Re: [Ace] [Anima] Certification Authority renewal/rollover and intra-device communication

2021-10-02 Thread Brian E Carpenter
I *really* don't understand this stuff, but how long could the rollover
take, for a reasonably large IoT network (presumably thousands of
devices)? Are we talking about a few seconds when no new sessions could
start, or what?

That said, I don't see that you have much choice.

Regards
   Brian

On 03-Oct-21 13:36, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> In:
> https://github.com/anima-wg/constrained-voucher/pull/177/files
> 
> We make a compromise on the CA rollover protocol defined RFC4210.
> 
> Specifically, during the period when devices are renewing their certificates,
> we do not support communication between devices with different certificates.
> For instance two devices creating a new DTLS session between them, or even
> IKEv2 or EDHOC using certificates.
> 
> Existing connections could continue, including rekeying, but new ones would
> not be possible to create if the devices are in different states.
> 
> It's not clear to the design team how RFC7030 would have supported this
> anyway: when would the OldWithNew and NewWithOld certificates have been
> transfered, and at what point would devices learn that they no longer need to
> include those in the certificate chains that are exchanged inband.
> 
> Given IoT networks that are primarily M2MP, we think that it *is* reasonable
> that a non-constrained data collection system could have all the right
> certificates (OldWithNew, NewWithOld) to operate.  But, we don't know how
> that system got them.
> 
> {You might argue that this is really ace-est-coaps^WRFC9148 matter, and
> probably you'd be right. But that document is past AUTH48, waiting for DTLS13}
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
>Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Ace] Certification Authority renewal/rollover and intra-device communication

2021-10-02 Thread Michael Richardson

In:
https://github.com/anima-wg/constrained-voucher/pull/177/files

We make a compromise on the CA rollover protocol defined RFC4210.

Specifically, during the period when devices are renewing their certificates,
we do not support communication between devices with different certificates.
For instance two devices creating a new DTLS session between them, or even
IKEv2 or EDHOC using certificates.

Existing connections could continue, including rekeying, but new ones would
not be possible to create if the devices are in different states.

It's not clear to the design team how RFC7030 would have supported this
anyway: when would the OldWithNew and NewWithOld certificates have been
transfered, and at what point would devices learn that they no longer need to
include those in the certificate chains that are exchanged inband.

Given IoT networks that are primarily M2MP, we think that it *is* reasonable
that a non-constrained data collection system could have all the right
certificates (OldWithNew, NewWithOld) to operate.  But, we don't know how
that system got them.

{You might argue that this is really ace-est-coaps^WRFC9148 matter, and
probably you'd be right. But that document is past AUTH48, waiting for DTLS13}

--
Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
   Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide






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