Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator [New]
Hi/ I recently signed up to this list, and to the digest. Could someone possibly point me to info on accessing the latter, so that I could catch up on current issues? Is there A FAQ, maybe? Thanks. /RWWT On Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 01:34 AM, Remo D. wrote: I realized that the overlay operator is the only one that moves the time backward. snip>
RE: [abcusers] Overlay operator [New]
http://www.mail-archive.com/abcusers%40argyll.wisemagic.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of RWW Taylor Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RWW Taylor Subject: Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator [New] Hi/ I recently signed up to this list, and to the digest. Could someone possibly point me to info on accessing the latter, so that I could catch up on current issues? Is there A FAQ, maybe? Thanks. /RWWT On Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 01:34 AM, Remo D. wrote: I realized that the overlay operator is the only one that moves the time backward. snip To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator
On 10 Nov 2004, at 06:34, Remo D. wrote: I realized that the overlay operator is the only one that moves the time backward. I think the 2.0 standard is not very clear on this operator, I'll try to summarize how it will implemented in ABCp, of course everything is subject to discussions and comments from your side!! Reading both the standard and the abcm2ps docs I understood the syntax should work as follows: (a=b means a is vertically aligned with b) 1) splits a measure GA | bc de | Fg-- d = b, e = c OK. 2) Duration counts! GA | bc e2 | Fg-- e2 = b OK. 3) overaly may occur on multiple measures G(A | bc d | F)g -- d = A, F = b, g = c No, I think the operator sets the time back to the bar line, so this should be A=G d=b (bar doesn't add up) and g=F. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? but some questions are left unanswered: 1) What is durations don't match? Should we add rests or give an error? GA | b de | Fg-- d =b, e=? Definitely give an error. If the user really wants |[bd] e | here he can write that, or use an invisible rest | b x de |. 2) The example on the abc2.0 standard page seems to suggest that the operator splits the line and not the measure. I assume the example is from an old proposal and should be read as: (g4 f4 | e6 e2 \ (d8 | c6) c2 ) I don't understand that either. 3) The abc2.0 standard present it as voice overlay but they do not really defines a separate voice (as the V: field does), correct? Yes. It's a way of writing overlapping chords within a single voice. 4) What's the meaning of ? I found it in a couple of examples around. An error? I haven't a clue. 5) Anything else I missed on overlays? Let me know your thoughts. MusicXML has an equivalent backup operator which takes a numerical value which indicates how far the time point should be backed up. The time point may not be backed up further than the previous bar line. There is also a matching forward tag, which is essentially an invisible rest. Unfortunately these get horribly over used, so that a piano part where several voices are being played by one hand will be written with that hand all in one voice, with lots of backup and forward tags in each measure. The result is impossible to read and also tricky to parse. Let's not go there! Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator
Phil Taylor wrote: On 10 Nov 2004, at 06:34, Remo D. wrote: 3) overaly may occur on multiple measures G(A | bc d | F)g -- d = A, F = b, g = c No, I think the operator sets the time back to the bar line, so this should be A=G d=b (bar doesn't add up) and g=F. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I don't saw the ( ... ... ) construct in the standard, but only in the abcm2ps documentation files (features.txt and sample3.abc). The standard only describes the operator. From the abcm2ps files, I could unterstand that the ( ... ... ) construct is designed for *multiple bars* overlay. Please note that otherwise the tokens ( and ) were useless. However, in my opinion (consonant with Phil Taylor opinion), using ( ... ... ) makes the source very difficult to read, and that's why I never used it. Regards. Hudson Lacerda P.S. In the file sample3.abc (from abcm2ps) there are some , but (using that program) they have the same effect of the simple . I cannot understand it neither. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator
We use the ( ) construct all the time. We use ABC to capture vocal music for doing rehearsal tapes. There are many places in vocal music where a single part (such as the Bass part) splits into two voices (Baritone and Bass) for a short time (such as two four bar phrases). Without the ( ) construct there are only two ways to do this: 1) Create a separate voice for the Baritones that is a complete copy of the Bass part except for the eight different bars. 2) Use the construct without the ( and have to do each bar separately. Option number 1 is a pain because typos in the score have to be found in two different parts. Option number 2 makes the phrasing harder to read. Here is a three bar phrase done in the two ways: % page 2 - line 2 - measure 4 [V:S] z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF | [V:A] x8 | x8 | x8 | [V:T] z8 | z8 | z8 | [V:B] z4 z2 GF z4 z2 EA | G6 z G/2F/2 E6 z E/2A/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF ED DE/2D/2-D2 EF | % page 2 - line 2 - measure 4 [V:S] z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF | [V:A] x8 | x8 | x8 | [V:T] z8 | z8 | z8 | [V:B] ( z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF % Bass1 z4 z2 EA | E6 z E/2A/2 | ED DE/2D/2-D2 EF ) | % Bass2 I think that doing it with the ( construct is much easier to read. tom Hudson Lacerda said: Phil Taylor wrote: On 10 Nov 2004, at 06:34, Remo D. wrote: 3) overaly may occur on multiple measures G(A | bc d | F)g -- d = A, F = b, g = c No, I think the operator sets the time back to the bar line, so this should be A=G d=b (bar doesn't add up) and g=F. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I don't saw the ( ... ... ) construct in the standard, but only in the abcm2ps documentation files (features.txt and sample3.abc). The standard only describes the operator. From the abcm2ps files, I could unterstand that the ( ... ... ) construct is designed for *multiple bars* overlay. Please note that otherwise the tokens ( and ) were useless. However, in my opinion (consonant with Phil Taylor opinion), using ( ... ... ) makes the source very difficult to read, and that's why I never used it. Regards. Hudson Lacerda P.S. In the file sample3.abc (from abcm2ps) there are some , but (using that program) they have the same effect of the simple . I cannot understand it neither. -- tom satter - or just plain old tom (303) 543-7623 (home) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator
Ok, I'll try to implement both and ( ... ... ) . Hudson is right, the latter only appears in the abcm2ps docs but Tom gave a good example of how useful it could be. I noticed that Tom used instead of , should I consider and as synonyms? I'll take Phil's suggestion of emetting an error when durations don't match or, if it's not too difficult, I'll try to emit a warning and recover through the insertion of, possibly invisible, rests. Let's see how hard is it. R.D. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Overlay operator
Very good sample! It's noted that the source formatation (vertical alignment of the corresponding measures) is crucial for reading. Hudson Tom Satter wrote: We use the ( ) construct all the time. We use ABC to capture vocal music for doing rehearsal tapes. There are many places in vocal music where a single part (such as the Bass part) splits into two voices (Baritone and Bass) for a short time (such as two four bar phrases). Without the ( ) construct there are only two ways to do this: 1) Create a separate voice for the Baritones that is a complete copy of the Bass part except for the eight different bars. 2) Use the construct without the ( and have to do each bar separately. Option number 1 is a pain because typos in the score have to be found in two different parts. Option number 2 makes the phrasing harder to read. Here is a three bar phrase done in the two ways: % page 2 - line 2 - measure 4 [V:S] z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF | [V:A] x8 | x8 | x8 | [V:T] z8 | z8 | z8 | [V:B] z4 z2 GF z4 z2 EA | G6 z G/2F/2 E6 z E/2A/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF ED DE/2D/2-D2 EF | % page 2 - line 2 - measure 4 [V:S] z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF | [V:A] x8 | x8 | x8 | [V:T] z8 | z8 | z8 | [V:B] ( z4 z2 GF | G6 z G/2F/2 | GD DE/2D/2-D2 GF % Bass1 z4 z2 EA | E6 z E/2A/2 | ED DE/2D/2-D2 EF ) | % Bass2 I think that doing it with the ( construct is much easier to read. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Overlay operator
I realized that the overlay operator is the only one that moves the time backward. I think the 2.0 standard is not very clear on this operator, I'll try to summarize how it will implemented in ABCp, of course everything is subject to discussions and comments from your side!! Reading both the standard and the abcm2ps docs I understood the syntax should work as follows: (a=b means a is vertically aligned with b) 1) splits a measure GA | bc de | Fg-- d = b, e = c 2) Duration counts! GA | bc e2 | Fg-- e2 = b 3) overaly may occur on multiple measures G(A | bc d | F)g -- d = A, F = b, g = c but some questions are left unanswered: 1) What is durations don't match? Should we add rests or give an error? GA | b de | Fg-- d =b, e=? 2) The example on the abc2.0 standard page seems to suggest that the operator splits the line and not the measure. I assume the example is from an old proposal and should be read as: (g4 f4 | e6 e2 \ (d8 | c6) c2 ) 3) The abc2.0 standard present it as voice overlay but they do not really defines a separate voice (as the V: field does), correct? 4) What's the meaning of ? I found it in a couple of examples around. 5) Anything else I missed on overlays? Let me know your thoughts. R.D. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
