Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Darin Steffl 
Wouldn't you be better off selling one plan like Google? A gig for $70. Or
at least get rid of the $50 plan. Do 50 Meg for $60 and gig for $70. That
way it's almost a no brainer to go with the gig. 20x more speed for only
$10 more!!!

I bet your profit would be higher overall, even with slightly fewer
customers. I don't think it's about the highest market share, but rather
highest profit. We've been working on raising our ARPU for the wisp and
we're over $82 right now. Yes we lose a handful of customers from price
increases but we overall make more money since most don't cancel. Our
customer count has increased every month since we started in 2012. Back
then our arpu was about $54 and it's increased to $82 now. I've talked to
wisps that are even higher in the triple digits.

Any business not raising their prices when demand is this strong is leaving
money on the table. This is totally dependent on competition I understand.
For us, we try to be the most reliable with the best customer service. This
allows us to sell a premium priced service compared to dsl and other wisps.
Word of mouth from our existing customers drives our sales.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 7:35 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

>
>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> So you’re selling 25M of bandwidth and 975M of bragging rights?
>
>
> Yep, exactly.   And that’s all it is really.
>
>
> Gamers probably use the gig speed for awhile whenever a new gigantic game
> comes out.  But that’s not like video streaming which I swear some people
> do 24x7.
>
>
> Once in a blue moon somebody manages to peg it out long enough to show up
> on a 5 minute average.
>
> I found this interesting in that statistics:
>
> We offer 100Mb, 250Mb and GigE plans at $49.95, $59.95, and $79.95
>
> Of those plans 41% take the 100Mb plan, 38% select 250Mb, and 20% take the
> Gigabit plan.
>
> The  typical distribution would be that the middle plan having the highest
> percentage - and it doesn't.   To me that says that customers are seeing
> value and plenty of speed at 100Mb.   A few guy who need bragging rights
> take the Gigabit plan.   We thank them for the contribution to the
> retirement fund.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh 


> On Jul 15, 2020, at 6:55 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> So you’re selling 25M of bandwidth and 975M of bragging rights?

Yep, exactly.   And that’s all it is really.

>  
> Gamers probably use the gig speed for awhile whenever a new gigantic game 
> comes out.  But that’s not like video streaming which I swear some people do 
> 24x7.


Once in a blue moon somebody manages to peg it out long enough to show up on a 
5 minute average.

I found this interesting in that statistics:

We offer 100Mb, 250Mb and GigE plans at $49.95, $59.95, and $79.95

Of those plans 41% take the 100Mb plan, 38% select 250Mb, and 20% take the 
Gigabit plan.

The  typical distribution would be that the middle plan having the highest 
percentage - and it doesn't.   To me that says that customers are seeing value 
and plenty of speed at 100Mb.   A few guy who need bragging rights take the 
Gigabit plan.   We thank them for the contribution to the retirement fund.

Mark

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
If it's not tilted, that sounds like a squirrel and bird platform.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 5:18 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some snow on that 
without a heater...

On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where 
> speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the 
> home Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if 
> they don’t get what they’re paying for?
> 
> Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a 
> cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?
> 
> And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the 
> early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s 
> nobody else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who 
> hasn’t had a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that 
> sound like every subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max 
> modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say the WISP was 
> fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.
> 
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
> 
> The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user 
> terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a 
> different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never 
> precise about these things.
> 
> I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put the 
> same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or else 
> they would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps per 
> satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a given 
> geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but the 
> smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and then 
> of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't use 
> the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area will 
> each use their own non-interfering chunk.
> 
> I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles 
> I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're 
> solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not 
> going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.
> 
> On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> 
> Doing some math:
> 
> 40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally
> loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water.
> I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's
> say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
> time, around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for
> cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water
> and ground obstructions.
> 
> So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite,
> assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.
> 
> The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
> capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at
> maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is
> fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation.
> 20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using
> it simultaneously.
> 
> But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those
> about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
> mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
> reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
> satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more
> realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.
> 
> Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days,
> considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers
> using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume
> that from that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans
> without too much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing,
> over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and
> decide to reduce.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince  > wrote:
> 
> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of
> the
> ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink
> satellites is
> expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.
> 
> That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at
> supporting about
> half a

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
So you’re selling 25M of bandwidth and 975M of bragging rights?

 

Gamers probably use the gig speed for awhile whenever a new gigantic game comes 
out.  But that’s not like video streaming which I swear some people do 24x7.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 5:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

On fiber it’s actually pretty easy to do (Gigabit for <$90) - because people 
don’t use it any harder than they use a 25/3 connection.   

 

Mark





On Jul 15, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

 

If you can sell gigabit for $50 (or even $90), don’t come to my area please.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

You're never going to see starlink in your area if you're offering a gig. 

 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:44 PM Craig Schmaderer mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com> > wrote:

Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had 
to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan 
doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried. 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.

So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.  

 

From: dave 

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

Just install 40k of micropops :)




On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones that 
popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to support 
~~ 40,000 subscribers. 

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about half a 
million subscribers (~~ 533,000). 

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites. 

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19 

 &_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Robert Andrews 
I thought it would be dome-ish too, but the pictures show pretty clearly 
flat and one of them it's not tilted at all.  It would likely choose 
straight up for the shortest path length if it can.   But yeah they 
probably can watch for signal strength and do an automated tilt to 
vertical as part of a realign..Or not...


On 07/15/2020 03:30 PM, castarritt . wrote:

Maybe they can use the motorized gimbal to shake off snow.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:24 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


It is tilted, and I don't think it's flat. It's more like a dome.


bp


On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some
snow
 > on that without a heater...
 >
 > On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 >> So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective,
where
 >> speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the
 >> home Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if
 >> they don’t get what they’re paying for?
 >>
 >> Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a
 >> cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?
 >>
 >> And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or
5G, the
 >> early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s
 >> nobody else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who
 >> hasn’t had a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that
 >> sound like every subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max
 >> modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say the WISP was
 >> fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.
 >>
 >> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
 >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
 >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
 >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
 >>
 >> The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user
 >> terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a
 >> different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never
 >> precise about these things.
 >>
 >> I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put
 >> the same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or
 >> else they would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps
 >> per satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a
 >> given geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be,
but
 >> the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be,
and
 >> then of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite
won't
 >> use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain
area
 >> will each use their own non-interfering chunk.
 >>
 >> I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the
articles
 >> I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how
they're
 >> solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not
 >> going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of
some size.
 >>
 >> On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
 >>
 >> Doing some math:
 >>
 >> 40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if
equally
 >> loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is
70% water.
 >> I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but
let's
 >> say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
 >> time, around half the satellites will be barely useful
(except for
 >> cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being
over water
 >> and ground obstructions.
 >>
 >> So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned
satellite,
 >> assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically
spread out.
 >>
 >> The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
 >> capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber
capacity at
 >> maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground
station is
 >> fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max
modulation.
 >> 20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that
everyone's using
 >> it simultaneously.
 >>
 >> But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to
those
 >> about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
 >> mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
 >> reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
 >> satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that
a more
 >>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread castarritt . 
Maybe they can use the motorized gimbal to shake off snow.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:24 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It is tilted, and I don't think it's flat. It's more like a dome.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some snow
> > on that without a heater...
> >
> > On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where
> >> speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the
> >> home Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if
> >> they don’t get what they’re paying for?
> >>
> >> Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a
> >> cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?
> >>
> >> And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the
> >> early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s
> >> nobody else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who
> >> hasn’t had a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that
> >> sound like every subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max
> >> modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say the WISP was
> >> fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.
> >>
> >> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
> >>
> >> The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user
> >> terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a
> >> different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never
> >> precise about these things.
> >>
> >> I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put
> >> the same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or
> >> else they would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps
> >> per satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a
> >> given geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but
> >> the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and
> >> then of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't
> >> use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area
> >> will each use their own non-interfering chunk.
> >>
> >> I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles
> >> I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're
> >> solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not
> >> going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.
> >>
> >> On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> >>
> >> Doing some math:
> >>
> >> 40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally
> >> loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water.
> >> I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's
> >> say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
> >> time, around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for
> >> cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water
> >> and ground obstructions.
> >>
> >> So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite,
> >> assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.
> >>
> >> The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
> >> capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at
> >> maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is
> >> fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation.
> >> 20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using
> >> it simultaneously.
> >>
> >> But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those
> >> about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
> >> mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
> >> reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
> >> satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more
> >> realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.
> >>
> >> Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days,
> >> considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers
> >> using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume
> >> that from that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans
> >> without too much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing,
> >> over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and
> >> decide to reduce.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of
> >> the
> >> ones that popped up was that

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread chuck 
Yeah, it doesn’t consume uplink bandwidth.  But I learned that with canopy all 
those years ago.  (18 years ago?)  We started out selling 256k+ burst.  Then as 
competition came in we doubled it to 512k without increasing cost.  Customers 
loved it.  Our upstream connection hardly increased.  Later we doubled it again 
and again saw very little backbone change.  But those were days before 
streaming.  We postulated that higher speeds just got people on and off for 
quickly and made the whole network more efficient.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

On fiber it’s actually pretty easy to do (Gigabit for <$90) - because people 
don’t use it any harder than they use a 25/3 connection.

Mark



  On Jul 15, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  If you can sell gigabit for $50 (or even $90), don’t come to my area please.
   
  From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
   
  You're never going to see starlink in your area if you're offering a gig. 
   
  On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:44 PM Craig Schmaderer  
wrote:
Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had 
to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan 
doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried. 
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
 
The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.
So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.  
 
From: dave 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
 
Just install 40k of micropops :)



On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
  There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones 
that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to 
support ~~ 40,000 subscribers. 

  That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about 
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000). 

  In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites. 

  
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Bill Prince 

It is tilted, and I don't think it's flat. It's more like a dome.


bp


On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some snow 
on that without a heater...


On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where 
speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the 
home Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if 
they don’t get what they’re paying for?


Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a 
cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?


And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the 
early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s 
nobody else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who 
hasn’t had a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that 
sound like every subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max 
modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say the WISP was 
fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user 
terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a 
different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never 
precise about these things.


I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put 
the same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or 
else they would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps 
per satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a 
given geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but 
the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and 
then of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't 
use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area 
will each use their own non-interfering chunk.


I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles 
I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're 
solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not 
going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.


On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

    Doing some math:

    40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally
    loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water.
    I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's
    say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
    time, around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for
    cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water
    and ground obstructions.

    So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite,
    assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.

    The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
    capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at
    maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is
    fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation.
    20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using
    it simultaneously.

    But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those
    about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
    mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
    reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
    satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more
    realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.

    Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days,
    considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers
    using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume
    that from that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans
    without too much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing,
    over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and
    decide to reduce.

    On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of
    the
    ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink
    satellites is
    expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.

    That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at
    supporting about
    half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

    In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about
    1500
    satellites.

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

    --
    bp
    


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
On fiber it’s actually pretty easy to do (Gigabit for <$90) - because people 
don’t use it any harder than they use a 25/3 connection.   

Mark

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> If you can sell gigabit for $50 (or even $90), don’t come to my area please.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Ryan Ray
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
>  
> You're never going to see starlink in your area if you're offering a gig. 
>  
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:44 PM Craig Schmaderer  > wrote:
>> Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had 
>> to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan 
>> doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried. 
>>  
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
>>  
>> The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
>> million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.
>> So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.  
>>  
>> From: dave 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
>>  
>> Just install 40k of micropops :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones 
>>> that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to 
>>> support ~~ 40,000 subscribers. 
>>> 
>>> That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about 
>>> half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000). 
>>> 
>>> In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
>>> satellites. 
>>> 
>>> https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Robert Andrews 
What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some snow 
on that without a heater...


On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where 
speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the home 
Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if they 
don’t get what they’re paying for?


Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a 
cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?


And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the 
early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s nobody 
else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who hasn’t had 
a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that sound like every 
subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max modulation.  And how 
many reviews do you see that say the WISP was fast at first and then the 
speeds just got slower and slower.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user 
terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a 
different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never 
precise about these things.


I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put the 
same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or else they 
would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps per 
satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a given 
geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but the 
smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and then of 
course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't use the 
full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area will each 
use their own non-interfering chunk.


I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles 
I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're 
solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not 
going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.


On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Doing some math:

40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally
loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water.
I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's
say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
time, around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for
cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water
and ground obstructions.

So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite,
assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.

The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at
maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is
fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation.
20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using
it simultaneously.

But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those
about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more
realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.

Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days,
considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers
using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume
that from that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans
without too much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing,
over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and
decide to reduce.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of
the
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink
satellites is
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at
supporting about
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about
1500
satellites.


https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

-- 


bp



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
If you can sell gigabit for $50 (or even $90), don’t come to my area please.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

You're never going to see starlink in your area if you're offering a gig. 

 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:44 PM Craig Schmaderer mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com> > wrote:

Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had 
to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan 
doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried. 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.

So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.  

 

From: dave 

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

Just install 40k of micropops :)




On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones that 
popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to support 
~~ 40,000 subscribers. 

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about half a 
million subscribers (~~ 533,000). 

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites. 

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19 

 &_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Ryan Ray 
You're never going to see starlink in your area if you're offering a gig.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 1:44 PM Craig Schmaderer 
wrote:

> Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had
> to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan
> doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
>
>
>
> The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half
> million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.
>
> So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.
>
>
>
> *From:* dave
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
>
>
>
> Just install 40k of micropops :)
>
>
> On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones
> that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to
> support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.
>
> That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about
> half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).
>
> In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500
> satellites.
>
>
> https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Craig Schmaderer 
Yeah, ultimately I can still make money charging $50 for a gig if I had 
to(granted, it would be a lot longer ROI).   So as long as my $90 gig plan 
doesn’t get poached on, I am not worried.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.
So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.

From: dave
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

Just install 40k of micropops :)

[cid:image001.jpg@01D65ABE.A8090DA0]
On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones that 
popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to support 
~~ 40,000 subscribers.

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about half a 
million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 satellites.

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread chuck 
The good news is a half million sub limit.  They will easily find a half 
million hard to serve locations around the globe without breaking a sweat.
So the low hanging fruit are not our customers.  

From: dave 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

Just install 40k of micropops :)




On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the ones 
that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is expected to 
support ~~ 40,000 subscribers. 

  That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about half 
a million subscribers (~~ 533,000). 

  In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites. 

  
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r
 







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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread dave 

Just install 40k of micropops :)


On 7/15/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the 
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is 
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.


That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting 
about half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).


In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites.


https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r 





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
Don't forget that these are LEO. I don't know for certain, but I
  get the impression that each group of 60 satellites represents a
  ring of sorts. That would put about 6° of separation between each
  of the sats in one ring. There will also be overlapping rings at
  some point.

In watching a few of the "trains" going by, it looks like each
  satellite goes from horizon to horizon in a maximum of roughly 6
  minutes. How much time you might spend on a single satellite
  probably can't be more than that. So a lot of hopping is going to
  be going on. I also imagine that once enough rings are filled in,
  there will be multiple satellites to choose from at any given
  moment.


bp



On 7/15/2020 11:41 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to
user terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they
mean a different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources
are never precise about these things.
  I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't
put the same channel into the exact same location at the same
time, or else they would interfere.  So they might simplify and
say "20 Gbps per satellite", but I think it's really going to be
"20Gbps for a given geographic area".  I don't know how big that
area will be, but the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the
antenna has to be, and then of course the wider the beam is.  I
imagine each satellite won't use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens
of satellites over a certain area will each use their own
non-interfering chunk.
  
  I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the
articles I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to
explain how they're solving these problems, but I suspect the
20Gb per satellite is not going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb
total for a region of some size.  
  
  
  
  On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners
wrote:
  
  


  Doing some math:
  40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if
equally loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet
surface is 70% water. I don't know how much the "standard"
orbit is over water but let's say 50% as it's further from
the poles. Say that at any point in time, around half the
satellites will be barely useful (except for cruise ships,
and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water and
ground obstructions.
  
  
  So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned
satellite, assuming for simplicity that subs are equally
physically spread out.
  The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has
20Gbps capacity, let's assume that that is downlink
subscriber capacity at maximum modulation, and that the
backhaul to the ground station is fully available to that
satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation. 20Gbps / 1300
subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using it
simultaneously.
  
  
  But there are the issues with wireless in general, added
to those about customer self-installs (shudder), and
satellite service: mainly subs having trees or obstructions
in the way, blocking or reducing LoS to at least part of the
sky where their hand-off satellite should be, and rain. I'd
say that altogether that a more realistic number with those
is 8-12mbit per user.
  
  
  
  Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these
days, considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd
subscribers using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD
or 4K) I'd assume that from that they could sell mostly
30-70mbit download speed plans without too much
consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing, over time
they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and decide
to reduce.
  
  



  On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at
11:58 AM Bill Prince 
wrote:
  
  There are some details in
this story that were new to me. One of the 
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink
satellites is 
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at
supporting about 
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

In order to

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where speeds 
are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the home Internet 
perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if they don’t get what 
they’re paying for?

 

Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a cellphone 
because the speed didn’t match the marketing?

 

And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the early 
adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s nobody else on the 
network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who hasn’t had a new WISP pop up 
in your area advertising speeds that sound like every subscriber gets the full 
capacity of the AP at max modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say 
the WISP was fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

 

The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user terminal.  
20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a different sense of 
"capacity".  The journalistic sources are never precise about these things.

I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put the same 
channel into the exact same location at the same time, or else they would 
interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps per satellite", but I think 
it's really going to be "20Gbps for a given geographic area".  I don't know how 
big that area will be, but the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the 
antenna has to be, and then of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each 
satellite won't use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a 
certain area will each use their own non-interfering chunk.

I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles I've 
seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're solving these 
problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not going to be meaningful.  
It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.  

 

On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Doing some math:

40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally loaded. But 
load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water. I don't know how much 
the "standard" orbit is over water but let's say 50% as it's further from the 
poles. Say that at any point in time, around half the satellites will be barely 
useful (except for cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being 
over water and ground obstructions.

 

So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite, assuming for 
simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.

The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps capacity, let's 
assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at maximum modulation, and 
that the backhaul to the ground station is fully available to that satellite 
and also 20Gbps at max modulation. 20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, 
assuming that everyone's using it simultaneously.

 

But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those about 
customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service: mainly subs having 
trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or reducing LoS to at least part of 
the sky where their hand-off satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that 
altogether that a more realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.

 

Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days, considering the 
traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers using Netflix / D+ / etc with 
1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume that from that they could sell mostly 
30-70mbit download speed plans without too much consternation. But as traffic 
keeps increasing, over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans 
and decide to reduce.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the 
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is 
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about 
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites.

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19 

 &_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Adam Moffett 
The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user 
terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a 
different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never 
precise about these things.


I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put the 
same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or else they 
would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps per 
satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a given 
geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but the 
smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and then of 
course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't use the 
full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area will each 
use their own non-interfering chunk.


I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles 
I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're 
solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not 
going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.



On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Doing some math:
40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally 
loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water. I 
don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's say 
50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in time, 
around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for cruise 
ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water and 
ground obstructions.


So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite, 
assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.
The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps capacity, 
let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at maximum 
modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is fully 
available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation. 20Gbps 
/ 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using it 
simultaneously.


But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those 
about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service: mainly 
subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or reducing LoS 
to at least part of the sky where their hand-off satellite should be, 
and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more realistic number with 
those is 8-12mbit per user.


Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days, 
considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers using 
Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume that from 
that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans without too 
much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing, over time they 
may run out of capacity for the higher plans and decide to reduce.



On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.

That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting
about
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).

In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500
satellites.


https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

-- 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Colin Stanners 
Doing some math:
40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally loaded.
But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water. I don't know
how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's say 50% as it's
further from the poles. Say that at any point in time, around half the
satellites will be barely useful (except for cruise ships, and overseas
aircraft service) due to being over water and ground obstructions.

So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite, assuming
for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.
The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps capacity,
let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at maximum
modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is fully available
to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation. 20Gbps / 1300 subs is
15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using it simultaneously.

But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those about
customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service: mainly subs having
trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or reducing LoS to at least part
of the sky where their hand-off satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that
altogether that a more realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.

Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days, considering the
traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers using Netflix / D+ / etc
with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume that from that they could sell
mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans without too much consternation. But
as traffic keeps increasing, over time they may run out of capacity for the
higher plans and decide to reduce.


On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the
> ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is
> expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.
>
> That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about
> half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).
>
> In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500
> satellites.
>
>
> https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
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[AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

2020-07-15 Thread Bill Prince 
There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of the 
ones that popped up was that each group of 60 Starlink satellites is 
expected to support ~~ 40,000 subscribers.


That puts the 800 satellite "moderate service level" at supporting about 
half a million subscribers (~~ 533,000).


In order to support a million subscribers, they will need about 1500 
satellites.


https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-router-fcc?_pos=19&_sid=a6c7fff07&_ss=r

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread Adam Moffett 

You guys are awesome.


On 7/15/2020 9:40 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

At my age, there is no difference.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:13 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

Maybe use the concrete silos.  I’ve seen Rohn towers attached to the 
sides extending above the top, but these don’t have steel hoops.


And I had to read your post a couple times to realize you were talking 
about an old (man lift), not an (old man) lift.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:49 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

When I had a tower failure I took an old man lift, put antennas on it 
and got service restored.


Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Steve Jones
 wrote:



I blame chuck's mounts. Has nothing to do with them cutting 1 inch
guy wires, all chucks fault.

I actually did see an mtow in the middle of the pile that looks
good I hope to recover out of spite

Not going to lie, if I had tear ducts, I would maybe have had some
gay water coming from my eyes this weekend. Almost 15 years of
finding solutions, and getting there, wiped out by some wind. I'll
find a solution, it's what idiots like us do, but all that work
wiped off the map kind of sucks.. wife was pissed and made me come
home cause of some shit 2 years ago on this day where were went to
a church and have each other some shiny rocks that some prick
hammered into a circle. I didnt even have time to get her some
flowers to die

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:59 PM James Howard  wrote:

Should have named that site “Little Moe with the Gimpy Leg”……

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:55 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

That doesn’t look like an intentional demolition.  Did it just
fall over?  Looks like it was kind of a POS leg.  I hope
nobody was on it at the time.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:25 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

I'm just saying the leg wasn't on the ground when I put the
mounts on, now the leg is on the ground.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:03 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:

Those are too close to even figure out where you are. You
need to backup 50 or 100 feet and get a context picture.

bp



  


On 7/14/2020 2:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Faulty faulty faulty

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread Steve Jones 
We do have 25g running up one elsewhere, if they'll let us do that, we
could get to our backhaul up there. 11 sticks and 5 house brackets should
get us restored

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 8:41 AM  wrote:

> At my age, there is no difference.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:13 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>
>
> Maybe use the concrete silos.  I’ve seen Rohn towers attached to the sides
> extending above the top, but these don’t have steel hoops.
>
>
>
> And I had to read your post a couple times to realize you were talking
> about an old (man lift), not an (old man) lift.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>
>
>
> When I had a tower failure I took an old man lift, put antennas on it and
> got service restored.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I blame chuck's mounts. Has nothing to do with them cutting 1 inch guy
> wires, all chucks fault.
>
> I actually did see an mtow in the middle of the pile that looks good I
> hope to recover out of spite
>
> Not going to lie, if I had tear ducts, I would maybe have had some gay
> water coming from my eyes this weekend. Almost 15 years of finding
> solutions, and getting there, wiped out by some wind. I'll find a solution,
> it's what idiots like us do, but all that work wiped off the map kind of
> sucks.. wife was pissed and made me come home cause of some shit 2 years
> ago on this day where were went to a church and have each other some shiny
> rocks that some prick hammered into a circle. I didnt even have time to get
> her some flowers to die
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:59 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
> Should have named that site “Little Moe with the Gimpy Leg”……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:55 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>
>
>
> That doesn’t look like an intentional demolition.  Did it just fall over?
> Looks like it was kind of a POS leg.  I hope nobody was on it at the time.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:25 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>
>
>
> I'm just saying the leg wasn't on the ground when I put the mounts on, now
> the leg is on the ground.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Those are too close to even figure out where you are. You need to backup
> 50 or 100 feet and get a context picture.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 7/14/2020 2:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Faulty faulty faulty
>
>
>
> --
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> To: ja...@litewire.net
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Robert 

They just didn't have roll...

On 7/15/20 7:31 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Every generation likes to think it invented sex, drugs and rock and roll.

OK, maybe cave men didn’t have rock and roll.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:01 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

Not only that, the universe of human behavior portrayed as “perhaps 
normal” to a young kid is certain to ”inform” their opinion of what is 
normal and could trigger obsessive interests in - and appetites for - 
things wholly unknown to the older generations.


*From:*Mark Radabaugh

*Sent:*Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:50 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

Now the 6 year olds just go to pornhub to figure out what those parts 
on the other sex look like.


Just offhand I’m going to bet ‘playing doctor’ had a lot less long 
term impact than the current method.


Mark



On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

Could go either way.  Could be a bit of truth on both sides.

When I was very young, it was common that little kids would get
together to play “doctor” etc.  The grups even joked about it. 
Nobody ever suggested we were causing lifelong mental damage. 
Different world now.

*From:*Josh Luthman

*Sent:*Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:26 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain
aneurysm

Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the
book thrown at her =/


https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims
against her siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most
recent claims were against Adam alledging abuse while they
were both kids.

I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed
something else.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
wrote:

Who was the perv?

Steve Jones wrote:
> Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net%20%0b>>
> wrote:
>
> If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure
he didn't regret
> worrying more or being angry more.
>
> Jaime Solorza wrote:
> > RIP
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com%0b>> 
> >  >
> >
>

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
> >
> > --
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 > >
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> >
> >
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] American Girl Karen doll

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Originally a Karen was an entitled middle aged white woman who demands to see a 
manager.  Now it seems to mean anything and everything.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of justsumname
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] American Girl Karen doll

 

I thought "Karen" was the person who screeches in your face about not wearing a 
mask ...

 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:34 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/american-girl-karen-doll-parody/

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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Every generation likes to think it invented sex, drugs and rock and roll.

 

OK, maybe cave men didn’t have rock and roll.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

 

Not only that, the universe of human behavior portrayed as “perhaps normal” to 
a young kid is certain to ”inform” their opinion of what is normal and could 
trigger obsessive interests in - and appetites for - things wholly unknown to 
the older generations.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:50 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

 

Now the 6 year olds just go to pornhub to figure out what those parts on the 
other sex look like. 

 

Just offhand I’m going to bet ‘playing doctor’ had a lot less long term impact 
than the current method.

 

Mark





On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

 

Could go either way.  Could be a bit of truth on both sides.  

When I was very young, it was common that little kids would get together to 
play “doctor” etc.  The grups even joked about it.  Nobody ever suggested we 
were causing lifelong mental damage.  Different world now.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:26 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

 

Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the book thrown at 
her =/ 

 

https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/
  


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her siblings 
hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were against Adam 
alledging abuse while they were both kids.  

 

I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something else. 

 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> > wrote:

Who was the perv?

Steve Jones wrote:
> Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley   
> > wrote:
>
> If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
> worrying more or being angry more.
>
> Jaime Solorza wrote:
> > RIP
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof   
> 
> >   
> >> wrote:
> >
> >
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com    
>  
> >
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
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> *
>
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Re: [AFMUG] American Girl Karen doll

2020-07-15 Thread justsumname 
I thought "Karen" was the person who screeches in your face about not
wearing a mask ...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/american-girl-karen-doll-parody/
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Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh1_wHdUx3Y

 

skip forward to about 3:10

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:31 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

 

More info 

 

Comet Hyakutake (Japanese pronunciation:  
 [çakɯ̥take],  
 formally 
designated C/1996 B2) is a   comet, 
discovered on 31 January 1996, 
 [1] that 
passed very close to Earth in March of that year. It was dubbed The Great Comet 
of 1996; its passage near the Earth was one of the closest cometary approaches 
of the previous 200 years. Hyakutake appeared very bright in the night sky and 
was widely seen around the world. The comet temporarily upstaged the much 
anticipated   Comet 
Hale–Bopp, which was approaching the inner  
 Solar System at the time.

Scientific observations of the comet led to several discoveries. Most 
surprising to cometary scientists was the first discovery of  
 X-ray emission from a comet, believed to 
have been caused by ionised   solar 
wind particles interacting with neutral   
atoms in the   coma of the 
comet. The   Ulysses spacecraft 
unexpectedly crossed the comet's tail at a distance of more than 500 million 
kilometres (3.3 AU or 3×108 mi) from the  
 nucleus, showing that Hyakutake 
had the longest tail known for a comet.

Hyakutake is a   
long-period comet. Before its most recent passage through the Solar System, its 
orbital period was about 17,000 years, 
 [2] 
 [5] but the  
 gravitational  
 perturbation of the  
 giant planets has increased this 
period to 70,000 years. 
 [2] 
 [5]

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 

  _  

From: "Steven Kenney" mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> >
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:07:16 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

 

Hyakutake was my fav ... clear as a bell in the night sky 1996

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 

  _  

From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> >
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 12:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

 

I don’t have a clear memory of Hale-Bopp but I remember not being impressed.  
Seems like you really needed a telescope for a good view.  This one I could see 
without using anything.  It is not easy to see but you can spot it.  The tail 
is long enough that you can spot it pretty easy.  Very faint but noticeable.  

 

My grandparents told me of a Halley’s back in 1910 what was awesome.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 10:49 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

 

Out here we expect to see it just below the big dipper after sunset starting 
tonight. I think it should be visible in the evening for another couple of 
weeks.

When Hally's came around in 1986, it was considered a "poor showing". It's not 
clear to me if this is because it is diminishing in general, or whether it just 
had bad geometry that time around. None of us will probably be alive to see it 
next time.

Hale-Bopp was great, we enjoyed watching it for at least a month or so.

 

bp

 

On 7/12/2020 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Got up about 4 or so and saw the comet.  You can see it with the naked eye.  
Best one I think I have ever seen.  Halley's was no big deal.  Hale-Bopp was 
not great but was about the same as the current one.  

 

Kohoutek was the first I saw but I had to use field glasses.  





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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread chuck 
Not only that, the universe of human behavior portrayed as “perhaps normal” to 
a young kid is certain to ”inform” their opinion of what is normal and could 
trigger obsessive interests in - and appetites for - things wholly unknown to 
the older generations.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:50 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

Now the 6 year olds just go to pornhub to figure out what those parts on the 
other sex look like. 

Just offhand I’m going to bet ‘playing doctor’ had a lot less long term impact 
than the current method.


Mark



  On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Could go either way.  Could be a bit of truth on both sides.  
  When I was very young, it was common that little kids would get together to 
play “doctor” etc.  The grups even joked about it.  Nobody ever suggested we 
were causing lifelong mental damage.  Different world now.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:26 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

  Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the book thrown 
at her =/ 

  
https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/
  


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her 
siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were against 
Adam alledging abuse while they were both kids.  

I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something 
else. 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley  wrote:

  Who was the perv?

  Steve Jones wrote:
  > Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
  >
  > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley  > wrote:
  >
  > If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
  > worrying more or being angry more.
  >
  > Jaime Solorza wrote:
  > > RIP
  > >
  > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof  
  > > >> wrote:
  > >
  > >
  > 
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
  > >
  > > --
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  > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  > >
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  >
  > -- 
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  > *Cyber Broadband
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
Now the 6 year olds just go to pornhub to figure out what those parts on the 
other sex look like.

Just offhand I’m going to bet ‘playing doctor’ had a lot less long term impact 
than the current method.

Mark

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Could go either way.  Could be a bit of truth on both sides. 
> When I was very young, it was common that little kids would get together to 
> play “doctor” etc.  The grups even joked about it.  Nobody ever suggested we 
> were causing lifelong mental damage.  Different world now. 
>  
> From: Josh Luthman <>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:26 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm
>  
> Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the book thrown 
> at her =/
>  
> https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/
>  
> 
>   
>  
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>  
>  
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> > wrote:
>> Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her 
>> siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were 
>> against Adam alledging abuse while they were both kids. 
>>  
>> I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something else.
>>  
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley > 
>> wrote:
>>> Who was the perv?
>>> 
>>> Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley  
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
>>> > worrying more or being angry more.
>>> >
>>> > Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>> > > RIP
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof 
>>> > >
>>> > >  >> > >
>>> > >
>>> > 
>>> > https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
>>> >  
>>> > 
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > AF mailing list
>>> > > AF@af.afmug.com <> > 
>>> > 
>>> > >>
>>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> > 
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > *Jay Weekley*
>>> > *Cyber Broadband
>>> > *
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> > https://www.avg.com 
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread chuck 
Could go either way.  Could be a bit of truth on both sides.  
When I was very young, it was common that little kids would get together to 
play “doctor” etc.  The grups even joked about it.  Nobody ever suggested we 
were causing lifelong mental damage.  Different world now.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the book thrown at 
her =/ 

https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/
  


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her 
siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were against 
Adam alledging abuse while they were both kids.  

  I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something else. 

  On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley  wrote:

Who was the perv?

Steve Jones wrote:
> Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley  > wrote:
>
> If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
> worrying more or being angry more.
>
> Jaime Solorza wrote:
> > RIP
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof  
> > >> wrote:
> >
> >
> 
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com   >
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> *Jay Weekley*
> *Cyber Broadband
> *
>
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com 
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>

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread chuck 
At my age, there is no difference.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:13 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

Maybe use the concrete silos.  I’ve seen Rohn towers attached to the sides 
extending above the top, but these don’t have steel hoops.

 

And I had to read your post a couple times to realize you were talking about an 
old (man lift), not an (old man) lift.

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

When I had a tower failure I took an old man lift, put antennas on it and got 
service restored.

Sent from my iPhone





  On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:

  

  I blame chuck's mounts. Has nothing to do with them cutting 1 inch guy wires, 
all chucks fault.  

  I actually did see an mtow in the middle of the pile that looks good I hope 
to recover out of spite 

  Not going to lie, if I had tear ducts, I would maybe have had some gay water 
coming from my eyes this weekend. Almost 15 years of finding solutions, and 
getting there, wiped out by some wind. I'll find a solution, it's what idiots 
like us do, but all that work wiped off the map kind of sucks.. wife was pissed 
and made me come home cause of some shit 2 years ago on this day where were 
went to a church and have each other some shiny rocks that some prick hammered 
into a circle. I didnt even have time to get her some flowers to die

   

  On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:59 PM James Howard  wrote:

Should have named that site “Little Moe with the Gimpy Leg”……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:55 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

That doesn’t look like an intentional demolition.  Did it just fall over?  
Looks like it was kind of a POS leg.  I hope nobody was on it at the time.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

I'm just saying the leg wasn't on the ground when I put the mounts on, now 
the leg is on the ground.

 

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  Those are too close to even figure out where you are. You need to backup 
50 or 100 feet and get a context picture.

   

bp On 7/14/2020 2:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Faulty faulty faulty

 

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Total Control Panel
   Login
   
 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

2020-07-15 Thread Steven Kenney 
More info 



Comet Hyakutake ( Japanese pronunciation: [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Japanese | [çakɯ̥take] ] , [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_naming_conventions#Comets | formally 
designated ] C/1996 B2 ) is a [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet | comet ] , 
discovered on 31 January 1996, [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hyakutake#cite_note-iauc6299-1 | [1] ] that 
passed very close to Earth in March of that year. It was dubbed The Great Comet 
of 1996 ; its passage near the Earth was one of the closest cometary approaches 
of the previous 200 years. Hyakutake appeared very bright in the night sky and 
was widely seen around the world. The comet temporarily upstaged the much 
anticipated [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hale%E2%80%93Bopp | Comet 
Hale–Bopp ] , which was approaching the inner [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System | Solar System ] at the time. 

Scientific observations of the comet led to several discoveries. Most 
surprising to cometary scientists was the first discovery of [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray | X-ray ] emission from a comet, believed 
to have been caused by ionised [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind | 
solar wind ] particles interacting with neutral [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom | atoms ] in the [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coma_(cometary) | coma ] of the comet. The [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_probe | Ulysses spacecraft ] unexpectedly 
crossed the comet's tail at a distance of more than 500 million kilometres (3.3 
AU or 3 × 10 8 mi ) from the [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_nucleus | 
nucleus ] , showing that Hyakutake had the longest tail known for a comet. 

Hyakutake is a [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet#Orbital_characteristics | 
long-period comet ] . Before its most recent passage through the Solar System, 
its orbital period was about 17,000 years, [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hyakutake#cite_note-barycenter-2 | [2] ] [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hyakutake#cite_note-jbaa-5 | [5] ] but the 
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity | gravitational ] [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perturbation_(astronomy) | perturbation ] of the 
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_planet | giant planets ] has increased 
this period to 70,000 years. [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hyakutake#cite_note-barycenter-2 | [2] ] [ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hyakutake#cite_note-jbaa-5 | [5] ] 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Steven Kenney"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:07:16 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet 

Hyakutake was my fav ... clear as a bell in the night sky 1996 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "chuck"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 12:55:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet 

I don’t have a clear memory of Hale-Bopp but I remember not being impressed. 
Seems like you really needed a telescope for a good view. This one I could see 
without using anything. It is not easy to see but you can spot it. The tail is 
long enough that you can spot it pretty easy. Very faint but noticeable. 
My grandparents told me of a Halley’s back in 1910 what was awesome. 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 10:49 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet 


Out here we expect to see it just below the big dipper after sunset starting 
tonight. I think it should be visible in the evening for another couple of 
weeks. 


When Hally's came around in 1986, it was considered a "poor showing". It's not 
clear to me if this is because it is diminishing in general, or whether it just 
had bad geometry that time around. None of us will probably be alive to see it 
next time. 

Hale-Bopp was great, we enjoyed watching it for at least a month or so. 


bp
 
On 7/12/2020 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 



Got up about 4 or so and saw the comet. You can see it with the naked eye. Best 
one I think I have ever seen. Halley's was no big deal. Hale-Bopp was not great 
but was about the same as the current one. 
Kohoutek was the first I saw but I had to use field glasses. 






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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Josh Luthman 
Hopefully that's the case and I really hope the sister gets the book thrown
at her =/

https://people.com/tv/adam-savage-accused-raping-sister-as-a-child-lawsuit-report/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 7:16 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her
> siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were
> against Adam alledging abuse while they were both kids.
>
> I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something
> else.
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
>
>> Who was the perv?
>>
>> Steve Jones wrote:
>> > Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
>> > worrying more or being angry more.
>> >
>> > Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> > > RIP
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof > > 
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > AF mailing list
>> > > AF@af.afmug.com  > > >
>> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > *Jay Weekley*
>> > *Cyber Broadband
>> > *
>> >
>> > --
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> > https://www.avg.com
>> >
>> >
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>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh 

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:13 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Maybe use the concrete silos.  I’ve seen Rohn towers attached to the sides 
> extending above the top, but these don’t have steel hoops.
>  
> And I had to read your post a couple times to realize you were talking about 
> an old (man lift), not an (old man) lift.
>  
>  

And here I was wondering where I could get an old man lift….

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Maybe use the concrete silos.  I’ve seen Rohn towers attached to the sides 
extending above the top, but these don’t have steel hoops.

 

And I had to read your post a couple times to realize you were talking about an 
old (man lift), not an (old man) lift.

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 7:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

When I had a tower failure I took an old man lift, put antennas on it and got 
service restored.

Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:



I blame chuck's mounts. Has nothing to do with them cutting 1 inch guy wires, 
all chucks fault.  

I actually did see an mtow in the middle of the pile that looks good I hope to 
recover out of spite 

Not going to lie, if I had tear ducts, I would maybe have had some gay water 
coming from my eyes this weekend. Almost 15 years of finding solutions, and 
getting there, wiped out by some wind. I'll find a solution, it's what idiots 
like us do, but all that work wiped off the map kind of sucks.. wife was pissed 
and made me come home cause of some shit 2 years ago on this day where were 
went to a church and have each other some shiny rocks that some prick hammered 
into a circle. I didnt even have time to get her some flowers to die

 

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:59 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

Should have named that site “Little Moe with the Gimpy Leg”……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  ] On 
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:55 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

That doesn’t look like an intentional demolition.  Did it just fall over?  
Looks like it was kind of a POS leg.  I hope nobody was on it at the time.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

 

I'm just saying the leg wasn't on the ground when I put the mounts on, now the 
leg is on the ground.

 

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:03 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Those are too close to even figure out where you are. You need to backup 50 or 
100 feet and get a context picture.

 

bp

 

On 7/14/2020 2:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

Faulty faulty faulty

 

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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com  




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Re: [AFMUG] OT comet

2020-07-15 Thread Steven Kenney 
Hyakutake was my fav ... clear as a bell in the night sky 1996 

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From: "chuck"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 12:55:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet 

I don’t have a clear memory of Hale-Bopp but I remember not being impressed. 
Seems like you really needed a telescope for a good view. This one I could see 
without using anything. It is not easy to see but you can spot it. The tail is 
long enough that you can spot it pretty easy. Very faint but noticeable. 
My grandparents told me of a Halley’s back in 1910 what was awesome. 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 10:49 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT comet 


Out here we expect to see it just below the big dipper after sunset starting 
tonight. I think it should be visible in the evening for another couple of 
weeks. 


When Hally's came around in 1986, it was considered a "poor showing". It's not 
clear to me if this is because it is diminishing in general, or whether it just 
had bad geometry that time around. None of us will probably be alive to see it 
next time. 

Hale-Bopp was great, we enjoyed watching it for at least a month or so. 


bp
 
On 7/12/2020 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 



Got up about 4 or so and saw the comet. You can see it with the naked eye. Best 
one I think I have ever seen. Halley's was no big deal. Hale-Bopp was not great 
but was about the same as the current one. 
Kohoutek was the first I saw but I had to use field glasses. 






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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Chuck McCown 
Perv?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley  wrote:
>> If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret 
>> worrying more or being angry more.
>> 
>> Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> > RIP
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> > https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com 
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> -- 
>> *Jay Weekley*
>> *Cyber Broadband
>> *
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back

2020-07-15 Thread Chuck McCown 
When I had a tower failure I took an old man lift, put antennas on it and got 
service restored.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> I blame chuck's mounts. Has nothing to do with them cutting 1 inch guy wires, 
> all chucks fault.  
> I actually did see an mtow in the middle of the pile that looks good I hope 
> to recover out of spite 
> Not going to lie, if I had tear ducts, I would maybe have had some gay water 
> coming from my eyes this weekend. Almost 15 years of finding solutions, and 
> getting there, wiped out by some wind. I'll find a solution, it's what idiots 
> like us do, but all that work wiped off the map kind of sucks.. wife was 
> pissed and made me come home cause of some shit 2 years ago on this day where 
> were went to a church and have each other some shiny rocks that some prick 
> hammered into a circle. I didnt even have time to get her some flowers to die
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 7:59 PM James Howard  wrote:
>> Should have named that site “Little Moe with the Gimpy Leg”……
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:55 PM
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> That doesn’t look like an intentional demolition.  Did it just fall over?  
>> Looks like it was kind of a POS leg.  I hope nobody was on it at the time.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 7:25 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: I want my money back
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I'm just saying the leg wasn't on the ground when I put the mounts on, now 
>> the leg is on the ground.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 5:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> 
>> Those are too close to even figure out where you are. You need to backup 50 
>> or 100 feet and get a context picture.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 7/14/2020 2:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> 
>> Faulty faulty faulty
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>> Login
>> 
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> 
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>> 
>> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Adam apparently has a sister who keeps making false claims against her
siblings hoping for a payout.  Apparently the most recent claims were
against Adam alledging abuse while they were both kids.

I'm guessing this it's what he's referring to unless I missed something
else.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 5:10 AM Jay Weekley  wrote:

> Who was the perv?
>
> Steve Jones wrote:
> > Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley  > > wrote:
> >
> > If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
> > worrying more or being angry more.
> >
> > Jaime Solorza wrote:
> > > RIP
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof  > 
> > > >> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
> > >
> > > --
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> > > AF@af.afmug.com   > >
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > *Jay Weekley*
> > *Cyber Broadband
> > *
> >
> > --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Grant Imahara dies at 49 from brain aneurysm

2020-07-15 Thread Jay Weekley 

Who was the perv?

Steve Jones wrote:

Bad time for mythbusters between his death and the perv

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 12:37 PM Jay Weekley > wrote:


If he had any last thoughts before he died I'm sure he didn't regret
worrying more or being angry more.

Jaime Solorza wrote:
> RIP
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 8:09 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
> >> wrote:
>
>

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/grant-imahara-dead-mythbusters-host-was-49-1303101
>
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>
>

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