[libreoffice-accessibility] Between Brno and Brussels
Hi, We could discuss, at LibreCon Brno, the situation of accessibility of LibreOffice now. I was glad to see that people were interested in improving it, fixing bugs or adding new features which could make LO a really novative productivity suite for disabled people (in particular on Impress or Writer). Here's a talk where I show the concrete consequences of accessibility issues (on September), and how anyone could deal with most problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zmTDVN4C4c Since this, a lot of work has be done by dev and design teams. Many thanks! I'll test it mainly when 5.3 is released and we will maintain up-to-date the status of the situation. We also discussed the opportunity to introduce automated tests, eg. in continuous integration process, to avoid the easiest accessibility bugs. For example, a target in Makefile could test shat, in GTK widgets (parsing xml files generated by Glade), all labels are filled. It's one of the conditions to make it accessible later. I plan to discuss this for next FOSDEM conference in Brussels. If someone is interested in working on it with me, don't hesitate. I'm not a technician, but I can help if needed testing, doing feedback, or whatever. Once this tool would be integrated, we can think of the following steps to ensure more a11y still. Any feedback is welcome. Many thanks again to LO community for this work! And I hope I'll help with QA tests, better than I have done so far due to lack of time since Brno. Best regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail: cont...@hypra.fr Site Web: http://hypra.fr -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] A11y regressions
Hi, Thanks Sophie. I wait for any feedback. I'm aware I should fill bugs, and I'll try doing it. But for example, so far, the caret lost in tables, bug !eported by Jeanmarie Diggs, hasn't been confirmed or handled at all. So I'm worry as bugs are not handled, for obvious reasons (volunteers), but other come. Hence my worry. Anyway I'll try to fill bugs again. And hope this mail will start a common thought process. Regards, Le 21/03/2016 15:24, Sophie a écrit : > Hi Jean-Philippe, > > Sorry for top posting, but just to let you know that I've contacted the > UX/Design team about your mail and will follow-up on this. > Best would be that we fill bug on each regression you found on master, > but I'll come back to you about this once I've an overview of who will > deal with them. > Cheers > Sophie > Le 21/03/2016 14:10, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe a écrit : >> Hi, >> >> I just want to report that LO a11y is regressing more and more between >> each new release. The latest usable on Linux was 4.2.6. After known >> regressions in 4.3, things go down. I now test 5.1.1, and now it's >> really hard. 1st in Writer, access to format and style bar becomes (ery >> difficult with keyboard. Next, tables are still nearly impossible to be >> browsed properly. Bullets are not spoken at all and don't appear. >> >> In Calc, strong lag at filling cells, even in little tables. Weird >> characters in braille which fill the cells and hide the proper text. >> Some cells are not read, interface is not accessible. Well... I can >> report bugs, but I'm worry. A11y tends not to be considered at all in >> developments by anyone. >> >> To make Writer accessible, work is estimated for 4 months, 6 euros, >> with 1 certificated LO dev + screen reader expert. While I'm thinking of >> how to finance this, LO should at least be aware of the problem to set a >> policy in order to avoid future regressions. Noawadays, LO is broken, on >> Linux as on Windows, while Linux had advance. >> >> Well, I wanted to report the problem. If I can help in some thoughts >> (non-reg test, review to fix situation, etc), LO should work actively >> with Igalia and Collabora to fix things. Otherwise, we can imagine a >> come back on Office at work for impaired people. At least, please alert >> all devs of this bad tendance. >> >> Regards, >> > > -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail: cont...@hypra.fr Site Web: http://hypra.fr -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-accessibility] About Hypra
Hi, I've talked to LO community about Hypra during FOSDEM, as we work on accessibility, e.g. Orca, MATE, NVDA, etc. We plan to work on LibreOffice accessibility or, at least, to help working on it. But now the website is translated, I think it is more useful to introduce it: http://hypra.fr/?-Home-17-=en Our main release is a ;iveCD, based on Debian, with Orca and all a11y stack active for any people (blind, sighted impaired, etc). We use LO 4.2, as newer releases have so much bugs (in particular in tables on Writer). For next month, we will release a full list of features we found in Jaws, NVDA, ZoomText and SuperNova and not present in Orca and Linux, so that users could tell us whet should be prioritary to be developped. This base will include some features in LO related to Impress, Calc and Writer. On this basis, we'll submit patches to add features, including technical discussions with you about the good approach (what is for Orca, for at-spi, for the application, etc). Now we've the basic platform, we can start developping improvements and submitting them. Best regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail:cont...@hypra.fr Site Web:http://hypra.fr -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL HYPRA, progressons ensemble Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61 Mail: cont...@hypra.fr Site Web: http://hypra.fr -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi, Who reports the bug? Does someone want to try? Should I do? Regards, Le 17/12/2014 13:05, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) Ok, so posting the bug report sounds like a great idea to me. I think just go for it! There is a drop-down in the bug reporting system that lets you mark it as a feature request. I think marking it that way would make more sense to devs. Stuart's posts might be useful, or might give you something to add later. A lot of people just post bug reports without asking anyone else what they think and it sounds like you are a LOT more experienced with the issues. So it was really kind to ask what we thought! Just go for it though :) Thanks :) Regards from Tom :) On 17 December 2014 at 11:47, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi First of, I work on translation myself, alone in translating into Swedish at the moment, so I'm well aware of these translation issues. ;) In this particular case I believe that we can avoid extra workload on the translation team. At least when it comes to the change/fix that I have in mind. The problem in this case is strictly a Windows accessibility issue were the shortcut string is already displayed in the menu entries but not forwarded to accessibility tools. Now what I believe needs to be done is to find the correct place to actually forward the information, it is already forwarded on Mac and Linux. Finding the correct place to change is not that easy, but I believe that it can be done without effecting the translation team. Again I'm not taking about adding new strings to menu entries just use the information that is already present and present it to accessibility tools as well. Note that I'm swamped with work (at my daytime job) and when I get some spare time I need to work on the translation and spend time with my ~4 months old baby girl. This is also one of the reasons why I thought a bug should be filed so we can keep track of the bug, and I can add my findings as I try to narrow in on the issue. Thereby also making it easier for someone else to complete the work if I can't find the time. Regards, Niklas Johansson Tom Davies skrev den 2014-12-16 14:15: Hi :) Ok, so best left for a couple of months. I have a feeling we might have managed to stay on topic, or at least get back to the original problem! However that is so rare i can't quite believe it! @ Niklas, does that address the issue at all? Regards from Tom :) On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tom, all, Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where it could be considered as wasted time for localizers. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to translated words. Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team, once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscribe@ global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web:
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi, So if I understood all this thread: 1. Yes, LibreOffice presents to Iaccessible2, thus NVDA, the accelerator checking on the box Reading objects shortcuts. 2. No, LibreOffice doesn't send to Iaccessible2 the shortcut of the objects which have one, such as ctrl-o, ctrl-p, ctrl-x, etc. Should I report this to bugzilla now? Regards, Le 12/12/2014 18:00, V Stuart Foote a écrit : @Tom, *, No, you're asking the right question. But you do need to look under the bonnet from time to time. Within the LibreOffice code there are two broad classes of keyboard accelerators. One is associated with the .uno action associated with each object in the user interface. The other are specific key functions defined globally. Most of the current implementation can be reviewed here: Other than the GenericCommands.xcu, different modules assign access keys as needed http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/ These are the global keyboard accelerator/short-cut keys and each LibreOffice module responds in some fashion to them. The KEY_MOD1 and KEY_MOD2 differ depending on OS. http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/source/window/keycod.cxx The native accessibility bridges handle only the first, the access keys. But does so pretty effectively at this point. Enhancement would be to do as Mozilla and Adobe (and I assume Google) have done, and simply label each menu item (or button) with its keyboard accelerator/short-cut key as appropriate for the function. The rub would come with needing to accommodate keys for each OS and possibly UI issues with the l10n/i18n support. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132420.html Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re : [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LO and Mac
Hi. Thanks for this info. Actually I wonder how LO behaves with voiceover, that is, is it possible to browse between toolbars, in the menus, the dialogs, etc. For example, is it easy to handle styles and charachters formatting? The question is asked to me by a blind user to do tests. I am aware of the lack of resource for this architectuure, but I wonder if someone tested anyway; Regards - Alex Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 03/12/2014 00:52, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe a écrit : Hi Jean-Philippe Does someone is LibreOffice is accessible with VoiceOver as 4.3.4? Accessible in which way ? My recent testing of VoiceOver on OSX 10.10.1 and LO 4334 and master build 4.5.0 alpha shows that it mostly works for announcing text paragraphs from a pre-existing Writer document and using keyboard commands to jump from one text block to another. I haven't tested speech input, if that is what you are asking about. There is an open, as yet unconfirmed, bug report that speech input stopped working with LO 4.3. The simple fact of the matter is that there are very few Mac QA testers, and even fewer that use or need VoiceOver, one of the reasons being that assistive technology tools tended to cause LO to crash in previous versions, and thus general advice was to deactivate them when using LO. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Re : [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: LO and Mac
Hi, Thanks for this excellent answer, full and clear. I will forward it to my friend. He uses Mac yes, and would like to know the accessibility level on LO. Unfortunately he doesn't speak English, but I do interface without problems. Thanks, Best regards, Le 03/12/2014 14:56, Niklas Johansson a écrit : Hi Jean-Philippe Well, I'd say that we have basic working accessibility support on Mac. It is by far the platform that needs most love when it comes to accessibility. But it is possible to work with VoiceOver to edit text, Calc sheets and so on. Basic text formatting such as bold, italic, font size and alignment is available thanks to Boris work one and a half year ago. Also information of spelling errors can be presented. Style formatting is worse, I guess an ugly way to find out the current style is to open Styles and formatting by pressing Command + T, the current style is sadly not presented automatically so you need to arrow down one and back up again to have the style presented. We have problems with all menus except top level menus, so in other words combo boxes, drop down buttons and context menus are not accessible at the moment. Also VoiceOver commands are not always implemented correctly so keyboard shortcuts don't always work as in other Mac applications. LibreOffice had issues with text boxes in dialogs, but I believe I have found a way to fix it, or possibly someone else have fixed it in master during my experimentations with the code, either way it will likely be fixed soon. I'll keep trying to improve the situation but to be honest my knowledge is not always good enough, but I learn as I go. I'm doing this in my spare time and it is quite frankly I do not have enough spare time. I'm alone in translating into Swedish so I'm quite swamped with translation work at the moment. I would love to have contact with anyone that might be using VoiceOver. Regards, Niklas Johansson MENGUAL Jean-Philippe skrev den 2014-12-03 10:38: Hi. Thanks for this info. Actually I wonder how LO behaves with voiceover, that is, is it possible to browse between toolbars, in the menus, the dialogs, etc. For example, is it easy to handle styles and charachters formatting? The question is asked to me by a blind user to do tests. I am aware of the lack of resource for this architectuure, but I wonder if someone tested anyway; Regards - Alex Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 03/12/2014 00:52, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe a écrit : Hi Jean-Philippe Does someone is LibreOffice is accessible with VoiceOver as 4.3.4? Accessible in which way ? My recent testing of VoiceOver on OSX 10.10.1 and LO 4334 and master build 4.5.0 alpha shows that it mostly works for announcing text paragraphs from a pre-existing Writer document and using keyboard commands to jump from one text block to another. I haven't tested speech input, if that is what you are asking about. There is an open, as yet unconfirmed, bug report that speech input stopped working with LO 4.3. The simple fact of the matter is that there are very few Mac QA testers, and even fewer that use or need VoiceOver, one of the reasons being that assistive technology tools tended to cause LO to crash in previous versions, and thus general advice was to deactivate them when using LO. Alex -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-accessibility] LO and Mac
Hi, Does someone is LibreOffice is accessible with VoiceOver as 4.3.4? Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Calc and Accessibility
Le 14/10/2014 19:44, V Stuart Foote a écrit : David, Nope, still broken. However remains easily worked around with an F2 change to formula bar and Esc to return to spreadsheet table and regain focus for the cell. After that, should have AccEvent announcement of cursor driven movement. However, the more problematic is that the table cell accessible role is not correct when anything other than numeric values are in the cell. Also when cells are empty NVDA sounds a Zero rather than blank--that is an NVDA issue. Is it reported to NVDA bugzilla? Regards, Stuart ___ From: David Goldfield Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:48 AM Subject: [libreoffice-accessibility] Calc and Accessibility Hi. As of the 9/30/14 daily build of LibreOffice 4.3.3, I am still not receiving verbal feedback while moving from one cell to the next using arrow keys. This is with NVDA 2014.3. I posted a comment to this effect in bug 81264 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81264 I wanted to point this out as I was under the impression that this was corrected in 4.3.3. Does anyone have any further info about this? David Goldfield -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-accessibility] Checking spell
Hi, Has someone tested the 4.2.4 release of LO and the Check spell feature? Do you think it's accessible? On my Linux, if I can browse in the dialog with tab, it's impossible to see the mispelled words and suggestions through this dialog. There's a workaround, but I believe it worked in previous releases. Is that a reproductible problem for you? Should we fill a bug report? Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-accessibility] Is ins-f1 useful?
Hi, I'd like to know if, with orca or nvda, ins-f1 can be useful. It seems it displays a description of the item where is the focus. But is any assistive technology able to read this info? How could we have a similar capability? If I remember correctly, on Word, when we did ins-f1, then arrow keys, then Enter, it displayed the description. Is that a similar thing here? Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-accessibility] A11y status of libreoffice
Hi, New info arrive to me about libreoffice accessibility, but they are confusing and my tests are not relevant. So I'd like you to make a point for me about accessibipty in libreoffice 4.2. Does it need Java Access Bridge? I had understood no, but without it, I cannot access to the menubar and interact with Writer. Does it work with Jaws? And NVDA? Is there a mandatory checkbox in Options menu? Does it make LibreOffice accessible without Java Access Bridge? Thanp for all your answers. Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
