmd)
> {
> int pid, p, i;
> static Waitmsg msg;
>
> if((pid = fork()) == -1)
> sysfatal("fork failed: %r");
> else if(pid == 0){
> dup(fd, 0);
> close(fd);
> for (i = 3; i < 200; i++)
> close(i);   /* don't leak fds */
> execl("/bin/rc", "rc", "-c", cmd, nil);
> sysfatal("exec rc: %r");
> }
> for(p = waitpid(); p >= 0; p = waitpid())
> if(p == pid)
> return msg.msg;
> return "lost child";
> }
>
> fd is lost if pid > 0
>
> my server is running on 9front. however both 9atom and bell-labs use same
> routine.
>
> Kenji Arisawa
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Off topic: Linus rants against GCC-isms

[Jacob Todd]

this link goes to nothing about gcc

Re: [9fans] Windows drawterm screen size

[Jacob Todd]

drawterm-hiro crashes with inferno on Windows 7 64 bit for me. not sure if
related.

Re: [9fans] off topic - a good Git reference

[Jacob Todd]

that's all we use on 9front, though they might be using a different version.
On Oct 3, 2015 3:29 PM, "Jeff Sickel"  wrote:

> Not unless they forked the fork and fixed the ssl module in the Python
> 2.7.9-plan9 branch.
>
> I’ve not had the time nor energy to finish it off yet.
>
> -jas
>
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:48 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>
> did you fix the SSL interface in python, too?
>
> - erik
> On Oct 2, 2015 9:37 PM, Nick Owens  wrote:
>
> 9front now supports tls 1.2 in libsec/devtls. Mercurial can make use of it
> through webfs.
> On Oct 2, 2015 7:35 PM, "erik quanstrom"  wrote:
>
> On Fri Oct  2 18:46:06 PDT 2015, k...@sciops.net wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 11:56:47PM +0200, a.regenf...@gmx.de wrote:
> > > >Mercurial works.
> > > If you have got an installed python.
> >
> > that's pretty much universally the case for mercurial, yes.
>
> well, there are some problems with ssl.
>
> - erik
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] vmware and monitor setup

[Jacob Todd]

I never had a problem with vmware 9/10.

Re: [9fans] Printed manuals

[Jacob Todd]

you could print then at your local library.

Re: [9fans] Adding a new user.

[Jacob Todd]

what didn't work? Are you using the labs distribution, 9front or 9atom?

[9fans] chem preprocessor

[Jacob Todd]

BWK wrote a preprocessor for troff for drawing chemical structures long ago.
I've ported it to plan 9 with just a small changes. If you would like to try
it out just `9fs busybeingbrutal.org`, it's chem.tbz. I have only tested the
examples.

Re: [9fans] chem preprocessor

[Jacob Todd]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de wrote:
 From where did you port it?

i found it at http://www.netlib.org/typesetting/chem. the original
bundle (chem.sh)
in the archive i provided.

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi installer surrogate

[Jacob Todd]

I used dd and the 9front img.
On Aug 12, 2014 5:43 PM, dante subscripti...@posteo.eu wrote:

 Dear 9ers,

 Here is my first contribution.

 AFAIK, there is no installer yet for the Rasbperry Pi port.
 Moreover, the Raspberry Pi can only boot from the one SD card (not from
 USB).
 This makes the classical installer design (boot from a removable device,
 install on the fixed disk) impractical.

 A solution would be to start with a given installation (e.g., Richard
 Miller's bootable image), use an SD-to-USB adapter and clone the disk.
 This has the following advantages:
 - the new disk can be used at full capacity (not only 2GB or so in the
 original image);
 - the installation can be done without the need of an additional system
(a PC to write the image or even a virtual machine as proposed by
 9front https://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/9pi)

 The attached script clones a Raspberry Pi Plan9 Fossil installation to an
 SD disk connected via such a USB adapter.
 If the device is recognised as sdUXX, call piclone sdUXX.

 I have no idea where this utility belongs to.
 It is IMHO too specific to be placed under arm/bin.
 For this reason, I attach the file in stead of sending a patch(1).
 I hope it helps and it will find it's way into Plan9 (or at least to Mr.
 Miller's image :-).

 DISCLAIMER: There might be bugs.

 Kind Regards,
 Dante

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi installer surrogate

[Jacob Todd]

On Aug 12, 2014 6:09 PM, dante subscripti...@posteo.eu wrote:

 You got a huge 2GB disk.
 Moreover, you probably needed an additional PC.

I think it's a 32gb sd card but I pxe boot from my cpu/fs.

 Cheers!

Re: [9fans] Plan9 Sources Repository

[Jacob Todd]

Are you intentionally trying to make plan  bureaucratic?

Re: [9fans] 2014 hardware overview

[Jacob Todd]

The w510 also works with 9front. WiFi works with wpa2 , ethernet works,
native screen resolution of 1366x768 does not currently work, it's
stretched 1024x768. I'll mange a full list when I'm home.
On Jun 29, 2014 3:02 PM, s...@9front.org wrote:

 http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/KnownWorkingHardware
 http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/hardware/

 sl

Re: [9fans] dual boot

[Jacob Todd]

The last time I dual booted plan 9 I just had to chainload it with grub
like you do with Windows.

Re: [9fans] [GSOC] plan9 which arch code to use?

[Jacob Todd]

Who would you like to volunteer to do all of this work, that's what it
seems like you're trying to do.
On May 7, 2014 4:09 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

 On Wed May  7 16:00:21 EDT 2014, s...@9front.org wrote:
   you're missing my point.  it's not particularly useful as a tinker-toy
   set.  especially when there are 10 wheels and 1 stick.
 
  What I know is that I turn on my Thinkpad x230 and everything
  works. After the boot process finishes I just carry on with my
  work.

 sure that's fine.  but if everyone does that, plan 9 will fall into
 disrepair,
 because nobody's willing to do the work.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] writing to /dev/$winid/addr

[Jacob Todd]

Then why did you say it was rc? What's wrong with you.
On Apr 24, 2014 12:18 AM, Alexander Kapshuk alexander.kaps...@gmail.com
wrote:

 That's OK. It's actually ksh on AIX.

 Thanks for your feedback anyway.


 On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:34 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net
 wrote:
   #!/bin/rc
   {
echo 'echo $SYSNAME!`uname -n`!$USER'
echo 'PS1='':; '' PS2='' '''
   } /dev/$winid/body
   this is not valid rc.
  
   - erik
  
  If it's not too much trouble, would you mind demonstrating what valid rc
  would be for the part of the script in question.
 
  i'm wrong of course if the shell you're running is bash,
  the script itself is reasonable rc.  i was confused by an
  rc script emitting bash.
 
  - erik
 

[9fans] (no subject)

[Jacob Todd]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 10:51:37 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
since you mention the host's hardware, i'm a little confused.  the host's
hardware doesn't make any difference.  it's drawterm's bridge between
#A and the host's audio device that's the question.  has someone
done this for os-x?  if so, where's the code?

http://h1ro.dyndns.org/drawterm/
http://9fans.net/archive/2012/06/205

Re: [9fans] (no subject)

[Jacob Todd]

Audio worked with hiro's drawterm and intel hda in 9front.

Re: [9fans] Plumb menu option not working

[Jacob Todd]

On Mar 12, 2014 11:25 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 do you have a practical use for this?

Exchanging data with remote machines.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image

[Jacob Todd]

Check the 9front wiki.
On Feb 18, 2014 7:15 PM, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd be curious to know the methodology for producing this port as well.
 There is a site where a fellow is describing his efforts to port Inferno to
 RPi, that is certainly interesting reading... and I haven't checked his
 progress in a while, so I should.

 Many thanks!

 Shane.
 On Feb 19, 2014 9:25 AM, Yoann Padioleau p...@fb.com wrote:

 Yes, thx Richard.

 But how this image was produced? just mk in the sys/src/9/bcm/
 official plan9 distribution or do you have a custom plan9?

 On Feb 18, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com
  wrote:

  Thank you for creating the Raspberry Pi port.  I had always wanted to
  use Plan 9, but I was not able to until this port was created, because
  I didn't have any compatible hardware.
 
  Yes, that's why I did it -- to give people a low-cost way to try Plan 9,
  and also to give Plan 9 users a way to try the Raspberry Pi.  I'm glad
  to know it's been useful.
 
 

Re: [9fans] Alternative Plan 9 Logo

[Jacob Todd]

It's just software, it doesn't need a slogan.
On Jan 6, 2014 7:23 PM, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd be interested in using it as a logo for my future syncfs work. Can
 someone think of a catchy tagline? Powered by Plan 9 technology or
 similar?


 On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:07 AM, phineas.p...@gmail.com wrote:


 At Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:30:46 +0100,
 Bence Fábián wrote:
 
  Just start using it. That's how things got adopted by a community.
 

 I would be flattered if people did.  Since there is apparently some
 interest I'll clean it up a bit and make the source files available.

 Peter

Re: [9fans] mk time-check/slice issue

[Jacob Todd]

No one is stopping you from changing it in your installation.
On Dec 19, 2013 11:38 AM, Blake McBride bl...@mcbride.name wrote:

 On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Tristan 9p...@imu.li wrote:

  I for one favor practical usefulness over theoretical correctness.  An
  environment variable option would trivially satisfy both groups. It
 could
  operate as-is so nothing pre-existing would be affected.

 how long does it take you to run mk, and then realise you didn't Put your
 last set of changes?

 i once changed mk on my local machine to act as you suggest, and then
 took far too long trying to figure out why the program's behavior didn't
 reflect the code. more time than i saved from waiting on mk? who knows?


 If the situation you describe can happen then it definitely shouldn't be
 changed.  Could you please provide me with a scenario (sequence of events)
 that would be a problem if mk was changed?  I can't think of one.

 Thanks.

 Blake

Re: [9fans] Problem with mk

[Jacob Todd]

You could put NPROC=1 in the mkfile.

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Jacob Todd]

I've used/have been using plan 9 (9front) for music listening, I haven't
tried ripping a cd yet. I had written something in rc that took a directory
name and just used play to play whatever was there. Nothing spectacular.

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Jacob Todd]

On Dec 8, 2013 10:55 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:

 yeah ok, but why did he not rip to mp3 is what I mean...

I have an already existing collection of all of my cds, I didn't see the
need to do it again.

Re: [9fans] music storage

[Jacob Todd]

Rip them again, that is.

Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom

[Jacob Todd]

I've been using 9front (cpu/auth/cwfs) in vmware for almost a year
with no problems. It even supports hda-intel sound.

Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom

[Jacob Todd]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.com wrote:
 Just installed 9front in a VM, and it worked fine. Two things. First,
 it didn't ask me for systype as the documentation suggests it's
 supposed to. No problem. I can sort that out on my own, but it would
 be nice if the docs were correct. Second, python 2.5.1. Any plans to
 bring over Jeff Sickel's 2.7.5? I can give it a go, if no one else is
 working on it, but I know it requires significant changes to APE. It's
 needed for codereview, IIRC. Also, what's the mercurial version? It
 says version unknown. It'd be good to have mercurial 2.6.2 for go
 compiler and stdlib dev, which is what I meant when I said go dev.
 Thanks!
The mercurial is from 26/08/2009, it was ported by fgb.

Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom

[Jacob Todd]

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.com wrote:
 Sadly, no. That would have been my first choice, if it were an option.
 I know ahci works great in 9atom. I'll give virtualbox a whirl.

You would probably be better off using qemu than virtualbox.

Re: [9fans] i'm afraid we've had it wrong

[Jacob Todd]

it's good to know where we went wrong.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:55 PM, andrey mirtchovski
mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:
 after all these years:

 http://www.di.unipi.it/~nids/docs/the_plan-9_effect.html

Re: [9fans] Python3 for Plan9

[Jacob Todd]

No, sorry.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Devyn Collier Johnson
devyncjohn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Aloha Plan9 fans!

I am new to Plan9 and I plan to use it for robotics. However, I am unable
 to find a Python3 interpreter that would run on a Plan9 system on an ARM
 system. Does such a package exist?

 Mahalo,

 devyncjohn...@gmail.com

Re: [9fans] p9p export or equivalent

[Jacob Todd]

u9fs.
On Aug 1, 2013 12:31 PM, smi...@icebubble.org wrote:

 I just noticed that plan9port doesn't have a version of the Plan 9
 export command.  Has it not been ported yet?

 Short of setting up that 800lb gorilla known as NFS and using Plan 9's
 nfs client, how might one share files on a *nux system with Plan 9?

 --
 +---+
 |Smiley   smi...@icebubble.orgPGP key ID:BC549F8B |
 |Fingerprint: 9329 DB4A 30F5 6EDA D2BA  3489 DAB7 555A BC54 9F8B|
 +---+

Re: [9fans] test(1) -older bug?

[Jacob Todd]

On Jun 3, 2013 6:49 AM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote:
 And the consequences of not freeing a few bytes of memory, in a command
 which will exit a few microseconds later, would be ... ?


bad taste.

Re: [9fans] Go tip build fails

[Jacob Todd]

I'm experiencing the same problem.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9's clock for p9p

[Jacob Todd]

I think there's a port of clock for p9p on sources, though I don't remember
where it was.

Re: [9fans] [9pi] standardize \ normalize setting dns in

[Jacob Todd]

Then why don't you add it to termrc.local? That's what it is for.

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

[Jacob Todd]

Stop.

Re: [9fans] raspberry pi plan 9 image

[Jacob Todd]

What error are you getting?

Re: [9fans] what are people using for IRC these days

[Jacob Todd]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 6:12 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
 So, while my IRC bouncer runs on my Plan 9 server, I've been
 connecting to it using Linux and Windows clients. Now that I've got my
 rpi set up with a nice monitor and everything, I'm looking at IRC on
 Plan 9 again.

 What clients are people using these days? I remember using something
 in Acme that posted a file in /srv, supported multiple channels, etc.,
 but also tended to gobble up a lot of cpu time when I'd start a new
 instance of the client. Server authentication would be useful for
 authenticating to my bouncer too.


 john


I use irc7.

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[Jacob Todd]

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 6:25 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote:
 Maybe should I try 9front instead? I read they made a new bootloader to fix
 that issue.

 The PC kernel is also (supposed to be) multiboot-compliant, so you
 should be able to boot it with GRUB if that helps. You just have to
 build the kernel as an ELF file.

 This means, of course, that you'll have to make do with default
 configuration options or hard-code the options, since GRUB doesn't
 read plan9.ini.

I've never had to do that when when using grub and plan 9,
chainloading always worked.

Re: [9fans] Good sample GUI code (window creation, management,

[Jacob Todd]

9.intro.pdf has examples of creating windows iirc; also, check the rio
source.
On Dec 19, 2012 6:18 AM, Luke Evans luke.ev...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought I had bumped into a short example on the web for creating
 a window in C, but can't seem to find it again.

 I'm sure I could search all the sources for various examples of such
 things, but does anybody know of a good (preferably concise) sample
 that demonstrates the correct way to write GUI apps in Plan 9?

 Thanks!

Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords

[Jacob Todd]

Aren't all of the chords in the acme paper and/or man page?
On Apr 25, 2012 4:46 AM, Brian Vito brian.v...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has
 any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly
 appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to
 acme for non-programmers.

 https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM

Re: [9fans] 9vx instability

[Jacob Todd]

The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too.
On Nov 26, 2011 6:51 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:

  9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting
  useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking
  anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring
  simplicity and things that work.
 
  This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems
  close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling
  and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if
  cat-v.org takes the blame for that.
 
to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front.
  
   to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good
   you must also be humble.  why do you think dennis' ideas took
   over?
 
  I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too
  seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The
  UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf
 
  9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of seriousness,
  but it tries.
 
  I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people
  in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the
  whole project a bit too seriously.
 
  Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film.

 uriel, what you say would make sense if the jokes didn't include putting
 mein kampf in /lib.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] double posting

[Jacob Todd]

I noticed on 9srv that I received duplicates, buy gmail hasn't show
any of them (or I don't remember reading them). It started on the 24th.

Re: [9fans] inferno on android on slashdot

[Jacob Todd]

He clearly knows what he is taking about.
On Sep 18, 2011 3:26 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:
 There was one comment amongst the noise which I thought insightful:

 this one did it for me:

 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2433228cid=37432862

 Everything inside [Plan 9] is, like, full of high-brow sillyness,
 second system syndrome and vulnerabilities..

Re: [9fans] rc scripts in /386/bin/aux

[Jacob Todd]

On Aug 9, 2011 6:30 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:

 On Tue Aug  9 18:26:01 EDT 2011, lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
 the tradition has been to copy scripts into /$cputype/bin/$somesubdir
 for every arch.

I've always been under the impression they went in /rc/bin/.

Re: [9fans] mail client; general question web vs command

[Jacob Todd]

Acme has Mail. It doesn't do threading like mutt or anything, but it works.

Re: [9fans] interesting(?) widgets idea

[Jacob Todd]

On Jul 11, 2011 12:14 PM, Peter A. Cejchan wrote
however, my point was another: aint you annoyed by needless things that
just consume your pixels?? can't it all be done more efficiently?? even if
the win borders were 1px wide, wont it be more elegant at least? and why
should acme's tagline (s) consume so much pixels, if they can be [possibly]
replaced by an [editable] command frame ... yes, i cant prove it, sust a
silly idea... butb still feeling a disconcert between rio and acme ui
paradigm... cant it be unified?

No. your editor window would probably take up more room than acme's tag
lines.

Re: [9fans] novel userspace paradigms introduced by plan 9

[Jacob Todd]

Private namespaces.

Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it

[Jacob Todd]

There's an article on the wiki containing links to related info, also.

Re: [9fans] unable to start plan9 on atom330 in virtualbox

[Jacob Todd]

Plan 9 hasn't worked with virtual box for as long as i can remember. Try it
with qemu if you can.
On Jun 11, 2011 5:58 PM, Cr0t cr0t...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am unable to load plan9 on the latest version of virtualbox.

 - C

Re: [9fans] where is the latest drawterm source?

[Jacob Todd]

I think it's on bitbucket.

Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?

[Jacob Todd]

Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that
accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard.
On May 17, 2011 6:53 PM, errno er...@cox.net wrote:
 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:31:32 AM John Floren wrote:
 they want to let you connect to your Plan 9 system from a web
 browser, because you can find a Javascript-supporting web browser
 anywhere (except Plan 9) these days.

 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:00:15 AM Adrian Tritschler wrote:
 Serve it over http and access your CPU server from anywhere
 that's got a web browser.


 Is it really all that often when a Plan 9 user is in the precarious
 situation of needing to access his plan9 system from some
 other person's/party's pc or laptop?

 Is this for when you glide into a coffee shop and forget your
 laptop or something? Hey, Mr may I borrow your laptop's
 web browser for a sec... I really need to hack some code on
 my plan9 system.

 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:04:02 PM Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
 that's not the point though; the point is to have something
 that runs natively in the browser.

 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:31:32 AM John Floren wrote:
 Writing a drawterm replacement in Javascript is not
 going to downgrade Plan 9.


 Ok, who slipped me the Cr@zy Pills? Just a couple weeks ago,
 javascript and web technologies were THE DEVIL INCARNATE...
 but suddenly, here's something we can all get behind...
 javascript + html5 + browsers and other web standards
 are now OK[tm]?

 So it's cool to have the 9 running 'native' in a browser
 (via javascript!)... but to have the web running 'native' in
 Plan 9... is stark full of controversy, fear, uncertainty and
 doubt?

 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:18:45 AM erik quanstrom wrote:
 one would then be able to write applications for non-plan 9
 users in plan 9.


 I realize I'm being unimaginative, but I'm having a very difficult
 time conceiving what sort of plan 9 application could possibly
 be appealing to non-plan 9 users.

 On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:18:45 AM erik quanstrom wrote:
 it would be nice to have emulated environment that's more
 portable than 9vx and not tied to 32-bit x86.


 Well now this at least actually makes some modicum of sense
 to me.

 The web is the key.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 IRL

[Jacob Todd]

Coraid uses plan 9 in a few places; I think firmware that ships with their
hardware is a stripped down plan 9. I know there's other companies that use
plan 9, but I'm drawing a blank on them right now.

Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames

[Jacob Todd]

On Apr 29, 2011 6:21 AM, errno er...@cox.net wrote:

 On Friday, April 29, 2011 02:04:26 AM Charles Forsyth wrote:
   [1] For those gnashing teeth over glibc - might want to check out
   musl libc.  It's no plan 9 libc, but it's definitely less worse than
   glibc.
 
  ``News: As of version 0.7.7, musl has been successfully bootstrapped by
a
  third-party system integrator.''
 
  hmm. they had to do more than just compile it?
  a library has to be `bootstrapped'?
  i blame the parents.

 Really?

 I think it's fair enough to say that your standard library has been
 bootstrapped upon the first instance of it being baked into a
 new platform as the native libc.

 https://github.com/chneukirchen/sabotage


 On Friday, April 29, 2011 02:18:26 AM Charles Forsyth wrote:
   complaining is because you _need_ linux... to furnish all the things
   you can't do with plan 9 - either personally, or within your
   organization.
 
  it's true, but at least i haven't got to run either Windows or MacOS.
  the underlying problem is that the things we might simply import (mainly
  browser) can't simply be imported. it's not just us: you might have
  noticed that Google's Picasaweb runs under Linux by including a copy of
  Wine as part of its iceberg. also google in any alternative-os list you
  like for a discussion of the hopelessness of ./configure
 

Afaik, google has been distributing picasa with wine for years, it doesn't
act like an intermediate solution, it seems told be their solution.

 Icebergs are justified when used as a temporary stop-gap until a native
 solution is devised and implemented.  Thus, a webkit environment (AWE)
 seems like a pretty decent compromise until Plan 9 is finally able to
treat
 the wild wild web like a first-class citizen.

Seeing that plan 9 doesn't have a c++ compiler, i doubt it will ever be
ported. Cinap runs opera 9, flash 7, even blender under linuxemu, though.
You might want to take a look at it. 9hal.ath.cx. you can also use vnc on
plan 9 if you 'need' to use the web.

 I have no clue how difficult it would be to port webkit to Plan 9 though,
 but I imagine it would be easier than writing a pure Plan 9 web browser
 engine (html, css, dom  ecmascript) from scratch.

 (I just do basic backend web programming and linux systems administration
-
 so I'm just speculating.)

 But then again, why would anyone want a fully functional web experience
 on Plan 9 - what would be the purpose?  Apparently nobody does, otherwise
 it'd be implemented already.

Re: [9fans] Q: moving directories? hard links?

[Jacob Todd]

dircp and bind(1).
On Apr 15, 2011 10:39 PM, smi...@zenzebra.mv.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I've been about Plan 9... there are lots of goodies there under
 /sys/doc. However, I have a couple of lingering questions that don't
 seem to be answered anywhere:

 Observation 1: There doesn't seem to be any provision for moving a
 directory from one directory into another directory; that is, moving
 it to a different directory on the same type,device file system.

 Observation 2: There doesn't seem to be any support for hard links.

 My questions:

 Are these features, in fact, unsupported? Or did I overlook something?

 If they're unsupported, why? Were they simply overlooked? Are there
 compelling technical or theoretical reasons for not providing them?

 Are there any proposals afoot to implement either of these features? If
 not, are there any workarounds (besides cprm and bind, respectively)?

 I've checked the docs under /sys/doc, the man pages, the 9fans archives,
 and the googleweb, but I can't seem to find any explanation for these
 two properties. (The case for omitting symlinks, I think is obvious:
 they make most file-related utilities 3x more complicated than they
 would be otherwise.)

 --
 +---+
 |E-Mail: smi...@zenzebra.mv.com PGP key ID: BC549F8B|
 |Fingerprint: 9329 DB4A 30F5 6EDA D2BA 3489 DAB7 555A BC54 9F8B|
 +---+

[9fans] Acid trips video

[Jacob Todd]

Is there any full version of Russ' iwp9 2007 talk about acid available
anywhere? The version from http://mirror.cat-v.org/iwp9/2007/videos ends
abruptly.

Re: [9fans] GSoC Widget library

[Jacob Todd]

Plan 9 already has a widget philosophy, it just needs to be applied to a
library (supposedly).

Re: [9fans] GSoC Widget library

[Jacob Todd]

I like the former more.
On Apr 1, 2011 7:22 PM, pmarin pmarin.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 Which one? Acme/Abaco style or TK/limbo or panel library...

 On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:00 AM, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote:
 Plan 9 already has a widget philosophy, it just needs to be applied to a
 library (supposedly).

Re: [9fans] Installation woes

[Jacob Todd]

1. I can't help you there
2. If you can use kvm+kqemu, that will speed disk speed, c (that's been my
experience). I couldn't do networking for some reason that had to do with my
wireless card.
3. VirtualBox is known to mostly not work, though some people have managed
to get it to. Vmware should work. There's a wiki page about it, you may want
to look at that. I just did an install with vmware workstation that works
great.

Re: [9fans] Encrypting file systems

[Jacob Todd]

What i called cdfs was actually something for inferno, written in limbo.
It's on contrib, but I've already forgot where and what it's actual name
was. Cryptfs is either fs(3) or kfs(4) with block level encryption, i have
no idea which. It probably wasn't added because it wasn't 'critical' for
using the system.
On Mar 30, 2011 1:21 PM, smi...@zenzebra.mv.com wrote:
 Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com writes:

 There's two implementations that i know of: one is in russ' contrib, and
 there another one called cbfs (i think), which is also on contrib,
although
 i don't remember where. The latter version could be russ' implementation
 with changes, it's been a while since I tried either. Russ' didn't
compile
 at first, there were two variables with the same name iirc.

 I was able to find the former, but not the latter. Russ' cryptfs
 appears to be a modification of kfs. But isn't kfs one of the file
 systems that's now considered deprecated?

 How come crypto wasn't put right in fs(3)? It seems like doing that
 would give all disk-based file systems immediate cryptography support.

 Also, if you have any idea where I can find that cbfs, please let me
 know...

 Thanks!

Re: [9fans] Problem installing

[Jacob Todd]

After you mount /dev/sdD0/data to 'find' the distribution, when you get to
the prompt to look around the fs, just type exit in /. Installation will
proceed from there.

Re: [9fans] Encrypting file systems

[Jacob Todd]

There's two implementations that i know of: one is in russ' contrib, and
there another one called cbfs (i think), which is also on contrib, although
i don't remember where. The latter version could be russ' implementation
with changes, it's been a while since I tried either. Russ' didn't compile
at first, there were two variables with the same name iirc.

Re: [9fans] how can I set path

[Jacob Todd]

You don't.  You may want read /sys/doc/9.ps.

Re: [9fans] how can I set path

[Jacob Todd]

bind -a /usr/glenda/inferno/Plan9/386/bin /bin

Re: [9fans] troff macros for typesetting books/longer texts

[Jacob Todd]

There's 'Document formatting and Typesetting on the Unix System, Vol. I II'
by Narain Gehani and Steven Lally. They're available on alibris at a cheap
price. I unfortunately haven't had time to read them yet. I know there's
also more listed at troff.org.
On Mar 22, 2011 2:46 PM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:21:55AM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
 [...]

 In either case, the customizations are locked in with the document source

 and don't get distributed. Or they are so tied in with a specific
document
 that they're of no practical use as standalone tools.

 [...]

 This is a general pattern. I'm not a troff but a TeX user, and just
 seeing that learning how to use the full potential of TeX to match
 my own needs was easier, shorter in time, and less expensive---because
 of D.E. Knuth's TeXbook---than trying to learn how to _use_ some
 instance of LaTeX, I still don't understand why others...

 I know that it is less effort to climb a mountain via a lengther but
 less sloping road... but it must not be endless because flat and must
 reach the top.

 The best thing I learnt while aging is not how to do more efficiently,
 but how to have time doing knowing where to look for the needle stopping
 to search the internet hay stack.

 If there is no good short authoritative book on troff, and if you are
 not already proficient in troff, try TeX instead simply because of the
 TeXbook if not something else.
 --
 Thierry Laronde tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com
 http://www.kergis.com/
 Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] New venti install won't boot after 05:00 crash

[Jacob Todd]

Did you zero the plan 9 partition first? I recall having a problem like this
when installing over an existing plan 9 installation,  all i had to do was
zero that partition and everything worked fine after that.

Re: [9fans] a little frustrated

[Jacob Todd]

What's your point?

Re: [9fans] changing font size acme 9term plan 9 from user space

[Jacob Todd]

Set $font to the font you want. I use $PLAN9/fonts/fixed/unicode.6x12.font,
there's plenty of other sizes, though.
On Feb 26, 2011 7:20 AM, Sasha and Tanya Kapshuk sashaandta...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm using Plan 9 from user space on Debian Squeeze.

 I'd like to change the font size in both acme and 9term, but don't know
 how to do that.

 I'd appreciate a hint there please.

 Thanks.

 Alexander Kapshuk.

Re: [9fans] Small Plan9 box suggestions.

[Jacob Todd]

Does inferno have support for (a) webcam(s)? Or are you using linux for
capturing things from the webcam?
On Feb 25, 2011 9:14 AM, Jack Norton j...@0x6a.com wrote:
 Jason Dreisbach wrote:
 Hi all,

 Can anyone help shed some light in my search for a low power minimal
 plan 9 hardware setup to start experimenting with. Has anyone had
 success running plan 9 on a Fit PC (the only atom box we have access to)?


 Gumstix would be ideal, but their plan 9 support is a bit half baked
 right now. Wireless support would be a huge plus.

 We are trying to do a bit of research into robotic applications of plan
 9. The p9 filesystem protocol seems like a real neat method to acquire
 resources of nearby bots. Allowing for very minimal, modularized robot
 configurations.

 Any tips? Am I out of my mind?

 Thanks,

 Jason

 Jason,

 I am currently attempting a little ROV using some 9p for control, but I
 am using inferno hosted on linux. That might be the quicker way to get
 your 'bots speaking 9p. I am doing this because right off the bat I
 need a webcam. I also need to prototype this very quickly so mucking
 about in hardware drivers and OS nuances is not an option.
 Sounds like fun! I'm curious what you come up with!

 -Jack

Re: [9fans] 9vx versions

[Jacob Todd]

There's yiyus' and rminnichs' verions on bitbucket, just search for 9vx
there and you should find them. I think ron's is a fork of yiyus', I'm not
completely sufe how much the differ.

Re: [9fans] 9p to SMB

[Jacob Todd]

There's aquarela(8) and cifs(4).
On Feb 5, 2011 8:43 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [9fans] RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely

[Jacob Todd]

On Feb 1, 2011 1:05 AM, smi...@zenzebra.mv.com wrote:
 Reading about Plan 9, I was quite excited to install it.  I was quite
 excited when I first booted and ran it, too.  But I distinctly felt my
 heart sink a little the first time it hung.  Since then, I've browsed
 some of the OS source code and, having done that, I came to understand
 why the system was so buggy.  The core applications appear to be written
 in a style of C programming reminiscent of the dawn of UNIX.  While the
 operating system architecture is BEAUTIFULLY designed (with the
 exception, perhaps of that fossil/conf gotcha!), the C code used to
 implement it doesn't seem to take advantage of any of the programming
 paradigms that have emerged in the intervening 30 years...

What hasn't plan 9 adopted that would make it a better system? OOP? Plan 9
adopted (afaik) things like concurrency before other mainstream systems.
Plan 9's namespaces are still unique to the system, and the way most things
are represented as a fileserver is something very unique to plan 9/inferno.
What programming paradigms do you think plan 9 shoul
take advantage of?
 Getting Plan 9 code to crash is almost too easy:

 term% mkdir trashdir  cd trashdir  mkdir x
 term% touch `{i=0; while (test $i -lt 128) { echo -n abcdefghijklmnop;
i=`{echo $i+1|hoc} } }
 term% cp abc* abc* x
 # watch the cp executable suicide
 # now, make SURE there's nothing in this rio window that you want to
keep...
 term% rm abc*
 # watch the rio window go bye bye!

Yes, plan 9's file name length can be a bit 'short' in some cases. The
example you gave is a bit extreme, as fgb showed. When and why would you
need a filename/path that long?

Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely

[Jacob Todd]

And russ cox, and everyone else in the CONTRIBUTORS file.
On Feb 2, 2011 12:39 AM, Scott Sullivan sc...@ss.org wrote:

Re: [9fans] PUSH sources for Plan 9

[Jacob Todd]

http://code.google.com/p/push/

Re: [9fans] maintaining p9p

[Jacob Todd]

Setting NPROC to a reasonable number with cause mk to build n targets at
once. I set NPROC to 8 (the number of threads my cpu has) and p9p rebuilds
in less than 5 minutes.

Re: [9fans] uncommon sights

[Jacob Todd]

Cat /dev/screenfile

Or something like that. Not hard at all.

Re: [9fans] sound, graphics, tuner

[Jacob Todd]

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/history/2006F/ac97

There's no source there, but you could probably find an email address at
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412 for someone who does have the source. It could be
on sources, though,  I haven't checked.
On Jan 17, 2011 8:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky pavel.klinkov...@gmail.com
wrote:
 There exist two different AC97 drivers; look at the port of Doom to plan9
 for pointers to one of them.
 I have my IBM Think Pad with AC'97 running Plan9.
 The AC'97 driver supports only output mode.
 Any link to some different driver supporting also input mode?

 Pavel

Re: [9fans] 9doom

[Jacob Todd]

I emailed james yesterday, no response yet.
On Jan 16, 2011 2:22 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) 
lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
 Does anyone have a copy of the 9doom code they could put up on
 contrib?

Re: [9fans] 9doom

[Jacob Todd]

http://jtomaschke.blogspot.com/

James was able to get the renderer working, and it could play through demos.
It even had sound. Input needed to be worked out, though.

Re: [9fans] is this crazy?

[Jacob Todd]

I didn't think it was possible for me to hate 'tim and eric awesome show'
any more than I already did. I was wrong.

Re: [9fans] plan9 compatible notebook

[Jacob Todd]

Check the wiki page 'supported hardware.' There's at least one thinkpad on
the list.

Re: [9fans] plan9 compatible notebook

[Jacob Todd]

My dell inspiron 1000 works fairly well with plan 9, too. The ethernet
device doesn't work (there is a driver for it, there's some niggle with the
card, I suppose). Usb works, video works, sound doesn't,  however. The sound
card is some intel card (intel-8x0 driver on lunix).

Re: [9fans] sound, graphics, tuner

[Jacob Todd]

The hg repo for 9doom has been down for ages, so that's not possible atm.

Re: [9fans] inferno emu on arm

[Jacob Todd]

Set $objtype to arm in mkconfig?
On Jan 14, 2011 6:08 PM, Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan vdhar...@gmail.com
wrote:
 hi all,

 i am trying to run inferno emu on plan9 running on sheevaplug.

 does anyone know how to build emu for arm? i am surprised that it is
missing
 in inferno-os repository. or am i missing something?

 any help appreciated.

 thanks
 dharani

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Jacob Todd]

On Jan 13, 2011 9:32 AM, Duke Normandin dukeofp...@ml1.net wrote:

 Hello 9fans ...

 I'm _totally_ new to Plan9! Two days ago I had never heard of
 it. Yesterday I DLed the LiveCD - now I want to know more.

 The closest I've come to such an OS as Plan9, is the Native Oberon
 OS. I have a partition which I can overwrite. Does the LiveCD
 installation process allow me to abort the process if I see that
 things are not proceeding smoothly (like I need to gather some
 hardware info, etc)?

You can, just reboot with ^t rr. ;)

 Should I be installing Lucent's Plan9 or a more recent derivative, if
 any?

There's a iso by erik quanstrom called 9atom. It has some extra hardware
support. Just google 9atom

 Is there software available for this OS? Or do I have to write my own?

There's plenty of software. Most of it is in contrib.

 What is the primary development language for Plan9? C? What languages
 have been ported to Plan9?
Ansi c with some changes.


 Where are the best docs? TIA...
See /sys/doc and the wiki. Also, you may want to google 9.intro.pdf.

Re: [9fans] Plan9 topology

[Jacob Todd]

Maybe a gigabyte if you used a separate vm for cpu, auth and the fs. You can
combine cpu/auth and even the file server into one if you wanted.
On Jan 13, 2011 2:34 PM, Duke Normandin dukeofp...@ml1.net wrote:
 On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:

 if the intent is to get a full understanding of what an operational
 Plan 9 environment is like, using VMware or Qemu to create VM's for
 various roles (auth/cpu, fs, term) connected by a virtual network is
 an excellent option. I've successfully used this setup for
 experimenting/testing and for demos.

 Sounds like _a lot_ of fooling around! I've set up numerous *nix LANs
 before, but don't have one at the moment. How much memory would a
 machine need to set up all those VMs?
 --
 Duke

Re: [9fans] Plan9 topology

[Jacob Todd]

On Jan 13, 2011 11:33 PM, Duke Normandin dukeofp...@ml1.net wrote:

 On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, John Floren wrote:

  On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Duke Normandin dukeofp...@ml1.net
wrote:
 [snip]

   What is the minimum HDD capacity required to run an Auth/cpu/fs server
   with Venti support?
 
  There's no hard and fast rule, really, but your Fossil partition needs
  to be at least big enough to hold the full distribution, and Venti
  should be big enough to hold everything you ever intend to put on the
  system.

 The Fossil partition being the partition where Plan9 will be running.
 Venti should then be on another partition?

Yes.
  I wouldn't try it with less than a 20 GB disk, with say 2 GB for
  Fossil and the rest for Venti; unless you start storing music and
  video on there, that should give you plenty of room to work with.

 Ok! Can Venti be managed? As in, every so often, purge what isn't
 needed?
No.
 --
 Duke

Re: [9fans] gumstix displays

[Jacob Todd]

Seems a little small for a terminal, 4.3 at 480x272 resolution. Maybe I'm
crazy.

Re: [9fans] Plan9 development

[Jacob Todd]

The full standard c library isn't included in a statically linked
executable. Only what's needed is, at least on plan 9, i have no idea what
gcc does.
On Nov 14, 2010 3:14 AM, Gary V. Vaughan g...@vaughan.pe wrote:
 Hi Erik et. al,

 Thanks for the feedback, all.

 On 14 Nov 2010, at 13:24, erik quanstrom wrote:
 You may well be right that there's too much momentum behind
 autoconf/automake to change GNU. But that doesn't mean it's the right
 thing to do, or something sensible people ought to choose to
 participate in.

 to be a bit more blunt, the argument that the tyrrany of the
 auto* is unstoppable and will persist for all time is persuasive.

 Well, I wouldn't take it quite as far as that. My point is really that
 there is already a vast amount of (often good) software written by
 (often skilled) programmers who have invested a huge amount of time
 and energy into the existing eco-system, and (quite reasonably) want to
 enjoy the advantages of installing and utilising dynamic shared objects.

 I doubt that anyone would argue for a full static copy of the C runtime
 in every binary, and between there and making every code library a
 runtime linkable shared library is just a matter of degrees. Since you
 really need to solve the shared compilation unit problem at the lowest
 level anyway, you might as well expose it to at least the next few layers
 in the application stack at least.

 so i choose at this point to get off the gnu train and do something
 that affords more time for solving problems, rather than baby
 sitting tools (that baby sit tools)+. i believe no is a reasoned
answer,
 when faced with an argument that takes the form of everybody's
 doing it, and you can't stop it. i suppose everybody has had that
ex-boss.

 I would be the last person to sing the praises of the existing GNU
 build system, and I hope the fact that I lurk on this list shows that
 I like to hang around smart people in the hope of picking up some good
 ideas. However, I don't really have the time to write the next big
 build system that solves all of the growing pains of the GNU eco-system,
 and I'm almost entirely certain that even if I did... my efforts would
 go almost entirely unnoticed. Similarly, I don't have the luxury of
 letting the train leave the station without me, unless I first have
 another way of earning a living - and neither would I want to, I
 consider myself blessed that I can earn my living by being involved in,
 (and to a very small extent help to steer a proportion of) the Free
 Software community.

 On the other hand, I think that there must be room for incremental
 improvements to the incumbent GNU build system, but I doubt that I
 would see them right away when I'm so close to development of what
 is already in fashion. My ears pricked up when I saw someone claim
 that GNU Libtool is insane, because I'm interested to hear where the
 insanity lurks, and maybe even gain some insight into what the cure
 is. Not only that, I have the rare opportunity of being able to push
 the GNU build system forward if anyone can help me to understand where
 the bad design decisions were made.

 i also think it's reasonable, as anthony points out, just to avoid shared
 libraries, if that's the pain point.

 :-o For an embedded system I would agree, up to a point. But when I'm
 trying to support hundreds of users each running dozens of simultaneous
 binaries, then forcing each binary to keep it's own copy of whatever
version
 of each library (and it's dependent libraries) were around at link time
 in memory simultaneously surely can't be the best solution? Or even a
 reasonable solution. I'm not even sure that statically relinking
everything
 on the system (actually 30 different architectures in my own case) each
 time a low-level library revs so that the OS memory management can
optimise
 away all those duplicate libraries is a reasonable solution.

 sure, one can point out various
 intracacies of bootstrapping gnu c. but i think that's missing the
 point that the plan 9 community is making. many of these wounds
 are self-inflicted, and if side-stepping them gets you to a solution
faster,
 then please side step them. there's no credit for picking a scab.

 I have no doubt that the plan 9 community is doing something good for
 the future development of operating systems and software, but that doesn't
 solve anything for my customers who want to run Gnome, KDE and Emacs on
 their AIX, Solaris and HP-UX systems. I still have to build that software
 for them to make a living... and GNU Libtool makes my life immeasurably
 easier. I know this because porting an application written by a GNU
 build system using developer who only ever builds and tests on Mac OS
 usually takes much less than a day, and often no more than an hour to
 pass it's testsuite on all the platforms our customers care about. The
 packages that use cmake and scons and all the other portable build
 systems rarely take me less than a week and often 

Re: [9fans] Google code-in?

[Jacob Todd]

Code-in? Could you elaborate?
On Nov 5, 2010 1:22 PM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote:
 Google just announced a code-in. Is Plan9 participating?

 EBo --

Re: [9fans] Preferred ARM platform?

[Jacob Todd]

Iirc, at iwp9 geoff said in so many words that the beagleboard was having
problems with undocumented..stuff. The video is on livestream.com/iwp9 if
you want to watch it.

[9fans] Parallel mk?

[Jacob Todd]

Does mk ever parallel-ize? With make you have the -j# option, does mk have a
similar feature? Skimming through the man page I don't see anything.

Re: [9fans] Parallel mk?

[Jacob Todd]

Thanks andrey. Now to get plan 9 running on my core i7 thinkpad.

Re: [9fans] πp

[Jacob Todd]

Eh,  what's Πp?

Re: [9fans] wiki down?

[Jacob Todd]

Iirc eric made something to report these things to the correct people.
There's a group called 9nag on google groups that it uses.

Re: [9fans] So, why Plan 9?

[Jacob Todd]

There's APE, the Ansi Posix Environment.
On Oct 12, 2010 4:40 AM, Aleksandar Kuktin akuk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:45:02 +, Bruce Ellis wrote:

 Very succinct, and better than I could do 'til the coffee kicks in.

 You could have pointed out that the entire source tree is smaller than
 the gcc manual.

 WAT!?!

 Ahem.. pardon my manners please, but this caught me completely of guard.

 I learned of Plan 9's existence a few years back, when I was finishing my
 Linux from scratch and was out looking if there is a way to get something
 even better than a Linux. I've been lurking in this group for quite a
 while now, hoping to maybe find some easy way to merry the two systems.

 Speaking of which, is there a way to do the opposite of Plan 9 in
 userspace? That is, a way to use Unix-specific programs and libraries on
 Plan 9?

 Basically, this is what has been holding me back. I would like to switch
 to Plan 9, but still have all of my Linux programs and libraries
 available. I also dread using any virtualizators, QEMUs, Xens and other
 stuff; not because I find them hard to use, but because I don't want to
 waste CPU cycles on compatibility layers.

 Is there already an implemented.. POSIX compatibility layer, library, or
 something? Hopefully, something that is very, very thin??
 Maybe?