Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
You are correct. Another 2 cents: long-term archive does not only consist of the sole problem to keep the data safe for a long period of time. Some other points are often overlooked, here only some of them: - availabilty of system which the data can be restored on (if you backed up your unix file 6 year ago with TSM and moved later to NT, you will not be able to retrieve your data unless you keep a working unix machine alive, even worse if you moved to veritas or Tivoli stopped TSM development in the meantime..) - availability of programs which can display / operate on data or are you able today with the documentation you wrote 10 years ago with an XY editor? Evene with text files - moved from ebdic to ascii? How about databases and so-called databases? - availability of personal who knows the data and how to use it. Even if this had been documented - will you find the documentation? - tracking the archive Even if you still have the data, would you be able the correct data to be restored 10 years ago? - access rights: will you know in ten years who has the acces to the restore? If protected by passord - will this be available? etc. etc. To summarize: you have to think not only about archiving the data, but about archiving of the whole working environment. regards Juraj Salak -Original Message- From: Wayne T. Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 3:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage On 12 Feb 2002 at 21:14, Kelly Lipp wrote, in part: I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. I agree that long term storage is an interesting problem, but I don't see reclamation (alone) as solving it. It may not be efficient, but it isn't sufficient! ;-) For example, I believe I put my current drives into production about 2 years ago. 3% (about 60) of my tapes are full and haven't been mounted since 2000! Reclamation has caused most data to move, but not all. If one believes long term storage is important and moving data around important to achieving success, then reclamation is not sufficient. *SM doesn't automate mandated movement of data on it's storage, but it enables it, since it is trivial to write SQL to find old tapes (so one might run MOVE DATA on them). Moving data from old tapes allows one to rebuild from another (hopefully still good) copy, should a failure occur. cheers, wayne Wayne T. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ADSM Technical Coordinator - UNET University of Maine System
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Kelly, How often should I refresh my ### Terabytes of longterm storage? Jeff -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated. ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error destroy it immediately. **
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Jeff and Kelly ... Don't look to the Tivoli software to solve all the issues involved in long-term data storage. Hardware obsolescence must be considered, as well as media life, and having redundant copies, at multiple locations, such as would be recommended in a real DR plan. Kelly, mixing archive files and backup files, and using reclamation, doesn't quite give me that warm, fuzzy feeling I'd like to have. Archive files are usually the data you absolutely need to protect for regulatory, legal, scientific, or historical reasons! And, if this data is really so valuable, doesn't it follow that it deserves more attention? A separate procedure to exercise (read/clean/retension) archive media, refresh the media based on some threshold of read errors, and, ultimately, media/format conversion should be employed, regardless of the volume of data ... Tis a conundrum ! -Original Message- From: Jeff Bach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Kelly, How often should I refresh my ### Terabytes of longterm storage? Jeff -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated. ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error destroy it immediately. ** *** This message and any attachments is solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosure, copying, use, or distribution of the information included in this message is prohibited -- please immediately and permanently delete this message.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
You can 'exercise' the archive data all you want, but the original request was using backupsets, and these you don't 'exercise' with reclamation or even move data commands. Like that guy on the Info-mercials says ... Set it and forget it!. With archiveing vs. backupsets, you can always move the archive data to another storage pool with more up-to-date equipement. A backupset is here to stay. No way to move it, and not even a way to re-build it. That 'snapshot' of the node/filespace is gone the next time a backup runs against it. Maybe sending the backupset to a FILE device class, then turning around and ARCHIVING those file back into TSM. Now it's an ARCHIVE object you can play around with. Just ramblingit's been a long week today! Bill Boyer DSS, Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dmochowski, Ray Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Jeff and Kelly ... Don't look to the Tivoli software to solve all the issues involved in long-term data storage. Hardware obsolescence must be considered, as well as media life, and having redundant copies, at multiple locations, such as would be recommended in a real DR plan. Kelly, mixing archive files and backup files, and using reclamation, doesn't quite give me that warm, fuzzy feeling I'd like to have. Archive files are usually the data you absolutely need to protect for regulatory, legal, scientific, or historical reasons! And, if this data is really so valuable, doesn't it follow that it deserves more attention? A separate procedure to exercise (read/clean/retension) archive media, refresh the media based on some threshold of read errors, and, ultimately, media/format conversion should be employed, regardless of the volume of data ... Tis a conundrum ! -Original Message- From: Jeff Bach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Kelly, How often should I refresh my ### Terabytes of longterm storage? Jeff -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated. ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error destroy it immediately. ** *** This message and any attachments is solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Well, As as an OS390 person, you have the opportunity to :- put your backupset to a file device dfhsm migrate it off to tape exercise your dfhsm tape as often as you want through recycle I knew mainframes still had some advantages over that small kit ps. I am going home now, to miss all the comments from advocates of the small stuff. Bill Boyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/13/2002 05:12:41 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: John Naylor/HAV/SSE) Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage You can 'exercise' the archive data all you want, but the original request was using backupsets, and these you don't 'exercise' with reclamation or even move data commands. Like that guy on the Info-mercials says ... Set it and forget it!. With archiveing vs. backupsets, you can always move the archive data to another storage pool with more up-to-date equipement. A backupset is here to stay. No way to move it, and not even a way to re-build it. That 'snapshot' of the node/filespace is gone the next time a backup runs against it. Maybe sending the backupset to a FILE device class, then turning around and ARCHIVING those file back into TSM. Now it's an ARCHIVE object you can play around with. Just ramblingit's been a long week today! Bill Boyer DSS, Inc. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dmochowski, Ray Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Jeff and Kelly ... Don't look to the Tivoli software to solve all the issues involved in long-term data storage. Hardware obsolescence must be considered, as well as media life, and having redundant copies, at multiple locations, such as would be recommended in a real DR plan. Kelly, mixing archive files and backup files, and using reclamation, doesn't quite give me that warm, fuzzy feeling I'd like to have. Archive files are usually the data you absolutely need to protect for regulatory, legal, scientific, or historical reasons! And, if this data is really so valuable, doesn't it follow that it deserves more attention? A separate procedure to exercise (read/clean/retension) archive media, refresh the media based on some threshold of read errors, and, ultimately, media/format conversion should be employed, regardless of the volume of data ... Tis a conundrum ! -Original Message- From: Jeff Bach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Kelly, How often should I refresh my ### Terabytes of longterm storage? Jeff -Original Message- From: Kelly Lipp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Mike, if I were going to do this I'd use DLT based upon the manufacturer's propa\ documentation. OTOH, here's what I've done: 1) set up archive copygroups with retentions of 1 year through 7 years (seven groups) all pointed to the same storage pool chain (disk and tape). 2) treat the storage just like everything else -- one copy on-site, and a copy pool for off-site. I run reclaims as required and otherwise exercise the LTO media once or twice a month. If I were to do the backup set process, I'd make bloody sure that the owner of the data had the tapes AND HAD SIGNED FOR THEM so if they got lost or damaged I wouldn't be in the loop. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Some people have worried that their 7-year archive tapes might only have a 5-year shelf life. It seems to me that reclamation would, over the years, do enough tape-to-tape copies to detect when a tape was going bad. Then you would presumably move data off the bad tape, discard it, and your archive would be safe on a good tape. But with backupsets, there's no reclamation, so this wouldn't happen. A small concern IMHO. I just wanted to muddy the waters a bit. ;-} Mr. Lindsay Morris CEO Applied System Design www.servergraph.com 859-253-8000 ofc 425-988-8478 fax -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Haskins, Mike Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Tom, your last comment is actually the reason I was considering backup sets as a top contender for long term storage. Generate a backup set, the owner signs for the tapes, and they're gone -- reserving library space and volume ranges for data that is actively used or needed for DR. The inability to move a backup set to a new generation of media, as Bill noted, is something I hadn't considered! Mike Haskins Agway, Inc -Original Message- From: Kauffman, Tom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Mike, if I were going to do this I'd use DLT based upon the manufacturer's propa\ documentation. OTOH, here's what I've done: 1) set up archive copygroups with retentions of 1 year through 7 years (seven groups) all pointed to the same storage pool chain (disk and tape). 2) treat the storage just like everything else -- one copy on-site, and a copy pool for off-site. I run reclaims as required and otherwise exercise the LTO media once or twice a month. If I were to do the backup set process, I'd make bloody sure that the owner of the data had the tapes AND HAD SIGNED FOR THEM so if they got lost or damaged I wouldn't be in the loop. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Tom, your last comment is actually the reason I was considering backup sets as a top contender for long term storage. Generate a backup set, the owner signs for the tapes, and they're gone -- reserving library space and volume ranges for data that is actively used or needed for DR. The inability to move a backup set to a new generation of media, as Bill noted, is something I hadn't considered! Mike Haskins Agway, Inc -Original Message- From: Kauffman, Tom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Mike, if I were going to do this I'd use DLT based upon the manufacturer's propa\ documentation. OTOH, here's what I've done: 1) set up archive copygroups with retentions of 1 year through 7 years (seven groups) all pointed to the same storage pool chain (disk and tape). 2) treat the storage just like everything else -- one copy on-site, and a copy pool for off-site. I run reclaims as required and otherwise exercise the LTO media once or twice a month. If I were to do the backup set process, I'd make bloody sure that the owner of the data had the tapes AND HAD SIGNED FOR THEM so if they got lost or damaged I wouldn't be in the loop. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
Just some thoughts: Generating backupsets requires no client resources. Backupset currently only cover filesystems, not TDP data. Backupset only covers active data. Backupset tapes are tracked in volhistory. (along with the command that created it.) Backupset tapes are one-per-node. Backupset tapes can only be refreshed by restoring to a node, backing-up, and re-generating. Exporting a node requires no client resources. Export node does support TDP data. Export node can do active, inactive, backup, archive or all. Export tapes are tracked in volhistory. (along with the command that created it.) Export tapes can be more than one node. Export tapes can only be refreshed by importing, and re-exporting. (no client activity) Export tapes can be dry-run imported with preview=yes. Export tapes can be imported across O/S platforms, and thus may be more portable. Archiving requires client resources (cpu, network, etc.) Archiving only covers active data. Most TDP data is type=backup. Since 7 year archives will not expire very often, the only ways to refresh them are: 1) Mix them with backup data (as someone has mentioned.) 2) Use Copypools for them and re-copy them periodically. 3) Retrieve and re-archive them. 4) Use move data periodically on all the tape volumes. Since technology changes much faster than 7 years, one assumes that any periodic migration process will result in copying old media (say, DLT) to new media (say, LTO.) Hopefully, this applies to version upgrades of TSM as well. (Companies that offer migration services will be happy to do this for you!) Maybe some future TSM utility/command will support export/backupset duplication, (I suppose a unix dd command would work if the source and destination both fit on one physical tape.) As has been pointed out serveral times, the real question is can you turn that 7 year-old data into information; that is, will your applications still run on Windows2007 or AIX 6 and did you keep that old Pentium box to run them on? (I bet you will be happy all your database data was saved as flat CSV files, including the meta information to process them, and that you kept that DICOM display utility for that old medical image data) Richard Cowen Senior Technical Specialist CNT
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
I know the way things get lost around here (usually a process of the third person to get the job isn't fully briefed by the second person who is now moving to other responsibilities). I'd rather keep the data in my library. I've got 6 LTO tapes in varying stages of filling on-site and 4 off-site. Total data is about 900 GB. Since my library holds 660 tapes and we only own 380 right now I've no local storage problem. My off-site is the corporate hanger at the airport, and it's near-infinitely expandable (we used to have over 400 DLT tapes off-site, now we have 90+ LTO tapes off-site) . . . But the non-portability is a real killer as well. There's always my old standby - get the app developer to build unloads that generate ASCII comma or colon delimited data and burn the result to CD. Having been here when we moved from Burroughs B3700 to Honeywell DPS-8 to IBM 4300 to IBM SP frame, and Forte-II to DM-IV to IMS to Oracle, it's the ONLY way I'll guarantee the data can be accessed in seven years, no matter what we created it with. We've still got historical data on 3480 cart in the form of FDR/ABR backups of IMS databases on 3380 disk drives. If someone really wants the data bad enough, I forced the issue enough that we also have the source code to the programs on the same tapes . . . but I won't be any part of the project to recover the data! Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Tom, your last comment is actually the reason I was considering backup sets as a top contender for long term storage. Generate a backup set, the owner signs for the tapes, and they're gone -- reserving library space and volume ranges for data that is actively used or needed for DR. The inability to move a backup set to a new generation of media, as Bill noted, is something I hadn't considered! Mike Haskins Agway, Inc -Original Message- From: Kauffman, Tom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Mike, if I were going to do this I'd use DLT based upon the manufacturer's propa\ documentation. OTOH, here's what I've done: 1) set up archive copygroups with retentions of 1 year through 7 years (seven groups) all pointed to the same storage pool chain (disk and tape). 2) treat the storage just like everything else -- one copy on-site, and a copy pool for off-site. I run reclaims as required and otherwise exercise the LTO media once or twice a month. If I were to do the backup set process, I'd make bloody sure that the owner of the data had the tapes AND HAD SIGNED FOR THEM so if they got lost or damaged I wouldn't be in the loop. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage
I believe the key to long term storage is the notion of data refreshment on the tapes. With reclamation, we get that. If archive data is mixed with backup data we get reclamation due to backup retention policies being much less (typically) than archive. Some will argue that moving this data around isn't efficient, but if ensuring that data can be read is the goal, moving it around occasionally is important. Kelly J. Lipp Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc. PO Box 51313 Colorado Springs, CO 80949 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.storsol.com or www.storserver.com (719)531-5926 Fax: (240)539-7175 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Seay, Paul Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage I would not put something I wanted to keep that long on doggies little toy or ate my momma. You get the picture. I do not think DLT and 8mm are reliable enough to be comfortable that they will be able to be restored that far out. This is a nasty problem for all of us. LTO is too new to bet on and we are limited by what we can do. In the mainframe world you archive the stuff and just keep some tape drives around. Open is different. The issue is the vendors have not stepped up to the fact that open has longterm data now, just like a mainframe. -Original Message- From: Haskins, Mike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Backup Sets for Long Term Storage Our TSM server has a 3494 library with 3590 tape drives. Now faced with meeting long term storage requirements (7+ years), I am looking at generating backup sets to accomplish this. Since backup sets can be used for stand-alone restores from a backup-archive client, I am thinking that a different media type would be better than 3590. There's not much chance that many of my nodes could have access to a 3590 drive. DLT or 8mm seem more appropriate. Any experiences or opinions would be appreciated.
