Closing this list

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi,

As the Plasma Mobile project supercedes Plasma Active, I'd like to close this 
list to avoid fragmentation.

At the same time, I'd like to invite those that lurk here, and that haven't 
seen activity in a while to join the general Plasma mailinglist, and have an 
eye on the newly created Plasma Mobile forums at 
https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=293

See you on the flipside!
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Re: plasma active for kde plasma 5

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi David,

On Friday, April 24, 2015 14:33:39 David Talmage wrote:
> Now that Plasma 5 is out on Kubuntu 15.04, is it a good time to revive the
> table user experience for KDE?

Yes, I think it would be a good time. :)

> If I wanted to look into it to see how much work it might take, where would
> I start?

The plasma-mobile repository has most of the code. I haven't tried it, but 
most parts have I think been ported. A first step would be to build it and try 
to run it, then fix whatever problems you notice.

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Re: Nepomuk vs Baloo in Plasma Active?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, March 03, 2015 20:01:38 Stephen Paul Weber wrote:
> I'm working on getting Plasma Active to build from source for me, and have 
> a question.  While building I got a message that cmake could not find 
> nepomuk, so I went a'googling to find out what that was and found this on 
> the KDE wiki: 
>  earch>  which seems to indicate that Nepomuk is deprecated from the
> perspective of main KDE.  Is that the case?
> 
> I'm wondering if Plasma Active has a plan to move to Baloo, or already has 
> in a branch somewhere, or plans not to because Nepomuk works better for the 
> mobile use case.  Just curious about the state of things -- I couldn't find
> anything obvious by googling "plasma active baloo" and similar phrases.

I think the KF5 branches have been ported to use Baloo instead of Nepomuk, but 
they are not yet in a releasable state.

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Re: Plasma active for Lenovo Yoga 2 13

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Kenneth,

On Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:05:04 Kenneth Aar wrote:
> I would like to use plasma active on my Lenovo Yoga 2 13 laptop. The image
> on http://plasma-active.org/ seems very dated. Where can I get the latest?
> Or have the features in plasma active been merged into plasma 5?

The features have in principle been merged into Plasma 5, but we have not yet 
done the integration bits that need doing, packaging, testing, etc.; so 
there's no easy way yet to get a Frameworks5/Plasma5 version going on that 
hardware.

Best is to stick with Plasma Active 4 for the moment, though I can't give a 
timeline when a new version will be ready.

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Re: What do you folks think of the MS Surface announcement?

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Mathieu,

On Thursday, May 08, 2014 09:30:28 Mathieu Jobin wrote:
> would it be possible to dual boot plasma-active and windows OS on their
> newest surface?

I don't know, haven't tried. It depends on the bootloader being open (if it's 
an x86 device, likely not a problem, if it's ARM, then it's likely a problem), 
you might want to check that first. Then, there need to be drivers.

> I'd be willing to pay the extra fee to have this setup for me
> 
> I need a plasma tablet

Your best option right now is the Google Nexus 7 (first edition), I'm running 
PA on this device, and it's quite nice.

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Re: KDE Plasma Powered Smartphones

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, February 28, 2014 22:24:01 jude dilanjan wrote:
> Will there be smart phones powered by KDE plasma in future? I think KDE
> should sign a partnership or a deal with an OEM to push the technology on
> to smart-phones.

In principle, I'd love to see this happen. Currently, Plasma doesn't fully 
support smartphone use-cases, such as calling, sms, etc., so this would need 
some work on these things, first.

Then, it seems to be not so easy to find an OEM that would like to bring 
Plasma to smartphones. I'd welcome it, but I don't see it happen by itself.

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Re: Release date for PA5?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, December 20, 2013 16:07:31 Sascha Manns wrote:
> do we have a planned date for the release of the next PA5?

None is planned right now. I think the plan is to port to Qt5/KF5 and only 
then do a next release.
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Re: Fixed old problem on ARM builds

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, December 02, 2013 12:51:45 Hillel Lubman wrote:
> Those are all still older builds with this bug. More precisely they are
> here: http://files.kde.org/plasma/active/4.0/images/nexus7/ Newer builds
> with the fix weren't published so far.

They are published, just need to upgrade from the repos after installation. 
(Which of course can be a little tricky, but should be easy enough using a 
terminal.)

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Re: Fixed old problem on ARM builds

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, December 02, 2013 15:19:00 Daniel Kreuter wrote:
> That is awesome, as it was a major blocker to make PA work on ARM, for
> example the Nexus7 I have here, waiting for a PA install. :)
> 
> Rüdiger, where can I find the latest image to install on N7 and
> instructions?

> You may have a look at [1] 

> [1] http://ruedigergad.com/2013/09/09/plasma-active-4-for-nexus-7-2012-and-a
> rchos-g9/

That's what I was looking for.

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Re: Fixed old problem on ARM builds

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hey,

On Saturday, November 30, 2013 16:01:07 Marco Martin wrote:
> Or i should probably say work around ;)
> 
> so far, on ARM (all of what it was tested on, nexus, archos etc) all the
> panel popups didn't have neither touch nor mouse input working (making as a
> sideeffect impossible to configure wifi access on the nexus)
> 
> TL;DR;
> so, now a fix is building in kde:stable:ux, new images done after is done
> building should work.

That is awesome, as it was a major blocker to make PA work on ARM, for example 
the Nexus7 I have here, waiting for a PA install. :)

Rüdiger, where can I find the latest image to install on N7 and instructions?

Thanks
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Re: requests for Qt Dev Days assistance

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, November 04, 2013 17:23:08 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Monday 04 November 2013, Carl Symons wrote:
> > > 
> > >
> > > hmm, Tk is a very, very ancient widget toolkit (not much younger than
> > > motif in fact) so i'm not sure is something suited for a mobile
> > > distribution.
> >
> > Thank you, Marco.
> >
> > So what's really needed is something Qt-esque. Not something figured out
> > about Tk. Interesting. Is Patience (kpat) done with Qt?
> 
> yes, all kdegames are qt/kde based.
> kpatience and some more are available in the repo btw

knetwalk works really well on a touch screen and as demo.
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Re: Files - Follders and Tags

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 21:10:12 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> I think folder and tagging are far from ready in KDE.
> 
>  I have a lot of images i tag intensely in digikam. When i sync them to my
> weTab via owncloud, i have tag them anew. That is not acceptable. As long as
> tags are not tied to a file, tagging is not ready.

Tagging is highly dependent on the originating device, though. On the target 
machine, tags might not exist, or might have a different meaning. They could 
connect different assets, and so on. The best you can do, is compare the tag 
names, but that doesn't actually say a lot about the tags. It might be enough 
for most cases, however.

> When I copy files to my weTab, i should be aksed, if I want to tag them. If
> yes, my tags should be offered and I should be able to create new one.
> The same should happen, when i load down content from bodega.
> 
> One tag should allways be the folder in which the file rests, so i can see
> which files are in a folder and can tag them. When i tag them with another
> folder, the old tag folder would removed
> 
> As long as tagging is far from ready, PA should offer fallback lines. One
> fallback for me is dolhin, allthough it is not touch optimized.

I think you're missing one important thing: If we put Dolphin by default, that 
would make absolutely sure that Files doesn't get any exposure, and no fixes. 
It would also convey the message that we're just trying to ship Desktop 
applications for touch devices, and that is the exact opposite of our 
strategic direction. We're deliberately sacrificing functionality for this 
here. Those that feel compelled, or prefer Dolphin can still use it just fine, 
and I think that's a great asset as well. (We get many useful, even if not 
touch-optimized, apps that way, but they should not be put into the spotlight 
in Plasma Active.)

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Re: Files-Folders-owncloud-PA5

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 20:29:48 Kevin Krammer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 2013-10-29, 23:47:43, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > That struck me as well. I've tried to fix it some time ago, but it really
> > is not that easy technically. The synching library and owncloud itself is
> > folder- based, changing that would need very intrusive changes to the
> > system. I'm not in a position to do that.
> 
> Couldn't it work with something like:
> - creating a temp dir
> - symlinking or hardlinking the respective files into it
> - sync
> - delete links
> - copy remaining files (new in sync)
> - remove empty temp dir

Possibly, but would I feel really dirty about doing it? Certainly yes.

The nice thing about the sync process is that it's event-driven, you add a 
file in one of the synched locations, sync starts shortly after that. No 
polling for the local filesystem.

Also, the other way round isn't addressed by it.

If you (or anyone else) want to give it a try, be my guest... :)
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Re: Files-Folders-owncloud-PA5

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 22:20:07 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> I think, PA4 is not in a state , where we can handle it that strict. There
> is  at least one important app, that thinks in folders: owncloud. owncloud
> wants to sync folders!  It makes no sense, to sync the complete mer folder
> to owncloud. I sync the *folders* muisic, documents, pictures ... and all
> the folders, i have on my laptop and want to sync to the tablet via
> owncloud.
> 
> There is probably no easy  way to solve it . Maybe there could be a tag
> "sync  to owncloud" which in combination with other tags syncs to folders
> on owncloud without creating folders in PA4. As I wrote, no easy way to get
> rid of foldes in PA4. Obviously files looks into folders an presents the
> conted in another way.

That struck me as well. I've tried to fix it some time ago, but it really is 
not that easy technically. The synching library and owncloud itself is folder-
based, changing that would need very intrusive changes to the system. I'm not 
in a position to do that.

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Re: Bodega Store: Creating an store

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 17:28:48 Sascha Manns wrote:
> just a question: What means "Markup" inside the Store Creator?

The difference between cost of the product, and what you ask for it, i.e. your 
profit.
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Re: Plasmoid installation in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Sunday, September 08, 2013 08:34:32 Bogdan Cristea wrote:
> Yes, the grid exists in Plasma 2, but due to screen size is less obvious,
> while for small touch-screen it becomes a little too intrusive. Is there a
> way to have the gris parameters changed in order to have closer grid points
> or disable it completely ?

Not possible without code changes.
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Re: Plasmoid installation in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, September 07, 2013 22:33:50 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Btw: I've heard that Plasma 2 uses a grid layout for all workspaces (not
> sure  if that's still true, though).

It's still true. The gridsize is a bit smaller, and screens are usually 
bigger, so more freedom in placing there.
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Re: ownCloud in PA4

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hey,

On Thursday, September 05, 2013 10:10:56 Bogdan Cristea wrote:
> I was able to run ownclound synchronization interface from Settings 
> applications and use for connecting to my local owncloud server. Folder 
> synchronization works, so overall this module is usable.
> 
> I have found the following issues:
> - owncloud module is accessible as stand alone application, but it does 
> not work. Not sure how the owncloud module is implemented, but maybe it 
> could be possible to disallow running this module as stand alone 
> application.

With "owncloud module" you're referring to the KControl module (which also 
gets embedded into Systemsettings (if that's installed)?

I agree that the mirall binary (the "Desktop Qt" owncloud client) should 
probably not be installed in Active, or maybe just Hidden=true'ed in the 
package. Possibly separately packaged...

That said, I don't have much time for this feature right now, so I can only 
dream of all these things fixed (and maybe lend a helping hand to someone 
who's interested in fixing it).

> - when filling the login in form and pressing sign in button nothing 
> happens. After trying to synchronize some folder the login credentials 
> are asked again and finally I am connected and able to select folders 
> from my owncloud server

I've seen this, too. I don't know why exactly that happens, I think it's a 
state screwup in the toplevel QML file, but haven't found the exact reason. :/

> - the folder/file list is not correctly sorted as uppercase names appear 
> first, then lower case names. It is not the way the user expects the 
> folder/file list to appear

Fair enough :)
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Re: ownCloud in PA4

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Bogdan,

On Thursday, September 05, 2013 12:01:10 Bogdan Cristea wrote:
> On Thu 05 Sep 2013 11:47:26 AM CEST, Bogdan Cristea wrote:
> > On 09/05/2013 11:29 AM, Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> >> I looked it up in virtualbox a moment ago and it is the widget
> >> Synchronisation
> >> - online.
> >> 
> >> Maybe it should get another name.

I had names it owncloud initially, but removed it, for two reasons:

- ownCloud is kind of jargon
- the ownCloud trademark is owned by a company, it's unclear if we run the 
  risk of trademark violation

I hope one day file synching will have an API independent from a specific 
service, so you have, for example, plugins for dropbox, owncloud, kolab's file 
storage, google drive, etc.

> > I have found the plasmoid, it was there from the beginning. The icon
> > and/or the name should be changed to something more close to owncloud
> 
> Well, after playing with the settings module and the plasmoid I am not 
> sure that it is working. Anyway, in my case it fails to synchronize a 
> remote folder. Are the sources for owncloud-client available ? I am 
> interested in fixing this.

g...@github.com:sebasje/mirall.git has the sources in the plasmaclient branch, 
under src/plasma/*

It's split up into a small lib, a daemon (which does the synching and is 
controlled via dbus) the Plasmoid,, the Active settings module and a KCM 
(which doesn't work well yet).

Let me know if you have questions.
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Re: Plasma Active (4) is awesome, and I know that ;)

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, September 05, 2013 17:39:40 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Thursday, September 5, 2013 17:11:24 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > I guess I'm more of a classical "usability" guy than a "user experience
> > guy" in the sense that I focus more on reducing frustration and problems
> > to a minimum 
> 
> and this has HUGE value. it’s helped the current software become much
> better  and it will only help what we do in future as well. i have a lot of
> respect for these efforts you bring to our team.

+1 :)
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Re: What Plasma Active 4 offers

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, September 05, 2013 17:07:46 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Thursday, September 5, 2013 16:37:29 Marco Martin wrote:
> > so reading document formats, local storage, tagging files, advantages of a
> > client side pim app, playing media files...
> 
> groupware (email / calendaring), viewing office documents, reading eBooks
> and  PDFs are all very important things to certain key groups. +1 for
> listing those items as well as the file management and media items Marco
> noted

... and synching the resulting or consumed data things across devices of 
different nature. :)
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Re: Feedback to the Dot story

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, September 05, 2013 13:30:54 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > I don't mean to say that we did bad work, because we didn't. We did
> > great work, but we still have more great work to do before we have a
> > "polished product". PA4 is great, but still very "rough" in a whole lot
> > of ways.
> 
> shall i list all the bugs i run into on a daily basis on my (not very old) 
> Android phone?
> 
> shall i share the pain of watching my brother-in-law use his brand new
> top-of- the-line Android phone while he complains about this or that as he
> fiddles about with it?
> 
> you are trying to live in a world of perfection that doesn’t exist, and
> that  mindset is an existential threat to the  project.

Yes, exactly that.

I also  think what got lost with you, Thomas, is the difference between 
scientific research and communicating what PA is. Put in other words: You're 
too close to it to look at it from that point of view.

We *need* to get people excited, how we do this:

- We do not promise things it clearly doesn't do
- We assume positives outweigh negatives
- We point out the positives and let people's minds run free
- We are confident (but critical) about our own work

User themselves filter pretty damn well the lies from the "this isn't up to my 
expectations", and that's exactly why we get good reviews: We're honest and 
don't tell things that clearly aren't true, but we also show some confidence 
in our own creation. The potential is there, and we show that it can be done. 
A works pretty well for a number of usecases.

Doing UX research is very different from doing marketing research by the way. 
You can't have a bunch of people test it to get behind UX problems, and then 
use these results for marketing / communication. I know it's tempting, but 
it's also wrong. (I've worked with UX people on marketing vs. UX research for 
years, and there are things that can be shared (techniques for building 
persona's, for example), and there are things that must not be shared.

I don't like this cover-your-ass mentality which leads to concentrating on 
problems and underselling the actual product. It's very common among Free 
software developers, and often a sign of proximity bias. What it leads to is 
that it deprives people of the motivation to try it themselves. And that's a 
real problem for us: people not trying out our stuff.

Ask yourself this question: What would you rather see, nobody out of ten 
people not even trying it, or 9 out of ten people walking away not interested 
and one sticking around, because PA caters to his/her needs?

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Re: ownCloud in PA4

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, September 03, 2013 18:42:02 Bogdan Cristea wrote:
> Thank you for this tip. It seems to me that owncloud is not yet 
> functional. First, the client icon should be shown on the main task 
> bar. Searching for an application also has some issues with the on 
> screen keyboard, but it seems to work.

It's not a traditional application, more like a system service. The synching 
is done by a daemon in the background. This daemon can be controlled by an 
Active settings module, or a Plasmoid. Use those.

Using the "mirall" owncloud client will cause havoc, so choose either one.

> I am able to type my owncloud parameters, but after sign in, there is a 
> dark frame that hides the graphical elements found on the owncloud GUI, 
> which makes owncloud client unusable at this current stage. This client 
> is the one shipped by owncloud ? Are the sources available ?

Could you show a screenshot or a photo?
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Re: ownCloud in PA4

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, September 03, 2013 13:37:49 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 03.09.2013 12:39, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 01, 2013 20:40:42 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> >> What has to be done to support ownCloud sync in PA4?
> > 
> > It has to be put into the announcement. The client is ready and works.
> 
> It does? Dude why didn't you tell us?  I thought it was still in a 
> "basically works, but there is still work to do" kind of state.
> Is it already in the repos? ownCloud for PA is very important, we must 
> not miss this is in the announcement!

I did, it worked for PA3, I told people here, and the conclusion was that it's 
a nice add-on feature, but nothing too central. I didn't feel like pushing it, 
I just don't like vanity.

There are reports of people who are running it without problems for months, 
and it's running on my laptop for months as well, stable.

The main problem with it, technically, is that it doesn't warn against self-
signed ssl certificates. That would probably needs two or three days of work.

In the repos, just install owncloud-client (or maybe mirall client, or 
somesuch, and you get a nicely integrated PA sync client.

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Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, August 30, 2013 17:30:01 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> Am Freitag, 30. August 2013, 17:21:35 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
> > On Friday, August 30, 2013 17:15:29 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > > Thank you. I know that. But how about the average user?
> >
> > Realistically, two questions:
> > 
> > - How much of this "average user" are there?
> 
> Hopefully soon there will be more average users. We have to tell it then
> and  should know what to tell them in time.

Sure, in the future. This thread is about the upgrade process of people 
running PA3 and wanting PA4, so has nothing to do with future users, only with 
current users. And I don't think there's a lot of average users around who use 
PA for production. I think people who can flash tablets will usually be able to 
use a shell for a simple rsync or scp command.

> > - What's the alternative, not mentioning that data will be lost?
> 
> The alternative could to tell them to install dolphin or install by default 
> and tell them to do a backup with it.

- Install Dolphin
- Plugin in a mouse
- surf to fish://192.168.1.x/..

is not much easier by an order of magnitude. One could, of course, mention 
both options.

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Re: Reinstallation and saving the home directory

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Sunday, September 01, 2013 20:40:42 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > Actually we had planned official support for ownCloud sync for PA4, but
> > time and manpower constraints didn't allow us to do it in time. It's
> > still on our to do list, though.
> 
> What has to be done to support ownCloud sync in PA4?

It has to be put into the announcement. The client is ready and works. :)
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Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, August 30, 2013 17:15:29 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> Thank you. I know that. But how about the average user?

Realistically, two questions:

- How much of this "average user" are there?

- What's the alternative, not mentioning that data will be lost?

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Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, August 30, 2013 16:14:54 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> Am Freitag, 30. August 2013, 16:03:45 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
> > On Thursday, August 29, 2013 23:52:14 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > True. So we probably should go with Carl's suggestion to explicitly tell
> > > people that migration from PA3 isn't possible and if they've used PA3,
> > > they
> > > should reinstall.
> >
> > Not quite, "upgrading from PA3 is not supported, but might work (or might
> > not). We recommend a clean installation.". People don't like to hear
> > "impossible", and it isn't, just that we don't want to debug the mess it
> > leaves. We should also mention backing up the user data in /home/mer).
> 
> How can i back up my user data without using dolphin or the console?

You could, for example, ssh into it.
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Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 23:52:14 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> True. So we probably should go with Carl's suggestion to explicitly tell 
> people that migration from PA3 isn't possible and if they've used PA3, they 
> should reinstall.

Not quite, "upgrading from PA3 is not supported, but might work (or might 
not). We recommend a clean installation.". People don't like to hear 
"impossible", and it isn't, just that we don't want to debug the mess it 
leaves. We should also mention backing up the user data in /home/mer).
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Re: Wiki cleanup: tasks

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, August 16, 2013 18:14:05 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On Friday 16 August 2013 17:51:05 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> > And the cleanup begins:
> >
> > http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Tasks
> >
> > The Page lists tasks, why they are important and so on. This was last
> > edited a year ago. Looks like we are not using it anymore. Can this Page
> > be
> > deleted?
> 
> I wouldn't delete it. It should be used as a resource when planning PA5
> (see  what of these things is done and what is still to do). I'd move it to
> development, though.

We can ditch all the tasks in there, a random collection of tasks that isn't 
maintained is not useful, and only adds to the amount of useless information, 
making the actual useful info harder to find.

I'd be for deleting it, or at least emptying it.
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Re: wiki cleanup: GrandMasterPlan

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Michael,

On Friday, August 16, 2013 18:27:40 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/GrandMasterPlan
> 
> This page seems to be fairly up to date because it expresses our long term
> goal and that has not changed i think.
> 
> I removed the part about "status" which said something about when the first
> release is going to happen. And  changed one sentence in "Synapsis" about
> the first releases. See the history for details. 
> 
> I think this can stay the way it is for now. 
> 
> Or do you have any other suggestions ?

The last section on Contour was also outdated, I've removed that. Otherwise, 
the page now looks ok. Much thanks for that!

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Re: GSoC proposal - Network management for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Jan,

On Thursday, April 25, 2013 08:33:22 Jan Grulich wrote:
> >> 4) Add support for activities
> > 
> > Why? What use cases do you have in mind? (I'm not saying it's nonsense,
> > just that it does not directly pop up in front of my virtual eye what
> > will happen here.)
> 
> For example: 1) Home - try to automatically connect to your home wifi
>   2) Work - automatically connect to VPN
>   3) Travel - turn off wifi and mobile broadband or
> active mobile broadband connection
> 
> The fact is, that NetworkManager automatically connects to some
> available and configured connection so maybe activities support will be
> useless.

That could be very useful. I can also imagine to have it switched off (also 
bluetooth, and everything), when you're on a flight or train and want to 
conserve battery -- although that should be possible in any activity).

> >> 5)  if you have any other ideas
> > 
> > I think getting these pieces right would be wonderful. I'd rather see a
> > smaller set of well-working pieces, than a lot of bells and whistles.
> > 
> > One more thing: As you probably know, Plasma2 and Frameworks5 is very much
> > a moving target right now. Before you commit to some kind of timeline,
> > have a good look at how much work needs to be put into porting
> > dependencies before you can actually start on the NM UI. That (and
> > probably most of your other work, too) will benefit also the desktop
> > version (as it often happens with Plasma).
> 
> Could you please tell me more informations about porting to Plasma2 and
> Frameworks5? I can't imagine how long may take porting to Plasma2 a
> Frameworks5.
> I've found only [1] and I think that porting to Plasma2 will be easy,
> but I have no idea about porting to Frameworks5.
> 
> [1] http://community.kde.org/Plasma/PortingTolibplasma2
> 

That, and you'll also need to port to Qt5 and QtQuick2: 
http://qt-project.org/wiki/QML1-vs-QML2

How much work it is depends on a lot of details, though. It's hard to put it 
in a general way. Especially dependencies (such as libnm / libmm not being 
available on top of Qt5 (and their dependencies) might bite you.

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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Michael,

On Thursday, April 25, 2013 19:59:18 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> Considering your feedback I tried to find a project approach that achieves
> two things: 1. Lots of experimentation on the UX side as Thomas (and I) 
> want to use this project to evaluate current Plasma Active UI/UX
> possibilities. 2. A stable/fast application because I don't want to invest
> a summer just to produce something that can/will not be used by anybody.
> 
> So my idea is to use the first half of my time to experiment and produce a
> prototype that can serve as a bases for further UI/UX development for
> Kontact Touch. And use the second half to work on Kontact Touchs codebase
> doing cleanup and gradually port things of the prototype over.This way, the
> results of the second half could be gradually reviewed and merged like it
> was suggested. 
> I think this is a good tradeoff. What do you think?

I don't think this will work very well. You'll just notice you'll run out of 
time towards the end, you might be able to get some useful stuff in, but you 
likely won't be able to finish this way. It's just another way of postponing 
the hard work.

Better: Do design mockups and "getting dirty in the code" simultaneously, SoC 
gives you 40 hours a week, split this up, do 10 hours of design and 30 hours 
of coding / merging each week. (The 10 / 30 split is somewhat random, for me, 
design takes much *actual* sitting down than coding, but needs more "letting 
ideas simmer and become clear". For both parts, pick the ones first that are 
relatively independent from each other, then get the working areas closer 
together / move to bigger pieces. There are enough of the smaller "port the 
use of this item to PlasmaComponents"-style tasks.

This setup also prevents you from going overboard with design, but makes sure 
you're actually working on something achievable. Moreover, you'll want to see 
your design in action, and you want to iterate over it a few times. Pure 
waterfall sucks in that regard.

So, instead of doing en entirely new UI for Kontact Touch, which might be well 
beyond what's possible, try to concentrate on smaller pieces: Do a design 
session on the left-hand-side flap, investigate the mail list, etc, and then 
implement fixes for those. Your current proposal is I think too ambitious and 
bears the risk of never being finished.

In short: Don't redesign, but improve bit by bit, both in design and in code.

One thing that should be added to your proposal is deployment: Thomas won't be 
able to even have a look at your work if you don't update packages on Mer OBS. 
That doesn't have to be a lot of work, but should definitely be part of your 
proposal.

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Re: GSoC proposal - Network management for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 25, 2013 01:14:01 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 17:53:15 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > One more thing++;
> 
> It would be cool if your proposal contained updating test packages in the
> Mer  OBS, so the work can be tested (you'll want to do that anyway) on the
> device, or for example by Thomas, our Usabilty dude and others.
> 
> In PA, we generally think in terms of the whole deployment chain. There's
> good  tools around to make it very easy to get the latest code build and
> deployed onto the device, so it won't be a lot of extra work, but add a lot
> of value to the proposal.

Aaaactually, that quite likely won't work so well yet, as we don't have any 
packages for Frameworks 5 at all, and creating those would be way out of scope 
for your proposal.

So scrap the deployment part. :)
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Re: GSoC proposal - Network management for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 17:53:15 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> One more thing++;

It would be cool if your proposal contained updating test packages in the Mer 
OBS, so the work can be tested (you'll want to do that anyway) on the device, 
or for example by Thomas, our Usabilty dude and others. 

In PA, we generally think in terms of the whole deployment chain. There's good 
tools around to make it very easy to get the latest code build and deployed 
onto the device, so it won't be a lot of extra work, but add a lot of value to 
the proposal.

Cheers,
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Re: GSoC proposal - Network management for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Jan,

On Monday, April 22, 2013 20:08:37 Jan Grulich wrote:
> I would like to join to GSoC and I have my own idea. Since we are
> working on a new plasma network applet I think it would be great to
> improve this applet for Plasma active because the current applet is not
> simply usable. I've already talked about it with Lamarque on the solid
> sprint but I need also some co-mentor from Plasma active (if somebody
> like this idea).
> 
> The idea is:
> *Network applet for Plasma applet written in plasma2:*
> 1) Customize our applet for Plasma active and use plasma2

Or maybe an alternative applet, which shares most of the UI. This should be 
possible with Plasma packages, which can then also be shared with an active 
settings module, or even a KCM. (In the future, it would make sense moving 
both to QML, to be able to share even more code.)

> 2) Write some basic editor in QML instead of using QWidgets and drop
> support for unnecessary devices and properties

Yes, that makes sense.

> 3) Maybe some KCM for Plasma active

As Lamarque pointed out, there's Active Settings. Those are "KCM light done in 
QML". You can basically ship either a pure QML package, or a QML package along 
with a C++ plugin (which is in fact just a QObject subclass). More info here:

http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Plasma/QML/ActiveSettings

> 4) Add support for activities

Why? What use cases do you have in mind? (I'm not saying it's nonsense, just 
that it does not directly pop up in front of my virtual eye what will happen 
here.)

> 5)  if you have any other ideas

I think getting these pieces right would be wonderful. I'd rather see a 
smaller set of well-working pieces, than a lot of bells and whistles.

One more thing: As you probably know, Plasma2 and Frameworks5 is very much a 
moving target right now. Before you commit to some kind of timeline, have a 
good look at how much work needs to be put into porting dependencies before 
you can actually start on the NM UI. That (and probably most of your other 
work, too) will benefit also the desktop version (as it often happens with 
Plasma).

As I said, I could co-mentor you for Plasma, or Active related questions. I've 
written a fair part of the NM UI (still have cut wounds on my arms from 
wrangling NM and QGraphicsWidgets, I can only imagine how fantastic your 
experience must be compared to that ;-)).

Cheers, and good luck with your proposal!
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Tokamak6 report

[Sebastian Kügler]

http://dot.kde.org/2013/04/24/plasma-pow-wow-produces-detailed-plans-workspace-convergence


In case you haven't seen it. :)
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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project - mentor needed

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, April 22, 2013 16:34:44 Kevin Krammer wrote:
> On Monday, 2013-04-22, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 18, 2013 16:28:45 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > Redoing the entire Kmail Touch UI in QML would definitely be too big a
> > > scope for a GSoC project. What I want to have in the end is something
> > > which shows the path ahead and can be built upon.
> >
> > On that note, I think it would be best to do the GSoC as small mergable
> > steps, that can go in one for one. As most of the code is already done in
> > QML, a ton of small patches that go into master one for one would probably
> > be nicer than to create one big branch that has to be merged at some scary
> > point in time.
> >
> > This is of course mostly up to Kevin, I guess, as he'll likely be
> > reviewing
> > most of the code, I just wanted to chime in in case it hasn't been thought
> > of.
> 
> The problem with that approach usually is that master gets frozen during
> the  GSoC period.
> While we could probably make an exception for code that goes into 
> kdepim/mobile (I don't think we official release that), some changes could 
> affect even kdepimlibs and we certainly don't want to risk master branch 
> there.
> 
> Suggestions welcome though

Idea: The "go in" doesn't have to be master, while master is frozen, the 
patches could get "reviewed into" another branch, which gets merged whenever 
master is unfrozen.

The reason why I propose this is because I think it could become quite the 
monster project, that will take very long to stabilize and achieve feature 
parity again. A "kernel style" development process usually prevents that from 
happening quite effectively.

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Re: GSoC proposal - Network management for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Jan,

On Monday, April 22, 2013 20:08:37 Jan Grulich wrote:
> I would like to join to GSoC and I have my own idea. Since we are working on
> a new plasma network applet I think it would be great to improve this
> applet for Plasma active because the current applet is not simply usable.
> I've already talked about it with Lamarque on the solid sprint but I need
> also some co-mentor from Plasma active (if somebody like this idea).

Cool thing. I might be able to co-mentor you. I'll let the idea sink and will 
provide feedback.

> The idea is:
> Network applet for Plasma applet written in plasma2:
> 1) Customize our applet for Plasma active and use plasma2
> 2) Write some basic editor in QML instead of using QWidgets and drop support
> for unnecessary devices and properties 3) Maybe some KCM for Plasma active
> 4) Add support for activities
> 5)  if you have any other ideas
> 
> Thanks for your feedback.

Cheers,
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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project - mentor needed

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 16:28:45 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > Redoing the UI entirely in QML would mean:
> > - heavily compromise on features, at least for the first iteration during
> > GSoC - reuse the existing models from Kontact Touch for the message and
> > folder lists
> > - refactor the remaining required bits of widget based code for model/view
> > separation. IIRC this will mainly affect the composer, which is still an
> > embedded widget.
> > 
> > The first two seem implicitly already present in the proposal, the last
> > one
> > might be a bit underestimated.
> 
> Redoing the entire Kmail Touch UI in QML would definitely be too big a 
> scope for a GSoC project. What I want to have in the end is something 
> which shows the path ahead and can be built upon.

On that note, I think it would be best to do the GSoC as small mergable steps, 
that can go in one for one. As most of the code is already done in QML, a ton 
of small patches that go into master one for one would probably be nicer than 
to create one big branch that has to be merged at some scary point in time.

This is of course mostly up to Kevin, I guess, as he'll likely be reviewing 
most of the code, I just wanted to chime in in case it hasn't been thought of.

Cheers,
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Re: Cookies in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 17:21:09 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 18.04.2013 16:48, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > I'm thinking about looking at snowshoe, so not quite sure what kind of
> > future hte webbrowser has. Its development is simply lacking manpower
> > right now, which really is the root cause of this problem.
> 
> I agree: A web browser is a central application for a tablet, and it's 
> not something you can get to feature parity with other major products 
> with a development team of one person, even if you get the rendering 
> engine for free. You did great work on our Browser, but I don't think it 
> makes much sense for you to continue developing it alone.
> 
> So maybe adapting an existing corr-platform browser to our needs might 
> be the more sensible solution in the long run, unless we find a lot more 
> people willing to hack on the PA Browser.

The problem (and advantage at the same time) of snowshoe is that it's written 
in Qt5, so we can't just add our features in, but would have to wait for 
Frameworks 5 to appear. SLC could *maybe* be done with some D-Bus magic, but 
things like cookiejar, KIO, KSSL integration would have to wait for F5.

So our situation is:
  
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Re: Cookies in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 16:00:58 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 18. April 2013, 15:47:05 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:
> > On Thursday, April 18, 2013 15:08:51 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > > is there a way to set, if cookies are rejected or accepted?
> >
> > Not in the Plasma Active UI. If installed, it can be done from Konqueror
> > or
> > Rekonq.
> 
> I did find konqueror in the repos and installed it in my PA4 Virtualbox 
> installation.
> But this is not the best way for users who are concerned about their
> privacy.  I think it has to go to settings.

... which means it needs a rewrite in QML. It's on the same "webbrowser TODO 
stack" as SSL support in the UI.

I'm thinking about looking at snowshoe, so not quite sure what kind of future 
hte webbrowser has. Its development is simply lacking manpower right now, 
which really is the root cause of this problem.

>From the Plasma Active user's point of view, managing cookies is not supported 
at this point, unfortunately.
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Re: Cookies in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 15:08:51 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> is there a way to set, if cookies are rejected or accepted?

Not in the Plasma Active UI. If installed, it can be done from Konqueror or 
Rekonq.
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Re: Cookies in PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 16:53:12 Sascha Manns wrote:
> Hello guys,
> 
> just a question: if i'm surfing with the PA Browser, where the Browser
> stores the Cookies?

The browser uses KIO, and thus KCookieJar, like Konqueror. So cookies are 
stored in ~/.kde4/share/apps/kcookiejar

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Re: Feedback Plasma Active Weekly and some questions

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Karaca,

First of all, thanks for your feedback! Inline, find answers to your 
questions.

On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:58:19 Karaca wrote:
> Now some questions:
> [1]
> 
> what are the differences between:
> 
> https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/d
> evel/weekly/
> https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/
> devel/weekly-next-mer-preview/
> https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/
> testing/weekly/ May be some kind of Debian-Like stability rating? But the
> timestamps were confusing. No "stable" monthly?

Correct, no stable monthly version. Just install stable and zypper dup.

> [2]
> 
> how can i build my own ISO with Radeon driver, my Wi-Fi driver, updated
> packages, Media Player and Calligra? I have already installed and run the
> 
> https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK
> but using SUSE build service to compile a Tizen compatible Mer core to use
> Plasma Active with a MeeGo account(!) is somehow beyond my multitasking
> capabilities ;-) Is there a simpler way? Like Gentoo: edit 2-3 text files
> for arch/compiler settings, wanted packages, recommended/not-wanted
> packages, ... call the script and go drinking coffee ...

You could put it like that, or just say "I used kickstarter to build a new 
Plasma Active image". Apart from that, it's Open Build Service (no SUSE in the 
name, though it has been developed at SUSE). We've just moved repositories 
away from Meego infrastructure, because that's going to be shut down.

> [3]
> what about version 4? Aaron blogged "end of March", official wiki announces
> 26. March, ... i could not find a pre-version today. Dropped?

We've needed some time to fix important bugs. What you're running basically 
*is* the pre-version, it is pretty close to what's becoming Plasma Active 4. 
We're not doing a strictly time-based cycle.

> [4]
> can one of you approve my MeeGo account request or forward this? I have
> requested it with this yahoo openId and got feedback "after your mail
> account is verified ..." but no verification mail since four days and
> complete silence in IRC #mer channel.

Ask lbt on #mer on irc.freenode.net.

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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project - mentor needed

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hey Michael,

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 23:36:38 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> @Sebas
> I didn't know OBS was that powerful. thanks for sharing. I will have to
> learn about OBS try to set it up.

OBS is a very powerful beast, and in terms of making the whole process from 
source code to device, I think it's quite unmatched. It takes a bit of 
learning, and in my experience, you'll end up having a few scripts that manage 
things for you, but most of the setup is already done, so you should be able 
to just pull packages out of the repos, maybe clone them in your home repo for 
the time being and have packages more or less rebuilt as you git push.

> "Would it then not be better to have someone from PA be the primary mentor
> for this?"
> 
> Thomas Pfeiffer is form PA but not a developer, so he can't be a Mentor I
> guess. The code I am intending to write will sure look a lot like what we
> have in plasma-mobile and declarative-plasmoids. I hang around in #active
> for some time now and feel comfortable working with the PA guys so I
> wouldn't mind getting mentored by one of them. But having someone with KDE
> PIM knowledge who makes you aware of possible performance problems and can
> help with questions regarding Akonadi is also really useful.
> 
> Any opinion from the PA developers on this?

Thomas would be a fine mentor, if he wants to do it. It doesn't mean that he 
can review all your code, but that's not the primary role of a mentor anyway, 
it's more a guide through your project. You can always get help with code 
questions on the Plasma and PIM lists, irc channels, etc. For code reviews, it 
would be cool if you can do your changes in an iterative way, i.e. come up 
with a plan, and then migrate component for component to your new UI. As 
Kontact Touch is already written in QML, that sounds feasible.

An interesting approach would be to just start changing a few delegates to 
using Plasma Components instead of the hand-rolled UI bits that Kontact Touch 
uses currently. This could make quite a huge difference already, and it's 
always nice to see visual results early on in the projects. It also gives a 
good way to learn to work with the code base, as you can start on fairly self-
contained smaller tasks, and work yourself up to overall workflow tasks that 
way.

The success of your project will, in any case, likely be expressed in terms of 
code lines removed, rather than added. :)

Good luck with your proposal,
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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project - mentor needed

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 15:30:51 Kevin Krammer wrote:
> > Otherwise testing if the UI works on Tablet will be hard and I have no
> > Idea
> > how to compile stuff for my ARM based Nexus 7.
> > Waiting for our merproject build servers to compile stuff would also be
> > quiet time consuming.
> 
> I would expect that Plasma UI does also work on the desktop or inside a
> viewer  application. AFAIK it is possible to build and run Kontact touch
> like its normal version, just using QtQuick as the UI layer.

That's surely possible as well, though it makes it hard to judge touch-
friendliness and performance, since most desktop / laptop systems don't have a 
touchscreen and are quite a bit beefier than the target devices.
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Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch GSOC Project - mentor needed

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 13:55:27 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> I did some minor things for PA with PlasmaComponets already and feel
> relatively comfortable using it. The reason I suggested this approach is,
> that it allows me to got through a lot of design ideas with my Co Mentor.
> Otherwise testing if the UI works on Tablet will be hard and I have no Idea
> how to compile stuff for my ARM based Nexus 7. Waiting for our merproject
> build servers to compile stuff would also be quiet time consuming. I
> consider the UX design/rework the main part of my project and like to
> experiment a lot during the mockup phase.

That's not a problem. OBS can do cross-builds also on your local machine. If 
you want to shorten the cycles, you can even script most of this process, 
roughly: 

- reroll tarball into your OBS checkout
- rebuild using osc build
- scp the resulting package over to your device
- use ssh to install the package in your device

This will cut down the develop-testing cycles quite a bit, and you should be 
able to do that with just one script on your host.

If you're doing most of the work in QML, you can even go further and just 
rsync your changed qml files into the install dir of the device, though you 
need to be a bit careful with that, obviously.

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Re: owncloud sync

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 04, 2013 09:46:23 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> i installed the owncloud client and tested it. It works with my owncloud 
> installation. I could sync my music-files and my pictures files without 
> problems. Is it ready for PA4? If yes, it should be made public.
> 
> For me it seems, that PA4 is really getting in shape.

Thank for testing. I think it's ready for PA4, not sure how to advertise it.
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Re: short recap on status

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, April 01, 2013 15:11:49 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > > > > - after using my wetab for a longer time, the screen gets darker and
> > > > > it is not possible to get it lighter. So there still seems to be
> > > > > something with the powermanagement.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think this has anything to do with PA's power management code,
> > > > since it pops up pretty randomly on WeTab, varying from boot to boot.
> > > > It's pretty annoying, but I think it's caused by a problem on a much
> > > > lower level of the stack  Try rebooting, it might work perfectly
> > > > next time...
> > >
> > > Good to know, that it is not the fault of PA
> >
> > I'm not entirely sure, but it looks like that to me.
> 
> As  the brightness of the screen on my wetab did not get brighter, i tried 
> discharging it. At about 30% battery-status, the screen got bright again.
> I will wait, if the screen gets darker again, and then try the same. Wetabs 
> fault or PAs fault?

I've noticed that some wetabs try to be smart about screen brightness, and set 
it depending on the surrounding light (so if you put the finger above the 
sensor, it changes brightness). THat's utterly annoying, but as far as I know, 
nothing we can do about it.
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[Active] [Bug 304877] None of the powersaving settings appear to have influence

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=304877

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|CONFIRMED   |RESOLVED
 CC||se...@kde.org
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #11 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Confirmed working now.

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Re: List of PA4 release blockers

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, March 25, 2013 21:37:44 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=critical&bug_severity=grave&bu
> g_severity=major&bug_severity=crash&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIR
> MED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=Active&list_id=564029
> 
> That one should work...

It does, yes.

The list says that the power management is broken, Oliver Henshaw committed a 
bunch of fixes for that. Are these already in this image?
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[Active] [Bug 317099] Network settings dialogs do not trigger virtual keyboard

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317099

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #1 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Not a problem here, with latest image. Could you recheck?

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Re: GSOC Kontact Touch

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 20:04:52 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 February 2013, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > On Tuesday 26 February 2013 17:12:43 Michael Bohlender wrote:
> > > I'd like to participate in GSOC 2013.  This year’s theme is "KDE++ aka
> > > polish everything" so Kontact Touch seems to be a good candidate in my
> > > eyes.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Absolutely! Kontact Touch is one of our strong points functionality-wise,
> > but the UI clearly needs a major face lift for it to become a prime Plasma
> > Active citizen. So yes, it is a great candidate for polishing!
> 
> and btw, right now was an attempt to have almost 1:1 functionality of the
> full  kontact...
> if it got simplified down quite a bit, but what remains would start to work 
> very well, i would be happy
> 
> > It is not supposed to stay this way and you are free to experiment, but
> > since you'll likely define some new standards with this, I'd like to
> > co-mentor you to keep an eye on things.
> 
> yeah, in the end a new ui would be discussed here just as usually happens
> for  the other bits.
> and as mentor for ui design, I fully support Thomas.
> what would be super cool is a kdepim developer to mentor the code part.

Putting kde-pim back into CC: :)
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Re: Packaging of Calligra for PA

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, February 11, 2013 22:42:08 Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> 1. Step: Packaging setup
> 
> What do you recommend to me to try & test the packaging?
> 
> I have available:
> * ExoPC (as spread by Intel on the Berlin DesktopSummit)
> * 64-bit desktop computer running OpenSuse Tumbleweed with some cores to use
> 
> In MeeGo times I had some chrooted image on my laptop where I tried the 
> packaging locally before I pushed any changed to OBS. I scanned the PA wiki 
> pages shortly for something similar, but did not find any real notes about
> packaging.
> 
> So how do you do the packaging?
> 
> Ah, just discovered that Mer seems to have continued that approach to a
> devel  env: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK
> And Mer also would be the most interesting platform to me, so would favor
> to  test/do packaging there.

Yep, exactly that. :)

> And how are packaging rules ported between the different platforms (Mer, 
> MeeGo, Balsam/OpenSuse 12.1, other?) supported ATM? 

Easy: they are not shared. We usually do the packaging on top of Mer, and have 
other distros pick it up, possibly being inspired by the Mer packaging. Mer is 
the only system we do QA for, with our limited resources.

> Now please your hints.
> Will try to summarize and put up into the wiki, once I have a picture.

If you've questions, #active and #mer are useful resources on IRC, so is this 
list (as you've discovered).

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Re: testing

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, February 05, 2013 19:58:09 Marco Martin wrote:
> Hi all,
> as of today, nepomuk-filled data in the activity screen should be back as
> normal (in the repositories, not in the published image)
> 
> what i would like to, is to get again a torough testing of the image (either
> updating, or waiting a new image comes out)
> 
> and after that, another area that needs some testng, is the integration
> branch (that means enable it in the active settings ui, then zypper
> refresh/zypper up)
> 
> there are 3 things there to be tested at the moment:
> * the notifications applet should have changed (well, it looks the same but
> basically is success if they still work)
> * ui to delete tags in the file browser (side swipe them)
> * a little change in okular mobile (the size tab to open the side panel is
> always visible)
> 
> once those 3 have been confirmed to work, they can be merged in master

Mixed success here. After upgrading, compositing doesn't work anymore. I'll 
have a look into that next week, or might do a reinstall from a devel image.

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[Active] [Bug 310506] When connected to AC power, screen locks and device sleeps every minute

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310506

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #2 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
It seems to be fixed on my viewtab.

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Re: touch optimized ksnapshot

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 17:22:04 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Another idea: I'd love to see "Take Screenshot" built into SLC "like" by 
> default, available in every application. If I like what I see on the screen,
> I  can preserve it as a screenshot.

Should that not be "If I want to share what I see ..."? So a usecase for 
share, not for like? Otherwise, yes, cool idea. :)
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[Active] [Bug 313133] gap when task switches is pulled down completly

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=313133

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 CC||se...@kde.org
 Resolution|--- |INVALID

--- Comment #2 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
This is not a bug. The top bar is not supposed to cover the whole screen, but
be a peak area. This is visually supported by not covering the whole "app
space".

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Re: plasma active 1

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hey Mathieu,

On Monday, December 31, 2012 15:16:22 Mathieu Jobin wrote:
> may I ask why?
> is the company not providing some secret drivers?
> where does it get stuck? 
> 
> isn't it possible to run PlasmaActive on the ztpad c71 "standard" (512MB)
> ...  then, it should be possible on the the upgraded one, no?

It's a lack of open drivers indeed.

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[Active] [Bug 310508] Repaint issue in Task Switcher

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310508

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|CONFIRMED   |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #3 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Fixed, see thread "Rendering problems in kwin and active" on the active@kde.org
list.

Please reopen if the problem resurfaces.

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Re: Task-centric system planning

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:00:28 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On Thursday 27 December 2012 10:52:17 Marco Martin wrote:
> > just checking on this: so it will be on saturday 29?
> 
> Yes. Hm, did my confirmation mail from the 19th not get through...?
>  
> > what time?
> 
> 14:00 - 16:00 CET in our IRC channel #active.
> 
> I hope to see at least everyone who agreed to that date on Doodle, and
> maybe  some more (Aaron? Sebas?)

I think I've put it in the agenda already, sorry for not checking the doodle, 
but we should be fine. :)

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Re: activities save and restore

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 22:37:06 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 December 2012, Marco Martin wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 December 2012, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 19:30:04 Marco Martin wrote:
> > > > what happens is that at stop containments are correctly stored (in the
> > > > above directory, one per file)
> > > > then sometimes, it fails to restore the containment leading to an
> > > > empty
> > > > one, sometimes no containment at all.
> > >
> > > if kamd reports the wrong activity information, it is possible that
> > > libplasma does not load the activity information from the file -> empty
> > > activity -> save out -> nothing in the file?
> >
> > i got it building on a virtualbox instance in mer...
> > and it gets broken only when i do a release build.
> > that's why we are not seeing this, we are always running a debug build
> >
> > that means the problem is in some code conditionally built only on debug
> > builds
> > (i remember once a bug in kactivitymanager was an operation done inside a
> > kDebug() << statement, it may be that again)
> 
> and indeed that was it (a QMetaObject::invokeMethod in Start.cpp hidden
> behind  a kDebug())
> fixed it in KDE/4.10 and master, so the desktop should be fine as well

You rock, Marco!
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Re: activities save and restore

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 20:19:05 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Marco Martin  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm debugging a problem in active, where activities are not correctly
> restored at boot. then i remembered one thing: also with plasma on desktop
> some weeks ago i had the same problem, of "disappearing" activities if
> someone is running from master, did this issue happens too? can you see if
> there are empty files (0 length) in
> ~/.kde4/share/apps/plasma-desktop/activities/
> 
> I can confirm it's a kactivitymanagerd issue, reverting it with an old rpm
> from active3 fixes the issue completely.
> 
> so now the regression has to be found (quickly) since is definitely
> something that may affect the KDE 4.10 release too

I haven't seen this issue on my system. Do you have a reliable way to 
reproduce it (I take it you don't)? If I can reproduce it, I could do the 
bisecting.
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Re: Krita Sketch for Plasma Active

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 13:02:45 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> We do not want to create new files from within applications,

How does a user create a new file?
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[Bug 285473] RFC: replace the current Contour Icon in the upper corner through a home/house icon

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=285473

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #6 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
The icon should git the general style of icons in the panel. If its
inconsistency with the SLC icons are needed for clarity of the UI, the SLC
icons should probably be grouped visually. The home icon sticking out is the
wrong "solution" for that.

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[Bug 311219] On the activity screen, button add widget causes crash of plasma desktop

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311219

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #1 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Please regenerate this backtrace with debugging symbols for kde-runtime
installed. The interesting part of this backtrace is missing.

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[Bug 274580] plasma-tablet applets strip: folderview breaks rendering of applets right of it

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274580

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDSINFO   |RESOLVED
 CC||se...@kde.org
 Resolution|WAITINGFORINFO  |FIXED

--- Comment #6 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
This part of the code in the Activity Screen has changed considerably, solving
this whole class of bugs. I recall folderview being problematic in other QML
containments, as well, also these issues are gone now.

I'm closing this bug since the problem showing in the screenshot is gone, and
folderview doesn't exhibit any strange behaviour anymore. If you still
encounter this bug, please file a new report (with new screenshot).

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Re: Stability of Devel repos

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, November 24, 2012 21:44:50 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Is it okay if I still report bugs in Active unless I know which 
> component/project/product they're caused by, and then you'll report them to 
> the appropriate project?

Yep, sure. :)
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Re: Stability of Devel repos

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, November 23, 2012 14:06:24 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> That's why I'm thinking if maybe it makes more sense to not build our Devel 
> packages from Git every day, but keep the latest stable versions and only
> build from Git if we actually depend on newer code. I don't know if that's
> technically feasible, but it would make it easier to see whether bugs were
> caused by us or not.

It might not be what we want: If something in devel breaks, and we don't do 
regular updates from that, we'll just see the breakager later. The point of 
the devel repo is not that it's usable, but to reveal problems.

We used the testing repo for the "sync once in a while but only when things 
mostly work" case.
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Re: Quality Management in PA?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 17:19:05 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 20.11.2012 14:44, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 14:24:56 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> >> Do you think such a position would be beneficial for Plasma Active at
> >> this point, and if so, do you think I should do it or someone else?
> > 
> > Yes, and I think you're doing this fine. Don't worry about the nagging
> > about bugs, it's not perceived as nagging, but as help with improving
> > quality.
>
> Good to hear, as that's going to be part of my job now

Adriaan used to bounce around Akademies with a pink whip he inherited from 
Matthew Rosewarne. Maybe we need to dig that one up again and hand it to you. 
:P
 
> > Thanks for stepping up!
> 
> Welcome.
> I guess the first thing I'll need to get going is the necessary rights 
> for our project on Bugzilla. I don't know yet exactly which these are, 
> but the more the better I guess

If you need anything specific to be adjusted, you can ask sysadmin (via 
bugzilla, so you're getting even more used to it ;-)): 
https://bugs.kde.org/enter_sysadmin_request.cgi

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Re: Quality Management in PA?

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 14:24:56 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Do you think such a position would be beneficial for Plasma Active at 
> this point, and if so, do you think I should do it or someone else?

Yes, and I think you're doing this fine. Don't worry about the nagging about 
bugs, it's not perceived as nagging, but as help with improving quality. :)

Thanks for stepping up!
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Re: Fwd: Re: Typography HIG

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 19:48:22 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Andrew Lake has written up some ideas for a typography guideline for Plasma
> Active. I'm still working on creating an HIG based on it, but as Aaron
> suggested, you may be interested in the raw input from Andrew as well, so
> you'll find it attached.

First of all, thanks both for working on this. I think good typography 
guidelines can really make a huge difference. It's also a bit of a sore point 
to me, since it's used a little ad-hoc currently.

More detailed comments, however:

In general I'd like to see font size used as primary means for distinction 
between levels, bold font usage should be reduced to an absolute minimum (and 
certainly not to style headings, at most to emphasize words within text. The 
same goes for italics, so maybe bold for emphasis, italics for quotes. 
Capitalization should not be used at all, this leads to "screaming UIs". 
Translucent fonts are a good means for "additional info" or secondary text 
(such as a date in a microblog message, for example, often combined with 
"smaller text" in order to not distract from the main content, or for sub 
titles. 
(This is roughly what I've been implementing in Active Settings, in the 
microblog app, in the ownCloud modules and to a certain degree in the News 
Reader app.)

In our code, I think these typography guidelines need to be implemented in two 
ares: Plasma::Theme::styleSheet() and in PlasmaExtras.
Plasma::Theme::styleSheet() was introduced I think 1.5 years ago, it can be 
used in a WebView to style structured text, and covers things like heading, 
paragraphs and links (, , {...}, , ).
About half a year ago, we introduced a number of components in Plasma Quick 
that allow us to style text consistently. It's based on text structure and 
contains Title, Heading (of level 1 to 5) and Paragraph and they all inherit 
from PlasmaComponents.Label. 

When/if those are used, we gain much tighter control on how typography is used 
throughout Plasma, leading to a more consistent appearance of "everything 
text". The usage guidelines for those are missing, and the components are also 
not perfect yet. I suppose the style of those components will be changed 
according to what we make out of this typography guideline.

I've attached an example QML file which you can use to test the components and 
play around with it. The code should be pretty self-explanatory, even to the 
QML-untrained. =)

You can run it with 
qmlviewer -I `kde4-config --prefix`/lib/kde4/imports/ Typography.qml

I've committed this as a new page to the widgetgallery in kdeexamples.

There's one more thing that has been bugging me forever with respect to 
typography: Our font, or rather the font that ends up being default on 
different distros. I think only Ubuntu chooses this consciously, for branding 
reasons, in all other implementations, it ends up being whatever is linked to 
"Sans" and can be Helvetica in some cases. It doesn't look exactly modern. I 
think the Oxygen font is mature enough, and we should change our default from 
Sans to Oxygen (with proper fallbacks). So more control over fonts on our 
side, distros that want to change it can still do so.
In Plasma active we're using Droid Sans as default so far. It's a nice font 
but should also be changed to Oxygen. (That's basically what the "Typeface" 
part  in the pdf says, but specific to Plasma.)

Moreover, the Typography guideline should be applied to all of Plasma, not 
just Plasma Active.

Thanks again for the effort on this so far. It might not be too evident, but I 
think the guidelines are already pretty good (especially many of the details 
are very valuable things to codify, especially bits about alignment, UI 
balance, etc.).

I'm volunteering to implement the changes needed, based on the typography. :)

Cheers,
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import QtQuick 1.1
import org.kde.plasma.components 0.1 as PlasmaComponents
import org.kde.plasma.extras 0.1 as PlasmaExtras

Item {
id: root

width: 640
height: 700

Column {
anchors {
fill: parent
margins: 12
}
spacing: 12

PlasmaExtras.Title {
text: "Typography in Plasma Quick"
}
PlasmaExtras.Heading {
level: 1
text: "Examples of Text"
}
PlasmaExtras.Heading {
level: 3
text: "Email from Thomas"
}
PlasmaExtras.Paragraph {
text: "Andrew Lake has written up some ideas for a typography guideline for Plasma Active. I'm still working on creating an HIG based on it, but as Aaron suggested, you may be interested in the raw input from Andrew as well, so you'll find it attached. Andrew Lake has written up some ideas for a typography guideline for Plasma Active. I'm still working on creating an HIG based on it, but as Aaron suggested, you may be interested in

Re: integration branch in plasma-mobile

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Sunday, November 18, 2012 16:04:00 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 18:43:00 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > When is the integration branch updated from the topic branches?
> 
> i'll be doing this at least each monday, more frequently for branches that
> are  either moving faster, when requested or if i'm super bored. ;)

That works for me. :)
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Re: integration branch in plasma-mobile

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, November 17, 2012 19:37:49 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Saturday 17 November 2012, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > When is the integration branch updated from the topic branches?
> 
> as i understood it,  when you do important changes in the topic branch that 
> really may affect the review of the thing, you merge again your topic
> branch in integration.
> also, merge only when the topic branch got "good enough for you" ie doesn't 
> have important breakages you know of

Right, that sounds good. I didn't take into account that we could merge into 
integration ourselves. Sounds fine to me. :)
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Re: integration branch in plasma-mobile

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 16:08:31 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> hello ...
> 
> so i *finally* got around to creating the integration branch in
> plasma-mobile.
> 
> from this point forward, only peer reviewed bug fixes and obvious, can't-be-
> wrong trivial fixes should be pushed into master.
> 
> ALL other activity must occur in topic branches. once the branch is ready to
> be pushed, create a review request on reviewboard.kde.org and after initial
> review, i will merge it into the integration branch.
> 
> topic branches should be started from the master branch.
> 
> all pre-release testing should be done using the integration branch.
> 
> every monday, all topic branches will be merged into master that have:
> 
> * successfully been merged in the integration branch
> * have been tested and peer reviewed with an explicit +1 from at lesat one
> other core developer and/or tester
> 
> at that point, i will then rebase the integration branch on master and re-
> integrate all branches under review. this will make it a messy branch in
> terms of git history since it will be rebased often; this is not a problem
> as it will never merged back into master. this means *no commits* should
> ever be made directly to the integration branch. only to topic branches.
> 
> cheers, and best of luck to us all in this new experiment :)

When is the integration branch updated from the topic branches?
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Re: Fwd: Re: Typography HIG

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 21:26:09 Marco Martin wrote:
> * font "classes" so, right now we just have defaultFont, smallestFont.
> what i see from the proposal seems to move the font classes and
> configuration  more similar to a text document, so stuff like header,
> contents, active.. rather than the classes coming from the desktop (to
> which i didn't do qml bindings yet) like titlebar, toolbar, desktop etc...
> 
> of the proposal i like the general idea of keeping it simple ;)
> 
> I would like indeed a more typographic text document approach, also to 
> consider is how much this will impact the work on the desktop as well...

We have the basics for that in PlasmaExtras: Title, Heading { level:  }, 
and Paragraph.

I haven't had time to read the proposed document in detail, but will attempt 
to do so as soon as I'm back from travelling.
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Re: plasma-mobile branches...

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 15:59:52 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>   origin/activewebbrowser

>   origin/sebas/activewebbrowser
>   origin/sebas/browser-nepomuk
>   origin/sebas/plasmaextracomponents
>   origin/sebas/settings
>   origin/sebas/settingscomponent

Those can go.

Thanks for cleaning up!
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Re: owncloud

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Wolfgang,

On Thursday, November 08, 2012 19:10:00 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> i hope, writing about my expieriences with onwcloud 4.5 in PA3 in this
> place  is o.k.

Yes, sure. Synching is an important aspect of Plasma, and as we're planning to 
include basic file synching via ownCloud in the next release, it's quite 
ontopic.

Background: I'm working on a Plasma synching client for ownCloud, but haven't 
made much fuzz about it yet. I'll do that in the coming weeks, and then we'll 
get it ready for PA4.

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Re: pdf in owncloud

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, November 07, 2012 20:59:56 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > I highly doubt that this has something to do with ownCloud. Where the file
> > is coming from simply does not matter to things like pageflipping, or the
> > keyboard coming up, so it has to be something else. (It can always be a
> > weird coincidence of course, that makes us believe it has something to do
> > with ownCloud.)
> 
> What Wolfgang has been talking about for the last few emails is ownCloud's
> own  viewing/editing interface for documents inside Browser, not files
> downloaded from ownCloud and then viewed with other applications.

Ah, I was confused indeed, thanks for clearing it up. :)
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Re: pdf in owncloud

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, November 07, 2012 16:54:57 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > > i have loaded the latest edition of the "freies Magazin"
> > > (http://www.freiesmagazin.de/) as a pdf-file to my owncloud and tried to
> > > open it in PA3 on my WeTap. The pdf is rederend, but i can not move on
> > > the pages. So it works in part.
> >
> > 
> >
> > silly questions time: how did you try to move the page? up and down only,
> > or also left and right?
> >
> > 
> 
> As the page was shown in pagewidth mode, i only tried to move down, which
> was  not possible. Maybe it is a problem similar to the fact that i can't
> edit txt- files in owncloud, as the keyxboard does not pop up.

I highly doubt that this has something to do with ownCloud. Where the file is 
coming from simply does not matter to things like pageflipping, or the 
keyboard coming up, so it has to be something else. (It can always be a weird 
coincidence of course, that makes us *believe* it has something to do with 
ownCloud.)

What editor are you using, by the way?
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Re: Talking to the user

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Wolfgang,

On Thursday, November 01, 2012 14:57:45 Wolfgang Romey wrote:
> > > I thought, that it would be helpfull for feedback, so i could tell my
> > > PA3
> > > is up to date. Now i do zypper refresh allmost daily, to see, if
> > > sommething has changed.
> >
> > That is not really necessary. If there is a bug that really annoys you:
> > Put
> > yourself on the CC list and wait until it's fixed. Then update. New
> > features usually won't be backported, so there's no need to hope for that.
> 
> What is the CC list?

It's a list of people interested in this bugreport. If you add yourself to 
this list, you get an email every time the bug changes (status, comments, 
etc.).

> Will the improvements of the sprints merged into Master and available in
> PA3?

Yes and no. They'll be merged into master, but not made available as part of 
PA3. You will however be able to add a repository with latest packages, so you 
can upgrade to the development version.

Bugfixes might be backported to the stable packages.

> The most important for me are the crashes in  the browser and
> bangarang. Both are, as you know of course, really annoying and prevent me
> from showing PA3 to an average user. The tinkerer has eyes for the leading
> concepts, the average user in my opinion not.
> 
> > > In an earlier mail i wrote, that i had Kstars on my wetap, when i used
> > > the balsam iso. For me, it was very good usable, as you only have to
> > > configure it once and only sometimes have to change the location. I
> > > think, it could be as attractiv to users as marble.
> >
> > We might add that one, yes. Installing applications will be a lot easier
> > when the infrastructure for getting apps via Add Ons is in place.
> > The Kstars team is currently actually working on an Active version of
> > their
> > application (at least they talked to me about it during Akademy) so things
> > will be even better there soon!
> 
> That would be great. It would be cool, to find soon a few applications in
> Add  Ons, so one can see and show the perspective.
> 
> BTW, is there something an advanced user can do for PA, for example 
> translations?

Grooming the Wiki would be useful. Testing is useful, user support, and of 
course translation. For the latter, see http://i18n.kde.org/

Cheers,
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Re: sum up of yesterday IRC meeting

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 12:10:38 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday, October 28, 2012 23:32:37 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Friday, October 26, 2012 16:46:52 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > so yes, sebas is working on syncing w/owncloud
> >
> > 
> >
> > Yep  g...@github.com:sebasje/mirall.git the plasmaclient branch. If you
> > want to try it
> 
> given not everyone here will have the ability to do this, would it be
> possible  at some point to put together a screenshot show (or screencast
> demo, whichever) showing it in action?

Yep, but it's on the same list as package it for Active, and blog about it. 
(Jotting down a few things in an email costs way less time. :)). If anybody 
gets to doing it in the meantime, feel most welcome. :)
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Re: sum up of yesterday IRC meeting

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, October 26, 2012 16:46:52 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> so yes, sebas is working on syncing w/owncloud

Yep :) g...@github.com:sebasje/mirall.git the plasmaclient branch. If you want 
to try it: build the owncloud csync dep (docs on owncloud.org how to build the 
client), and then instead of the tarball, build the plasmaclient branch. There 
might be hardcoded pathes in there still, but it might give a rough idea where 
it's heading. There's a systray plasmoid, a KCM module, an active settings 
module and a daemon in there. Status is roughly "it works on my machine". ;-)

Basic file synching seems achievable for PA4.

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Re: Enabling UMTS on Archos G9 in Plasma Active

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, October 26, 2012 13:52:30 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 26.10.2012 13:30, Maurice de la Ferte wrote:
> > we added 3G/UMTS support to our latest Archos Gen9 Plasma Active devel and
> > testing images. Great thanks to Ruediger Gad who did this work and also
> > published accurate dokumentation about on
> > http://ruedigergad.com/2012/10/07/enabling-umts-on-archos-g9-in-plasma-ac
> > tive/#more-566

> Very nice!
> Are there plans to get 3G running on Wetab 3G/Exopc as well?

In principle it should work already. What are the specific problems?
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[Bug 308715] Plasma Active crashes, expecially while dragging down top bar

[Sebastian Kügler]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=308715

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #3 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Install the debug packages, then start "gdb --args plasma-device", when you get
back to the gdb commandline (right after the crash), enter "bt" and copy paste
the backtrace here.

Thanks!

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Re: taglines on PA3 website.

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, October 15, 2012 20:57:35 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 15.10.2012 01:33, Carl Symons wrote:
> > This is the last video that Marco posted.
> > 
> >> and, hopefully the last one (this time higher res)
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulcizzAj-N4
> 
> That one is correct, but the reviewers guide points to 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGbLQNNJlSE

Fixed. :)
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Re: release

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday, October 15, 2012 00:24:12 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday, October 14, 2012 23:37:40 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > On 06.10.2012 00:11, Carl Symons wrote:
> > > Where is the microblogging app? Is there such a thing?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Since the microbblogging app is now mentioned on the live website: Could
> > somebody please tell me which application is referred to here?
> > Let's just assume I'm an avid microblogger, I'm excited by the news that
> > PA
> > now has an application for me, have installed the PA3 Mer image and could
> > not find an application called Microblogging or anything similar. Where
> > can
> > I find it?
> 
> it's a news reader, not a microblogging app... we really do need to hook up 
> one of the several microblogging apps that are floating around, however :)

No, it's really a microblogging app. There's *also* a news reader, even in the 
same repo.
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Plasma Active 3 Improves Performance, Brings New Apps

[Sebastian Kügler]

Plasma Active 3 Improves Performance, Brings New Apps

KDE has released the 3rd stable version of Plasma Active, KDE's device-
independent user experience. The Plasma Active user interface is touch-
friendly and works well across a range of devices. Its Activities function 
gives users a natural way to organize and access their applications, files and 
information. Plasma Active Three noticeably improves the user experience with 
its enhanced and expanded set of apps, improved performance and a new virtual 
keyboard.
 
  New Apps

Files is a new default application in Plasma Active. It is a file manager, 
but, unlike most others, it isn't based on folders; rather users can search 
for documents by file type, creation time and semantic information such as 
Tags. Files does not use the file system directly; it organizes documents with 
Nepomuk, Plasma Active's underlying semantic engine.
Okular Active is Plasma Active's new Ebook Reader. Okular Active is built on 
the technology which also drives the desktop version of the popular Document 
Viewer, and is optimized for reading documents on a touch device. Okular 
Active supports a wide range of file formats, such as PDF, EPub, Open 
Document, and many others.
Through Plasma Active's Add Ons, thousands of ebooks are available for free, 
with paid applications and content coming soon.

  Champions: Kontact and Calligra

With Calligra Active and Kontact Touch, Plasma Active delivers scalable and 
proven applications for office and groupware tasks, with a focus on 
interoperability. Kontact Touch supports many groupware solutions, and brings 
calendaring, email, contact management among other features. Calligra Active 
has excellent support for most common office file formats such as OpenDocument 
and Microsoft's .doc, .docx, .xls and .xlsx.
The KDE developers have put a lot of effort into improving the performance of 
the user experience, its applications and underlying libraries. These 
improvements bring a noticeably snappier and more visually coherent user 
interface, and make using Plasma Active a more enjoyable experience compared 
to previous versions.
 
  Plasma Active runs on Mer

Mer is the leading openly developed Linux-based OS for mobile devices. It is 
based on work from the MeeGo Project. With the size of the Core OS reduced to 
the bare essentials, Mer delivers performance. It is also a fully open 
development project, and thus supports fundamental Plasma Active design 
principles—openness, user freedom.
Improved Text Input
Thanks to a new virtual keyboard based on Maliit, the input method used on 
devices such as Nokia's N9, Plasma Active Three improves ease of text input. 
The new virtual keyboard is faster and more convenient to use and offers great 
flexibility for system integrators.

  Roadmap: More Apps, Qt5 and File Synchronization

In future releases, users can expect support for a wider range of devices, 
easier synchronization of data across devices, an improved user experience 
through the use of Qt5 and KDE Frameworks 5, and more applications for popular 
uses. 
The KDE team is currently working to bring a Plasma Active-based tablet to the 
market to demonstrate its capabilities fully and offer users a fresh and more 
open alternative to existing mobile operating systems.

  About Plasma Active

Plasma Active is openly developed Free software. Its reference implementation 
builds on the Mer operating system and runs on a number of devices, including 
popular x86-based tablet computers and ARM-based hardware such as the Archos 
G9 series. Plasma Active can be used as a base for creating custom user 
experiences, and for a variety of purposes on existing and emerging touch-
enabled devices. Participation in Plasma Active is welcomed, either through 
individual contributions or by joining the Make * Play * Live partner network 
as an official support or distribution partner.

Web version at: http://kde.org/announcements/plasma-active-three/
See also: http://plasma-active.org

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Re: release sunday evening

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, October 12, 2012 15:58:33 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 12.10.2012 15:39, Marco Martin wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > since now we had plenty of time to pound on relase candidates, i propose
> > to
> > have the final image asap, to have everything ready for sunday evening.
> > 
> > with official announcement on monday morning at latest.
> 
> That schedule sounds good!
> I hope Calligra Active will be blacklisted in it, since by now the
> homsecreen is almost completely useless and Shantanu himself suggested to
> blacklist it. Other than that and the Okular Active crash (I had it crash
> on Wetab as well a few times, but it seems rather rare to me), I think
> we're ready for release by now as well.

Grmblz. You said it'd be OK if it wasn't blacklisted, now you're coming back 
on that? This revising of earlier made decisions / agreement a really good way 
to delay the release until forever. :(

I'm clearly for putting that on the "minor issue we can fit later" list.
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Re: release sunday evening

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, October 12, 2012 15:39:14 Marco Martin wrote:
> since now we had plenty of time to pound on relase candidates,
> i propose to have the final image asap, to have everything ready for sunday 
> evening.
> 
> with official announcement on monday morning at latest.

I will do the PR tricks if nobody objects with very good reasons (and people 
agree to them).
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Re: wetab install

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, October 06, 2012 17:05:21 Nicola De Filippo wrote:
> i suggest to add this line 
> "root@linux printf "\x9d\x2a\x44\x7b"|dd of=/dev/sdX bs=1 count=4 seek=440"
> to  the instructions to  install mer image on wetab.

For mere mortals, what does this do?

(It's always a good idea to note that, since not everybody in a multi-
disciplinary team has the same domain knowledge.)
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Re: release

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi,

On Friday, October 05, 2012 17:00:50 Marco Martin wrote:
> On Friday 05 October 2012, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > On Friday, October 5, 2012 15:41:16 Marco Martin wrote:
> > > shouldn't be that big
> >
> > ok :)

Also tags in those repos would be good. We can freeze the codebase today or 
tomorrow and then do that already if we're happy with the result so far.

> > my next question is: based on our marketing wordsmithing (anding othering
> > wordings ending withing 'ing'ing ;) what will our "3 important messages"
> > be
> > that we flog in our blogs and elsewhere?
> >
> > shall we start a suggestions list and then pick from them?
> >
> > here's my first nomination:
> > 
> > * new apps -> reader, file browser, ?
> 
> apps += addons store
> 
> second nomination:
> * incremental improvements: better multitouch support, better keyboard

I'd put better keyboard as its own points, that makes:

* new apps (reader, file browser, add ons)
* incremental improvements
* better keyboard

> (btw, this iirc is the first release based on mer, maybe should be
> mentioned  as well)

I've put it in the About Plasma Active section in the announcement, it names 
Mer as a reference implementation.

Otherwise, getting the material ready on sunday and then sending it out on 
monday sounds good to me. I've some time tomorrow I can spend on making last 
bits and pieces working, among which putting up the  text on 
www.kde.org/announcements, and fixing up p-a.org for release.

Cheers,
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Re: marked up webwords for PA3

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, October 04, 2012 14:54:40 Carl Symons wrote:
> attached. With track changes turned on.

Very good, thanks a lot!

> The announcement text has also been reviewed and edited.
> https://promo.notes.kde.org/84

I can put it on the website, Marco, Ivan, are your latest changes online?
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Re: Release candidate image

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:09:26 Lamarque V. Souza wrote:
> > http://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-
> > exopc/tablet/mer/stable/
> 
>  
>   That directory is empty. Is the image still being built?

It works for me, also the image works fine. (Didn't notice anything strange 
after playing with it for a few minutes. Will play a bit more. :))
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2nd draft Plasma Active 3 announcement

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi all,

I've edited a second version of the Plasma Active Three announcement with all 
your feedback incorporated, it's attached and up for improvements on:

https://promo.notes.kde.org/84

Cheers,
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http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9Plasma Active 3 Improves Performance, Brings New Apps

KDE has released the 3rd stable version of Plasma Active, KDE's device-independent user experience. Plasma Active user interface is touch-friendly and works well across a range of devices, such as tablet computers. Its activity-driven workflows enable the user to organize and consume digital assets more naturally.
Plasma Active Three noticably improves the user experiences with its improved and expanded set of apps, improved performance and a new virtual keyboard.

New Apps: Files, Reader, Microblog

Files is a new application in the default set of Plasma Active's applications. Files is a file manager, which is not based on folders, but allows accessing and searching your documents by file type, creation time and semantic information such as Tags. Files does not use the file system directly, but employs Nepomuk, Plasma Active's underlying semantic engine to organize documents.

Okular Active is Plasma Active's new Ebook Reader. Okular Active is built on the technology which also drives the desktop version of the popular Document viewer, and is optimized for reading documents. Okular Active supports a wide range of file formats, such as PDF, EPub, Open Document, and many others.

Through Plasma Active's Add-Ons, thousands of ebooks are available for free, with for-pay applications and content upcoming.

The new Microblog app offers an easy and intuitive way for users to keep tabs on social networks such as Twitter and Identi.ca.

Champions: Kontact and Calligra

With Calligra Active and Kontact Touch, Plasma Active delivers scalable and proven applications for office and groupware tasks, which focus on interoperability. Kontact Touch supports a wide number of groupware solutions, while Calligra Active brings excellent support for viewing office file formats such as OpenDocument and Microsoft's .doc and .docx families. To the user, Kontact Touch brings calendaring, emails, contacts among other features. Calligra sports wordprocessor, spreadsheet, presentations and a number of other applications geared towards professional, but also recreative use.


The KDE developers have also been putting a lot of effort into improving performance of the user experience, its applications and underlying libraries. These improvements bring a noticably snappier and more visually coherent user interface and make using Plasma Active a more enjoyable experience.

Improved Text Input

Thanks to a new virtual keyboard based on Maliit, the input method also used on devices such as Nokia's N9, Plasma Active Three improves ease of text input. The new virtual keyboard is faster and more convenient to use and offers great flexibility for system integrators.


Roadmap: More Apps, Qt5 and File Synchronization

In the following releases, the user may expect support for a wider range of devices, easier synchronization of data across devices, an improved user experience through the use of Qt5 and KDE Frameworks 5 and a more diverse set of applications to cover popular use cases.
The KDE team is currently working on bringing a Plasma Active-based tablet to the market which shows its capabilities and offers users a fresh and more open alternative to existing mobile operating systems.




Plasma Active is Free software and openly developed. Plasma Active's reference implementation builds on the Mer operating system and runs on a number of devices, including popular x86-based tablet computers and ARM-based hardware such as the Archos G9 series. Plasma Active can be used as a base for creating custom user experiences, as well as as multi-purpose user experience for emerging devices.
Participation in Plasma Active is welcomed, either through individual contributions or by joining the Make * Play * Live partner network as official support or distribution partner.
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Re: Kontact Touch with separate IMAP server for outgoing mail?

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Oliver,

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 22:56:39 Oliver Sander wrote:
> I have installed PA (with the open-slx 126 image) on my old WeTab 3G.
> While many things work very nicely, I have encountered the following
> problem:  I tried to set up the mail client to communicate with a t-mobile
> imap account.  The automatic setup found the account directly, and
> reading emails was very easy.  However I have not been able to send
> emails.  Upon trying I get a little notification widget saying 'mail could
> not be added to the waiting queue' (or something like that -- the actual
> text is German).
> I suspect that the reason may be that t-mobile uses different imap-servers
> for incoming and outgoing mail.  However in the Kontact Touch account
> settings I see only one server.  Is there a way to configure the program
> to send mail via a separate second server?  With the gui or by editing
> some config file?  Your help is much appreciated.

There is, in fact you cannot send email through an IMAP server, you need an 
SMTP server. You can set this up in Kontact Touch, just like in Desktop 
Kontact. Look for Account for Sending Mail. (I don't have Kontact Touch handy 
right now, so can't give detailed instructions.)

If you've got further questions, there's the KDE PIM mailinglist where you can 
find support for Kontact and Kontact Touch specifically. You can reach it at  
kdepim-us...@kde.org.

Cheers,
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Re: Help me get Active on my Android Tablet!

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hey Jason,

On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:37:34 Jason H wrote:
> Well the Mali-400 is very highly regarded. It's ain the Salaxy SIII, it has
> opensource drivers too, but they don't seem complete yet. There are binary
> ones though. The Mali-400 is OpenGL ES 1.1 & 2.0, OpenVG 1.1 compliant.
> http://www.malideveloper.com/developer-resources/drivers/open-source-mali-g
> pus-linux-exadri2-and-x11-display-drivers.php gives me
> http://www.malideveloper.com/files/DX910-SW-99003-r3p1-01rel0.tgz
> ("Mali-400 GPU Linux EXA/DRI2 and X11 Display Drivers r3p1-01rel0")
> 
> I would be willing to ship the tablet to someone in the US, if that would
> help. Otherwise I could probably do the tests. My biggest challenge is
> going from android (I'm not an android or ARM person) to another OS.

The Mer people can probably be more helpful. Mer is the underlying OS we use 
in our reference stack.

You basically need three parts to have a working image: hardware adaption, OS 
and Plasma Active. OS and PA are readily available and usable with different 
devices. For a given device you'll need a hardware adaption, which you can 
assemble yourself, and then create an image using kickstart. 

I'm not an expert in this field, so better check with the Mer folks for 
starting points.

Cheers,
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Re: WAC Implementation

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 20:25:51 Sascha Manns wrote:
> afaik there are two possible ways to implement the WAC scriptengine.
> The first one goes through the WAC-Patch in kde-workspace. The other one is
> to  package git://anongit.kde.org/scratch/sebas/plasma-scriptengine-wac.
> 
> Which one is the preffered way? Or exists a completly new way?

The scriptengine is preferred, since you can package that separately. It's the 
same code as the patch, basically (actually was based on that patch).
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Re: Draft announcement text: please review

[Sebastian Kügler]

[Adding active@k.o to CC:]

On Friday, September 14, 2012 09:48:59 Carl Symons wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Sebastian Kügler  wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > 
> > I've had a go at an announcement text for PA3 coming week. Please have a
> > look over it before I'll hand it to the kde-promo spindoctors.

> Okay, I'm on the active list and apparently a spin doctor. So much for
> jumping the gun.
> 
> I've done some edits with track changes activated. If you want this in
> a different format, please let me know.

ODT is cool. I'll go over it another time on Monday (long train ride then back 
from Paris).

What would be good if Aaron, Marco and possibly others could check the overall 
messaging, and give an opinion. (That's why I've initially posted it only on 
the active list.

Thanks a lot for the initial review and fixing, Mr Spindoctor. :)

Cheers,
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