Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
well changes will only come with we taking steps to make people believe what we can do, inspite of our blindness. At 07:41 PM 4/17/2010, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That's why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in with warm regards Mahendra Galani window's live ID mahendragal...@hotmail.com skype ID chintu3886 phone +4314943149 mobile +4369910366055, address Herbst strasse 101.16.1 Vienna Austria Europe - To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Dear Sirs, If person has any disease such high BP, and he doesn’t mansion on the card, it does mean that he is trying to escape from the problem, or he or she is hiding something from the world, or he or she is Acting like an ostrich Sorry to say but I don’t see any benefit of writing disability on the card. It will simply destroy our chances of expectance at many places. Without manssioning disability at least we will have an opportunity to prove ourself. I think my example of trading account is enough. And I strongly believe that many of you have experienced the same at some point. At the same time we should have separate disability card, so we can produce it where ever it necessary. Let me tell you again that I am not trying to hurt anybody. I am learning from you all. Thanks. On 4/18/10, sandeep singh sandeepsingh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Acting like an ostrich will not do. If we are disabled in some way, we have to acknowledge it and if others don't, well, that's what we are fighting for! If we keep being afraid of being disabled, the world won't care anyway. Regards, Sandeep At 12:11 AM 18-04-10, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That's why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Hi all, I agree with Jignesh. What is necessary is a separate disability certificate. Best regards, Rahul On 18 April 2010 11:30, jignesh thakur jigneshthaku...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Sirs, If person has any disease such high BP, and he doesn’t mansion on the card, it does mean that he is trying to escape from the problem, or he or she is hiding something from the world, or he or she is Acting like an ostrich Sorry to say but I don’t see any benefit of writing disability on the card. It will simply destroy our chances of expectance at many places. Without manssioning disability at least we will have an opportunity to prove ourself. I think my example of trading account is enough. And I strongly believe that many of you have experienced the same at some point. At the same time we should have separate disability card, so we can produce it where ever it necessary. Let me tell you again that I am not trying to hurt anybody. I am learning from you all. Thanks. On 4/18/10, sandeep singh sandeepsingh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Acting like an ostrich will not do. If we are disabled in some way, we have to acknowledge it and if others don't, well, that's what we are fighting for! If we keep being afraid of being disabled, the world won't care anyway. Regards, Sandeep At 12:11 AM 18-04-10, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That's why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling uncomfortable about their identity will always tell others that they have a poor self esteem. Like how Africans defined blackness with the phrase Black is beautiful I wouldn't mind telling people that blindness has its own beauty and serenity We are not exactly conveying our equality with others by merely talking about our rights, we do that only by making others understand that we are like them in every other aspects. So if I want to announce my disability to convey my different'ness and also express the desire to be a part of the greater humanity, I shall do that. I remember posting a poem by Ben Okary called 'To an English friend in Africa' in which he says: ... So fear not my friend, the darkness is gentler than you think. This is what I mean by being at ease about our condition in life. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of jignesh thakur Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:31 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Dear Sirs, If person has any disease such high BP, and he doesn't mansion on the card, it does mean that he is trying to escape from the problem, or he or she is hiding something from the world, or he or she is Acting like an ostrich Sorry to say but I don't see any benefit of writing disability on the card. It will simply destroy our chances of expectance at many places. Without manssioning disability at least we will have an opportunity to prove ourself. I think my example of trading account is enough. And I strongly believe that many of you have experienced the same at some point. At the same time we should have separate disability card, so we can produce it where ever it necessary. Let me tell you again that I am not trying to hurt anybody. I am learning from you all. Thanks. On 4/18/10, sandeep singh sandeepsingh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Acting like an ostrich will not do. If we are disabled in some way, we have to acknowledge it and if others don't, well, that's what we are fighting for! If we keep being afraid of being disabled, the world won't care anyway. Regards, Sandeep At 12:11 AM 18-04-10, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
I understand this concern, which is expressed widespread in various forums I attend. Of course, there won't be a pogrom against disability, but as you say there has to be first a non-discrimination law which not only mentions disability, but also other more important factors like religion caste etc. Given that people purchase our Email ids, which is kind of virtual identity for many of us, and then spam us (which is worse than gassing in my opinion), it is quite possible that our details may land up in the hands of unscrupulous elements. I am reminded of Day of the Jackal in which the killer assumes the identity of a dead man and presents himself in his name. Probably this could very well happen. As part of the legal fraternity, you guys must press for the non discrimination law before UID is implemented which is the only safety net for us. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of rahul cherian Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling uncomfortable about their identity will always tell others that they have a poor self esteem. Like how Africans defined blackness with the phrase Black is beautiful I wouldn't mind telling people that blindness has its own beauty and serenity We are not exactly conveying our equality with others by merely talking about our rights, we do that only by making others understand that we are like them in every other aspects. So if I want to announce my disability to convey my different'ness and also express the desire to be a part of the greater humanity, I shall do that. I remember posting a poem by Ben Okary called 'To an English friend in Africa' in which he says: ... So fear not my friend, the darkness is gentler than you think. This is what I mean by being at ease about our condition in life. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of jignesh thakur Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:31 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Dear Sirs, If person has any disease such high BP, and he doesn't mansion on the card, it does mean that he is trying to escape from the problem, or he or she is hiding something from the world, or he or she is Acting like an ostrich Sorry to say but I don't see any benefit of writing disability on the card. It will simply destroy our chances of expectance at many places. Without manssioning disability at least we will have
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
You are right sir, but the points of rahul looks more practical. Here my intention is not competing with anybody because it is impossible task to say subramani sir is wrong. Because I always respect his views. But at this time I feel it is far from reality. I am really sorry if somebody is hurt. Thanks. On 4/18/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I understand this concern, which is expressed widespread in various forums I attend. Of course, there won't be a pogrom against disability, but as you say there has to be first a non-discrimination law which not only mentions disability, but also other more important factors like religion caste etc. Given that people purchase our Email ids, which is kind of virtual identity for many of us, and then spam us (which is worse than gassing in my opinion), it is quite possible that our details may land up in the hands of unscrupulous elements. I am reminded of Day of the Jackal in which the killer assumes the identity of a dead man and presents himself in his name. Probably this could very well happen. As part of the legal fraternity, you guys must press for the non discrimination law before UID is implemented which is the only safety net for us. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of rahul cherian Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling uncomfortable about their identity will always tell others that they have a poor self esteem. Like how Africans defined blackness with the phrase Black is beautiful I wouldn't mind telling people that blindness has its own beauty and serenity We are not exactly conveying our equality with others by merely talking about our rights, we do that only by making others understand that we are like them in every other aspects. So if I want to announce my disability to convey my different'ness and also express the desire to be a part of the greater humanity, I shall do that. I remember posting a poem by Ben Okary called 'To an English friend in Africa' in which he says: ... So fear not my friend, the darkness is gentler than you think. This is what I mean by being at ease about our condition in life. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of jignesh thakur Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:31 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Dear
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
actuel This Is matter like as Just think about condition cast base catégories are mention on card like sc . st obc. and other minorities. if these kind of Indications are not mentions on card so why is disability should be please sorry for that if that hert some one - Original Message - From: sandeep singh sandeepsingh...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Hello all, Acting like an ostrich will not do. If we are disabled in some way, we have to acknowledge it and if others don't, well, that's what we are fighting for! If we keep being afraid of being disabled, the world won't care anyway. Regards, Sandeep At 12:11 AM 18-04-10, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That's why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Rahul: Taking the spirit of what you conveyed. You don't want to be discriminated putting it simply. In the case of a person say those who are having orthopedic condition, the photo on the ID card won't reveal disability NO one wants to be discriminated and it is natural to oppose something which seems to do just that. Lets examine some cases which would help keeping annonymity of disability. Maybe job interview, admission to colleges, loans and insurance etc. In all these cases it help in the first stage. Eventually, you will have to intract with them in person and if one is inclined to discriminate then he possessess many ways to legally and rightfully discriminate against you. Therefore if we look it realistically it does not help a bit except feeling good to postpone the inevetible. In the other hand presently we are following the rights based model wherein services are offered not on the basis of sympathy and snubbing ones esteem. We have just adopted to that framework and it shall take some time to percolate. There is more to gain not being shy about disability and aserting ones right. This is the only way we can stop discrimination because we refuse to get discriminated againstand each one takes it on oneself. I believe the example of Godhra and Jews were illustrated to make a point and you don't believe disability info could result in such a situation. Harish. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling uncomfortable about their identity will always tell others that they have a poor self esteem. Like how Africans defined blackness with the phrase Black is beautiful I wouldn't mind telling people that blindness has its own beauty and serenity We are not exactly conveying our equality with others by merely talking about our rights, we do that only by making others understand that we are like them in every other aspects. So if I want to announce my disability to convey my different'ness and also express the desire to be a part of the greater humanity, I shall do that. I remember posting a poem by Ben Okary called 'To an English friend in Africa' in which he says: ... So fear not my friend, the darkness is gentler than you think. This is what I mean by being at ease about our condition in life. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of jignesh thakur Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:31 AM To: accessindia
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
As mentioned before, I can see the rationale behind Rahul's argument, but if the question comes down to disclosing our disability or not, I shall say nothing should prevent us from hiding it. It is like trying to conceal the information about our disability before a job interview. The fact is, someone will see it and we will have to explain it later. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of harish Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Rahul: Taking the spirit of what you conveyed. You don't want to be discriminated putting it simply. In the case of a person say those who are having orthopedic condition, the photo on the ID card won't reveal disability NO one wants to be discriminated and it is natural to oppose something which seems to do just that. Lets examine some cases which would help keeping annonymity of disability. Maybe job interview, admission to colleges, loans and insurance etc. In all these cases it help in the first stage. Eventually, you will have to intract with them in person and if one is inclined to discriminate then he possessess many ways to legally and rightfully discriminate against you. Therefore if we look it realistically it does not help a bit except feeling good to postpone the inevetible. In the other hand presently we are following the rights based model wherein services are offered not on the basis of sympathy and snubbing ones esteem. We have just adopted to that framework and it shall take some time to percolate. There is more to gain not being shy about disability and aserting ones right. This is the only way we can stop discrimination because we refuse to get discriminated againstand each one takes it on oneself. I believe the example of Godhra and Jews were illustrated to make a point and you don't believe disability info could result in such a situation. Harish. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling uncomfortable about their identity will always tell others that they have a poor self esteem. Like how Africans defined blackness with the phrase Black is beautiful I wouldn't mind telling people that blindness has its own beauty and serenity We are not exactly conveying our equality with others by merely talking about our rights, we do that only by making others
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Sorry folks, I meant to write nothing should prevent us from openly talking about our disability. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Subramani L Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus As mentioned before, I can see the rationale behind Rahul's argument, but if the question comes down to disclosing our disability or not, I shall say nothing should prevent us from hiding it. It is like trying to conceal the information about our disability before a job interview. The fact is, someone will see it and we will have to explain it later. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of harish Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Rahul: Taking the spirit of what you conveyed. You don't want to be discriminated putting it simply. In the case of a person say those who are having orthopedic condition, the photo on the ID card won't reveal disability NO one wants to be discriminated and it is natural to oppose something which seems to do just that. Lets examine some cases which would help keeping annonymity of disability. Maybe job interview, admission to colleges, loans and insurance etc. In all these cases it help in the first stage. Eventually, you will have to intract with them in person and if one is inclined to discriminate then he possessess many ways to legally and rightfully discriminate against you. Therefore if we look it realistically it does not help a bit except feeling good to postpone the inevetible. In the other hand presently we are following the rights based model wherein services are offered not on the basis of sympathy and snubbing ones esteem. We have just adopted to that framework and it shall take some time to percolate. There is more to gain not being shy about disability and aserting ones right. This is the only way we can stop discrimination because we refuse to get discriminated againstand each one takes it on oneself. I believe the example of Godhra and Jews were illustrated to make a point and you don't believe disability info could result in such a situation. Harish. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews to concentration camps because of the profiling done earlier. I am not saying that in this day and age people with disability are going to be gassed. But I am somehow not comfortable with this information being available publicly. I feel the same way about my religion (or in my case the lack of it:-), earnings and other personal details. All this falls within the ambit of information I consider private and I should have the option to disclose this information and this information should not be automatically available publicly. Cheers, Rahul On 18 April 2010 15:27, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: I think this is a very negative self image of ourselves. If a person can feel comfortable about a particular religion, caste or any other identity, why can't we feel comfortable about our disabilities? One of the reasons why we are not understood properly by others is that we always try and disown our condition or hide it from others. By hiding we are not going to be accepted by the world; on the contrary, we will be rejected thoroughly since we subtly tell them that disability is not such an acceptable condition (or) I am different and I want to hide that fact. I don't know if this is what you tried telling in the below mail, but I find such discomfort almost in every disabled person I meet. I often try telling them that feeling
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
I also think in the way which subramani sir and Harish sir has said. I was discussing this with my dad and he also told me that the major problem comes with regard to employment, education and things like that. So there you have got two kinds of attitude. One is to hide about disability, and tell them when called upon for interview or after selection process, and other is to tell them initially itself. So the person calling you for job will call you based on your ability. I know its not very simple as it sounds because even after seeing ability which is reflected in CV people are not convinced regarding our work efficiency but the solution of this problem is only to meet with them and try to sensitize them. I must say that in the cities like Mumbai or I would not mind including other metro cities, people are very sensitized towards our needs. And even if they don't know about our technologies or things related to that, when told them I have seen positive attitude in them. However I do understand the irritation of those also who after trying a lot either do get into job or don't get just because that people don't believe in their abilities because of the disability. But still I feel that there is no harm in telling about our disability at the starting level itself. Anyways we need to have convincing power and confidence whenever we disclose about our disability. And thanks Asif bhaiya, you reminded me that we will have random unique id no of 16 digits without any card. I just forgot it. Regards Amar Jain. -- From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus As mentioned before, I can see the rationale behind Rahul's argument, but if the question comes down to disclosing our disability or not, I shall say nothing should prevent us from hiding it. It is like trying to conceal the information about our disability before a job interview. The fact is, someone will see it and we will have to explain it later. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of harish Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Rahul: Taking the spirit of what you conveyed. You don't want to be discriminated putting it simply. In the case of a person say those who are having orthopedic condition, the photo on the ID card won't reveal disability NO one wants to be discriminated and it is natural to oppose something which seems to do just that. Lets examine some cases which would help keeping annonymity of disability. Maybe job interview, admission to colleges, loans and insurance etc. In all these cases it help in the first stage. Eventually, you will have to intract with them in person and if one is inclined to discriminate then he possessess many ways to legally and rightfully discriminate against you. Therefore if we look it realistically it does not help a bit except feeling good to postpone the inevetible. In the other hand presently we are following the rights based model wherein services are offered not on the basis of sympathy and snubbing ones esteem. We have just adopted to that framework and it shall take some time to percolate. There is more to gain not being shy about disability and aserting ones right. This is the only way we can stop discrimination because we refuse to get discriminated againstand each one takes it on oneself. I believe the example of Godhra and Jews were illustrated to make a point and you don't believe disability info could result in such a situation. Harish. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [AI] disability field in sensus Subramani, My concern is rather different, and not due the fact that I have a negative opinion about disability. My concern is more about profiling. For example, India does not have an non-discrimination law that prohibits the private sector from discrimination on the basis of disability. Now, keep in mind that we will live in a world where, as you rightly put it, the world at large views people with disability as people with lesser capability. As more and more services can be procured online, it is entirely possible that the private sector may stop providing services to people with disability (since they view this group as a higher risk) especially where services can be purchased online and payment made later with credit cards etc. Another extreme example where the UID would be problematic. In Hitler's Germany, all the Jews were initially required to wear yellow stars on their clothing to be identified easily. Later, it became easy to send Jews
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That’s why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] disability field in sensus
Hello all, Acting like an ostrich will not do. If we are disabled in some way, we have to acknowledge it and if others don't, well, that's what we are fighting for! If we keep being afraid of being disabled, the world won't care anyway. Regards, Sandeep At 12:11 AM 18-04-10, you wrote: Sir, In our country many people consider disability as like asirias crime. There is a question of expectance, if the disability would menssion on the card, our lots of application and other things will rejected automatically. We live in the country where people have not much respect for disable person. My point is that the disability on the card will not give us a chanse to prove ourself at many places. For example once I submitted my documents for trading account, the company expected it willingly, but when we had face to face meeting for formalities, he realized that I am visually impaired person, and he suddenly rejected my application. How ever I could convince him to give me his services. If I had produced disability card at that time the result might have different. That's why I am against it. Though vamshisir and other are more intelligent they can thing far better than me. I am just writing my thoughts. Thanks. On 4/17/10, raghuraman thinkdontbl...@gmail.com wrote: friends, i really couldnt understand the outlook of a few of our friends who doesn't like the disability field in u i d card actually speaking, we are of course disabled and it must be acknowledged and accepted just as a teacher is a teacher and a lawyer is a lawyer moreover, by not including the disability field in the u i d card we need to use different forms or cards to get our different benifits also i heard that in fact the n p r performa doesn't have disability field is it right if so, what are the steps have we taken to resolve these problems please explain cheers raghu To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
