Re: Alleged LTO fragility
I don't know about LTO1, we have LTO2. They are fragile, but we have not had problems as others have described... I have dropped a few myself, and I can testify that a drop from as little as a foot can ruin an LTO2 cart. I have also dropped them from waist-height (about 3 feet) with no damage. The problem I have seen is that if the cart lands on the corner where the tape comes out, there is a thin point in the plastic where the leader pin slips in... this is a weak point that can bend which causes the cart to widen slightly at that point... but it's enough to prevent the cart from loading. If the damage is bad enough, the pin will fall out of its place. I have 7 or 8 carts (out of 5600) that have failed this way. Interestingly, I don't recall having any come back from the vault damaged... and we do not use the jewel cases, we just load the carts into red turtle cases for transport. Pretty nice cases, though... foam lined, they hold the carts pretty firmly. We can fit about 36 carts in one case. We usually ship 25-30 offsite each day. Robin Sharpe Berlex Labs Tab Trepagnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] AITRAM.COM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent by: ADSM: cc: Dist Stor Subject: Manager Alleged LTO fragility [EMAIL PROTECTED] .EDU 02/10/2006 12:51 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C.
Re: Alleged LTO fragility
I don't quite think an inch, but... 1. Why LTO-1? LTO3 is current vdersion. 2. The cases are somewhat fragile on older LTO1 tapes. I think originally the two plastic halves were not welded together. This led to cases where, when inserted in a drive they got stuck. Resaon is the leader pin would get pushed slightly back when halves of case slightly separated, and would not close back. I have had about 6-8 failures of this type, out of about 400 LTO1 tapes I have had. Only had one with an LTO2 tape. I understand that by early LTO2, the halves were welded and possibly continuing production of LTO1 tapes were also. 3. Also, what about your onsite tape handlers too! 4. I would suspect that in general LTO tapes are no more fragile that DLT, unless DLT uses more durable plastic or something. David B. Longo System Administrator Health First, Inc. 3300 Fiske Blvd. Rockledge, FL 32955-4305 PH 321.434.5536 Pager 321.634.8230 Fax:321.434.5509 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 12:51 PM This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C. ## This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. ##
Re: Alleged LTO fragility
We have had a small amount of problems with lto to from handling. An occasional bad tape. Operations on both sides weren't too bad, but the couriers were brutal. I don't think I have the link any more but IBM does have doc on tape handling procedures ... ship vertical, rather then horizontal, how long to allow to warm, etc ... Wanna buy some lto-1 drives and power supplies? (3584 canisters) ? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 01:39PM I don't quite think an inch, but... 1. Why LTO-1? LTO3 is current vdersion. 2. The cases are somewhat fragile on older LTO1 tapes. I think originally the two plastic halves were not welded together. This led to cases where, when inserted in a drive they got stuck. Resaon is the leader pin would get pushed slightly back when halves of case slightly separated, and would not close back. I have had about 6-8 failures of this type, out of about 400 LTO1 tapes I have had. Only had one with an LTO2 tape. I understand that by early LTO2, the halves were welded and possibly continuing production of LTO1 tapes were also. 3. Also, what about your onsite tape handlers too! 4. I would suspect that in general LTO tapes are no more fragile that DLT, unless DLT uses more durable plastic or something. David B. Longo System Administrator Health First, Inc. 3300 Fiske Blvd. Rockledge, FL 32955-4305 PH 321.434.5536 Pager 321.634.8230 Fax:321.434.5509 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 12:51 PM This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C. ## This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. ## - CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that the dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender by reply e-mail, delete this e-mail from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Receipt by anyone other than the named recipient(s) is not a waiver of any attorney-client, work product, or other applicable privilege. This message and all contents may be reviewed by authorized parties of the Catholic Health System other than those named in the message header. The contents of this message do not bind the Catholic Health System to any contract, position, or course of action unless the sender is specifically authorized to enter into contracts on behalf of the Catholic Health System. The contents of this message do not necessarily constitute an official representation of the Catholic Health System.
Re: Alleged LTO fragility
David, We currently have a Gen-1 3583 that would become our offsite library. Its online duties would be taken over by a Gen-3 3583. We like having two different libraries for online/offsite. Because LTO is currently online only, there is almost no onsite handling. The DLTs we've been sending offsite for the last five years have held up superbly. We put them in their plastic cases and then the courier gives them a 5-mile roller-coaster ride. We have NEVER had a DLT tape fail from that handling. In an ideal world, we would have the same success if we switched to LTO. Thanks. Tab ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 02/10/2006 12:39:05 PM: I don't quite think an inch, but... 1. Why LTO-1? LTO3 is current vdersion. 2. The cases are somewhat fragile on older LTO1 tapes. I think originally the two plastic halves were not welded together. This led to cases where, when inserted in a drive they got stuck. Resaon is the leader pin would get pushed slightly back when halves of case slightly separated, and would not close back. I have had about 6-8 failures of this type, out of about 400 LTO1 tapes I have had. Only had one with an LTO2 tape. I understand that by early LTO2, the halves were welded and possibly continuing production of LTO1 tapes were also. 3. Also, what about your onsite tape handlers too! 4. I would suspect that in general LTO tapes are no more fragile that DLT, unless DLT uses more durable plastic or something. David B. Longo System Administrator Health First, Inc. 3300 Fiske Blvd. Rockledge, FL 32955-4305 PH 321.434.5536 Pager 321.634.8230 Fax:321.434.5509 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 12:51 PM This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C. ## This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. ##
Re: Alleged LTO fragility
We did LTO-1 for three years and are now 18 months into mixed LTO-1 and LTO-2. I've got two tapes that have been damaged by dropping - both about 4 feet. As mentioned in one of the other notes, the cases seperated slightly and the pin is out of alignment. I could probably fix them and put them in service, but I figure it's not worth the risk. We do put the tapes back into the plastic boxes when they're out of the library, and ship the tapes vertically (mostly). Our internal tape courier is an ex-mainframe operator and not especially noted for gentleness. But we've had no other tape failures in the past 4+ years, for what it's worth. IIRC, the 3590 high-density cart was especially listed as fragile by IBM because if dropped flat, the tape puck could bottom-out in the cart with potential damage to a clock track or sync track on the edge of the tape. Tape is tape; take a little care in packing, and the gorillas won't be able to damage it without more work than they'll want to do. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tab Trepagnier Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:51 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Alleged LTO fragility This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance upon this message. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
Re: Alleged LTO fragility
I thnik if you used the plastic cases (the Jewel cases) for the LTO tapes, should be no problem. David Longo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 2:33 PM David, We currently have a Gen-1 3583 that would become our offsite library. Its online duties would be taken over by a Gen-3 3583. We like having two different libraries for online/offsite. Because LTO is currently online only, there is almost no onsite handling. The DLTs we've been sending offsite for the last five years have held up superbly. We put them in their plastic cases and then the courier gives them a 5-mile roller-coaster ride. We have NEVER had a DLT tape fail from that handling. In an ideal world, we would have the same success if we switched to LTO. Thanks. Tab ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 02/10/2006 12:39:05 PM: I don't quite think an inch, but... 1. Why LTO-1? LTO3 is current vdersion. 2. The cases are somewhat fragile on older LTO1 tapes. I think originally the two plastic halves were not welded together. This led to cases where, when inserted in a drive they got stuck. Resaon is the leader pin would get pushed slightly back when halves of case slightly separated, and would not close back. I have had about 6-8 failures of this type, out of about 400 LTO1 tapes I have had. Only had one with an LTO2 tape. I understand that by early LTO2, the halves were welded and possibly continuing production of LTO1 tapes were also. 3. Also, what about your onsite tape handlers too! 4. I would suspect that in general LTO tapes are no more fragile that DLT, unless DLT uses more durable plastic or something. David B. Longo System Administrator Health First, Inc. 3300 Fiske Blvd. Rockledge, FL 32955-4305 PH 321.434.5536 Pager 321.634.8230 Fax:321.434.5509 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/10/06 12:51 PM This is a tape media question. We are considering moving from DLT8000 to LTO-1 for offsite tape storage. Our local IBM guys told us that LTO tapes should not be dropped more than 1/2 inch or they risk being damaged. If you've ever watched a vault vendor handling tapes, you know that 1/2 is pretty optimistic. So, is that true? Would our offsite data be at risk if our vault vendor dropped an LTO cartridge a whole inch? Thanks. Tab Trepagnier TSM Administrator Laitram, L.L.C. ## This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. ## ## This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. ##
