Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Launch window flexibility is a function of the ride to space and not the Crew Dragon / Starliner. Falcon 9 reaches MECO and stage separation much earlier in flight, which is a big part of why it can land. Atlas5 first stage does more of the work and has time to change trajectory a bit more opening up the window by a few minutes. Off the top of my head, you launch when the target is directly overhead. Any delay beyond that requires a dog leg. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 1:40 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a > specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. > Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is > more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does > this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water > or on land. > > > > Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top > of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > > > > 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) > > 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) > > 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) > > 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) > > If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. > > > > bp > > > > > > On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > Just a reminder in case you forgot. > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CATOMgU22Nk
Stuff happening.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:01 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I’ve often wished vehicles had two sets of controls up front.
Getting tired or fatigued? Just switch control to your passenger.
On May 31, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just wait a few years...
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of
your bio-needs before you start out on a trip.
My bladder is larger than my gas tank.
On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the
difference between a car and an RV?
From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet.
They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago.
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
How much room is there in that capsule?
Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get
out and at least move a bit?
On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the
ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and
let the ISS catch up to them.
Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned
docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from
the target. Nobody had thought it through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are
behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and
slow down...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can
maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?)
that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion
zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone
until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just
outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking
station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is
autonomous.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same
guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this
sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on
land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on
top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:18 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I’ve often wished vehicles had two sets of controls up front. Getting tired or fatigued? Just switch control to your passenger. On May 31, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just wait a few years... From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:44 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. My bladder is larger than my gas tank. On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the difference between a car and an RV? From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them. Watch this video <https://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-reach-the-international-space-station-2015-3> from about the 5:10 point. bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:c
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Aren’t all Teslas electric? From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:18 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I either don’t want to know how you know that, or you have an electric vehicle. On May 31, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: My bladder is larger than my gas tank battery. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:45 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. My bladder is larger than my gas tank. On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the difference between a car and an RV? From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them. Watch this video <https://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-reach-the-international-space-station-2015-3> from about the 5:10 point. bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you kn
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I either don’t want to know how you know that, or you have an electric vehicle. > On May 31, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > My bladder is larger than my gas tank battery. > > > From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:45 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of > your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. > > My bladder is larger than my gas tank. > > > > On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the > difference between a car and an RV? > > From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. > They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. > > From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > How much room is there in that capsule? > > Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get > out and at least move a bit? > > > > On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. > > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS > and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and > let the ISS catch up to them. > > Watch this video from about the 5:10 point. > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking > test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the > target. Nobody had thought it through. > > More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. > > So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock. If you are > behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and > slow down... > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can > maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in > the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be > enough left in that to de-orbit. > > I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that > illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. > > The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of > sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they > make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the > exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The > crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific > time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy > said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more > maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this > sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on > land. > > Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of > 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. > > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > > 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) > > 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) > > 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) > > 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) > > If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > Just a reminder in case you forgot. > > > > > &g
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I’ve often wished vehicles had two sets of controls up front. Getting tired or fatigued? Just switch control to your passenger. > On May 31, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > Just wait a few years... > > From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:44 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of > your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. > > My bladder is larger than my gas tank. > > >> On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> >> >> So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the >> difference between a car and an RV? >> >> From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. >> They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. >> >> From: Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> How much room is there in that capsule? >> >> Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get >> out and at least move a bit? >> >> >> On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> >> >> That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. >> >> >> From: Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS >> and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and >> let the ISS catch up to them. >> >> Watch this video from about the 5:10 point. >> >> bp >> >> >> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking >> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the >> target. Nobody had thought it through. >> >> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. >> >> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are >> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and >> slow down... >> >> From: Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can >> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in >> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be >> enough left in that to de-orbit. >> >> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that >> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. >> >> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of >> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until >> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just >> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking >> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation >> is autonomous. >> >> >> >> bp >> >> >> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific >> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy >> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more >> maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this >> sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on >> land. >> >> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of >> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. >> >> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> &
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Just wait a few years...
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of
your bio-needs before you start out on a trip.
My bladder is larger than my gas tank.
On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the
difference between a car and an RV?
From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet.
They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago.
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
How much room is there in that capsule?
Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get
out and at least move a bit?
On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS
and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let
the ISS catch up to them.
Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking
test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the
target. Nobody had thought it through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are
behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and
slow down...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can
maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that
illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone
of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until
they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside
the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The
crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same
guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this
sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on
land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on
top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just a reminder in case you forgot.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
My bladder is larger than my gas tank battery. From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:45 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. My bladder is larger than my gas tank. On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the difference between a car and an RV? From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them. Watch this video <https://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-reach-the-international-space-station-2015-3> from about the 5:10 point. bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets? Take care of your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. My bladder is larger than my gas tank. > On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the > difference between a car and an RV? > > From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. > They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. > > From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > How much room is there in that capsule? > > Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get > out and at least move a bit? > > > On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. > > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS > and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and > let the ISS catch up to them. > > Watch this video from about the 5:10 point. > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking > test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the > target. Nobody had thought it through. > > More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. > > So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are > behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and > slow down... > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can > maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in > the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be > enough left in that to de-orbit. > > I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that > illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. > > The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of > sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they > make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the > exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The > crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific > time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy > said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more > maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this > sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on > land. > > Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of > 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. > > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > > 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) > > 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) > > 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) > > 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) > > If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > Just a reminder in case you forgot. > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too. Or is that the difference between a car and an RV? From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them. Watch this video <https://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-reach-the-international-space-station-2015-3> from about the 5:10 point. bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers. It has a toilet. They are probably out of it by now. The spacecraft docked a bit ago. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them. Watch this video from about the 5:10 point. bp On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
How much room is there in that capsule? Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out and at least move a bit? > On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive. > > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS > and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and > let the ISS catch up to them. > > Watch this video from about the 5:10 point. > > bp > > >> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking >> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the >> target. Nobody had thought it through. >> >> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. >> >> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are >> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and >> slow down... >> >> From: Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can >> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in >> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be >> enough left in that to de-orbit. >> >> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that >> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. >> >> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of >> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until >> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just >> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking >> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation >> is autonomous. >> >> >> >> bp >> >> >>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a >>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. >>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is >>> more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does >>> this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water >>> or on land. >>> >>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of >>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. >>> >>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM >>> To: af@af.afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >>> >>> >>> >>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) >>> >>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) >>> >>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) >>> >>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) >>> >>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> Just a reminder in case you forgot. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
That was a nice video. Very counterintuitive.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS and
orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and let the
ISS catch up to them.
Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
bp
On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking
test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the
target. Nobody had thought it through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are
behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and
slow down...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can
maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that
illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of
sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they
make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the
exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew
dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same
guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this
sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on
land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of
737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just a reminder in case you forgot.
--
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Sounds like a lot of support folks I’ve dealt with in our industry. > On May 30, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > and reluctant to believe it was a design flaw after the first failure. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just
below the ISS and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS.
Then they turn around and let the ISS catch up to them.
Watch this
video from about the 5:10 point.
bp
On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA
manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle
and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it
through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital
period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to
dock. If you are behind, you slow down until you get
ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down...
From: Bill
Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's
Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window
that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the
amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to
the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX
web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at
the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is
an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need
to target to outside that zone until they make their final
approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside
the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the
docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is
that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken
Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew
capsule has to be launched at a specific time to
rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a
bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider
launch window because it is more maneuverable.
Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.
Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be
the way they land, in water or on land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing
capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max
fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's
Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what
to do.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just a reminder in case
you forgot.
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Ala The
Last Starfighter.
bp
On 5/30/2020 2:42 PM, Robert Andrews
wrote:
I
could imagine if there was someone that was just a natural at it
they would get an email...
On 05/30/2020 02:31 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Try out their docking simulator.
https://iss-sim.spacex.com/
bp
On 5/30/2020 12:42 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yes on the up and down. But if you want
to catch up to another airplane you do give it more throttle.
*From:* Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure -
2nd Try
So basically the way an airplane operates?
On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM,
ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA
manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle
and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it
through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital
period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.
If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and
then speed up to raise up and slow down...
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure
- 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window
that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the
amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the
back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in
that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX
web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the
different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an
exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to
target to outside that zone until they make their final
approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the
exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the
docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is
that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be
launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS,
sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing
design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that
different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems
to be the way they land, in water or on land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air
travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing
as a company.
*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of
*Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent
Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to
do.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
On 5/30/20 2:37 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: All pioneered in the mind of Buzz Aldrin.. AKA Dr. Rendezvous -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I thought docking was fully automated, the humans are essentially cargo. From: AF On Behalf Of Ryan Ray Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try I successfully docked on the first time without reading any of the instructions. Send me to space. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:32 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: Try out their docking simulator. https://iss-sim.spacex.com/ bp On 5/30/2020 12:42 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to another airplane you do give it more throttle. From: Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So basically the way an airplane operates? On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Interesting read. Apparently it was a bigger and more complicated screwup than I remembered. BTW, I don’t think my roommate was involved in developing that product, more like a legendary example, as you described. 737 Max fiasco seems to belong in somewhat the same category. Design reuse, lack of independent design review, incorrect assumptions about human operators, and reluctant to believe it was a design flaw after the first failure. I guess we never learn, even from legendary mistakes taught in college. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:12 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try GE Therac. That is used as an example in many programming classes. It is legendary. Or at least it was when I was in college. I happened when I was an undergrad. As I recall, it was a race condition. The operators got so good that they were entering key stroke sequences faster than the machine could process them. It locked open an aperture that controlled the dose. So folks got the max dose, even when the operator thought the machine was off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 3:55 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try Exactly. We are so used to software products where you can fail fast and learn without killing people. I remember my college roommate went to work for a big X-ray equipment company like GE or Siemens. They had a firmware bug where a therapeutic (as opposed to diagnostic) X-ray system delivered something like 10 times the correct dose, and killed a patient. The manufacturer sent a team and couldn’t find a defect, decided it must have been human error, until it killed another patient. Oops, just a minor coding error. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:13 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try As long as they do that before people are on top. On May 30, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10 (or so) super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what went wrong. bp On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come out of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow up lots of them, Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote: Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like “that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh the humanity”. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I successfully docked on the first time without reading any of the instructions. Send me to space. On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:32 PM Bill Prince wrote: > Try out their docking simulator. > > https://iss-sim.spacex.com/ > > bp > > > > On 5/30/2020 12:42 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to another airplane > you do give it more throttle. > > *From:* Matt Hoppes > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > So basically the way an airplane operates? > > On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking > test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the > target. Nobody had thought it through. > > More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. > > So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are > behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and > slow down... > > *From:* Bill Prince > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can > maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in > the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be > enough left in that to de-orbit. > > I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that > illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. > > The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone > of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until > they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just > outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking > station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation > is autonomous. > > > > bp > > > > On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a > specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. > Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is > more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does > this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water > or on land. > > > > Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top > of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. > > > > *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > > > > 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) > > 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) > > 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) > > 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) > > If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. > > > > bp > > > > > > On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > Just a reminder in case you forgot. > > > > > > > -- > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
GE Therac. That is used as an example in many programming classes. It is
legendary. Or at least it was when I was in college.
I happened when I was an undergrad.
As I recall, it was a race condition. The operators got so good that they were
entering key stroke sequences faster than the machine could process them. It
locked open an aperture that controlled the dose.
So folks got the max dose, even when the operator thought the machine was off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 3:55 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Exactly.
We are so used to software products where you can fail fast and learn without
killing people. I remember my college roommate went to work for a big X-ray
equipment company like GE or Siemens. They had a firmware bug where a
therapeutic (as opposed to diagnostic) X-ray system delivered something like 10
times the correct dose, and killed a patient. The manufacturer sent a team and
couldn’t find a defect, decided it must have been human error, until it killed
another patient. Oops, just a minor coding error.
From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
As long as they do that before people are on top.
On May 30, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10 (or so)
super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what went wrong.
bp On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew
up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come out
of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow
up lots of them,
Sent from my iPhone
On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com wrote:
Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up
again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like
“that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg
disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh
the humanity”.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So, my TSLA stock should be safe now...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can
maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that
illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone
of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until
they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside
the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The
crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same
guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this
sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on
land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on
top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Exactly. We are so used to software products where you can fail fast and learn without killing people. I remember my college roommate went to work for a big X-ray equipment company like GE or Siemens. They had a firmware bug where a therapeutic (as opposed to diagnostic) X-ray system delivered something like 10 times the correct dose, and killed a patient. The manufacturer sent a team and couldn’t find a defect, decided it must have been human error, until it killed another patient. Oops, just a minor coding error. From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:13 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try As long as they do that before people are on top. On May 30, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote: I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10 (or so) super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what went wrong. bp On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come out of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow up lots of them, Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> wrote: Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like “that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh the humanity”. From: AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I could imagine if there was someone that was just a natural at it they would get an email... On 05/30/2020 02:31 PM, Bill Prince wrote: Try out their docking simulator. https://iss-sim.spacex.com/ bp On 5/30/2020 12:42 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to another airplane you do give it more throttle. *From:* Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So basically the way an airplane operates? On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... *From:* Bill Prince *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
The word from the better observers was that this wasn't a failure of the rocket but of the piping system for loading/unloading the methane to the rocket. On 05/30/2020 01:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come out of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow up lots of them, Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like “that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh the humanity”. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... *From:*Bill Prince *Sent:*Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
All pioneered in the mind of Buzz Aldrin.. On 05/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock. If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... *From:* Bill Prince *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Try out their docking simulator.
https://iss-sim.spacex.com/
bp
On 5/30/2020 12:42 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:
Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to
another airplane you do give it more throttle.
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's
Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So basically the way an airplane operates?
On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM,
ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the
first NASA manned docking test, the guys would
give it some throttle and get farther away from
the target. Nobody had thought it through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit ==
slower orbital period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you
want to dock. If you are behind, you slow down
until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up
and slow down...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53
PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and
Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is
a window that they can maneuver within. It may
have to do with the amount of propellant carried
in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew
dragon. There also has to be enough left in that
to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on
the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the
various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that
there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around
the ISS. They need to target to outside that
zone until they make their final approach. Once
they are in a parallel orbit just outside the
exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver
into the docking station. The crew dragon (and
the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is
autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39
AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying
SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS,
sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy
said Boeing design will have a wider launch
window because it is more maneuverable.
Looking at photos they don’t seem that
different. Does this sound right? Main
difference seems to be the way they land, in
water or on land.
Not sure what happens to
Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on
top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of
Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25
PM
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
As long as they do that before people are on top. > On May 30, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > > > I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10 (or so) > super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what went wrong. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew >> up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come >> out of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of >> them, blow up lots of them, >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up >>> again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like >>> “that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg >>> disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of >>> “oh the humanity”. >>> >>> From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >>> >>> So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... >>> >>> From: Bill Prince >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM >>> To: af@af.afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >>> >>> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can >>> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in >>> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be >>> enough left in that to de-orbit. >>> >>> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that >>> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. >>> >>> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone >>> of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until >>> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just >>> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking >>> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation >>> is autonomous. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a >>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. >>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is >>> more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does >>> this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water >>> or on land. >>> >>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of >>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. >>> >>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM >>> To: af@af.afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >>> >>> >>> >>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) >>> >>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) >>> >>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) >>> >>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) >>> >>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> Just a reminder in case you forgot. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10
(or so) super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what
went wrong.
bp
On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown
wrote:
You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They
sn4 blew up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate
the changes that come out of this failure. Much quicker way to
develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow up lots of them,
Sent from my iPhone
On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket
program or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday.
I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like
“that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of
the Hindenburg disaster where the radio announcer says
“that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh the humanity”.
From: AF
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's
Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So, my TSLA
stock should be safe now...
From:
Bill Prince
Sent:
Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To:
af@af.afmug.com
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent
Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not
quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window
that they can maneuver within. It may have to do
with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon.
There also has to be enough left in that to
de-orbit.
I saw a
series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX
web site?) that illustrated all the various
maneuvers at the different stages.
The
approach to the ISS is interesting in that there
is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS.
They need to target to outside that zone until
they make their final approach. Once they are in a
parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone,
they can rotate and maneuver into the docking
station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is
that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On
5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy
on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to
be launched at a specific time to rendezvous
with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.
Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider
launch window because it is more maneuverable.
Looking at photos they don’t seem that
different. Does this sound right? Main
difference seems to be the way they land, in
water or on land.
Not
sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse
of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells
the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures. They sn4 blew up. Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come out of this failure. Much quicker way to develop rockets. Make lots of them, blow up lots of them, Sent from my iPhone > On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up > again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like > “that wasn’t nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg > disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of “oh > the humanity”. > > From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can > maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in > the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be > enough left in that to de-orbit. > > I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that > illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. > > The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of > sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they > make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the > exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The > crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific > time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy > said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more > maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this > sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on > land. > > Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of > 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. > > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > > > 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) > > 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) > > 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) > > 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) > > If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. > > > > bp > > > On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > Just a reminder in case you forgot. > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Starship MO seems to be build fast, fail fast, fix fast, test
fast. Rinse. Repeat.
bp
On 5/30/2020 12:57 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program
or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday. I saw a
video clip where the narrator said something like “that wasn’t
nominal”. I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg
disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal”
instead of “oh the humanity”.
From: AF
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent
Adventure - 2nd Try
So, my TSLA stock
should be safe now...
From:
Bill Prince
Sent:
Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To:
af@af.afmug.com
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent
Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not
quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that
they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the
amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached
to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be
enough left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a
series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web
site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at
the different stages.
The approach
to the ISS is interesting in that there is an
exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need
to target to outside that zone until they make their
final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just
outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and
maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon
(and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is
autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020
11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on
radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be
launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the
ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said
Boeing design will have a wider launch window
because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos
they don’t seem that different. Does this sound
right? Main difference seems to be the way they
land, in water or on land.
Not sure
what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air
travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of
Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's
Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT
(AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT
(AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT
(AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT
(AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're
not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp
On
5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:
Just a
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up again yesterday. I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like "that wasn't nominal". I'm imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg disaster where the radio announcer says "that wasn't nominal" instead of "oh the humanity". From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don't seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Right. But in an airplane throttle also makes you go up. In fact: Up/down is basically controlled by throttle While Speed is controlled by elevators. Slow down? Pull up Speed up? Push down Go up? Throttle up Go down? Throttle down > On May 30, 2020, at 3:43 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to another airplane you > do give it more throttle. > > From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > So basically the way an airplane operates? > >> On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> >> >> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking >> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the >> target. Nobody had thought it through. >> >> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. >> >> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are >> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and >> slow down... >> >> From: Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can >> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in >> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be >> enough left in that to de-orbit. >> >> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that >> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. >> >> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of >> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until >> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just >> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking >> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation >> is autonomous. >> >> >> >> bp >> >> >> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a >>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. >>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is >>> more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does >>> this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water >>> or on land. >>> >>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of >>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. >>> >>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM >>> To: af@af.afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >>> >>> >>> >>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) >>> >>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) >>> >>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) >>> >>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) >>> >>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> >>> >>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> Just a reminder in case you forgot. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So, my TSLA stock should be safe now... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Yes on the up and down. But if you want to catch up to another airplane you do
give it more throttle.
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So basically the way an airplane operates?
On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking
test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the
target. Nobody had thought it through.
More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period.
So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are
behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and
slow down...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can
maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the
"garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough
left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that
illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of
sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they
make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the
exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew
dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a
specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same
guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this
sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on
land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of
737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just a reminder in case you forgot.
--
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
So basically the way an airplane operates? > On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > > I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking > test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the > target. Nobody had thought it through. > > More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. > > So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are > behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and > slow down... > > From: Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try > > It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can > maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in > the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be > enough left in that to de-orbit. > > I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that > illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. > > The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of > sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they > make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the > exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The > crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. > > > > bp > > >> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific >> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy >> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more >> maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this >> sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on >> land. >> >> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of >> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. >> >> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try >> >> >> >> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) >> >> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) >> >> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) >> >> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) >> >> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. >> >> >> >> bp >> >> >> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> Just a reminder in case you forgot. >> >> >> >> >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the target. Nobody had thought it through. More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and slow down... From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit. I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages. The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous. bp On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that
they can maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of
propellant carried in the "garage" attached to the back of the
crew dragon. There also has to be enough left in that to de-orbit.
I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web
site?) that illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different
stages.
The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an
exclusion zone of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to
outside that zone until they make their final approach. Once they
are in a parallel orbit just outside the exclusion zone, they can
rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The crew dragon (and
the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule
has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the
ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing
design will have a wider launch window because it is more
maneuverable. Looking at photos they don’t seem that
different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to
be the way they land, in water or on land.
Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if
collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end
of Boeing as a company.
From: AF
On Behalf Of Bill
Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent
Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
bp
On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:
Just a reminder
in case you forgot.
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet. Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more maneuverable. Looking at photos they don't seem that different. Does this sound right? Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on land. Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM) 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM) 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM) 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM) If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do. bp On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
Just a reminder in case you forgot. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
