Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
Seems to be a secret at Cambium. From: AF On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 10:22 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? Conn. 450b is coming so you can add a 2ft dish too From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf of Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Date: Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 11:12 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? 450b SMs will also help uplink due to their higher xmt power. At the expense of 1-2 dB of antenna gain compared to a reflector dish, which could hurt downlink. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:59 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? Yes, uplink mumimo FTW! We see 4-8 db increase in rssi Gino Villarini Founder/President @gvillarini t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 m: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA> <http://www.aeronetpr.com> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 On 6/20/19, 9:35 AM, "AF on behalf of Matt" mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%20on%20behalf%20of%20matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote: > The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR incoming to the AP. We are looking at updating a 5ghz PMP450i 90 degree AP with a 450m based not so much on customer count but rather rereg count and noise. I assume the 450m will help in that department as well? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
Conn. 450b is coming so you can add a 2ft dish too From: AF on behalf of Ken Hohhof Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Date: Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 11:12 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? 450b SMs will also help uplink due to their higher xmt power. At the expense of 1-2 dB of antenna gain compared to a reflector dish, which could hurt downlink. From: AF On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:59 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? Yes, uplink mumimo FTW! We see 4-8 db increase in rssi Gino Villarini Founder/President @gvillarini t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 m: [Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]<http://www.aeronetpr.com/> [Image removed by sender. inc500]<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> [Image removed by sender. fb-logo]<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> [Image removed by sender. insta-logo]<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> [Image removed by sender. in-logo]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> [Image removed by sender. tw-logo]<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> [Image removed by sender. yt-logo]<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA> www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 On 6/20/19, 9:35 AM, "AF on behalf of Matt" mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%20on%20behalf%20of%20matt.mailingli...@gmail.com>> wrote: > The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR incoming to the AP. We are looking at updating a 5ghz PMP450i 90 degree AP with a 450m based not so much on customer count but rather rereg count and noise. I assume the 450m will help in that department as well? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
450b SMs will also help uplink due to their higher xmt power. At the expense of 1-2 dB of antenna gain compared to a reflector dish, which could hurt downlink. From: AF On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:59 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? Yes, uplink mumimo FTW! We see 4-8 db increase in rssi Gino Villarini Founder/President @gvillarini t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 m: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr %5Eauthor> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA> <http://www.aeronetpr.com> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 On 6/20/19, 9:35 AM, "AF on behalf of Matt" mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%20on%20behalf%20of%20matt.mailinglists@gmail .com> > wrote: > The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR incoming to the AP. We are looking at updating a 5ghz PMP450i 90 degree AP with a 450m based not so much on customer count but rather rereg count and noise. I assume the 450m will help in that department as well? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
Yes, uplink mumimo FTW! We see 4-8 db increase in rssi Gino Villarini Founder/President@gvillarinit: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 m: www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 On 6/20/19, 9:35 AM, "AF on behalf of Matt" wrote: > The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR incoming to the AP. We are looking at updating a 5ghz PMP450i 90 degree AP with a 450m based not so much on customer count but rather rereg count and noise. I assume the 450m will help in that department as well? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
> The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR > incoming to the AP. We are looking at updating a 5ghz PMP450i 90 degree AP with a 450m based not so much on customer count but rather rereg count and noise. I assume the 450m will help in that department as well? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
The biggest win in the 450M department is the vast improvement in the SNR incoming to the AP. bp On 6/19/2019 1:06 PM, dave wrote: I think cust density is important here. A 450i will even get more subs than epmp ever thought due to protocol restrictions,processor and memory capacity. A 450m is great if you have 60+ subs on one AP. On 6/19/19 11:23 AM, Josh Baird wrote: We have a site that has 3-4 fairly loaded ePMP 2K sectors (30 deg horns). There are a large number of customers in a single 90 degrees. While we could probably upgrade to ePMP 3K to get a bit of a boost, there is still a cost associated in replacing all the CPE to get the full benefit. At this point, we're trying to determine if something like 450M makes sense for this 90 degrees of coverage. The cost is obviously much higher, but I think it may be a better solution in the long run. If we could find a spare 20Mhz, we could run both our existing ePMP radios and the 450M at the same time while we cut subscribers over. Are there other people here who have been in similar situations and have deployed 450M? I realize the performance of the 450M is dependent upon CPE locations, but overall, were you happy with the boost in performance in general? I feel like most people who have upgraded to 450M were already running 450, so you didn't really have to forklift all CPE. If that were the case, I think it would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing any success (or failure) stories about people who have upgraded to 450M... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
I think cust density is important here. A 450i will even get more subs than epmp ever thought due to protocol restrictions,processor and memory capacity. A 450m is great if you have 60+ subs on one AP. On 6/19/19 11:23 AM, Josh Baird wrote: We have a site that has 3-4 fairly loaded ePMP 2K sectors (30 deg horns). There are a large number of customers in a single 90 degrees. While we could probably upgrade to ePMP 3K to get a bit of a boost, there is still a cost associated in replacing all the CPE to get the full benefit. At this point, we're trying to determine if something like 450M makes sense for this 90 degrees of coverage. The cost is obviously much higher, but I think it may be a better solution in the long run. If we could find a spare 20Mhz, we could run both our existing ePMP radios and the 450M at the same time while we cut subscribers over. Are there other people here who have been in similar situations and have deployed 450M? I realize the performance of the 450M is dependent upon CPE locations, but overall, were you happy with the boost in performance in general? I feel like most people who have upgraded to 450M were already running 450, so you didn't really have to forklift all CPE. If that were the case, I think it would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing any success (or failure) stories about people who have upgraded to 450M... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
Cambium doesn’t give you much choice: 450b mid or high gain. Yes there’s a 450i SM but it’s hideously expensive, needs 48V POE, and comes only in connectorized or an integrated panel that doesn’t have enough gain. The 450 and 450d SMs are discontinued, unless you’re shopping the used market. I assume you’re talking about 5 GHz. In 3.65 the SM options are different. From: AF On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:47 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? 100-120 customers or so in the 90deg. For the most part, customers are decent, but some would need to be re-aligned most likely could probably find 40Mhz if needed. What is your go-to SM for 450M now? On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:44 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: How many is a large number? You’ll probably gain more with 50 or 100 subs than you will with 10. And would you be switching over good, high modulation customers? My observation is get all your subs to 6X or 8X before putting them on a 450m. Also, hard to prove, but I think the antenna gain might be flatter across the 90 degrees with a 450m than with a traditional sector. You lose something like 2 dB, but in the center, not at the edges. I don’t have precise data to substantiate that though. Any chance you could find 40 MHz of spectrum for the 450m? From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:24 AM To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? We have a site that has 3-4 fairly loaded ePMP 2K sectors (30 deg horns). There are a large number of customers in a single 90 degrees. While we could probably upgrade to ePMP 3K to get a bit of a boost, there is still a cost associated in replacing all the CPE to get the full benefit. At this point, we're trying to determine if something like 450M makes sense for this 90 degrees of coverage. The cost is obviously much higher, but I think it may be a better solution in the long run. If we could find a spare 20Mhz, we could run both our existing ePMP radios and the 450M at the same time while we cut subscribers over. Are there other people here who have been in similar situations and have deployed 450M? I realize the performance of the 450M is dependent upon CPE locations, but overall, were you happy with the boost in performance in general? I feel like most people who have upgraded to 450M were already running 450, so you didn't really have to forklift all CPE. If that were the case, I think it would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing any success (or failure) stories about people who have upgraded to 450M... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
100-120 customers or so in the 90deg. For the most part, customers are decent, but some would need to be re-aligned most likely could probably find 40Mhz if needed. What is your go-to SM for 450M now? On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:44 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > How many is a large number? You’ll probably gain more with 50 or 100 subs > than you will with 10. > > > > And would you be switching over good, high modulation customers? My > observation is get all your subs to 6X or 8X before putting them on a > 450m. Also, hard to prove, but I think the antenna gain might be flatter > across the 90 degrees with a 450m than with a traditional sector. You lose > something like 2 dB, but in the center, not at the edges. I don’t have > precise data to substantiate that though. > > > > Any chance you could find 40 MHz of spectrum for the 450m? > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:24 AM > *To:* AFMUG > *Subject:* [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? > > > > We have a site that has 3-4 fairly loaded ePMP 2K sectors (30 deg horns). > There are a large number of customers in a single 90 degrees. While we > could probably upgrade to ePMP 3K to get a bit of a boost, there is still a > cost associated in replacing all the CPE to get the full benefit. > > > > At this point, we're trying to determine if something like 450M makes > sense for this 90 degrees of coverage. The cost is obviously much higher, > but I think it may be a better solution in the long run. If we could find a > spare 20Mhz, we could run both our existing ePMP radios and the 450M at the > same time while we cut subscribers over. > > > > Are there other people here who have been in similar situations and have > deployed 450M? I realize the performance of the 450M is dependent upon CPE > locations, but overall, were you happy with the boost in performance in > general? I feel like most people who have upgraded to 450M were already > running 450, so you didn't really have to forklift all CPE. If that were > the case, I think it would be a no-brainer. > > > > Interested in hearing any success (or failure) stories about people who > have upgraded to 450M... > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M?
How many is a large number? You’ll probably gain more with 50 or 100 subs than you will with 10. And would you be switching over good, high modulation customers? My observation is get all your subs to 6X or 8X before putting them on a 450m. Also, hard to prove, but I think the antenna gain might be flatter across the 90 degrees with a 450m than with a traditional sector. You lose something like 2 dB, but in the center, not at the edges. I don’t have precise data to substantiate that though. Any chance you could find 40 MHz of spectrum for the 450m? From: AF On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:24 AM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] When to consider 450M? We have a site that has 3-4 fairly loaded ePMP 2K sectors (30 deg horns). There are a large number of customers in a single 90 degrees. While we could probably upgrade to ePMP 3K to get a bit of a boost, there is still a cost associated in replacing all the CPE to get the full benefit. At this point, we're trying to determine if something like 450M makes sense for this 90 degrees of coverage. The cost is obviously much higher, but I think it may be a better solution in the long run. If we could find a spare 20Mhz, we could run both our existing ePMP radios and the 450M at the same time while we cut subscribers over. Are there other people here who have been in similar situations and have deployed 450M? I realize the performance of the 450M is dependent upon CPE locations, but overall, were you happy with the boost in performance in general? I feel like most people who have upgraded to 450M were already running 450, so you didn't really have to forklift all CPE. If that were the case, I think it would be a no-brainer. Interested in hearing any success (or failure) stories about people who have upgraded to 450M... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
