Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[raingloom]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:24:36 +
Giacomo Tesio  wrote:

> Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,
> 
> As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for
> is called Jehanne) and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims,
> mostly because SJW basically try to impose worldwide a US-workplace
> ethos that is compatible with US-styled corporate management.
> 
> More often than not, they are in good faith.
> But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their
> cultural hegemony. The trick is basically: convince everybody that
> they have your problems (eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender
> bias and so on) so that they will accept your corporate-friendly
> solutions (eg CoCs...)
> 
> In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's
> why I'd really like to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this
> debate.
> 
> More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues
> that amount to nothing and could be basically settled with a honest
> conversation between openminded adults.
> 
> More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
> in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much
> that they simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended
> and understood in that context.
> 
> Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird
> people, (like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the
> demographic groups that populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and
> so on.
> 
> Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their
> corporations cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that
> obtained the removal of RMS from GCC Steering Committee).
> 
> On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that
> > helps no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software
> > and count as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to
> > users) is an inherently political question. Ignoring that just
> > means that you prefer the status quo.  
> 
> I totally agree with this. [1]
> 
> Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other
> means.
> 
> I agree so much that all my free software projects include a
> POLITICS.txt that explicitly declares the political goals they have.
> 
> 
> However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
> Hackers do not cancel, we create.
> 
> If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9,
> I'm not interested.
> 
> If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd
> really like to help. But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.
> 
> I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do
> not know his takes on anything) but I think I might well work with
> him on a well defined political goal (say "document 9front internals
> so that anybody can more easily hack it").
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to
> plan9foundation's code, in which case I would't partecipate because I
> can't trust several of the founders [2].
> 
> 
> Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a
> political choice. But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.
> 
> 
> Technology is Politics.
> 
> But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
> Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.
> 
> Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> Giacomo
> 
> [1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html
> 
> [2]
> http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

I'll just note that you addressed this to me and mycroftiv instead of
that guy who said that trans people must hide their identity on the
list. And I'm not from the US.

I'm offering help in reaching out to new demographics who currently do
not feel welcome in 9fans circles. That is the opposite of exclusion. I
actually don't care much about whatever nemo did or said, I just want
to see Plan 9 getting better docs and becoming more accessible to
people who aren't unix greybeards.
Feel free to ignore my rather milquetoast political reasoning behind my
motivation for helping.

If my help is not wanted, I have other libre projects to contribute to.

ps.: Nice work on Jehanne btw, I floated the GCC port announcement by
the Guix mailing list. Would be cool to see a package/config manager
inspired by it running on Plan 9 or Jehanne.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[raingloom]

(this sat in my queue for a few days, I originally wrote it when there
were just 1-2 replies, then saw Russ's message and I held off, but it
looks like the thread is still going, so I might as well fix it
up a bit and send it.)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
mycroftiv 9gridchan  wrote:

> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

I like the idea of making Plan 9 more accepting, the techbro saturation
is too high here. I say that as someone who could rightly be classified
as such.
Not sure if rewriting the whole book just to put a different name on
the cover is the best way to go about it. Making a better book
definitely sounds good though.

Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that helps
no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software and count
as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to users) is an
inherently political question. Ignoring that just means that you prefer
the status quo.

At the very least with more inclusivity games/memo should be easier to
play in 10 years. ;)

Side note 2: I'd really like to see a bigger emphasis on accessibility
in Plan 9 software. Keyboard navigation would be a good step forward. I
think high contrast and font sizing are already taken care of, more or
less. Internationalization would be cool to support too.
I hope I'm not too much of an SJW heretic for saying that people with
imperfect motor skills (or even just different hardware) should still
be able to use computers. :)
If someone wants to reply that those people should implement those
features themselves, I recommend that they think for 2 seconds first.

As for the book, I haven't been very active in Plan 9 in a while, but
I'm up for proofreading and writing about whatever parts of Plan 9 I do
know. I can also do some illustrations in Blender.
I also volunteer my notes for possible inclusion, I have a pretty
detailed shared 9p root tutorial. It's currently not publicly available
since I took down my wiki, but I can send it here.

Peace and love. UwU

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021

[raingloom]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 03:26:35 -0800
Bakul Shah  wrote:

> Chibi-Scheme supposedly works on plan9 though I haven’t played with
> it in years.

Chibi is very broken on arm64 and possibly other architectures. I have
attempted to fix it but didn't get far.

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[9fans] BitBucket deleting hg repos

[raingloom]

I just learned about this today. There are a lot of Plan 9 related
repos there. Are they backed up anywhere?

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 on radpberry pi zero ?

[raingloom]

> Board with K210 from Kendryte: 
> https://ru-m.banggood.com/Sipeed-Maix-BIT-RISC-V-Dual-Core-64bit-CPU-With-FPU-AI-Module-Core-Board-Development-Board-Mini-PC-Learning-Board-p-1453873.html?gmcCountry=RU=RUB_warehouse=CN=1=326941415_source=googleshopping_medium=cpc_bgcs_content=lijing_campaign=pla-rug-rm-cart-0802-mb_id=375319756499=CjwKCAjwkenqBRBgEiwA-bZVtrVYU5BLvdqcXpQs-nT-R8ngDuLXHRGUHfdzpt4ui8G0W8UWQHxc2BoCzm0QAvD_BwE
>
> пн, 19 авг. 2019 г., 17:45 Ethan Gardener :
>
>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, at 2:26 PM, Олег Бахарев wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you mean something like BlackIce II (I'm under RV32I)? There is still 
>>> one interesting board (inexpensive) on the RISC V 64 bit (RV64IMAG) - if 
>>> you want I will show where to get
>>
>> Yes please

Cleaned up link with trackers removed:
https://www.banggood.com/Sipeed-Maix-BIT-RISC-V-Dual-Core-64bit-CPU-With-FPU-AI-Module-Core-Board-Development-Board-Mini-PC-Learning-Board-p-1453873.html

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 3 B+ image of 9front

[Raingloom]

Thanks! I managed to boot it but ran into some problems with my USB keyboard, 
the screen is basically flooded with "read returned 0" errors, but the mouse 
works without problems, even if I plug it in late.
I'll take a proper screenshot of the log when I have more time.


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, January 6, 2019 12:37 AM,  wrote:

> oh yeah. sorry.
>
> just do this before:
>
> bind / /n/src9
>
> i missed this because that step is implied by sys/lib/rootbind
> that i use when building iso from a separate clean repository.
>
> -
>
> cinap

Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 3 B+ image of 9front

[Raingloom]

> build bootable hjfs sdcard image
>
> =
>
> cd /sys/lib/dist
> mk /tmp/mysdcard.pi.img

This last step fails with:

mk: don’t know how to make '/n/src9/sys/lib/sysconf g/proto/cmpdistproto’ in 
directory /sys/lib/dist

[9fans] Raspberry Pi 3 B+ image of 9front

[Raingloom]

Has anyone made one? I'm trying to put one together but the Plan 9 disk tools 
are... well they are quite different to what I'm used to. I managed to build 
the kernel and the userspace (with CONF=rpi2, which is afaik the correct one 
for rpi3 too?) and am trying to mirror the partitioning of the image by Richard 
Miller (at least more or less, I'll probably have to change things for HJFS) 
and combine the contents from that and a 9front VM.
Is that a good way to go ahead?

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Raingloom]

Even if you are not in a `win` window (eg. if you are in an +Error one) you can 
use Undo. Sometimes Acme doesn't actually put Undo in the tag line, but if you 
type it out yourself it will still work. Well, at least on p9p Acme, I'm not 
sure about Plan 9 Acme.


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On May 9, 2018 5:40 PM, 刘宇宝  wrote:

> Great thanks for your idea, file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt 
> function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command, 
> a poor man's undo buffer :-D
> 
> I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with 
> /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and 
> leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.
> 
> > On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:
> > 
> > hi.
> > 
> > i think it is humour of a kind.
> > 
> > i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is 
> > not possible.
> > 
> > you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text 
> > /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the 
> > current windows id)
> > 
> > -Steve
> > 
> > On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 liuyu...@yingmi.cn wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I miss much the universal shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on
> > > > > 
> > > > > macOS, does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
> > > > 
> > > > Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
> > > > 
> > > > To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
> > > > 
> > > > also automatically provisioned, free of charge.
> > > 
> > > Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of 
> > > http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
> > > 
> > > I'm not a troll, I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days 
> > > ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
> > > 
> > > Maybe I already got the answer @_@
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Yubao Liu