Hi,
Le 07/10/2023 à 23:25, Michael Weghorn a écrit :
Hi Jean-Philippe,
On 2023-10-07 06:19, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL wrote:
Nice to start chatting with you, I heard of you at Libocon via
COlomban you met there and worling with my organization. I am glad if
I can help you working on LO accessibility given the high needed job.
For your info, as a "power user"/tester, I mainly use Linux and I use
Libreoffice latest stable (in Sid on Debian). Hypa uses an older one
due to bugs that COlomban will show you, but the bug tracker mentions
most of them, reported by me and my former colleague.
great to hear from you and thanks a lot for the work so far, your input
and offer to help further. I'm looking forward to continue working
together!
I'd definitely be interested in hearing what regressions are currently
preventing Hypra from updating to a current LibreOffice version.
(There are currently more than 200 accessibility-related tickets in
Bugzilla; knowing which are the ones that Hypra considers blockers would
be helpful.)
Yes, COlomban is working for this. I gave him my nputs, he now tries to
give a better technical base and reproduction scenarios. To sum up my
current feeling, the main problems is the style dialog, where browsing
with the caret is very difficult to edit and tweak styles, the browser
(f5) whose behaviour is not stable, and some dialogs where browing is
very hard (eg. this to number chapters, in Tools menu). The style dialog
being the most problematic as what is sent to the accessibility infra is
really difficult to use for a screen reader, I tried to run an automated
test suite producing code to reproduce scenarios from the at-spi events
and this dialog sent really not relevant info.
Actually I think something needs to be explained: using screen readers
like Orca or NVDA, we consider as accessible information what may be
reached via the caret, ie. what you can move with tab key or the arrow
keys. Using advanced features to access to the information, eg. object
navigation or flat review, is not optimal. It might work, but not
everybody know it and is it considered as a kind of hack to workaround
accessibility limitations.
For dialogs that present information without allowing to change
anything, like the case of the word count dialog ("Tools" -> "Word
Count") discussed here:
Would you still expect to be able to navigate within the dialog text
using tab or arrow keys?
Yes. In comparison, in Thunderbird, when having a dialog (a question for
instance), the caret can switch to OK, Cancel, and the message box,
enabling to say it. Of course in such case not other ineraction is
possible, but the movement is and makes it accessible.
Or would the expectation rather be that the dialog content is announced
by the screen reader automatically when the dialog gets shown?
I think such behavior would be acceptable, but when the user needs to
repeat the info, it is always more simple if he can see it via tab or
keys I think. Screen readers dont't have always a feature to repeat the
last message and the last message may be interrupted by another (a
notification, a movement on the keyboard without consequence, etc)
So far, I was thinking more about the latter. This would also match the
current behavior of other info/warning dialogs, like the one that gets
shown when closing the document with unsaved changes.
Right, same problem, in particular, for example, when the filename is
not friendly for a speech synth, requiring repeating.
I think that's a screen reader issue. You should probably report it
to NVDA.
Unfortunately I am not sure. I Cc Joanmarie Diggs, main Orca
developer, who can confirm or give you technical explanations. DOnt
hesitate to subscribe to the orca mailing list where all the community
activity takes place:
https://www.freelists.org/list/orca
I think if the screen reader is unable to announce a mismelled word
while speaking the current line or saying all the document, it is
because it does not get the info from the accessibilit tree.
That sounds plausible. As mentioned in my previous email, I'm planning
to take a closer look at this. Since it works with other applications
(like Word or Thunderbird) and NVDA is free and open source, too, I'm
optimistic that it'll be possible to identify what's missing on either
LibreOffice or NVDA side.
Great, many thanks
Best regards
(According to Jason, this already works as expected with Orca on Linux.)
Best regards,
Michael
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