Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Jon Freeman wrote: OK, so I've not long back changed folkinfo to at least enable those who premit cookies to select a preference between letter and A4 for printing pdf files from the site. Should I also consider allowing 9 x 12 as a paper size or is that pretty much reserved for publications? I don't think that should be necessary. A4 seems to be the standard paper size all over the world. USA and Canada are the only important exceptions, and they both go for US letter. For those who are interested in further reading about the topic, try: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://wwwblues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) Personally I would commend 8.25 x 11 for documents. That's the narrowest dimensions of both Letter size and A4. So it will fit on both documents. Speaking of PDF - does anyone know why when I print *any* PDF file from within Acrobat then the size is set to 8.5x11 and can't be changed? Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Sorry to top post but in this instance, I think it will be much easier for me to do it this way and save making 2 posts... The problems may vary from site to site. In our case we are currently generating pdf on the fly from abcm2ps/ghostscript. I believe both of these programs do allow a specified page width/height (currently I just tell gs the paper size as it knows A4 and letter) so it wouldn't be too big a problem. I'd rather keep things simple though and if the A4/letter option is going to suit 99% of the people 99% of the time I'm not anxious to change... The way I'm trying to work it is that rather than have a user give the paper type each time, I try to set a cookie which currently gives paper=A4 or letter. If I can read the cookie, that becomes part of the URL in the request for a page in the link provided to get the pdf, eg. as my preference is for A4, my link for a pdf could be: http://www.folkinfo.org/abctest/getpdf.php?SongID=394paper=a4 someone with a preference of letter should have: http://www.folkinfo.org/abctest/getpdf.php?SongID=394paper=letter I'd love to know how to change the pdf page setting Bernard Hill asks about. Jon - Original Message - From: Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) Personally I would commend 8.25 x 11 for documents. That's the narrowest dimensions of both Letter size and A4. So it will fit on both documents. Speaking of PDF - does anyone know why when I print *any* PDF file from within Acrobat then the size is set to 8.5x11 and can't be changed? Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, Guido - why are you compiling with A4 instead of US letter? Don't most people print sheet music using standard 8 1/2 x 11 inch Typically an American question I'm glad I'm not most people ;-) Ah, so this is what it has come down to now: US Bashing. ... (I do realize that many of us are not in the US, so this may be pure ignorance here as well). I shouldn't take so much offence. (Or even offense. g) Many in the USA do not realise (in different degrees) that the most of the rest of the world does not regard US paper sizes as in any way standard at all, but rather a rather a very strange peculiarity of North America. Your parenthetical remark is well taken by most, but the very fact you had to ask why he was using A4 does indicate a US-centric view point.Over here it is a very strange question indeed. I would never dream of asking why someone in the USA would format things for this very strange and weird non-standard 8 1/2 by 11 paper size, because the answer is obvious. The answer the other way is equally obvious. Guido, and most of the other inhabitants of Europe, and probably other continents, would probably find it somewhere between quite difficult and impossible to buy paper in that size. I have just come back from shopping at Staples where there are shelves and shelves of A4 paper in different colours and weights. I was looking for off-white 120g A4, but they had sold out of that particular one. Now they may have had some US-letter hidden away somewhere but I didn't see any (in any weight or colour), and I would really be quite surprised to find any. Just as I would be surprised to find the old UK standards foolscap and quarto. Dave David Webber Author MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk For discussion/support see http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
On Fri, Jan 02, 2004 at 11:55:23AM +0100, Frank Nordberg wrote: Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) It's another argument for providing the source as well ... -- Richard Robinson The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Jon Freeman writes: | From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Actually, if you look at music published in the US, you'll have | trouble finding any that is printed on the 8.5x11-inch letter size | paper. Music is usually printed on larger pages. The most common size | is 9x12 inches, but there are many other sizes. It's impossible to | make a shelf of printed music look neat and orderly. There is a | common conspiracy theory that this done to make it difficult for | people to copy the music. But these sizes long predate the advent of | copiers, so that theory doesn't really explain the mess. | | OK, so I've not long back changed folkinfo to at least enable those who | premit cookies to select a preference between letter and A4 for printing pdf | files from the site. Should I also consider allowing 9 x 12 as a paper size | or is that pretty much reserved for publications? I only know the UK | situation where you would expect everyone to have A4 for thier printer. Here in the US, most people have only letter 8.5x11-inch paper at home, because that's mostly what is sold in retail office-supply stores. All the small copiers that I've ever seen will accept larger paper, but you have to special-order 9x12 paper. The most practical approach for software would be to give people a choice of at least A4 and US letter pages, and have some way for the software to remember this. Even better would be to let people give the actual size of the paper in both cm and inches, with the two common sizes selectable by a button or an A4/letter option of some sort. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Fri, Jan 02, 2004 at 11:55:23AM +0100, Frank Nordberg wrote: Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) Hence my argument for using 8.25 x 11. Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Bernard Hill writes: | | Much music in the UK is printed on B4 paper, or close to it... | | I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should | be allowed to specify your own. Good idea in general. For example, I've been contacted by a few people involved in such things as marching bands and other similar music. These typically use a small music-holder lyre on many instrument. There is a bit of variability in the paper size, but it's much smaller than the usual A4 and letter pages, for obvious reasons. I don't have any on hand, but I think in the US it's about 6x4 inches, which would be 15x10 cm. And, since the music is fairly close to the face, it can be smaller than for most other printed music. The ability to specify both page size and scaling (as abc2ps and its clones do) is quite valuable for such uses. Here in New England there are a number of groups who do Revolutionary War reenactment groups who use this music format. Further south, you see the same thing at Civil War reenactments. My wife and I have played for both on various occasions. She likes to tell people about ancestors who fought in both wars and on on both sides. (They weren't the same ancestors in both wars, of course.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most practical approach for software would be to give people a choice of at least A4 and US letter pages, and have some way for the software to remember this. In Windows software the conventions are very simple. There's a Page Setup (or Print Setup) command on the File menu which lets y9ou select any paper size which your printer driver can accomodate. When you start a new document it should start up assuming a paper size which was set last time you acceessed the printer's paper size selection dialogue. Other possibilities involve accessing the locale information (for example if no printer is sel;ected) and deciding from there. But bernard's sugestion of ensuring large enough margins that the music will fit on the intersection of an A4 and US-Letter page is a good one. I try and do it myself in MOZART's supplied examples. Dave David Webber Author MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk For discussion/support see http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
On 2 Jan 2004, at 08:15, Frank Nordberg wrote: Jon Freeman wrote: OK, so I've not long back changed folkinfo to at least enable those who premit cookies to select a preference between letter and A4 for printing pdf files from the site. Should I also consider allowing 9 x 12 as a paper size or is that pretty much reserved for publications? I don't think that should be necessary. A4 seems to be the standard paper size all over the world. USA and Canada are the only important exceptions, and they both go for US letter. For those who are interested in further reading about the topic, try: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html A fascinating site for the true nerd. It also has a link to this site: http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/PS.htm This is a site dedicated to biblical numerology, wherein the author proves quite conclusively that the dimensions of the A4 page, along with other features of the ISO 216 stationery standard including the number 216 itself were fortold in the Bible. We must therefore enjoin our American cousins to forsake their pagan paper sizes (letter, legal ledger etc.) and cleave only to the one true stationery standard prescribed in holy scripture. And a Happy New Year to all of you! Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes A fascinating site for the true nerd. It also has a link to this site: http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/PS.htm This is a site dedicated to biblical numerology, wherein the author proves quite conclusively that the dimensions of the A4 page, along with other features of the ISO 216 stationery standard including the number 216 itself were fortold in the Bible. Is that the one that also claims Nuclear holocaust in 2006? -- Stephen Kellett Object Media Limitedhttp://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk RSI Information:http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stephen Kellett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes A fascinating site for the true nerd. It also has a link to this site: http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/PS.htm This is a site dedicated to biblical numerology, wherein the author proves quite conclusively that the dimensions of the A4 page, along with other features of the ISO 216 stationery standard including the number 216 itself were fortold in the Bible. Is that the one that also claims Nuclear holocaust in 2006? No. Not as far as I've read. Isn't that the Bible Code? Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
At 05:40 PM 1/2/04 +, Phil Taylor wrote:
We must therefore enjoin our American cousins to forsake their pagan
paper sizes (letter, legal ledger etc.) and cleave only to the one true
stationery standard prescribed in holy scripture.
Well, the biblical associations on that site aren't exactly positive ones,
though Mr. Jenkins doesn't make that explicit:
-- 666 (the number Jenkins unpacks 216 to as 6 x 6 x 6, and the width in mm
of six A4 sheets less the length of two A4 sheets) is the number signifying
Antichrist
-- 1260 (the width in mm of six A4 sheets) is in the book as the number of
days in Antichrist's reign
So I think I'll resist the Beast by sticking to my US Letter ;-D
*
* Jerome Colburn (;-{=''',,,=*
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
*
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Re: Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Hi Jon, Thanks for the reassurance. I didn't mean to sound too bitter, it was just that it seemed my original disclaimer of ignorance was not read. Don't worry. I'm not that easily turned away from a group. :-) Thanks, Chris From: Jon Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/01/02 Fri AM 04:18:27 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions Hi Chris, I know I'm the other side of the pond but I think you are over reacting. Stick around. Jon - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions Ah, so this is what it has come down to now: US Bashing. OK, I can take it, but I did caveat my previous posting with the following parenthetical: (I do realize that many of us are not in the US, so this may be pure ignorance here as well). So, bashing aside, a simple answer to the question was probably more appropriate, unless my tasteless stateside ignorance is too much of a distraction to contribute anything of worth to a discussion. And now that I have such an answer, I can take the appropriate measures. Thanks for an answer between the lines. -Chris On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, Guido - why are you compiling with A4 instead of US letter? Don't most people print sheet music using standard 8 1/2 x 11 inch Typically an American question I'm glad I'm not most people ;-) -- Martin Tarenskeen To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Christopher Myers em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: chrismyers001 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html Christopher Myers em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: chrismyers001 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
