Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question...
Among other things, mail in a PST is probably no longer ON the Exchange server. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Henrik Wahlstedt Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:51 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Hi, And why would I like to backup desktop PST files instead of the Exchange server? Can someone tell me the benefits since I probably is missing something... //Henrik Living in a cetralized enviroment where everything that needs backup are servers, ex. Private/Common areas, Exchange etc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Rupp Sent: den 18 januari 2008 08:23 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... After some time of inactivity Outlook releases the lock to a PST. If you get too many locked PST files one solution could be to lower this value (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/222328) We use subfilebackup to reduce the amount of backed up data. Every time a user opens outlook the PST file is changed (it only gets a new timestamp). Subfile backup here reduced the amount of backed up data to about 10% HTH Thomas Rupp -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Elana Samuels Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2008 02:28 An: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Betreff: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... So how would you recommend to backup open PST files? Unfortunately in the SMB space, most desktops are running Outlook and the users typically leave their mail open at night. Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wanda Prather Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:26 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Agreed. I tell my customers NOT to install OFS unless they have a reason, and only on systems where they know what the reason is. It triggers a LOT of unncessary and pretty unintelligible VSS errors, and is usually doing nothing worthwhile. Look at your TSM daily reporter output on clients without OFS installed, check the missed file details. You'll find that 90% of the files that are missed are in the category of usual suspects. You may want to sit down with a Windows admin and get them to help you identify the missed files. Many will be ntuser.dat or ntuser.log files, or other parts of the user profile. You rarely need backups of these unless you are backing up desktops, and then the profiles are included in teh backup of System State. Most of the rest will be files that are clearly identifiable as DB parts belonging to apps like SQL or Oracle. OFS support does not necessarily give you good backups of a data base, because there is no interface with the DB journal/logs. So even if people THINK they are getting backups this way, you probably shouldn't count on using them - the appropriate solution for DB's is using a TDP client. Once you identify the missed files, you'll usually find there is nothing on the client that needs the OFS support - exception would be a locally developed application. But I still wouldn't count on OFS being the answer, until somebody explains to me how the app works and what kind of backups will give you appropriate restore and DR capability. (ANd then TEST to make sure the restored version is viable.) On 1/16/08, Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW, I don't think it has ever been installed on any of our 200 Windows systems we backup. FYI, installing either of these WILL REQUIRE a reboot since it installs a service/low-level driver. Zoltan Forray Virginia Commonwealth University Office of Technology Services University Computing Center e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 804-828-4807 Ben Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 01/16/2008 12:15 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Howdy, I recently switched jobs and now am managing TSM in a mostly Windows environment (instead of the Unix world where I am comfortable). A new challenge... anyways On the Windows TSM client, there is the option to install the Open file support and the Image Backup support. Does everyone install these? Does it depend on what kind of DR you might have to do on the windows host? Forgive my Windows ignorance, I've read the manuals and it looks like the upside is the ability to backup open files, but the downside I am seeing is that there seems to be a lot of errors with the way it interfaces with the Windows native VSS service. It also looks like
Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question...
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:51:19 +0100, Henrik Wahlstedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And why would I like to backup desktop PST files instead of the Exchange server? Can someone tell me the benefits since I probably is missing something... Say you've got a policy which says, oh, Compliance with statutory retention requirements is the responsibility of the individual correspondent. Keep the appropriate correspondence. Any speculation that this policy is promulgated with intent to make compliance difficult, loss and destruction common, and discovery expensive and incomplete, is discouraged. This might prompt (some) people to keep PST files of data they feel is subject to retention rules. Don't worry, you'll get strong support from management in your efforts to assure the recoverability of these data in the event of an emergency. - Allen S. Rout
Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question...
Thank you Thomas. We will try that out. Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Rupp Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:23 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... After some time of inactivity Outlook releases the lock to a PST. If you get too many locked PST files one solution could be to lower this value (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/222328) We use subfilebackup to reduce the amount of backed up data. Every time a user opens outlook the PST file is changed (it only gets a new timestamp). Subfile backup here reduced the amount of backed up data to about 10% HTH Thomas Rupp -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Elana Samuels Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2008 02:28 An: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Betreff: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... So how would you recommend to backup open PST files? Unfortunately in the SMB space, most desktops are running Outlook and the users typically leave their mail open at night. Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wanda Prather Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:26 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Agreed. I tell my customers NOT to install OFS unless they have a reason, and only on systems where they know what the reason is. It triggers a LOT of unncessary and pretty unintelligible VSS errors, and is usually doing nothing worthwhile. Look at your TSM daily reporter output on clients without OFS installed, check the missed file details. You'll find that 90% of the files that are missed are in the category of usual suspects. You may want to sit down with a Windows admin and get them to help you identify the missed files. Many will be ntuser.dat or ntuser.log files, or other parts of the user profile. You rarely need backups of these unless you are backing up desktops, and then the profiles are included in teh backup of System State. Most of the rest will be files that are clearly identifiable as DB parts belonging to apps like SQL or Oracle. OFS support does not necessarily give you good backups of a data base, because there is no interface with the DB journal/logs. So even if people THINK they are getting backups this way, you probably shouldn't count on using them - the appropriate solution for DB's is using a TDP client. Once you identify the missed files, you'll usually find there is nothing on the client that needs the OFS support - exception would be a locally developed application. But I still wouldn't count on OFS being the answer, until somebody explains to me how the app works and what kind of backups will give you appropriate restore and DR capability. (ANd then TEST to make sure the restored version is viable.) On 1/16/08, Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW, I don't think it has ever been installed on any of our 200 Windows systems we backup. FYI, installing either of these WILL REQUIRE a reboot since it installs a service/low-level driver. Zoltan Forray Virginia Commonwealth University Office of Technology Services University Computing Center e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 804-828-4807 Ben Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 01/16/2008 12:15 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Howdy, I recently switched jobs and now am managing TSM in a mostly Windows environment (instead of the Unix world where I am comfortable). A new challenge... anyways On the Windows TSM client, there is the option to install the Open file support and the Image Backup support. Does everyone install these? Does it depend on what kind of DR you might have to do on the windows host? Forgive my Windows ignorance, I've read the manuals and it looks like the upside is the ability to backup open files, but the downside I am seeing is that there seems to be a lot of errors with the way it interfaces with the Windows native VSS service. It also looks like if these are installed and you want to upgrade the TSM client, it requires a reboot of the Windows client to get it done. Nobody wants to reboot a production server to upgrade its backup software. So what is everyone's opinion?: - The Open file support is worth the hassle and should be installed on all TSM clients - The Open file support should be installed on certain systems (if so, what is your criteria). - The open file support is to much pain and should not be installed. Thanks, Ben The Blue Cross of Idaho Email Firewall Server made the following annotations:
Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question...
Thomas, What value are you using, and also what happens if a new email arrives during the backup of the PST file? Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Rupp Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:23 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... After some time of inactivity Outlook releases the lock to a PST. If you get too many locked PST files one solution could be to lower this value (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/222328) We use subfilebackup to reduce the amount of backed up data. Every time a user opens outlook the PST file is changed (it only gets a new timestamp). Subfile backup here reduced the amount of backed up data to about 10% HTH Thomas Rupp -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Elana Samuels Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2008 02:28 An: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Betreff: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... So how would you recommend to backup open PST files? Unfortunately in the SMB space, most desktops are running Outlook and the users typically leave their mail open at night. Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wanda Prather Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:26 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Agreed. I tell my customers NOT to install OFS unless they have a reason, and only on systems where they know what the reason is. It triggers a LOT of unncessary and pretty unintelligible VSS errors, and is usually doing nothing worthwhile. Look at your TSM daily reporter output on clients without OFS installed, check the missed file details. You'll find that 90% of the files that are missed are in the category of usual suspects. You may want to sit down with a Windows admin and get them to help you identify the missed files. Many will be ntuser.dat or ntuser.log files, or other parts of the user profile. You rarely need backups of these unless you are backing up desktops, and then the profiles are included in teh backup of System State. Most of the rest will be files that are clearly identifiable as DB parts belonging to apps like SQL or Oracle. OFS support does not necessarily give you good backups of a data base, because there is no interface with the DB journal/logs. So even if people THINK they are getting backups this way, you probably shouldn't count on using them - the appropriate solution for DB's is using a TDP client. Once you identify the missed files, you'll usually find there is nothing on the client that needs the OFS support - exception would be a locally developed application. But I still wouldn't count on OFS being the answer, until somebody explains to me how the app works and what kind of backups will give you appropriate restore and DR capability. (ANd then TEST to make sure the restored version is viable.) On 1/16/08, Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW, I don't think it has ever been installed on any of our 200 Windows systems we backup. FYI, installing either of these WILL REQUIRE a reboot since it installs a service/low-level driver. Zoltan Forray Virginia Commonwealth University Office of Technology Services University Computing Center e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 804-828-4807 Ben Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 01/16/2008 12:15 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Howdy, I recently switched jobs and now am managing TSM in a mostly Windows environment (instead of the Unix world where I am comfortable). A new challenge... anyways On the Windows TSM client, there is the option to install the Open file support and the Image Backup support. Does everyone install these? Does it depend on what kind of DR you might have to do on the windows host? Forgive my Windows ignorance, I've read the manuals and it looks like the upside is the ability to backup open files, but the downside I am seeing is that there seems to be a lot of errors with the way it interfaces with the Windows native VSS service. It also looks like if these are installed and you want to upgrade the TSM client, it requires a reboot of the Windows client to get it done. Nobody wants to reboot a production server to upgrade its backup software. So what is everyone's opinion?: - The Open file support is worth the hassle and should be installed on all TSM clients - The Open file support should be installed on certain systems (if so, what is your criteria). - The open file support is to much pain and should not be installed. Thanks, Ben The Blue Cross
Re: AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question...
Hi, And why would I like to backup desktop PST files instead of the Exchange server? Can someone tell me the benefits since I probably is missing something... //Henrik Living in a cetralized enviroment where everything that needs backup are servers, ex. Private/Common areas, Exchange etc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Rupp Sent: den 18 januari 2008 08:23 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] AW: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... After some time of inactivity Outlook releases the lock to a PST. If you get too many locked PST files one solution could be to lower this value (see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/222328) We use subfilebackup to reduce the amount of backed up data. Every time a user opens outlook the PST file is changed (it only gets a new timestamp). Subfile backup here reduced the amount of backed up data to about 10% HTH Thomas Rupp -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Elana Samuels Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Jänner 2008 02:28 An: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Betreff: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... So how would you recommend to backup open PST files? Unfortunately in the SMB space, most desktops are running Outlook and the users typically leave their mail open at night. Elana Samuels Tier 1 Data Solutions Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wanda Prather Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:26 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Agreed. I tell my customers NOT to install OFS unless they have a reason, and only on systems where they know what the reason is. It triggers a LOT of unncessary and pretty unintelligible VSS errors, and is usually doing nothing worthwhile. Look at your TSM daily reporter output on clients without OFS installed, check the missed file details. You'll find that 90% of the files that are missed are in the category of usual suspects. You may want to sit down with a Windows admin and get them to help you identify the missed files. Many will be ntuser.dat or ntuser.log files, or other parts of the user profile. You rarely need backups of these unless you are backing up desktops, and then the profiles are included in teh backup of System State. Most of the rest will be files that are clearly identifiable as DB parts belonging to apps like SQL or Oracle. OFS support does not necessarily give you good backups of a data base, because there is no interface with the DB journal/logs. So even if people THINK they are getting backups this way, you probably shouldn't count on using them - the appropriate solution for DB's is using a TDP client. Once you identify the missed files, you'll usually find there is nothing on the client that needs the OFS support - exception would be a locally developed application. But I still wouldn't count on OFS being the answer, until somebody explains to me how the app works and what kind of backups will give you appropriate restore and DR capability. (ANd then TEST to make sure the restored version is viable.) On 1/16/08, Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW, I don't think it has ever been installed on any of our 200 Windows systems we backup. FYI, installing either of these WILL REQUIRE a reboot since it installs a service/low-level driver. Zoltan Forray Virginia Commonwealth University Office of Technology Services University Computing Center e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: 804-828-4807 Ben Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 01/16/2008 12:15 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject [ADSM-L] Windows Client question... Howdy, I recently switched jobs and now am managing TSM in a mostly Windows environment (instead of the Unix world where I am comfortable). A new challenge... anyways On the Windows TSM client, there is the option to install the Open file support and the Image Backup support. Does everyone install these? Does it depend on what kind of DR you might have to do on the windows host? Forgive my Windows ignorance, I've read the manuals and it looks like the upside is the ability to backup open files, but the downside I am seeing is that there seems to be a lot of errors with the way it interfaces with the Windows native VSS service. It also looks like if these are installed and you want to upgrade the TSM client, it requires a reboot of the Windows client to get it done. Nobody wants to reboot a production server to upgrade its backup software. So what is everyone's opinion?: - The Open file support is worth the hassle and should be installed on all TSM clients - The Open file support should
