RE: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible
Kanchan, Will digitally signing PDF files work? I understand digital signatures are valid in law. The advantage of digital signatures is that for one thing, no scanning is needed and secondly, you can sign each page as I have seen done in some legal documents. The thing to keep in mind with converting PDFs directly from any other document like a word document is that the conversion process has to preserve the structure of the document for full accessibility. So, in the latest versions of Microsoft Office, if you "save as" PDF, the document structure is preserved. Pranav -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/006f01d66f76%24bc47e260%2434d7a720%24%40gmail.com.
Re: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible
Thanks, everyone. To Prashant sir’s point, these are text-based, searchable pdfs. So that is not the issue. The real issue is the way they are generated. By printing and then scanning them, as opposed to converting them from word to pdf. I have received some filings in the latter format and have found them to be fully accessible. As Mr. Rajesh points out, preparing them in the latter fashion is less onerous for everyone. The reasons why they still do not do this are: A. Because they need to append some documents to the file that are only available in hard copy form. B. To obtain signature and authentication. On the first concern, the solution is to push for the use of pdf merging software. The Delhi HC has mandated these. This way, they can scan what they must and convert other things from word to pdf. And then merge all pdfs into one. On the second one, as Harish sir and Kanchan ma’am point out, the solution is digital signatures. The Delhi HC, again, mandates this. In the alternative, only the last page should be set aside for signing and separately scanned. The note that I have prepared for Justice Chandrachud (my employer) proposes the above 2 solutions. Rahul On 09/08/2020, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Hi, I am pasting below my response. My previous response did not get > delivered inexplicably. > > Rahul > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Rahul Bajaj >> Date: August 9, 2020 at 1:47:48 PM GMT+5:30 >> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in >> Subject: Re: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents >> accessible >> > -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CAAm2wZv8DS4d7%3Dou%2Bgqo5TtN5MWiCSQ_9fR7455YKpKbsfcFsg%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible
Greetings Rahul: Welcome back to India. This is a challenge I encounter daily. Instead of taking a Word document and converting it directly into PDF, folks will first print the document out, scan it and then submit it to us as an attachment. Why they choose the long way out absolutely beats me and will remain a mystery. If you request the Word document version instead, half the time they will forget and apologize when you gently nudge them. Many of these documents are tied to assignments that tend to be highly time sensitive and hence immediate action is required. Ironically, if 99% of the PDF documents one needs to use are accessible and 1% is not, it is that 1% that is most critically required. The only work around I have been able to figure out is to ask one of my employees to correct these documents live and manually using Adobe Acrobat, the version that allows PDF documents to be edited. Once in a while, these PDF documents are security protected and since there is usually no time to request the sender to send us an unprotected version of the PDF, I am compelled to manually copy paste into Word and access them that way. I will recommend that you post a requirement on www.internshala.com and find a law student in his or her second or third year of their law degree. These students will kill to associate themselves with you and the Supreme Court. Many of these students need very powerful resumes to qualify for admission and scholarships at top tier law schools abroad, the student segment with which we work closely, and therefore you have lots of leverage. You will even be able to pick and choose your assistant. While helping these students to gain admissions to LLB, JD and LLM degrees abroad, my experience leads me to believe that law students from the various national law schools, Amity Law, IP University Law are the best with exceptional command over the English language. They will even be anxious to help you with legal research since that will be another bullet point on their resumes. As much as others might like to claim, technology does not have a 100% tenable, iron-clad solution to this problem. And that is perfectly acceptable. Technology will never be able to solve all the challenges our community experiences. Please drop me a line if you need any help with all this. Best. Rajesh Noida - Original Message - From: "Rahul Bajaj" To: Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2020 12:27 AM Subject: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible > Hi, Everyone, > > I recently started clerking on the Indian Supreme Court. One > accessibility issue that I am struggling with is this. My > understanding is that lawyers prepare their PDF filings by printing > out their work product and then scanning it. As opposed to simply > converting their filings from word to PDF. As a result, a lot of text > is difficult to decipher. Illustratively, one counter affidavit, in > pertinent part, reads as follows: > "starkly perceptible signs of influence with regard to > allocation of cases to dffirent benches selectively, lo > select judges who were perceived to be politically > biased." . > Such a disclosure creates an obligation ror every citizen to > defend the independence of the Supreme Court. > A copy of the Times of India report, "We felt then CJI was > being remote controlled; Justice Kttrian Joseph", dated 3'd > December 2018 is annexed as Annexu ,, C+ (lll't?7)." > > As you can see, some words are muffed up. The annexure number > containing the Times of India report is also unclear. My sense is > because they did not convert this document from word to PDF while > filing and instead printed and scanned it. Is that right? > > Second, some scans are also in pixelated form, making their quality > poor. Illustratively, part of an annexure reads as follows: > "AND WHEREAS the Govemmc~nl of India has daclded to provide certain > rela>:atlons for industnal ar.\’.! commercial acl1\·if1es from 20th > Aprfl. 2020." > > Would asking for the filing of a typed copy of annexures of this > nature be the best solution? > > Note that these are documents in the public domain. I am going to talk to > the Justice I am working for and > propose some solutions. And want to do my homework before I do this. > Thank you. > > Rahul > > > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the MPhil in Law > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
RE: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible
Rahul, Great that you are back from the UK and at the right spot and at the right time in history. So there was a training session part 1 for Bombay High court last week and Justice Gautam Patel explained to us how to create pdf documents and he clearly said that we should not print and then scan but make pdf from the file on our computer directly. Then came the issue of signing-affirming affidavits before the Notary and he said you should get the last page only scanned. Bombay High Court is looking for a way to affirm online and not physically. They were also looking at aadhar based affirmations. Whatever suggestions we can suggest now would change the way courts accept documents for a long time. Kanchan -Original Message- From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 12:28 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible > Hi, Everyone, > > I recently started clerking on the Indian Supreme Court. One > accessibility issue that I am struggling with is this. My > understanding is that lawyers prepare their PDF filings by printing > out their work product and then scanning it. As opposed to simply > converting their filings from word to PDF. As a result, a lot of text > is difficult to decipher. Illustratively, one counter affidavit, in > pertinent part, reads as follows: > "starkly perceptible signs of influence with regard to > allocation of cases to dffirent benches selectively, lo > select judges who were perceived to be politically > biased." . > Such a disclosure creates an obligation ror every citizen to > defend the independence of the Supreme Court. > A copy of the Times of India report, "We felt then CJI was > being remote controlled; Justice Kttrian Joseph", dated 3'd > December 2018 is annexed as Annexu ,, C+ (lll't?7)." > > As you can see, some words are muffed up. The annexure number > containing the Times of India report is also unclear. My sense is > because they did not convert this document from word to PDF while > filing and instead printed and scanned it. Is that right? > > Second, some scans are also in pixelated form, making their quality > poor. Illustratively, part of an annexure reads as follows: > "AND WHEREAS the Govemmc~nl of India has daclded to provide certain > rela>:atlons for industnal ar.\’.! commercial acl1\·if1es from 20th > Aprfl. 2020." > > Would asking for the filing of a typed copy of annexures of this > nature be the best solution? > > Note that these are documents in the public domain. I am going to talk to the > Justice I am working for and > propose some solutions. And want to do my homework before I do this. > Thank you. > > Rahul > > > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the MPhil in Law > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) > University of Oxford -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/3D687954-2300-4DD3-91C7-3C810DAA553E%40gmail.com. -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/003501d66dfc%24b55067a0%241ff136e0%24%40com.
RE: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible
Dear Rahul, You should try to convince people to upload and circulate documents in text format and not as scanned images. I think this has benefits for all, people will be able to search for text in documents and use parts of it in other documents if needed. And it will eliminate the main barrier for print disabled. I believe they want to circulate scanned documents to indicate that it has been signed by authorities and that they are genuine. In this digital age, presence of signature on screen alone is not a guarantee, if someone wants they can forge it easily. So, courts can rely more on the source of documents and resort to some other methods of validation like digital signature, QR code etc. Asking for implementing accessibility guidelines within the documents such as use of heading styles and image descriptions is probably beyond the scope for now. Even if text based PDF/Word/HTML files are made available, I think it will make life easier for many. Thanks. Prashant -Original Message- From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 12:28 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] Two questions about the modalities of making documents accessible > Hi, Everyone, > > I recently started clerking on the Indian Supreme Court. One > accessibility issue that I am struggling with is this. My > understanding is that lawyers prepare their PDF filings by printing > out their work product and then scanning it. As opposed to simply > converting their filings from word to PDF. As a result, a lot of text > is difficult to decipher. Illustratively, one counter affidavit, in > pertinent part, reads as follows: > "starkly perceptible signs of influence with regard to allocation of > cases to dffirent benches selectively, lo select judges who were > perceived to be politically biased." . > Such a disclosure creates an obligation ror every citizen to defend > the independence of the Supreme Court. > A copy of the Times of India report, "We felt then CJI was being > remote controlled; Justice Kttrian Joseph", dated 3'd December 2018 is > annexed as Annexu ,, C+ (lll't?7)." > > As you can see, some words are muffed up. The annexure number > containing the Times of India report is also unclear. My sense is > because they did not convert this document from word to PDF while > filing and instead printed and scanned it. Is that right? > > Second, some scans are also in pixelated form, making their quality > poor. Illustratively, part of an annexure reads as follows: > "AND WHEREAS the Govemmc~nl of India has daclded to provide certain > rela>:atlons for industnal ar.\’.! commercial acl1\·if1es from 20th > Aprfl. 2020." > > Would asking for the filing of a typed copy of annexures of this > nature be the best solution? > > Note that these are documents in the public domain. I am going to talk > to the Justice I am working for and propose some solutions. And want to do > my homework before I do this. > Thank you. > > Rahul > > > > > > -- > -- > Rahul Bajaj > Candidate for the MPhil in Law > Rhodes Scholar (India and Linacre 2018) University of Oxford -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/3D687954-2300-4DD3-91C7-3C810DAA553E%40gmail.com. -- Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "AccessIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/1bfa01d66df7%24395f87c0%24ac1e9740%24%40gmail.com.
