Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: EXTERNAL - BDC

[Ryan Ray]

+1

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 7:13 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Please don’t go screwing around with the web interface on 450.   It’s
> functional and works fine.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Jacob Turner  wrote:
>
> Seth, can you get the PMP450 web interface upgraded to mid 2000 standards
> while you are at it?  Our second biggest issue with PMP450 behind cost is
> that the web ui experience sucks and literally adds to the cost of already
> expensive hardware. It literally takes training employees to see basic
> stuff that is exposed in other vendor's  simple/baseline  interface.
>
> --
> Jacob Turner
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 11:31 AM Seth Poche via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>>   If I am reading this right it looks like close to 90% of your area has
>> available LiDAR with more coming. Let me know if you’d like to do a demo.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *Seth Poche*
>>
>> Advisory Services
>>
>> *seth.po...@cambiumnetworks.com *
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Kevin Neal
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 6:36 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] EXTERNAL - BDC
>>
>>
>>
>> Very straightforward for our fiber coverage.  Wireless coverage
>> though…still waiting for that info back.  No Lidar coverage here to make
>> cnHeat worth it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:39 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* EXTERNAL - [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>>
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
>> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
>> the content is safe. Please report all suspicious emails to
>> info...@anthembusinessgroup.com as an attachment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing
>> around with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and
>> just burns a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non
>> intuitive shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
>>
>>
>>
>> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im
>> telling lies and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this
>> and poke that and import and export out of our powercode database, also,
>> fuck excel, google sheets is where its at.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill
>> apparently filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that
>> turns out. I dont know, maybe now I own the company.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat
>> to hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just
>> that Im a dumbass.
>>
>>
>>
>> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs
>> in a portapotty at an august construction site in texas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] EXTERNAL - BDC

[Steve Jones]

Aside from the help it gets with the FCC nonsense, that demo will be worth
its weight in gold.
We had some data in for a different project. Installer was on site with
what was going to be a filed install, NLOS. he called in to verify he could
walk away, we tossed it into cnmaestro and there was a small mark on the
roof. literally guided him to it, something like 3rd bush in from the west
and four foot up the roof, boom, the pinhole we needed. he had actually
walked over that spot but the SM must have been scanning. That was called
recovered revenue. That otherwise 0 dollar NLOS now funds a few of the
CnHeat licenses.
I sold the boss on doing the rest by going back through our NLOS customers
and recovering more 0 dollar NLOS failed installs. Sure, we give Cambium
money for the licenses, but when it comes down to it, we dont pay anything
at all, because its funded with revenue we had already lost.
I can almost guarantee that almost any WISP will be able to recover enough
failed installs to pay for Cnheat.
And to top it off, you can tune your network for efficiency, 9 out of 10
tech will install the fist spot they get to that meets the install
threshold. now you can have them hit the best probable spot first. We have
moved a lot of radios since we got into it and weve seen marked
improvements in overal sector capacities.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 6:38 PM Kevin Neal  wrote:

> Very straightforward for our fiber coverage.  Wireless coverage
> though…still waiting for that info back.  No Lidar coverage here to make
> cnHeat worth it.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL - [AFMUG] BDC
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe. Please report all suspicious emails to
> info...@anthembusinessgroup.com as an attachment.
>
>
>
> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing
> around with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and
> just burns a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non
> intuitive shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
>
>
>
> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies
> and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that
> and import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel,
> google sheets is where its at.
>
>
>
> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill
> apparently filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that
> turns out. I dont know, maybe now I own the company.
>
>
>
> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to
> hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that
> Im a dumbass.
>
>
>
> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs
> in a portapotty at an august construction site in texas.
>
>
>
> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: EXTERNAL - BDC

[Mark Radabaugh]

Please don’t go screwing around with the web interface on 450.   It’s 
functional and works fine.  

Mark



> On Aug 31, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Jacob Turner  wrote:
> 
> Seth, can you get the PMP450 web interface upgraded to mid 2000 standards 
> while you are at it?  Our second biggest issue with PMP450 behind cost is 
> that the web ui experience sucks and literally adds to the cost of already 
> expensive hardware. It literally takes training employees to see basic stuff 
> that is exposed in other vendor's  simple/baseline  interface. 
> 
> --
> Jacob Turner 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 11:31 AM Seth Poche via AF  > wrote:
> Kevin,
> 
>   If I am reading this right it looks like close to 90% of your area has 
> available LiDAR with more coming. Let me know if you’d like to do a demo.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Seth Poche
> 
> Advisory Services
> 
> seth.po...@cambiumnetworks.com 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Kevin Neal
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 6:36 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] EXTERNAL - BDC
> 
>  
> 
> Very straightforward for our fiber coverage.  Wireless coverage though…still 
> waiting for that info back.  No Lidar coverage here to make cnHeat worth it.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Kevin
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:39 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: EXTERNAL - [AFMUG] BDC
> 
>  
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the 
> content is safe. Please report all suspicious emails to 
> info...@anthembusinessgroup.com  as 
> an attachment.
> 
>  
> 
> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing around 
> with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and just burns 
> a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non intuitive 
> shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
> 
>  
> 
> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies 
> and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that 
> and import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel, google 
> sheets is where its at.
> 
>  
> 
> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill apparently 
> filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that turns out. I 
> dont know, maybe now I own the company.
> 
>  
> 
> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to 
> hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that Im 
> a dumbass. 
> 
>  
> 
> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs in 
> a portapotty at an august construction site in texas. 
> 
>  
> 
> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

Vger

On 8/31/22 2:58 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

https://youtu.be/kHUZCVl28lg
*From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:51 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I thought the star trek one was Pioneer 1?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:47 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

Nope, did you not watch Star Trek?

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:06 PM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

The Voyager probes don't use solar; they are nuke powered. There is 
pretty much no actual sun out where they are now anyway. Their EOL is 
coming around pretty darn soon though.


bp


On 8/31/2022 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been
majority) charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render
them useless in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear
out in 20 years. And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc
etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it is.  I
think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be
wrong about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that
almost 40 years ago.

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*'Chuck McCown'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d
pat myself on the back a bit.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the
data through a known defective computer.

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got
good telemetry.

Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and
receivers and other RF components allowing communication clear out
into deep space.

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.





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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I am going to challenge everything I can.  Assuming they are full of crap in an 
area.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 5:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

chucks got jokes 

I see targeted troll attacks against ISPs with this challenge process. Similar 
to the yelp/google review nonsense that occurs. Wont impact the big guys theyll 
have staff or systems that handle it. FCC will probably fine us. They used to 
say people went postal, it may get to the point where people go wireless



On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  So, where's the link to the map?  Is it out there yet?

  -Original Message- 
  From: Seth Mattinen 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 12:27 PM 
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC service 

  On 8/26/22 8:54 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
  > On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
  >> The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So 
  >> yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty 
  >> easy search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set 
  >> to false.
  > 
  > 
  > Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63% 
  > of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with 
  > this new thing.
  > 


  I asked about submitting inaccurate data and this was the response:


  "Unfortunately, there is no link to upload fabric challenge data into 
  the system. The FCC has created the Fabric Data Challenge process. 
  Please do not submit the addresses that are missing. Filers need to 
  submit their BDC filing without the missing addresses included.

  Filers will be able to challenge Fabric data after the September 1, 2022 
  BDC filing deadline.
  There are two ways to challenge data, in bulk or as an individual. 
  Individuals would submit via the FCC Broadband Map that will be 
  available this Fall. Functionality will allow any member of the public 
  to search for an address and see the location on the map. Within the FCC 
  Broadband Map, they will be able to submit a dispute, or challenge, of 
  the information shown on the map."

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Steve Jones]

chucks got jokes

I see targeted troll attacks against ISPs with this challenge process.
Similar to the yelp/google review nonsense that occurs. Wont impact the big
guys theyll have staff or systems that handle it. FCC will probably fine
us. They used to say people went postal, it may get to the point where
people go wireless



On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So, where's the link to the map?  Is it out there yet?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 12:27 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC service
>
> On 8/26/22 8:54 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> > On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
> >> The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So
> >> yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty
> >> easy search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set
> >> to false.
> >
> >
> > Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63%
> > of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with
> > this new thing.
> >
>
>
> I asked about submitting inaccurate data and this was the response:
>
>
> "Unfortunately, there is no link to upload fabric challenge data into
> the system. The FCC has created the Fabric Data Challenge process.
> Please do not submit the addresses that are missing. Filers need to
> submit their BDC filing without the missing addresses included.
>
> Filers will be able to challenge Fabric data after the September 1, 2022
> BDC filing deadline.
> There are two ways to challenge data, in bulk or as an individual.
> Individuals would submit via the FCC Broadband Map that will be
> available this Fall. Functionality will allow any member of the public
> to search for an address and see the location on the map. Within the FCC
> Broadband Map, they will be able to submit a dispute, or challenge, of
> the information shown on the map."
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

https://youtu.be/kHUZCVl28lg

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:51 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I thought the star trek one was Pioneer 1?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:47 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

Nope, did you not watch Star Trek?

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:06 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

The Voyager probes don't use solar; they are nuke powered. There is pretty much 
no actual sun out where they are now anyway. Their EOL is coming around pretty 
darn soon though.

 

bpOn 8/31/2022 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

   

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   








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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Daniel Pautz via AF]

I thought the star trek one was Pioneer 1?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:47 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

Nope, did you not watch Star Trek?

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:06 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

The Voyager probes don't use solar; they are nuke powered. There is pretty much 
no actual sun out where they are now anyway. Their EOL is coming around pretty 
darn soon though.

 

bp


On 8/31/2022 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com   

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 





  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Nope, did you not watch Star Trek?

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:06 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

The Voyager probes don't use solar; they are nuke powered. There is pretty much 
no actual sun out where they are now anyway. Their EOL is coming around pretty 
darn soon though.



bp
On 8/31/2022 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   


   



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Bill Prince]

The Voyager probes don't use solar; they are nuke powered. There is 
pretty much no actual sun out where they are now anyway. Their EOL is 
coming around pretty darn soon though.



bp


On 8/31/2022 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) 
charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless 
in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  
And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good 
modulation they are using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of 
pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  A professor 
in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry. The folks running that show figured it was routing the data 
through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[dmmoffett]

Come now; a technician is no more flammable than a sack of water.  Just tell 
them to stop being babies about it.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHW-RTG

 

"The initial thermoelectric couple hot junction temperature was 1273 K (1000 
°C, 1832 °F)"

You might not need much radiator surface area when it is that hot.  Just be 
careful when packing the spacecraft up on the rocket that you don't touch it 
with combustible materials like solvents, oils, and technicians.

 

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:01 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

No moving parts, not generating through reaction, just through decay...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

On 8/31/22 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something like 10kW 
thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are horribly inefficient.  So 
out on that boom they have had a 10kW glowing chunk of metal all this time.  Or 
did they have multiple chunks that they moved together to react?  In any event, 
that is a bunch of heat to get rid of.  They must have had a way to turn it up 
because getting 10 kW out of the launch vehicle would have been a huge problem. 
 

 

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: Daniel Pautz 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I read this a few years back.   
https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/

 

They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board.  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com   

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 

 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[castarritt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHW-RTG

"The initial thermoelectric couple hot junction temperature was 1273 K
(1000 °C, 1832 °F)"

You might not need much radiator surface area when it is that hot.  Just be
careful when packing the spacecraft up on the rocket that you don't touch
it with combustible materials like solvents, oils, and technicians.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:01 PM Robert  wrote:

> No moving parts, not generating through reaction, just through decay...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
>
> On 8/31/22 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something like
> 10kW thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are horribly
> inefficient.  So out on that boom they have had a 10kW glowing chunk of
> metal all this time.  Or did they have multiple chunks that they moved
> together to react?  In any event, that is a bunch of heat to get rid of.
> They must have had a way to turn it up because getting 10 kW out of the
> launch vehicle would have been a huge problem.
>
> *From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
> I read this a few years back.
> https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/
>
>
>
> They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?
>
> On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:
>
> Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on
> board.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority)
> charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20
> years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic
> rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are
> using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code
> but I may be wrong about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that
> almost 40 years ago.
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.
>
>
>
> But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat
> myself on the back a bit.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage
> telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the data
> through a known defective computer.
>
>
>
> So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good
> telemetry.
>
>
>
> Talk about latency... 16 hours.
>
>
>
> So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still
> essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other
> RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.
>
>
>
> Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Chuck McCown via AF]

So, where's the link to the map?  Is it out there yet?

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 12:27 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC service 


On 8/26/22 8:54 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So 
yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty 
easy search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set 
to false.



Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63% 
of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with 
this new thing.





I asked about submitting inaccurate data and this was the response:


"Unfortunately, there is no link to upload fabric challenge data into 
the system. The FCC has created the Fabric Data Challenge process. 
Please do not submit the addresses that are missing. Filers need to 
submit their BDC filing without the missing addresses included.


Filers will be able to challenge Fabric data after the September 1, 2022 
BDC filing deadline.
There are two ways to challenge data, in bulk or as an individual. 
Individuals would submit via the FCC Broadband Map that will be 
available this Fall. Functionality will allow any member of the public 
to search for an address and see the location on the map. Within the FCC 
Broadband Map, they will be able to submit a dispute, or challenge, of 
the information shown on the map."


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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/26/22 8:54 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So 
yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty 
easy search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set 
to false.



Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63% 
of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with 
this new thing.





I asked about submitting inaccurate data and this was the response:


"Unfortunately, there is no link to upload fabric challenge data into 
the system. The FCC has created the Fabric Data Challenge process. 
Please do not submit the addresses that are missing. Filers need to 
submit their BDC filing without the missing addresses included.


Filers will be able to challenge Fabric data after the September 1, 2022 
BDC filing deadline.
There are two ways to challenge data, in bulk or as an individual. 
Individuals would submit via the FCC Broadband Map that will be 
available this Fall. Functionality will allow any member of the public 
to search for an address and see the location on the map. Within the FCC 
Broadband Map, they will be able to submit a dispute, or challenge, of 
the information shown on the map."


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

No moving parts, not generating through reaction, just through decay...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

On 8/31/22 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something 
like 10kW thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are 
horribly inefficient.  So out on that boom they have had a 10kW 
glowing chunk of metal all this time.  Or did they have multiple 
chunks that they moved together to react?  In any event, that is a 
bunch of heat to get rid of.  They must have had a way to turn it up 
because getting 10 kW out of the launch vehicle would have been a huge 
problem.

*From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I read this a few years back. 
https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/


They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby
nuke on board.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been
majority) charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render
them useless in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear
out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc
etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it is.  I
think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be
wrong about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that
almost 40 years ago.

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*'Chuck McCown'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d
pat myself on the back a bit.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the
data through a known defective computer.

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got
good telemetry.

Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is
still essentially rocks solid. So are the transmitters and
receivers and other RF components allowing communication clear out
into deep space.

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

The power efficiencies of the thermocouples are still not lining up for me.  
Been reading about the modules and they were only testing out at 5% which is 
normal for a TEG.  But the published heat power in vs electrical power out says 
20%.  Some kind of military industrial conspiracy at work here I think...

Been reading about launch failures.  We have one surviving unit on the bottom 
of the ocean.  They monitor the area for leakage.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

These RTGs are an issue for future probes due to nobody making the Pu-238 
available...  Besides the change in position of launching those kind of risks.. 
  I believe a russian one came down in Canada and created quite the mess...


On 8/31/22 10:31 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  oyager 1 has three radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) mounted on a 
boom. Each MHW-RTG contains 24 pressed plutonium-238 oxide spheres. The RTGs 
generated about 470 W of electric power at the time of launch, with the 
remainder being dissipated as waste heat.

  87.7 year half life.  

  From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:23 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: Daniel Pautz 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

  Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board. 
 

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

   

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

These RTGs are an issue for future probes due to nobody making the 
Pu-238 available...  Besides the change in position of launching those 
kind of risks..   I believe a russian one came down in Canada and 
created quite the mess...


On 8/31/22 10:31 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
oyager 1 has three*radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) 
mounted on a boom*. Each MHW-RTG contains 24 pressed plutonium-238 
oxide spheres. The RTGs generated about 470 W of electric power at the 
time of launch, with the remainder being dissipated as waste heat.

87.7 year half life.
*From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:23 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* Daniel Pautz
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on 
board.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 


*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) 
charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless 
in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  
And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good 
modulation they are using whatever it is. I think it was some kind of 
pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  A professor 
in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.


*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*'Chuck McCown'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the 
data through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

Yup, at Rolm the core memory team was all women...  finer touch.

On 8/31/22 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I remember seeing movies when I was a kid of women sewing these things 
by hand.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:24 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
Almost certainly using core memory, not subject to cosmic ray damage.  
Used to have it on Rolm Mil-Spec computers.   Turn off system, turn it 
back on, right where it was before...


On 8/31/22 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been 
majority) charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render 
them useless in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out 
in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  
Danged good modulation they are using whatever it is.  I think it was 
some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  
A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown 
via AF

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the 
data through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid. So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep 
space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

I have to think the frequencies chosen probably give a pretty low 
background noise


On 8/31/22 10:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
3.2.2.4 Telemetry Modulation. The telemetry comes to the telemetry 
modulation unit (TMU) separately as a “low-rate” channel and a 
“high-rate” channel. Low rate is 40 bps only and its routing through 
the TMU is such that it can only be downlinked as uncoded bits. High 
rate, one of a set of rates between 10 bps and 115.2 kilobits per 
second (kbps), is downlinked as coded symbols. The TMU encodes the 
high-rate data stream with a convolutional code having constraint 
length of 7 and a symbol rate equal to twice the bit rate (k = 7, r = 
1/2). Either modulator can biphase-modulate the telemetry symbols onto 
either a 22.5-kilohertz (kHz) or a 360-kHz subcarrier. A subcarrier is 
a symmetrical square wave signal derived from a TMU crystal oscillator 
that has a nominal frequency of 2.88 MHz. The 360-kHz subcarrier is 
required for bit rates greater than 7.2 kbps. The TMU has one 
modulator for the S-band downlink and another for X-band downlink. The 
modulated subcarrier goes to the S- or X-band exciter.

So, the same as original Canopy.
*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) 
charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless 
in 20 years. Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  
And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good 
modulation they are using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of 
pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  A professor 
in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the 
data through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHW-RTG

So the thermocouples need to generate the power were 20% efficient.  That is 
impressive.NASA got the good stuff as one would expect.

Still, they had to get rid of 2.4kW of thermal at all times.  So there must 
have been active cooling when the unit was being packaged up and launched.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something like 10kW 
thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are horribly inefficient.  So 
out on that boom they have had a 10kW glowing chunk of metal all this time.  Or 
did they have multiple chunks that they moved together to react?  In any event, 
that is a bunch of heat to get rid of.  They must have had a way to turn it up 
because getting 10 kW out of the launch vehicle would have been a huge problem. 
 

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I read this a few years back.   
https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/

 

They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:

  Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board. 
 

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

   

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   





 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something like 10kW 
thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are horribly inefficient.  So 
out on that boom they have had a 10kW glowing chunk of metal all this time.  Or 
did they have multiple chunks that they moved together to react?  In any event, 
that is a bunch of heat to get rid of.  They must have had a way to turn it up 
because getting 10 kW out of the launch vehicle would have been a huge problem. 
 

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I read this a few years back.   
https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/

 

They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:

  Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board. 
 

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
  To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

   

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   





 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

oyager 1 has three radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) mounted on a 
boom. Each MHW-RTG contains 24 pressed plutonium-238 oxide spheres. The RTGs 
generated about 470 W of electric power at the time of launch, with the 
remainder being dissipated as waste heat.

87.7 year half life.  

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:23 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Daniel Pautz via AF]

I read this a few years back.   
https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/

 

They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board.  

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com  ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave 
Users Group'   
Cc: Chuck McCown   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com   

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I remember seeing movies when I was a kid of women sewing these things by hand. 
 


From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:24 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

Almost certainly using core memory, not subject to cosmic ray damage.  Used to 
have it on Rolm Mil-Spec computers.   Turn off system, turn it back on, right 
where it was before...


On 8/31/22 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

  From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

  I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

   

  But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself 
on the back a bit.

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

   

  This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

   

  So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

   

  Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

   

  So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

   

  Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

   


   





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I think you are right.  

From: Daniel Pautz via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:23 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?

On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:


Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on 
board.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 


*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) 
charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless 
in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  
And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good 
modulation they are using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of 
pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  A professor 
in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.


*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*'Chuck McCown'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the 
data through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

3.2.2.4 Telemetry Modulation. The telemetry comes to the telemetry modulation 
unit (TMU) separately as a “low-rate” channel and a “high-rate” channel. Low 
rate is 40 bps only and its routing through the TMU is such that it can only be 
downlinked as uncoded bits. High rate, one of a set of rates between 10 bps and 
115.2 kilobits per second (kbps), is downlinked as coded symbols. The TMU 
encodes the high-rate data stream with a convolutional code having constraint 
length of 7 and a symbol rate equal to twice the bit rate (k = 7, r = 1/2). 
Either modulator can biphase-modulate the telemetry symbols onto either a 
22.5-kilohertz (kHz) or a 360-kHz subcarrier. A subcarrier is a symmetrical 
square wave signal derived from a TMU crystal oscillator that has a nominal 
frequency of 2.88 MHz. The 360-kHz subcarrier is required for bit rates greater 
than 7.2 kbps. The TMU has one modulator for the S-band downlink and another 
for X-band downlink. The modulated subcarrier goes to the S- or X-band exciter.


So, the same as original Canopy.   

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Robert]

Almost certainly using core memory, not subject to cosmic ray damage.  
Used to have it on Rolm Mil-Spec computers.   Turn off system, turn it 
back on, right where it was before...


On 8/31/22 10:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) 
charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless 
in 20 years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  
And cosmic rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good 
modulation they are using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of 
pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong about that.  A professor 
in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.

*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat 
myself on the back a bit.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage 
telemetry. The folks running that show figured it was routing the data 
through a known defective computer.


So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.


Talk about latency... 16 hours.

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is 
still essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers 
and other RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.


Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Daniel Pautz via AF]

Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on board.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com   

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority) charge 
carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20 years.  
Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic rays kill 
all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are using whatever it 
is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code but I may be wrong 
about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that almost 40 years ago.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat myself on 
the back a bit.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[dmmoffett]

I'd bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.

 

But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I'd pat myself
on the back a bit.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

 

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known
defective computer.  

 

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good
telemetry.  

 

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

 

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

 

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  

 

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Didn't help the sites were down from 11pm to 8am this morning


On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 10:32 AM  wrote:

> They knew full well that 477 was imperfect, and they must know this is
> too.  Just hope they figure out some improvements for next year.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 10:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
>
>
> Steve-
>
>
>
> You may not say it but I will. The FCC is ran by more then a bunch of
> turds. It’s Ran by a bunch of clueless stupid idiots who’s job is to make
> neutral and fair decisions in the best interest of this country.
>
>
>
> What you got is a group of people making decisions harming businesses
> across the US with data that is half ass.
>
>
>
> Like the IRS the real solution is to dismantle and start over not try and
> crutch every time the public cries.
>
>
>
> When I reviewed our first submission today I just shook my head, rolled my
> eyes and asked how the hell we got to this point.
>
>
>
> Perhaps it’s just shit tower coverage data. Who knows.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President Internet Communications Inc. 739 Commerce
> Dr. Franklin, IN 46131  *
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> VIA WIRELESS
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2022, at 9:53 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> 
>
> You should try filing 200+
>
>
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 4:43 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing
> around with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and
> just burns a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non
> intuitive shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
>
>
>
> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies
> and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that
> and import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel,
> google sheets is where its at.
>
>
>
> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill
> apparently filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that
> turns out. I dont know, maybe now I own the company.
>
>
>
> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to
> hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that
> Im a dumbass.
>
>
>
> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs
> in a portapotty at an august construction site in texas.
>
>
>
> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface
>
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>
> --
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[AFMUG] OT Voyager

[Chuck McCown via AF]

This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage telemetry.  
The folks running that show figured it was routing the data through a known 
defective computer.  

So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good 
telemetry.  

Talk about latency... 16 hours.  

So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still 
essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other RF 
components allowing communication clear out into deep space.  

Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.  
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[dmmoffett]

They knew full well that 477 was imperfect, and they must know this is too.  
Just hope they figure out some improvements for next year.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 10:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

 

Steve- 

 

You may not say it but I will. The FCC is ran by more then a bunch of turds. 
It’s Ran by a bunch of clueless stupid idiots who’s job is to make neutral and 
fair decisions in the best interest of this country.

 

What you got is a group of people making decisions harming businesses across 
the US with data that is half ass.

 

Like the IRS the real solution is to dismantle and start over not try and 
crutch every time the public cries. 

 

When I reviewed our first submission today I just shook my head, rolled my eyes 
and asked how the hell we got to this point. 

 

Perhaps it’s just shit tower coverage data. Who knows.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr.   
Franklin, IN 46131   
  
317-738-0320   Daytime # 
317-412-1540   Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net

 

VIA WIRELESS 





On Aug 30, 2022, at 9:53 PM, Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com> > wrote:

 

You should try filing 200+ 

 

Cameron

 

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 4:43 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing around 
with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and just burns a 
stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non intuitive shit 
youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes. 

 

I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies and 
this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that and 
import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel, google 
sheets is where its at.

 

Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill apparently 
filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that turns out. I dont 
know, maybe now I own the company.

 

The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to 
hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that Im a 
dumbass. 

 

Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs in a 
portapotty at an august construction site in texas. 

 

Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface 

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Re: [AFMUG] Larger Standby Generators

[Steven Kenney via AF]

We power our entire plaza on it.  So it was well worth the investment.  Our
business always continues to operate.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM Daniel Pautz via AF  wrote:

> At 30k you are getting into the big boy stuff.   I want to say our most
> recent 500KW cummins purchase (only a few years old) was in the 50k
> range.   Smaller units are a good bit cheaper.  These are higher end units
> that are tanks.  Easy to set up remote start with a decent ATS (also
> cheap)
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 6:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Larger Standby Generators
>
>
>
> We bought a used Kohler from a farmer in Alberta had it shipped to us for
> under $30k.  Worked perfectly with a little maintenance.   Even ran a full
> work day on it when our power company was replacing a pole.  But I didn't
> want to rely on it so I made a sub panel for our NOC with a manual override
> and a massive 50 amp cable that is like 50ft.  "Just in case" both power
> and generator failed.
>
>
>
> That "just in case" happened.  We were hit by lightning couple weeks ago
> and the panel blew including access to the generator.  So we were on
> battery at 4am with 2-3hours runtime.  We pull about 30-40 amps.  So our
> guys ran the 50 amp plug to a mobile generator, did the manual override and
> we were safe with 1 hour left to go.  We have a mobile air conditioning
> unit with a long pipe to vent outside.
>
>
>
> So moral of the story.  Don't have just 1 backup.  In my case I had 4
> layers of backup for worst case scenarios.  That scenario happened! I'm
> glad I planned for this because we got hit the Friday before my vacation!
> So nobody was down (except people on our tower) and I was able to go and
> enjoy my vacation.
>
>
>
> Can't stress enough to have multiple options!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 12:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Well, larger wires need larger conduit.  They all work the same but the
> control wires are all different so you cannot use the old switch for the
> new generator... almost guaranteed.  The amperage will almost certainly be
> too small etc.  I am always astounded at how large the enclosures are for
> these things.  Upgrading to a larger generator will likely require twice
> the wall space for the transfer switch.  I think I would shop based on what
> the transfer switch looked like and if you can fit it somewhere on the
> wall.
>
>
>
> Nothing wrong with Generac.  I have used their larger units without issue
> other than in the past their built in starter motor battery charger would
> fail and it would not be known until you actually needed it.  I outfitted
> all the sites with telemetry and we watched that voltage carefully.
> Especially after they exercise each week or month.  We also resorted to
> installing the starting batteries inside the climate controlled area and
> adding a high quality battery maintainer to them.  That battery is the
> weakest link in the whole system.
>
>
>
> Not sure what your climate is, but the colder areas need engine heaters.
> That is important.  And larger is almost always better for longevity.  I
> once installed a unit that was fine for the load, but we had those external
> wall mount AC units and after a power outage, especially a short one, the
> generator could not start both ACs at the same time.  Had to put a device
> on that would only allow one AC to run under generator power.
>
>
>
> I always required the techs to check the hour meter each time they went to
> the site.  Our call center kept logs of generator hours and notified techs
> if they discovered an hour meter was not advancing (from the exercise
> cycles).
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 27, 2022 8:45 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Larger Standby Generators
>
>
>
> Our main datacenter has for years had a single 11kw residential style
> generac. Due to increasing power load and improving redundancy I want to
> upgrade to dual larger generators.
>
>
>
> Trying to decide between new 22kw air cooled residential units or used
> larger liquid cooled commercial style units. Maybe one of each. Building
> has 200A single phase service so ~50kw is the max that would make sense.
>
>
>
> I am leaning towards used commercial style units but not sure how the
> controls/ATS work, and if there is a concern of being able to fish the
> correct transfer switch for an older generator, or if they are fairly
> universal. Have only installed whole kits from generac before.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Chris
>
>
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>
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